Valiant Beyond to be an Absolute Ultimate Valiant Universe Rebirth

[ManofTheAtom]

• Valiant Beyond set to redefine the universe with an Absolute/Ultimate style line-wide relaunch in March 2025.

• Artists are reimagining iconic heroes for the new Valiant Beyond line while honoring past continuity.

• This relaunch will embrace Valiant's multiverse, merging eras like Shooterverse, Acclaimverse and Dineshverse.

• Old and new fans can expect nostalgic elements with fresh twists, promising to "change everything."

Valiant Beyond is to be the Absolute Ultimate Valiant Universe Crisis Rebirth for March 2025

[Ryan]

Cool. It's about time they embraced all of their history. We'll see how it actually turns out, but it seems like a step in the right direction

[Chiclo]

Ok, stick with me here, what if we make Ninjak a video game character who can like jump into the real world by possessing the gamer kid who plays his game. But his game was for something that is outmoded by several generations but not yet nostalgiac? Or maybe vanishingly rare like a Turbo Grafix 16? And his villains are more advanced, coming out of a Playstation 3 or whatever. Maybe - MAYBE - bring in BetaMax, the cyborg who is less advanced than his own phone.

I do have a good idea for a BetaMax story where he is struggling with his own obselescence.

[Ryan]

Personally I would prefer a full revival of Vh1 (or Shooterverse as they're calling it) that runs separately from the reboot universe. But it's at least a good step that they're finally acknowledging the multiverse and going to do something with it.

It might be a mess (like U2K), but who knows? It'll at least be more fun (to me) than continuing to keep do more relaunches of the VEI versions.

[ManofTheAtom]

We'll see what happens.

[TheFerg714]

I've always said that I'd prefer to stick to the 2012+ continuity, but honestly, Valiant/Alien has to do something to stand out. This seems like it could be fun.

[ManofTheAtom]

"This relaunch will embrace Valiant's multiverse, merging eras like Shooterverse, Acclaimverse and Dineshverse."

If VH-1 becomes the Shooterverse and VEI becomes the Dineshverse, shouldn't VH-2 be the Niciezaverse and not the Acclaimverse?

Or is it the Fabianverse since VEI isn't the Shamdasaniverse?

Giving alternate realities in a multiverse names instead of numbers reminds me of the Jet Li movie "The One"...

BTW, merging multiple realities into one is just a version of Acclaim's 1999 Event, heh.

[TheFerg714]

If VH-1 becomes the Shooterverse and VEI becomes the Dineshverse, shouldn't VH-2 be the Niciezaverse and not the Acclaimverse?

lol that's fair, but wasn't Nicieza in charge after Birthquake too?

[ManofTheAtom]

If VH-1 becomes the Shooterverse and VEI becomes the Dineshverse, shouldn't VH-2 be the Niciezaverse and not the Acclaimverse?

lol that's fair, but wasn't Nicieza in charge after Birthquake too?

That would be that Acclaimverse refers to. It's not a reference to who owned the IPs but about the fictional narrative.

The "Acclaimverse", aka VH 2, began with X-O Manowar Vol. 2 #1, not with Birthquake or when Acclaim purchased Voyager/VALIANT.

Right now DMG owns the IP, but we're not going to call it the DMGVerse or even the Alienverse. We'll likely call it the HawkinsVerse.

[Ryan]

If VH-1 becomes the Shooterverse and VEI becomes the Dineshverse, shouldn't VH-2 be the Niciezaverse and not the Acclaimverse?

lol that's fair, but wasn't Nicieza in charge after Birthquake too?

Birthquake was still Layton as EiC. Same characters, same Vh1 continuity. The books continued their numbering, they just cancelled half the books and the ones that remained went bi-weekly.

[TheFerg714]

Birthquake was still Layton as EiC. Same characters, same Vh1 continuity. The books continued their numbering, they just cancelled half the books and the ones that remained went bi-weekly.

Ah, okay, I thought I read somewhere that Nicieza took over as EiC during Birthquake.

That would be that Acclaimverse refers to. It's not a reference to who owned the IPs but about the fictional narrative.

The "Acclaimverse", aka VH 2, began with X-O Manowar Vol. 2 #1, not with Birthquake or when Acclaim purchased Voyager/VALIANT.

Right now DMG owns the IP, but we're not going to call it the DMGVerse or even the Alienverse. We'll likely call it the HawkinsVerse.

I understand what the "Acclaimverse" refers to dude. I just thought Nicieza took over before the whole reboot happened.

I think 2012+ is all the Dineshverse (if that's what Bleeding Cool wants to call it; I prefer simply VEI). This upcoming reboot thing will make things more complicated.

[ManofTheAtom]

Birthquake was still Layton as EiC. Same characters, same Vh1 continuity. The books continued their numbering, they just cancelled half the books and the ones that remained went bi-weekly.

Ah, okay, I thought I read somewhere that Nicieza took over as EiC during Birthquake.

That would be that Acclaimverse refers to. It's not a reference to who owned the IPs but about the fictional narrative.

The "Acclaimverse", aka VH 2, began with X-O Manowar Vol. 2 #1, not with Birthquake or when Acclaim purchased Voyager/VALIANT.

Right now DMG owns the IP, but we're not going to call it the DMGVerse or even the Alienverse. We'll likely call it the HawkinsVerse.

I understand what the "Acclaimverse" refers to dude. I just thought Nicieza took over before the whole reboot happened.

I think 2012+ is all the Dineshverse (if that's what Bleeding Cool wants to call it; I prefer simply VEI). This upcoming reboot thing will make things more complicated.

Using Bleeding Cool's terminology, the reboot would either be the LisaVerse or the HawkwinsVerse, while using OUR terminology, would it be VEI-2?

[Ryan]

Birthquake was still Layton as EiC. Same characters, same Vh1 continuity. The books continued their numbering, they just cancelled half the books and the ones that remained went bi-weekly.

Ah, okay, I thought I read somewhere that Nicieza took over as EiC during Birthquake.

That would be that Acclaimverse refers to. It's not a reference to who owned the IPs but about the fictional narrative.

The "Acclaimverse", aka VH 2, began with X-O Manowar Vol. 2 #1, not with Birthquake or when Acclaim purchased Voyager/VALIANT.

Right now DMG owns the IP, but we're not going to call it the DMGVerse or even the Alienverse. We'll likely call it the HawkinsVerse.

I understand what the "Acclaimverse" refers to dude. I just thought Nicieza took over before the whole reboot happened.

I think 2012+ is all the Dineshverse (if that's what Bleeding Cool wants to call it; I prefer simply VEI). This upcoming reboot thing will make things more complicated.

Using Bleeding Cool's terminology, the reboot would either be the LisaVerse or the HawkwinsVerse, while using OUR terminology, would it be VEI-2?

I don't think Bleeding Cool's terminology is meant to be taken that seriously. It's just a shorthand for casual Valiant fans and general comic fans who don't remember every detail of Valiant's history. I consider the current comics to still be in the DMG era.

Dino is known by fans more as Dinesh than as Shamdasani while Shooter is known as Shooter and not so much as Jim (to comic fans). No one outside of the hardcores remembers that Fabian Nicieza was the EiC for Vh2, just that they were Acclaim Comics. And this lumps all the post-Nicieza comics up through U2K as Acclaim Comics era, which makes sense.

[ManofTheAtom]

Birthquake was still Layton as EiC. Same characters, same Vh1 continuity. The books continued their numbering, they just cancelled half the books and the ones that remained went bi-weekly.

Ah, okay, I thought I read somewhere that Nicieza took over as EiC during Birthquake.

That would be that Acclaimverse refers to. It's not a reference to who owned the IPs but about the fictional narrative.

The "Acclaimverse", aka VH 2, began with X-O Manowar Vol. 2 #1, not with Birthquake or when Acclaim purchased Voyager/VALIANT.

Right now DMG owns the IP, but we're not going to call it the DMGVerse or even the Alienverse. We'll likely call it the HawkinsVerse.

I understand what the "Acclaimverse" refers to dude. I just thought Nicieza took over before the whole reboot happened.

I think 2012+ is all the Dineshverse (if that's what Bleeding Cool wants to call it; I prefer simply VEI). This upcoming reboot thing will make things more complicated.

Using Bleeding Cool's terminology, the reboot would either be the LisaVerse or the HawkwinsVerse, while using OUR terminology, would it be VEI-2?

I don't think Bleeding Cool's terminology is meant to be taken that seriously. It's just a shorthand for casual Valiant fans and general comic fans who don't remember every detail of Valiant's history. I consider the current comics to still be in the DMG era.

Dino is known by fans more as Dinesh than as Shamdasani while Shooter is known as Shooter and not so much as Jim (to comic fans). No one outside of the hardcores remembers that Fabian Nicieza was the EiC for Vh2, just that they were Acclaim Comics. And this lumps all the post-Nicieza comics up through U2K as Acclaim Comics era, which makes sense.

Yes.

The real problem is when people confuse who owns the IP with the fictional narrative.

Just because Acclaim owns Voyager while they still published the original VALIANT Universe that does not make that part of the Acclaimverse. That is solely VH-2.

Likewise, just because DMG owns the IP that does not mean the VEI Universe ended. That won't happen until this reboot is published.

For some odd reason people tend to conflagrate things and refer to the VALIANT comics published between Acclaim's acquisition of Voyager and the start of VH 2 as being the same thing. Same for DMG and VEI.

Within the narrative, the separation between universes starts with X-O Manowar/Iron Man and X-O Manowar Vol. 2 #1, and X-O Manowar Vol. 3 #1 and whichever the comic that sets up the new universe ends up being called.

[Ryan]

Yes.

The real problem is when people confuse who owns the IP with the fictional narrative.

Just because Acclaim owns Voyager while they still published the original VALIANT Universe that does not make that part of the Acclaimverse. That is solely VH-2.

Likewise, just because DMG owns the IP that does not mean the VEI Universe ended. That won't happen until this reboot is published.

For some odd reason people tend to conflagrate things and refer to the VALIANT comics published between Acclaim's acquisition of Voyager and the start of VH 2 as being the same thing. Same for DMG and VEI.

Within the narrative, the separation between universes starts with X-O Manowar/Iron Man and X-O Manowar Vol. 2 #1, and X-O Manowar Vol. 3 #1 and whichever the comic that sets up the new universe ends up being called.

Yeah and as a hardcore Valiant fan I love getting into all the little details of continuity and where all the different things fit, and all the different classifications that have to be made to separate the different versions.

But I can also understand why a casual fan who isn't as invested just needs a shorthand quick way to understand the broad stroke differences, even if it isn't always 100% accurate.

Just like I'm only a casual TMNT fan who has watched some of the movies. If I tried to get into the comics I'm sure there's a maze of different continuities and different things that belong or don't belong in different worlds and versions. As a casual fan, I would just want the shorthand, like this is the Eastman/Laird universe, the cartoon universe, the IDW reboot, etc. or whatever it is. Just the broad strokes so I can get the gist of what the main continuities have been and what the major differences are.

[ManofTheAtom]

Yes.

The real problem is when people confuse who owns the IP with the fictional narrative.

Just because Acclaim owns Voyager while they still published the original VALIANT Universe that does not make that part of the Acclaimverse. That is solely VH-2.

Likewise, just because DMG owns the IP that does not mean the VEI Universe ended. That won't happen until this reboot is published.

For some odd reason people tend to conflagrate things and refer to the VALIANT comics published between Acclaim's acquisition of Voyager and the start of VH 2 as being the same thing. Same for DMG and VEI.

Within the narrative, the separation between universes starts with X-O Manowar/Iron Man and X-O Manowar Vol. 2 #1, and X-O Manowar Vol. 3 #1 and whichever the comic that sets up the new universe ends up being called.

Yeah and as a hardcore Valiant fan I love getting into all the little details of continuity and where all the different things fit, and all the different classifications that have to be made to separate the different versions.

But I can also understand why a casual fan who isn't as invested just needs a shorthand quick way to understand the broad stroke differences, even if it isn't always 100% accurate.

Just like I'm only a casual TMNT fan who has watched some of the movies. If I tried to get into the comics I'm sure there's a maze of different continuities and different things that belong or don't belong in different worlds and versions. As a casual fan, I would just want the shorthand, like this is the Eastman/Laird universe, the cartoon universe, the IDW reboot, etc. or whatever it is. Just the broad strokes so I can get the gist of what the main continuities have been and what the major differences are.

Indeed.

I don't disagree that BC's terminology is for the outsiders.

[The Harbinger]

It's an idea worth trying. Multiverse can appeal to all the old fans while focusing on new ones. Some of these characters like Harbinger are so convoluted and destroyed that there's no way to really rebound from where Stancheck's current status is and Harbinger Wars 2.

[nycjadie]

This sounds like another me too disaster. If I have to deal with one more multiverse story I’m going to lose it. I wonder if Marv Wolfman has regrets that the multiverse concept has become a cliched plot for lazy writers.

[ManofTheAtom]

It's an idea worth trying. Multiverse can appeal to all the old fans while focusing on new ones. Some of these characters like Harbinger are so convoluted and destroyed that there's no way to really rebound from where Stancheck's current status is and Harbinger Wars 2.

I was recently thinking about the latest Harbinger series and, while I vehemently disagree with the concept of Psiot City and how Peter is being rendered along the same lines as Marvel's Sentry, it occurred to me that having a Good Peter and an Evil Peter is pretty much the same way it was in VH 1 with the Visitor as the Good Peter and the Harbinger as the Bad Peter.

The idea is the same, it's the execution that wasn't convincing.

[ManofTheAtom]

This sounds like another me too disaster. If I have to deal with one more multiverse story I’m going to lose it. I wonder if Marv Wolfman has regrets that the multiverse concept has become a cliched plot for lazy writers.

Well, Wolfman destroyed it. It was Didio who brought it back, for no good reason.

What bothers me about the multiverse is that I feel it contradicts the "hard science" element of the VALIANT Universe.

Multiverses are theoretical, there really is no way to quantify their existence (no pun).

The first law of thermodynamics -- which pretty much made the backbone of Shooter's Solar -- states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only changed.

What that means is that all the energy that exists in the single universe was created during the big bang, making it impossible for there to be other universes.

All that can happen is what was seen in Solar: Second Death, the single universe being changed (in that instance by Seleski traveling back in time and preventing the Edgewater meltdown).

Multiverses may be cool comic book gimmicks, but the point of VALIANT was to stay away from cool comic book gimmicks.

[JonesyAZ]

I’m excited for this “relaunch” idea mainly because personally, I’m going to use the end of Resurgence to be my “jumping off” point for Valiant for the foreseeable future. I’ve kept up all through DMG and I’ve enjoyed much of it as casual reads, but am also ready to be done. Also, I am almost out of room for much more in my man-child-cave, hahahaha!

[ManofTheAtom]

I’m excited for this “relaunch” idea mainly because personally, I’m going to use the end of Resurgence to be my “jumping off” point for Valiant for the foreseeable future. I’ve kept up all through DMG and I’ve enjoyed much of it as casual reads, but am also ready to be done. Also, I am almost out of room for much more in my man-child-cave, hahahaha!

[Chiclo]

Birthquake was still Layton as EiC. Same characters, same Vh1 continuity. The books continued their numbering, they just cancelled half the books and the ones that remained went bi-weekly.

Ah, okay, I thought I read somewhere that Nicieza took over as EiC during Birthquake.

That would be that Acclaimverse refers to. It's not a reference to who owned the IPs but about the fictional narrative.

The "Acclaimverse", aka VH 2, began with X-O Manowar Vol. 2 #1, not with Birthquake or when Acclaim purchased Voyager/VALIANT.

Right now DMG owns the IP, but we're not going to call it the DMGVerse or even the Alienverse. We'll likely call it the HawkinsVerse.

I understand what the "Acclaimverse" refers to dude. I just thought Nicieza took over before the whole reboot happened.

I think 2012+ is all the Dineshverse (if that's what Bleeding Cool wants to call it; I prefer simply VEI). This upcoming reboot thing will make things more complicated.

Using Bleeding Cool's terminology, the reboot would either be the LisaVerse or the HawkwinsVerse, while using OUR terminology, would it be VEI-2?

Valient.

[ManofTheAtom]

Birthquake was still Layton as EiC. Same characters, same Vh1 continuity. The books continued their numbering, they just cancelled half the books and the ones that remained went bi-weekly.

Ah, okay, I thought I read somewhere that Nicieza took over as EiC during Birthquake.

That would be that Acclaimverse refers to. It's not a reference to who owned the IPs but about the fictional narrative.

The "Acclaimverse", aka VH 2, began with X-O Manowar Vol. 2 #1, not with Birthquake or when Acclaim purchased Voyager/VALIANT.

Right now DMG owns the IP, but we're not going to call it the DMGVerse or even the Alienverse. We'll likely call it the HawkinsVerse.

I understand what the "Acclaimverse" refers to dude. I just thought Nicieza took over before the whole reboot happened.

I think 2012+ is all the Dineshverse (if that's what Bleeding Cool wants to call it; I prefer simply VEI). This upcoming reboot thing will make things more complicated.

Using Bleeding Cool's terminology, the reboot would either be the LisaVerse or the HawkwinsVerse, while using OUR terminology, would it be VEI-2?

Valient.

Valient refers to who publishes the comics, not the continuity of the fictional narrative, though.

[Ryan]

A multiverse is just a way to describe when fictional characters have multiple iterations that exist in separate fictional worlds. It doesn't have to be acknowledged in the fiction for it to be true, it's just a way we use to define and categorize it.

Street Fighter has a video game, animated series, movie, and comic series all with somewhat different versions of the characters with different backstorys, etc. So that's a Street Fighter multiverse. It doesn't have to be acknowledged in the canon for it to exist. The different iterations of characters don't have to meet for the multiverse to exist. It's just a way to describe it.

Marv Wolfman didn't create the multiverse idea, it began when DC rebooted some of its Golden Age characters with different origins and backstorys, thus a multiverse.

Led by editor Julius Schwartz and writer Gardner Fox, DC Comics' superheroes were given a "reboot" with the publication of Showcase #4 in 1956, where a new version of the Flash made his first appearance. This is considered the beginning period of the Silver Age of Comic Books. The success of this new Flash led to the creation of new incarnations of the Golden Age characters who only shared the names and powers but had different secret identities, origins and stories.

Later, new versions of other heroes, Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, were also restarted by retelling their origins but keeping their secret identities. Gardner Fox, who worked before in the creation of the JSA, where other heroes met for the first time, created the story "Flash of Two Worlds" in The Flash #123 (1961), where Barry Allen, the new Flash, is transported to the Earth where the original Flash, Jay Garrick, existed. To Allen, Jay Garrick's world was a work of fiction as it was in the real world.

This story not only presented the encounter of two worlds and the existence of the Multiverse for the first time, but it also presented key features of the Multiverse: all the universes vibrate at a specific frequency which keeps them separated; these "barriers" could be trespassed by "tuning" to that vibration. Because people could also "tune-in" these worlds in dreams, some people wrote comic books with the stories from those worlds they dreamed, which explained why Barry Allen knew about Jay Garrick as a fictional character.

The Valiant multiverse was created when VH2 rebooted the characters and had them existing in a different fictional world than VH1. That doesn't mean they have to acknowledge it in the books or the characters ever have to interact.

Having the different versions interact would be a choice. I agree in general having the different versions of the same characters interact has become a tired trope at this point.