Valiant Beyond to be an Absolute Ultimate Valiant Universe Rebirth

[The Chosen 1]

Is this the point where we try to work out how the Q & W Goat fits into all this?

[ManofTheAtom]

Is this the point where we try to work out how the Q & W Goat fits into all this?

Which one? For all we know, the VH 2 version that ate VH 2 Ivar's map will be the one that transports his entire universe to VEI. Then we'll have two goats, one male and one female.

[ManofTheAtom]

In quantum mechanics, "two or more identical fermions (particles with half-integer spin) cannot occupy the same quantum state within a quantum system simultaneously."

I.e., identical objects (or people) cannot occupy the same space.

Now think of what happens when you try to copy the same file into the same folder in your computer. The system asks you if you want to replace the file (in which case the new version replaces the old, though it does it not by destroying the original but by seemingly merging with it), or copy it as a separate file (in which case the systems assign a number in parenthesis to the new file to distinguish it from the first).

Imagine that applied to VALIANT when it comes to the multiple versions of the same character.

If (when?) the universes merged, would it be preferable for the VH 1, VH 2, and VEI versions of the same characters to coexist the way the two files do (one with a number inside a parenthesis and the other without it, as it were), or for them to merge (the way the files seemly do when copied into the same folder)?

[Chiclo]

You cite the big crunch in the same thread where you were critical of outdated science in Gold Key comics.

In the proposed scenario in which alternate universes are created by syphoning energy from the finite source that makes up the universe, the big crunch would be real.

In real life the universe is continually expanding, but in a fictional scenario in which energy is drained whenever a new universe is created, it would instead contract.

Now, what does the fact that in real life the universe is expanding tell us about the likelihood of alternate realities given that energy cannot be created to sustain them?

Yes, in a scenario where divergent universes involves splitting a common pool of energy (but duplicating matter? I heard they were the same?), and assuming that the energy being split includes whatever it is that causes the universe to expand, that would lead to a big crunch. (This is where Riker says "It's just like letting the air out of a balloon.") There is a lot of discussion about what really makes the universe expand. Scientists cannot even reconcile models to agree on how fast the universe is expanding, called the Hubble Tension, much less conclusively determine what is making that happen. Even the sheer inertia of all the stars and planets would want to keep going outwards; grabity alone cannot grab it all back. You need something else, some tinkered with Cosmological Constant or some kind of Spirit of the Abyss a la Andromeda.

Is there some indication that these parallel universes have to be divergent? If these parallel universes were created alongside one another, they would have no need to split common pools of energy or matter. Following that same contortion of the first law of thermodynamics, would combining these universes overload the energy in the resultant universe?

Ok, here is my real problem. Most times a multiverse has been presented, like in Parallels or What If or even those thrice condemned Star Trek movies from 2009, these parallel alternate universes are alternate timelines where some kind of history played out differently. This involves a duplication of both matter and energy through some weird, sci-fi trope of Schrodinger's cat and both matter and energy within that universe do some weird quantum split and are more or less twinned, each continuing with the same total of matter and energy (which I heard are interchangeable) as the parent universe. This is from quantum superposition and is not bound by laws of conservation of energy, or conservation of mass-energy. Universe splitting is all fiction and no science but if instead of doing some kind of quantum thing, not going with an alternate timeline explanation like Parallels, if you were to just split the universe like from one bubble into two (what I had called mitosis previously), then yes, all the energy in the two universes would have to come from a division of the energy in the parent universe. So would the matter. The Earth (and one would hope all its inhabitants) would be in one or the other universe and you would not get two (or more) parallel Earths with two parallel sets (or more) of heroes - unless those parallel Earths already existed in the one universe.

In other threads, you rely so heavily on insisting that matter and energy are interchangeable and here, you fail to acknowledge that interchangeability or your simple focus on having to split the energy has led to your not communicating well that the matter must split too in this case.

MotA, are you talking about universal splitting through mitosis or through quantum superposition? Because only one of those would be bound by the first law of thermodynamics.

[ManofTheAtom]

Yes, in a scenario where divergent universes involves splitting a common pool of energy (but duplicating matter? I heard they were the same?), and assuming that the energy being split includes whatever it is that causes the universe to expand, that would lead to a big crunch. (This is where Riker says "It's just like letting the air out of a balloon.") There is a lot of discussion about what really makes the universe expand. Scientists cannot even reconcile models to agree on how fast the universe is expanding, called the Hubble Tension, much less conclusively determine what is making that happen. Even the sheer inertia of all the stars and planets would want to keep going outwards; gravity alone cannot grab it all back. You need something else, some tinkered with Cosmological Constant or some kind of Spirit of the Abyss a la Andromeda.

Since we're feely citing examples from science fiction TV series, Stargate SG-1 used stellar drift as part of its plotting to explain how the gate operates and that series was the kind that hired science consultants and the like. Stellar drift would be indicative of an expanding universe.

Is there some indication that these parallel universes have to be divergent? If these parallel universes were created alongside one another, they would have no need to split common pools of energy or matter. Following that same contortion of the first law of thermodynamics, would combining these universes overload the energy in the resultant universe?

Well, the suggestion/argument that the Big Bang created all the universes in the multiverse simultaneously would contradict the argument that every decision we make creates a new universe (like in TNG's Parallels), would it not? We'd end up back with the original problem of lack of energy to sustain new universes.

The universe does not have a "cache" where it stores unused energy.

That said, I'd posit the hypothesis (which smarter people than me may have voiced before) that since energy cannot be destroyed that when a star goes supernova and explodes that releases its energy back into the universe, where it is then repurposed to create a new star, or a new planet, or a new galaxy -- or maybe, even, a new universe.

Maybe supernovas are the universe's way of recycling its finite energy supply.

Problem here is that for that energy to be used to create an entirely NEW universe (no pun...) then ALL the stars in THIS universe would need to explode for their energy to be converted into a different reality, would they not?

How many supernovas exploding would it take to create a new universe?

Ok, here is my real problem. Most times a multiverse has been presented, like in Parallels or What If or even those thrice condemned Star Trek movies from 2009, these parallel alternate universes are alternate timelines where some kind of history played out differently. This involves a duplication of both matter and energy through some weird, sci-fi trope of Schrodinger's cat and both matter and energy within that universe do some weird quantum split and are more or less twinned, each continuing with the same total of matter and energy (which I heard are interchangeable) as the parent universe. This is from quantum superposition and is not bound by laws of conservation of energy, or conservation of mass-energy. Universe splitting is all fiction and no science but if instead of doing some kind of quantum thing, not going with an alternate timeline explanation like Parallels, if you were to just split the universe like from one bubble into two (what I had called mitosis previously), then yes, all the energy in the two universes would have to come from a division of the energy in the parent universe. So would the matter. The Earth (and one would hope all its inhabitants) would be in one or the other universe and you would not get two (or more) parallel Earths with two parallel sets (or more) of heroes - unless those parallel Earths already existed in the one universe.

Let us look at a different episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation, the one in which Beverly Crusher is trapped in a quantum bubble Wesley created.

Within that buble, she was the ONLY actual living being (i.e, the only one made of matter), while everything else (the Enterprise, the people, even the universe) were made of energy that was transformed into matter (she could touch things, feel them, hear them, etc).

As the bubble collapsed and its energy dwindled, people began disappearing in order to sustain the bubble itself. Not only did they disappear, but it was as if they never existed. First it was the people, then it was the universe, then the galaxy, then the solar system, and, finally, the ship.

Think of what I'm suggesting for VALIANT as a cross of both episodes of TNG we've been citing, Parallels and this other one. The latter of which would cover the question of duplication, i.e. energy can indeed duplicate existing matter, even people.

Furthermore, that episode is a perfect example of my core argument; think of VH-1 AS Wesley's quantum bubble, getting smaller and smaller as new universes are created and drain it of energy.

In other threads, you rely so heavily on insisting that matter and energy are interchangeable and here, you fail to acknowledge that interchangeability or your simple focus on having to split the energy has led to your not communicating well that the matter must split too in this case.

MotA, are you talking about universal splitting through mitosis or through quantum superposition? Because only one of those would be bound by the first law of thermodynamics.

Well, you brought up mitosis.

I bind myself by whichever of the two is bound to the first law.

[ManofTheAtom]

Sorry, it was a WARP bubble, not a QUANTUM bubble.

[Chiclo]

Stellar drift is evidence of stellar drift. Universal expansion could be part of that but not necessarily.

If multiple universes were created parallel to one another by a single big bang, then whatever energy you are talking about had already been divided. It is history. This would be a different explanation for the origin of parallel universes than the Parallels, quantum superposition type multiverse, yes. That would also make the Valiant multiverse trivially different than the Marvel multiverse (I am less familiar with whatever explanation DC has for the origin/re-emergence of their multiverse from several years ago). I think this is more like the multiverse of the One.

Supernovae are how the old-Earth, standard model explains the creation of atoms heavier than Helium and its dispersement across the universe. Energy moves much easier than needing a supernova. Releasing energy into the universe is literally how stars work. Radios, lights, even farts release energy back into the universe.

Creating a new universe. There’s a question with nothing but pure speculation. It depends on what is the substance of the multiverse; what is between the universes? I think the current best guess is quantum foam and creating a universe is just starting a new bubble in that foam. This likely would not require something so grand as a trillion trillion supernovae, likely something a mad scientist could pull off in a well stocked lab. If it is a real thing. Brings to mind an early (first season?) DS9 episode. The Beverly TNG episode might fit this model too - was the warp bubble collapsing because of a loss of energy? Or was it just unstable and the bubble was collapsing?

Were I to write a story about a scientist trying to start a universe bubble in the quantum foam, his primary concern would be trying to figure out how to set the universal constants close enough that matter (much less life) from this universe could stably exist in the new one. Universal mechanics? Potentially balancing constants (assuming they are constant) like the speed of light, mass and charge of electrons, plank’s constant and length, coulomb’s constant, three unfolded spatial dimensions, et cetera, et cetera.

If you are binding this scenario by the first law of thermodynamics then you lose the parallel universe counterparts of the heroes. You don’t get both.

Are you familiar with Zero Point Energy? It was a theory a while back and picked up a little bit in fiction but I think even within fiction it has fallen out of favor. It fits well with your idea of a limited supply of energy fueling universal expansion. And there is zero reason to demand that this theory explain whatever limitations the tension requires from the story.

[ManofTheAtom]

Stellar drift is evidence of stellar drift. Universal expansion could be part of that but not necessarily.

If multiple universes were created parallel to one another by a single big bang, then whatever energy you are talking about had already been divided. It is history. This would be a different explanation for the origin of parallel universes than the Parallels, quantum superposition type multiverse, yes. That would also make the Valiant multiverse trivially different than the Marvel multiverse (I am less familiar with whatever explanation DC has for the origin/re-emergence of their multiverse from several years ago). I think this is more like the multiverse of the One.

Supernovae are how the old-Earth, standard model explains the creation of atoms heavier than Helium and its dispersement across the universe. Energy moves much easier than needing a supernova. Releasing energy into the universe is literally how stars work. Radios, lights, even farts release energy back into the universe.

Creating a new universe. There’s a question with nothing but pure speculation. It depends on what is the substance of the multiverse; what is between the universes? I think the current best guess is quantum foam and creating a universe is just starting a new bubble in that foam. This likely would not require something so grand as a trillion trillion supernovae, likely something a mad scientist could pull off in a well stocked lab. If it is a real thing. Brings to mind an early (first season?) DS9 episode. The Beverly TNG episode might fit this model too - was the warp bubble collapsing because of a loss of energy? Or was it just unstable and the bubble was collapsing?

Were I to write a story about a scientist trying to start a universe bubble in the quantum foam, his primary concern would be trying to figure out how to set the universal constants close enough that matter (much less life) from this universe could stably exist in the new one. Universal mechanics? Potentially balancing constants (assuming they are constant) like the speed of light, mass and charge of electrons, plank’s constant and length, coulomb’s constant, three unfolded spatial dimensions, et cetera, et cetera.

If you are binding this scenario by the first law of thermodynamics then you lose the parallel universe counterparts of the heroes. You don’t get both.

Are you familiar with Zero Point Energy? It was a theory a while back and picked up a little bit in fiction but I think even within fiction it has fallen out of favor. It fits well with your idea of a limited supply of energy fueling universal expansion. And there is zero reason to demand that this theory explain whatever limitations the tension requires from the story.

ZPE was part of Stargate Atlantis. It is how the Ancients powered the city. So I know of it from there.

I believe the bubble was unstable and that is why it collapsed.

Within the fictional narrative of the VALIANT Universe, Doctor Solar, Solar the Destroyer, and Solar the Explorer embodied both the argument of mitosis (which is what happened to Solar when he divided into them) as well as the First Law of Thermodynamics (because when they split from Solar they depleted his energy).

I'm suggesting that but on a universal scale.

When Phil, and, later, Solar, had a schizophrenic attack, that resulted in him expelling a part of himself (first Doctor Solar in Second Death, then the Destroyer in the three part arc, and then the Explorer in Rai #0/Deathmate).

The proposal here would be that, for instance, when Aric used the Cosmic Cube to give himself the X-O Manowar armor he not only traveled back in time but the cube also caused the universe to split into two realities.

Let us not forget that in the Marvel Universe going back in time does NOT change history (i.e., when Ben Grimm went back in time to cure himself from being the Thing he didn't change his past, he created a new reality), it creates a new universe.

Ergo, when Aric did the same thing to give himself the armor that is what he did. Unlike Ben, who returned to his present, Aric chose to stay in the past of what became a new universe.

That would be the mitosis part of the equation. The second part of the equation. the first law of thermodynamics, would be that given that the supply of energy in the universe is finite since the only energy available is what was released during the Big Bang that when Aric created this universe -- VH 2 -- he depleted the energy that makes up the original VALIANT Universe, the same way that when Phil split into Doctor Solar and Solar split into the Destroyer and the Explorer depleted him.

Ultimately, what we have here is a theory is that is half Marvel (changing the past creates new universes, it doesn't change history) and half VALIANT (energy cannot be created, it can only be changed, i.e., from Phil Seleski into Doctor Solar and from Solar into the Destroyer and the Explorer).

[ManofTheAtom]

What we are ultimately trying to do is integrate the world building rules of two disparate comic book universes, Marvel and VALIANT.

One states that altering the past -- like Ben and Aric did -- creates new universes.

That would fit the mitosis argument, since each new universe contains duplicates of all the people that exist in the universe (i.e., the universe Ben created has a duplicate of him who he cured from being the Thing, as well as duplicates of everyone else on Earth and other planets in the universe. Likewise, the universe Aric created -- VH 2 -- would contain duplicates of everyone else on Earth and other planets in the universe, but not himself since he opted to stay there).

The other states that everything in the universe is made of energy, and that matter and energy are interchangeable ("it's all in how you move it").

Since in that universe energy and matter are the same, when a living organism that is made of either divides into two or more pieces (like it happened to Phil Seleski and Solar, two energy beings) that depletes them of the energy that makes up their whole, if that makes sense. That would fit the first law of thermodynamics.

[Chiclo]

Within the fictional narrative of the VALIANT Universe, Doctor Solar, Solar the Destroyer, and Solar the Explorer embodied both the argument of mitosis (which is what happened to Solar when he divided into them) as well as the First Law of Thermodynamics (because when they split from Solar they depleted his energy).

I'm suggesting that but on a universal scale.

This is the mitosis bit. You get being bound by the laws of thermodynamics but not alternate versions of your heroes. One universe with one Earth splits into two universes, one but not both of which have an Earth and its heroes.

The proposal here would be that, for instance, when Aric used the Cosmic Cube to give himself the X-O Manowar armor he not only traveled back in time but the cube also caused the universe to split into two realities.

Let us not forget that in the Marvel Universe going back in time does NOT change history (i.e., when Ben Grimm went back in time to cure himself from being the Thing he didn't change his past, he created a new reality), it creates a new universe.

And this is quantum superposition, alternate timelines. This is where you get multiple Earths and parallel universe counterparts to the heroes but the act of splitting the universes is not bound by the laws of thermodynamics because it is a quantum thing rather than a macroscopic one. Schrodinger's cat does not get sleepy because it just had to share its energy with a second, now dead cat.

You are demanding it both ways. Metrics and Imperial units, living side by side. That is just not how it works. Multiverses probably aren't a thing for no reason of limitations of the laws of thermodynamics - any of them.

[Chiclo]

What we are ultimately trying to do is integrate the world building rules of two disparate comic book universes, Marvel and VALIANT.

One states that altering the past -- like Ben and Aric did -- creates new universes.

That would fit the mitosis argument, since each new universe contains duplicates of all the people that exist in the universe (i.e., the universe Ben created has a duplicate of him who he cured from being the Thing, as well as duplicates of everyone else on Earth and other planets in the universe. Likewise, the universe Aric created -- VH 2 -- would contain duplicates of everyone else on Earth and other planets in the universe, but not himself since he opted to stay there).

The other states that everything in the universe is made of energy, and that matter and energy are interchangeable ("it's all in how you move it").

Since in that universe energy and matter are the same, when a living organism that is made of either divides into two or more pieces (like it happened to Phil Seleski and Solar, two energy beings) that depletes them of the energy that makes up their whole, if that makes sense. That would fit the first law of thermodynamics.

Where is the contradiction? Matter can be converted to energy even in these alternate timeline parallel universes. That is how stars work.

Unless stars work by magic in the Valiant universe? You might be on to something there, MotA.

[ManofTheAtom]

Within the fictional narrative of the VALIANT Universe, Doctor Solar, Solar the Destroyer, and Solar the Explorer embodied both the argument of mitosis (which is what happened to Solar when he divided into them) as well as the First Law of Thermodynamics (because when they split from Solar they depleted his energy).

I'm suggesting that but on a universal scale.

This is the mitosis bit. You get being bound by the laws of thermodynamics but not alternate versions of your heroes. One universe with one Earth splits into two universes, one but not both of which have an Earth and its heroes.

The proposal here would be that, for instance, when Aric used the Cosmic Cube to give himself the X-O Manowar armor he not only traveled back in time but the cube also caused the universe to split into two realities.

Let us not forget that in the Marvel Universe going back in time does NOT change history (i.e., when Ben Grimm went back in time to cure himself from being the Thing he didn't change his past, he created a new reality), it creates a new universe.

And this is quantum superposition, alternate timelines. This is where you get multiple Earths and parallel universe counterparts to the heroes but the act of splitting the universes is not bound by the laws of thermodynamics because it is a quantum thing rather than a macroscopic one. Schrodinger's cat does not get sleepy because it just had to share its energy with a second, now dead cat.

You are demanding it both ways. Metrics and Imperial units, living side by side. That is just not how it works. Multiverses probably aren't a thing for no reason of limitations of the laws of thermodynamics - any of them.

Well, the Marvel half of the equation includes both mitosis (new universes are created when history is changed) AND quantum superposition (those new universes contain duplicates of everything in the universe).

The main reason we're trapped in this argument is because of these Marvel rules of world building that Nicieza brought over to VALIANT.

When Phil Seleski went back in time and prevented the Edgewater meltdown in Second Death he changed the matter state of the universe from one energy state (the events of Alpha & Omega) to another (the events of the VALIANT Universe that followed Solar Man of The Atom #1).

When Aric Dacia went back in time to give himself the X-O Manowar armor in 408 AD using the Cosmic Cube he fractured what was a single universe into two (VH 1 and VH 2).

If we don't apply the first law of thermodynamics that is part of the fundamental nature of the VALIANT Universe's rules of world building to the equation by including the argument that when Aric split the universe he also depleted its finite energy source the same way it happened to Solar when he split into Doctor Solar, the Destroyer, and the Explorer, then we're left with the Marvel rules of world building.

[ManofTheAtom]

What we are ultimately trying to do is integrate the world building rules of two disparate comic book universes, Marvel and VALIANT.

One states that altering the past -- like Ben and Aric did -- creates new universes.

That would fit the mitosis argument, since each new universe contains duplicates of all the people that exist in the universe (i.e., the universe Ben created has a duplicate of him who he cured from being the Thing, as well as duplicates of everyone else on Earth and other planets in the universe. Likewise, the universe Aric created -- VH 2 -- would contain duplicates of everyone else on Earth and other planets in the universe, but not himself since he opted to stay there).

The other states that everything in the universe is made of energy, and that matter and energy are interchangeable ("it's all in how you move it").

Since in that universe energy and matter are the same, when a living organism that is made of either divides into two or more pieces (like it happened to Phil Seleski and Solar, two energy beings) that depletes them of the energy that makes up their whole, if that makes sense. That would fit the first law of thermodynamics.

Where is the contradiction? Matter can be converted to energy even in these alternate timeline parallel universes. That is how stars work.

Unless stars work by magic in the Valiant universe? You might be on to something there, MotA.

When Ben and Aric went back in time they created new realities. When Phil Seleski did it, he did not. That would be the contradiction.

Ben and Aric did it using the rules of world building of the Marvel Universe (and, in the case of the latter, he did it using a tool from the Marvel Universe) while Phil did it using the rules of world building of the VALIANT Universe.

[ManofTheAtom]

Mulling it over, it does occur to me that mitosis would not account for duplicates of people because, among other things, the VH 2 versions would, in many instances, be younger than their VH 1 counterparts.

If, for instance, VH 1 Faith is 15 in 1991 she would have been born in 1976 while if VH 2 Faith is 15 in 1998 she would have been born in 1983.

What that tells us is that while mitosis could be used to explain the universe dividing in two or more replicas we are lacking another explanation for the birth of the alternates themselves.

[ManofTheAtom]

Two facts about VH-1.

Fact One, everything in the universe is energy, including matter.

Fact Two, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

When discerning how a multiverse can work within the framework of the original VALIANT Universe mitosis and quantum superposition are valid starting points for explaining how the universe as a whole can split into multiple replicas while still abiding by the first law of thermodynamics.

Explaining how replicas of the same person can be born at different times in different universes may require a metaphysical explanation that adheres to Clark's third law.

[ManofTheAtom]

Does the human soul exist in the original VALIANT Universe?

Was its existence ever alluded to or directly referred to in Shadowman before Unity?

We know from Doctor Mirage that it does indeed exist in the form of necromantic energy.

What does this tell us in regard to the overall conversation?

In short, mitosis of the soul.

When new universes are created by separating the energy of the universe into one or more realities, the same happens to the souls of those that inhabit it.

Wasn't the question of what happened to Gayle in VH 2 part of the plot of Revelations? I'd have to check.

If so, arguably, she -- or, rather, a piece of her soul -- was reborn into someone other than a "VH-2 Gayle", which would have made it more difficult for Phil to find her.

[The Chosen 1]

I think i'm having an aneurism reading all the aboveopwjg vpajbnmnkvn bj;jbn;jkm/,mx;,323ypi

[Chiclo]

Mulling it over, it does occur to me that mitosis would not account for duplicates of people because, among other things, the VH 2 versions would, in many instances, be younger than their VH 1 counterparts.

If, for instance, VH 1 Faith is 15 in 1991 she would have been born in 1976 while if VH 2 Faith is 15 in 1998 she would have been born in 1983.

What that tells us is that while mitosis could be used to explain the universe dividing in two or more replicas we are lacking another explanation for the birth of the alternates themselves.

Universes need not be so rigidly bound to one another’s chronology.

Crossing between universes, there is no need for the time to sync up in those universes. A future in a parallel universe may invade the present or past of another universe to guide or meddle in affairs.

Another explanation could be that the parallel universes were always there. Their origins do not depend on one another, no universe branches off another. Their timelines evolved similarly but differently. No need to conserve energy.

[ManofTheAtom]

I think i'm having an aneurism reading all the aboveopwjg vpajbnmnkvn bj;jbn;jkm/,mx;,323ypi

[ManofTheAtom]

Mulling it over, it does occur to me that mitosis would not account for duplicates of people because, among other things, the VH 2 versions would, in many instances, be younger than their VH 1 counterparts.

If, for instance, VH 1 Faith is 15 in 1991 she would have been born in 1976 while if VH 2 Faith is 15 in 1998 she would have been born in 1983.

What that tells us is that while mitosis could be used to explain the universe dividing in two or more replicas we are lacking another explanation for the birth of the alternates themselves.

Universes need not be so rigidly bound to one another’s chronology.

Crossing between universes, there is no need for the time to sync up in those universes. A future in a parallel universe may invade the present or past of another universe to guide or meddle in affairs.

Another explanation could be that the parallel universes were always there. Their origins do not depend on one another, no universe branches off another. Their timelines evolved similarly but differently. No need to conserve energy.

Except that we know VH 2 did not exist until after Aric created it using the Cosmic Cube.

[leonmallett]

The nonsensical claims that 'VH1 was based on hard science' aside (psychic powers, immortality, power armour, and death energy etc. refute anything hard about the science - it was fantasy science), I am not really sure how they will square the circle of 'everything is canon' without either having an established multiverse or having a messy not-quite-figured-out yet amalgam as DC did post-CoIE and in the New 52.

[ManofTheAtom]

The nonsensical claims that 'VH1 was based on hard science' aside (psychic powers, immortality, power armour, and death energy etc. refute anything hard about the science - it was fantasy science), I am not really sure how they will square the circle of 'everything is canon' without either having an established multiverse or having a messy not-quite-figured-out yet amalgam as DC did post-CoIE and in the New 52.

Science fiction.

Yeah, it'll probably be one of the two.

[ManofTheAtom]

27 years in the making, but if VALIANT indeed goes the multiverse route we may finally see this VALIANT Voyeur (VH-1 Ninjak vs VH-2 Ninjak) come true.

ninjak.jpg