Preview: That book I dont get to read because I wont pay up

[greg]

There will be 12 total books for Book of Death and Legends of the Geomancer. Hardcover seems like a perfect fit.

[drmirage]

Will the LOTG hardcovers be a 1:25 ratio too?

[jmatt]

anything from a big company… take take take. they do it to you. they do it to the creator. these companies make millions/ billions and the creator gets thousands. if he's lucky hundreds of thousands. they lie cheat and steal. why not me?

That's theft no matter how you choose to justify it. And any court in the country would agree. Somebody else's success does not give everyone else a license to steal their stuff.

[ilzuccone]

anything from a big company… take take take. they do it to you. they do it to the creator. these companies make millions/ billions and the creator gets thousands. if he's lucky hundreds of thousands. they lie cheat and steal. why not me?

That's theft no matter how you choose to justify it. And any court in the country would agree. Somebody else's success does not give everyone else a license to steal their stuff.

never said it wasn't theft.

[hunter_peterson]

anything from a big company… take take take. they do it to you. they do it to the creator. these companies make millions/ billions and the creator gets thousands. if he's lucky hundreds of thousands. they lie cheat and steal. why not me?

That's theft no matter how you choose to justify it. And any court in the country would agree. Somebody else's success does not give everyone else a license to steal their stuff.

That's actually only true in America. In places like Europe you generally have to have intended to buy it in the first place. So they would have to prove that you personally cost the company money by not buying the material in question. Ameirca's laws are really restrictive and, IMHO, unethical when it comes to freedom of information on the Internet. It sucks that here in Australia, the Internet piracy capital of the world, that they are trying to imitate the American system. Especially because the restrictive laws have done absolutely nothing to stem the flow of piracy- Netflix did that. All it does is allow the government to spy on us better.

Honestly, the key issue with piracy is not that it is theft. Once it's online, it can't really be wield from anyone. The key issue is convenience. If the situation arises where it is more convenient to pirate, people will pirate. If companies make it easy and cheap to access their wares online, piracy declines. This is why Australia pirates so heavily- we only just got Netflix and it's severely limited in comparison to the overseas versions (which you can VPN anyway, but that requires savvy).

And overall, the companies will still be making nearly the same amount of money as they would without Internet piracy cutting into the profits unless a huge percentage of the audience pirates instead of buys.

With comics, I think a Netflix type model where you can pay a monthly fee to access the whole library would be a very viable option. Especially if it were company-centric. So say Valiant offers a membership fee to their comic streaming service of $10 a month and you can read every book as it comes out... this would effectively reduce the piracy to nothing. Just a thought.

As for this specific promotion, we need to remember that the intent is NOT to get Legends of the Geomancer into the hands of readers, but to get Book of Death onto the shelves of comic stores. So the piracy would be both expected and accepted by Valiant, most likely. They know it will happen. But for every person who buys the book legitimately, that's a bunch of potential books put on shelves.

An interesting debate, for sure.

[nscc]

I didnt check out the preview since I don't want to be spoiled on any of it. I did get the set Ed offered since I do want these issues though...

I did want to post here to say I HOPE everyone who does download "illegal or grey area" comics, movies, whatever, is using a good anonymous VPN. the one I use is privateinternetaccess.com. You can even buy from them with an anonymous gift card and a fake email. I personally use one for all traffic no matter what it is since I don't like the thought of my ISP or anyone tracking what I do. Plus, all is takes is some laws to change and BOOM! way worse penalties and blah blah blah

As far as my opinion, it is not right to pirate things, but it is what it is. People will do it, so at least do it as safely as you can.

I refuse to install pirated versions of windows for people, or office or whatever, but I do always try to get them to buy a good VPN so if they do pirate stuff at least there is very little chance of getting in trouble for it.

[lorddunlow]

I didnt check out the preview since I don't want to be spoiled on any of it. I did get the set Ed offered since I do want these issues though...

I did want to post here to say I HOPE everyone who does download "illegal or grey area" comics, movies, whatever, is using a good anonymous VPN. the one I use is privateinternetaccess.com. You can even buy from them with an anonymous gift card and a fake email. I personally use one for all traffic no matter what it is since I don't like the thought of my ISP or anyone tracking what I do. Plus, all is takes is some laws to change and BOOM! way worse penalties and blah blah blah

As far as my opinion, it is not right to pirate things, but it is what it is. People will do it, so at least do it as safely as you can.

I refuse to install pirated versions of windows for people, or office or whatever, but I do always try to get them to buy a good VPN so if they do pirate stuff at least there is very little chance of getting in trouble for it.

That's a false sense of security. Maybe a little more safe from the spying governments, but overall, not bulletproof. Not even TOR is safe. There was a great study by some MIT group (or maybe CalTech or something) that showed they could successfully de-anonymize 90% of traffic sent through the TOR network.

You anonymity is only as good as the weakest link in the network. Your internet connection goes through dozens to hundreds of computers with each click, so the probability of one of those computers being the government is high.

[nscc]

I didnt check out the preview since I don't want to be spoiled on any of it. I did get the set Ed offered since I do want these issues though...

I did want to post here to say I HOPE everyone who does download "illegal or grey area" comics, movies, whatever, is using a good anonymous VPN. the one I use is privateinternetaccess.com. You can even buy from them with an anonymous gift card and a fake email. I personally use one for all traffic no matter what it is since I don't like the thought of my ISP or anyone tracking what I do. Plus, all is takes is some laws to change and BOOM! way worse penalties and blah blah blah

As far as my opinion, it is not right to pirate things, but it is what it is. People will do it, so at least do it as safely as you can.

I refuse to install pirated versions of windows for people, or office or whatever, but I do always try to get them to buy a good VPN so if they do pirate stuff at least there is very little chance of getting in trouble for it.

That's a false sense of security. Maybe a little more safe from the spying governments, but overall, not bulletproof. Not even TOR is safe. There was a great study by some MIT group (or maybe CalTech or something) that showed they could successfully de-anonymize 90% of traffic sent through the TOR network.

You anonymity is only as good as the weakest link in the network. Your internet connection goes through dozens to hundreds of computers with each click, so the probability of one of those computers being the government is high.

I completely agree, nothing is 100%, but to me it is the bare minimum to prevent ISP and others sniffing network traffic passively.

Against Big brother none of us have a chance

[cray_ws]

My barometer of whether I quit Valiant is highly subjective, so I can't say why I haven't quit already. This whole LOTG fiasco has rubbed me wrong and I hope Valiant doesn't do this kind of thing again. I know they said it wouldn't be available digitally, but that was said before and they changed their minds. So I'm going be patient and see what they do when LOTG is completed and compiled for trade. I honestly don't know how I will feel if they hold true to their word. Who knows, by then whatever soreness I feel towards Valiant may dissipate or it may flare up. It's a wait and see mentality right now. I'm plenty patient, so I'm really not too worried about it. I've got plenty of other comics to read.

[lorddunlow]

My barometer of whether I quit Valiant is highly subjective, so I can't say why I haven't quit already. This whole LOTG fiasco has rubbed me wrong and I hope Valiant doesn't do this kind of thing again. I know they said it wouldn't be available digitally, but that was said before and they changed their minds. So I'm going be patient and see what they do when LOTG is completed and compiled for trade. I honestly don't know how I will feel if they hold true to their word. Who knows, by then whatever soreness I feel towards Valiant may dissipate or it may flare up. It's a wait and see mentality right now. I'm plenty patient, so I'm really not too worried about it. I've got plenty of other comics to read.

Who volunteers to rub cray_ws the "right" way?

[ilzuccone]

[ilzuccone]

My barometer of whether I quit Valiant is highly subjective, so I can't say why I haven't quit already. This whole LOTG fiasco has rubbed me wrong and I hope Valiant doesn't do this kind of thing again. I know they said it wouldn't be available digitally, but that was said before and they changed their minds. So I'm going be patient and see what they do when LOTG is completed and compiled for trade. I honestly don't know how I will feel if they hold true to their word. Who knows, by then whatever soreness I feel towards Valiant may dissipate or it may flare up. It's a wait and see mentality right now. I'm plenty patient, so I'm really not too worried about it. I've got plenty of other comics to read.

Who volunteers to rub cray_ws the "right" way?

done and done

[Ramses818]

Wow. After reading this whole thread I feel I must be in a very small minority. I LOVE this idea. A limited run of a story that people have to buy the floppy to get. I will preface it by saying I am a collector. I do some digital, mostly Marvel because to me it has no value anymore. I pay $10 a month for the marvel unlimited app and even though it's a few months behind I can read everything. I love the idea of people having to go into a shop and buy a floppy is the only way to actually read a comic book. I think it encourages more people to go back in the comic book shops. I know we have busy lives and people like the convenience of digital but I think that's hurting the industry. Foxtrot even ran a cartoon this past weekend that I think hit the nail on the head. People wait for trades because it cheaper. They read digital because it's cheaper and /or easier. I like people going into a LCS and looking for a book (that has been explained in other threads very well) is actually very easy to get if your not trying to make excuses. Some other things I liked that VEI has done...Gold program a give away for support instead of a incentive to order, blank sketch books, QR covers, digital stories (Unity was a awesome 8-bit adventure!), tie in mobile platform games, silly shot glasses and box cutters just to name a few. Every company does variant covers (even over done at this point.) so I applaud valiant for being a trendsetter and trying new things. Not everything works for every collector. But like I said I love the idea of a exclusive content book instead of just a cover. Then again I like going into comic book stores and talking about comics and reading bunches of them, not saying everyone else doesn't, just that I think this is a good thing for Valiant by Valiant.

[Donovan]

You're not alone. Those who understand or appreciate the potential this incentive brings just aren't as vocal as those who dislike it. Not to say that their reasons aren't valid and understandable. This is an incentive that carries an amount of risk, to be sure. But most things required to make large gains are risky by nature.

Can't wait for this to come out!

And considering that other things are ONLY AVAILABLE HERE AND NOW NEVER TO BE REPRINTED IN ANY FORMAT are now being made available, I think we need to just chill.

[kjjohanson]

Wow. After reading this whole thread I feel I must be in a very small minority. I LOVE this idea. A limited run of a story that people have to buy the floppy to get. I will preface it by saying I am a collector. I do some digital, mostly Marvel because to me it has no value anymore. I pay $10 a month for the marvel unlimited app and even though it's a few months behind I can read everything. I love the idea of people having to go into a shop and buy a floppy is the only way to actually read a comic book. I think it encourages more people to go back in the comic book shops. I know we have busy lives and people like the convenience of digital but I think that's hurting the industry. Foxtrot even ran a cartoon this past weekend that I think hit the nail on the head. People wait for trades because it cheaper. They read digital because it's cheaper and /or easier. I like people going into a LCS and looking for a book (that has been explained in other threads very well) is actually very easy to get if your not trying to make excuses. Some other things I liked that VEI has done...Gold program a give away for support instead of a incentive to order, blank sketch books, QR covers, digital stories (Unity was a awesome 8-bit adventure!), tie in mobile platform games, silly shot glasses and box cutters just to name a few. Every company does variant covers (even over done at this point.) so I applaud valiant for being a trendsetter and trying new things. Not everything works for every collector. But like I said I love the idea of a exclusive content book instead of just a cover. Then again I like going into comic book stores and talking about comics and reading bunches of them, not saying everyone else doesn't, just that I think this is a good thing for Valiant by Valiant.

I like going into a comic shop as well. I don't like having to pay an exorbitant amount to read a story that I want to read. It's artificial scarcity.

[lorddunlow]

Wow. After reading this whole thread I feel I must be in a very small minority. I LOVE this idea. A limited run of a story that people have to buy the floppy to get. I will preface it by saying I am a collector. I do some digital, mostly Marvel because to me it has no value anymore. I pay $10 a month for the marvel unlimited app and even though it's a few months behind I can read everything. I love the idea of people having to go into a shop and buy a floppy is the only way to actually read a comic book. I think it encourages more people to go back in the comic book shops. I know we have busy lives and people like the convenience of digital but I think that's hurting the industry. Foxtrot even ran a cartoon this past weekend that I think hit the nail on the head. People wait for trades because it cheaper. They read digital because it's cheaper and /or easier. I like people going into a LCS and looking for a book (that has been explained in other threads very well) is actually very easy to get if your not trying to make excuses. Some other things I liked that VEI has done...Gold program a give away for support instead of a incentive to order, blank sketch books, QR covers, digital stories (Unity was a awesome 8-bit adventure!), tie in mobile platform games, silly shot glasses and box cutters just to name a few. Every company does variant covers (even over done at this point.) so I applaud valiant for being a trendsetter and trying new things. Not everything works for every collector. But like I said I love the idea of a exclusive content book instead of just a cover. Then again I like going into comic book stores and talking about comics and reading bunches of them, not saying everyone else doesn't, just that I think this is a good thing for Valiant by Valiant.

I like going into a comic shop as well. I don't like having to pay an exorbitant amount to read a story that I want to read. It's artificial scarcity.

Also, you won't be able to just walk into a comic shop and buy one of these.

[DirtbagSailor]

[DirtbagSailor]

My barometer of whether I quit Valiant is highly subjective, so I can't say why I haven't quit already. This whole LOTG fiasco has rubbed me wrong and I hope Valiant doesn't do this kind of thing again. I know they said it wouldn't be available digitally, but that was said before and they changed their minds. So I'm going be patient and see what they do when LOTG is completed and compiled for trade. I honestly don't know how I will feel if they hold true to their word. Who knows, by then whatever soreness I feel towards Valiant may dissipate or it may flare up. It's a wait and see mentality right now. I'm plenty patient, so I'm really not too worried about it. I've got plenty of other comics to read.

This rant is a turducken of bullsh!t.

[Ricomortis]

[lorddunlow]

Everyone needs a DirtbagSailor

[Brapbrap]

Can't wait to pirate this online from someone else's PDF scans!

I was under the impression that Valiant needed all the sales it could get...

i dont like these kind of incentives so im not going to support them with my money, i will support any valiant comic that isnt associated with this incentive.

[cray_ws]

This rant is a turducken of bullsh!t.

Thanks for your opinion, very much appreciated.

[Jace]

I pirate when I cannot obtain things in the "legal" way. Example: I cannot purchase a way to play Mike Tyson's Punch-Out in a way that would benefit Nintendo, the creator of that game. You can buy Punch-Out with Mr. Dream (no Mike Tyson because of expiration of licensing deal), but not the original. Therefore, I play the original on an emulator. That might technically be illegal (but in this instance it is actually very grey even as far as laws are written), but morally, I see no problem.

As far as this book is concerned, it's not available digitally. I actually put my money down for all 4 issues (Thanks, Ed!), but I always read digitally, so I'll likely be seeking out a scan of this book to read in my preferred format.

I also pirate old TV shows for which DVD sets were never released or released many years ago and are now out of print. The company/creators don't allow me to give them money, so I download copies.

This is something I love discussing. In my opinion, the cottage industry GameStop has created with resale of games is much more morally wrong than pirating a game to try it out before buying it (if there is not a demo).

sounds like a lot of effort to rationalize stealing mike tyson's punch out.

i grew up with napster. i think everything should be free. fight the system!

I disagree that everything should be free (I'm not sure if you were joking or not), as I strongly feel creators (and the companies that take risk to get the creations made and distributed) should be compensated for their work. It just irks me that licensing/exclusives/cost-benefit analysis/etc. keep me from giving my money to creators/companies for a product. Especially when it is available "extra-legally". It's either laziness or strategy to create false scarcity. I tolerate neither. When I can give money to creators/companies for content, I do so. If I can't, then I'll pirate until I can.

Dude, you're not getting a Manimal DVD box set because no one else wants a Manimal DVD box set. Get over it.

First of all Manimal is sooooo bad that it is actually fun to watch. Perhaps it is just nostalgia for 9 year old me. This show along with Automan and Msfits of Science hold a special place in my memory. The show that I would VERY,VERY much like to get my hands on though is The Phoenix. Only 4 episiodes were made and I haven't seen them since they aired in 1982!


As far as pirating goes. Comics are expensive when you compare them to the amount of entertainment vs cost. If I pay $4 or $5 for a book and am done in 5 to 10 minutes that isn't a very good value so I understand why people do it. I myself like to buy the books to support the creators. I know a lot of creators personally and it just seems so disingenuous to me to say you are a fan of theirs and whatnot when you are stealing their work. That being said I have downloaded scans before and read them when I simply could not wait for my DCBS order to get here and had to read something immediately. However, I have also gone down to my LCS first thing Wednesday morning and bought books that were in my DCBS order and ended up with 2 copies because I wanted to read it so bad. Now that I live in Phoenix and have lots of good shops close by this is now an option.

I also understand very well why VEI has chosen to distribute The Legend of the Geomancer in this way. They are so good to their fans though so I have little doubt that the book will be available one way or the other down the line. Whether that is in a hardcover, or some other way. I also would not be surprised to them them given out to fans much like the Gold Books. Oooooo maybe there will be a LotG Gold, that would be awesome! I do want to mention one other thing in regards to the book and preview if you guys like the art by Juan Jose Ryp, I cannot recommend his book Clone from Skybound highly enough. It is a great read. 20 issues out so far and currently on hiatus but so, so good. Please go seek it out or get the trades.

[geocarr]

I do want to mention one other thing in regards to the book and preview if you guys like the art by Juan Jose Ryp, I cannot recommend his book Clone from Skybound highly enough. It is a great read. 20 issues out so far and currently on hiatus but so, so good. Please go seek it out or get the trades.

Doesn't Clone have a very similar premise to the show "Orphan Black"?

[kjjohanson]

I pirate when I cannot obtain things in the "legal" way. Example: I cannot purchase a way to play Mike Tyson's Punch-Out in a way that would benefit Nintendo, the creator of that game. You can buy Punch-Out with Mr. Dream (no Mike Tyson because of expiration of licensing deal), but not the original. Therefore, I play the original on an emulator. That might technically be illegal (but in this instance it is actually very grey even as far as laws are written), but morally, I see no problem.

As far as this book is concerned, it's not available digitally. I actually put my money down for all 4 issues (Thanks, Ed!), but I always read digitally, so I'll likely be seeking out a scan of this book to read in my preferred format.

I also pirate old TV shows for which DVD sets were never released or released many years ago and are now out of print. The company/creators don't allow me to give them money, so I download copies.

This is something I love discussing. In my opinion, the cottage industry GameStop has created with resale of games is much more morally wrong than pirating a game to try it out before buying it (if there is not a demo).

sounds like a lot of effort to rationalize stealing mike tyson's punch out.

i grew up with napster. i think everything should be free. fight the system!

I disagree that everything should be free (I'm not sure if you were joking or not), as I strongly feel creators (and the companies that take risk to get the creations made and distributed) should be compensated for their work. It just irks me that licensing/exclusives/cost-benefit analysis/etc. keep me from giving my money to creators/companies for a product. Especially when it is available "extra-legally". It's either laziness or strategy to create false scarcity. I tolerate neither. When I can give money to creators/companies for content, I do so. If I can't, then I'll pirate until I can.

Dude, you're not getting a Manimal DVD box set because no one else wants a Manimal DVD box set. Get over it.

First of all Manimal is sooooo bad that it is actually fun to watch. Perhaps it is just nostalgia for 9 year old me. This show along with Automan and Msfits of Science hold a special place in my memory. The show that I would VERY,VERY much like to get my hands on though is The Phoenix. Only 4 episiodes were made and I haven't seen them since they aired in 1982!


As far as pirating goes. Comics are expensive when you compare them to the amount of entertainment vs cost. If I pay $4 or $5 for a book and am done in 5 to 10 minutes that isn't a very good value so I understand why people do it. I myself like to buy the books to support the creators. I know a lot of creators personally and it just seems so disingenuous to me to say you are a fan of theirs and whatnot when you are stealing their work. That being said I have downloaded scans before and read them when I simply could not wait for my DCBS order to get here and had to read something immediately. However, I have also gone down to my LCS first thing Wednesday morning and bought books that were in my DCBS order and ended up with 2 copies because I wanted to read it so bad. Now that I live in Phoenix and have lots of good shops close by this is now an option.

I also understand very well why VEI has chosen to distribute The Legend of the Geomancer in this way. They are so good to their fans though so I have little doubt that the book will be available one way or the other down the line. Whether that is in a hardcover, or some other way. I also would not be surprised to them them given out to fans much like the Gold Books. Oooooo maybe there will be a LotG Gold, that would be awesome! I do want to mention one other thing in regards to the book and preview if you guys like the art by Juan Jose Ryp, I cannot recommend his book Clone from Skybound highly enough. It is a great read. 20 issues out so far and currently on hiatus but so, so good. Please go seek it out or get the trades.

I have scans of the VH1 and Acclaim stuff that a friend gave to me a few years ago. But I also own almost all the original issues (and will buy the few that I don't have as I find them). The digital scans are just easier to read than lugging out all my hard copies. I generally don't see a probably with having an illicit digital copy when you've paid for the content some other way. The important thing is that you've paid for it, which is important if you want to keep seeing more of it.