Shadowman #12 discussion

[VEI Reborn]

This title is puzzling.

It reminds me of those old school sluggers that only swung for the fences. They would strike out 3 times in a row but on the 4th at-bat hit a home run.

[blujay]

I'm not a big fan of short stories in the comic medium. Unless very well done, they usually fall short in content quality. IMO, the first story was the best. You get to see Jack's personality even though he's in Shadowman mode. His confusion and anger are a good setup for what's coming in #13. I only read it once, and I'm not sure if there really is a stone that's keeping Darque's abominations from dying, but my take was that Jaunty was making a point to Jack. The stone was a fake. The charred bodies were real, not due to a mythical stone, but because they went to a spot where Jaunty knew a dragon roosts/visits. It's a kill zone. The trick worked - Jack did admit he felt lost, and he needs to focus to harness and control the loa power.

Good observations

I really enjoyed the first story, but once I finished it I kinda scratched my head and wondered what it was about. I think that's what brought it down for me, but now that I understand it it kinda jumps up a little bit for me. Plus I do love me some Jaunty

I think if there's one thing this issue did right, was to get the anger side of Shadowman down. Which has surprisingly been kinda (but not completely) absent from the first year.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

Ya know, if I didn't read all this criticism, I wouldn't have really thought anything of it. It was a creative way to bridge the gap until issue 13 comes out.
I LOVED the artwork in the first story. It wasn't just good, it was pretty damn great. I'd like to see more of that with Valiant. I was cool with the story, but Jaunty didn't speak like we've grown accustomed to him speaking, all Yoda/Jar Jar sort of.
I was also alright with the second two stories, each providing a little more info on backgrounds of what I assume we will see more of in the future. The art in story 2 was almost unbearable though. Don't need any more of that. Art in story 3 was alright though.

I have been a huge basher of Shadowman, but aside from issues 0 and 10, 11 and 12 actually make the most sense to me. They might not be deep, but they're entertaining stand alone issues, instead of basically nothing happening over the course of 9 issues.

But yes, Shadowman was one of my favorite VH1 characters, so I am looking forward very much to this revamp, to bring an awesome character back to the status he belongs.

[BugsySig]

Ya know, if I didn't read all this criticism, I wouldn't have really thought anything of it. It was a creative way to bridge the gap until issue 13 comes out.
I LOVED the artwork in the first story. It wasn't just good, it was pretty damn great. I'd like to see more of that with Valiant. I was cool with the story, but Jaunty didn't speak like we've grown accustomed to him speaking, all Yoda/Jar Jar sort of.
I was also alright with the second two stories, each providing a little more info on backgrounds of what I assume we will see more of in the future. The art in story 2 was almost unbearable though. Don't need any more of that. Art in story 3 was alright though.

I have been a huge basher of Shadowman, but aside from issues 0 and 10, 11 and 12 actually make the most sense to me. They might not be deep, but they're entertaining stand alone issues, instead of basically nothing happening over the course of 9 issues.

But yes, Shadowman was one of my favorite VH1 characters, so I am looking forward very much to this revamp, to bring an awesome character back to the status he belongs.

The first story was drawn by CAFU, who is fantastic. He was with DC for a while, but if he's available he would be a GREAT addition. If you liked his work, check out DC's THUNDER Agents Vol. 1 by he and Nick Spencer...good story with fantastic art.

[Phoenix8008]

I also really liked the art in the first story, but not so much in the later two (and don't ask about the weird '4th story' at the very end). The first story was okay, but I liked the second one alot. Going back to revisit the Soma storyline from previously and seeing how Shadowman doesn't just murder everybody was cool. He investigated and took appropriate action for all parties involved.

[bygranddesign]

I think the concept of the issue (anthology) and the stories themselves were what I wanted and was looking for with this transition issue... they were all distinctive enough and introduced new ideas and characters and insights into the Shadowman world.

The execution though wasn't great ... but the writers are a bit handicapped by a main character that is a bit of shallow archetype at this point. If the main character was more/better developed and perhaps more endearing ... than certain scenes would have been pulled off better. Shadowman getting mad always feels a bit forced to me.


all in all I thought it was a solid effort for all three stories ... and i'm hoping that some of the characters and themes are re-introduced when Milligan takes over. I give it a solid passing grade 6.5/10

[bygranddesign]

I'm also so glad that the Costume is getting updated by RDLT. Patch's superior art was able to pull off that style ... but the bulky gloves and military belt and look ... doesn't quite mesh with a dark magic underworld that is being portrayed in the storyline's.

[bygranddesign]

on a side note ... wasn't Clayton Crain originally solicited to be doing a storyline in this issue??

Maybe they made a last minute change in order to have him do the flashback in EW #2

[jmatt]

One other thought concerning the Jaunty story. Mendacem stone. Mendacity. The stone is nothing special, Jaunty used it as a ruse.

[somewhatlazy]

The transition between changing creative direction has been rough on this book.

[iwantvaliant]

I ask this in all seriousness: Is this canon? Where do these stories fit in with what has come before?

I liked the second story most of all, and I felt that it had enough room to be fleshed out into a whole issue. It could show more of Shadowman's thought process and give the story an actual ending. And what was that dude putting in the milk? And why?

Next issue can't come quick enough.

[Heath]

I wish I could get my money back for the last two issues. What total crap! One full length crappy story wasn't enough. Let's follow that by cramming 3 and a half crappy stories into one issue!

Everyone at VEI should be embarrassed over this crap. If this was the best they could do for a couple filler issues they shouldn't have even tried. Just skip a couple months.

Did I mention the last two issues were total crap?

[jmatt]

And what was that dude putting in the milk? And why?

Yeah, I'm a little confused by that myself. Is it soma? For a child? He goes to the grocery store just before that so it's not exactly clear.

[lorddunlow]

I can't understand what happened that they just didn't let Justin Jordan write #11 and #12. I mean, it couldn't have been worse. I liked his work on the series. Granted, Shadowman was at the bottom of my VEI pile, but that's some stiff competition. It consistently was enjoyable to me while he was writing. These last two - sorry, I forgot they didn't make a #11 for a minute there - were not that enjoyable overall.

[Phoenix8008]

And what was that dude putting in the milk? And why?

Yeah, I'm a little confused by that myself. Is it soma? For a child? He goes to the grocery store just before that so it's not exactly clear.

Yes, I think he was putting Soma in the milk at home and skimming a little of the money from his employers. His kid had some bad sickness that left him in pain from what I remember. I think the Soma was to try and alleviate the kids pain and make him feel better. Basically, Shadowman checked the guy out and found out he's only doing what he's doing to try and help his wife and sick kid. He won't be able to get more Soma now, but at least he has that briefcase full of money. That'll last him for a while during his 'running to the light'.

[Watchtower]

Oh man, the sheer amount of salt around here.

I've found #11 and #12 to be okay issues. Worst crime they commit is being "meh"; there's nothing outright horrible going on. I do like #12 a little bit over #11 though, mostly 'cause the anthology format wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be.

And I thought Jaunty's lesson in the first story was rather clear: the path to a clarity is a step one must take himself.

[Knightt]

Is there a huge editing error in the third story? The old man sweeping up, ends up being some kind of "demon"(?), is introduced as Harold. Then Jack busts in to see him manipulating Hosho McCreery (is this an homage to the poet/writer Hosho McCreesh?) and calls the "demon" Wilson?

The current Shadow does not seem to be in the current Valiant continuity and I think is this why it doesn't "work" for many of us. Just like Quantum & Woody (which has not worked for me AT ALL since issue #1 and has become my first Valiant title that has been DROPPED from my pullbox) is not in (doesnt seem to be) the current Valiant continuity and doesn't "work" either. I'm not sure if it a humor title, sarcastic title or exactly what it is but it's been officially cancelled in this Valiant Fan's collection. I'll wait for the immanent $.50 box that Q&W will grace just so I can "complete" my collection one day (which by my calculations, if Valiant lasts for 5 years, should be 15,749 books with all the variant, sketch, and mask covers )

This Deadside Shadowman and Q&W seem to be throwbacks to what appears to be the only salvageable junk from the Acclam titles as they were somewhat well received. The good idea fairy dropped into the VEI office and laid out a few "which titles from our vast library of characters have the potential to make us money" schemes which have not either taken hold yet or are just that... Throwbacks.

Shadowman was EXTREMELY popular during the VH1 run. Us "old timers" can name off very few VH1 titles that were really good up until the final issue. VH1 Shadowman is one of them.

If VEI wants to make moneybAND make a few Valiant Fans happy vice being patient and tolerant, they might want to pull out those reader copies of VH1 Shadowman and mimic that formula for success. The Jack in blue jeans, biker boots, leather jacket, and a really cool mask is much more appealing to me (even works with the supernatural aspect of the Shadowman mythos) than the current superhero vibe in the title. If they don't capture what originally made Shadowman a success, The Friendly Neighborhood Shadowman may be making its way onto more "titles recently dropped lists" than my own.

I really like the art in the first story of this issue. Not sure what it is but the basic artwork by Cafu are more appealing than the colored art by Andy Troy. I would buy up all Director"s Cut versions of an entire issue drawn/inked by Cafu. Even though He doesn't appear to "ink"m what IS that style. It's not rendering but hot damn that looks nice.

I'm not trying to be overly negative here. I want the Shadowman title to give me that warm fuzzy that I feel when reading other Valiant Comics. I want to feel good about spending $3.99 an issue. I want Valiant Comics to succeed and be around for years to come. This has GOT TO BE TOUGH for the Valiant leadership and creative team but they have got to give Valiant Fans something to work with as well.

[Phoenix8008]

I'm not trying to be overly negative here. I want the Shadowman title to give me that warm fuzzy that I feel when reading other Valiant Comics. I want to feel good about spending $3.99 an issue. I want Valiant Comics to succeed and be around for years to come. This has GOT TO BE TOUGH for the Valiant leadership and creative team but they have got to give Valiant Fans something to work with as well.

I'm very hopeful that next month's issue #13 with the new creative team will be the start of the turnaround many of us have wanted for the Shadowman title.

[Tim]

Talked to Dinesh this weekend and expressed my concerns about Shadowman. He explained a little bit about why he felt the book was struggling and then said that based on his reading #13 and the scripts that Milligan has turned in so far, he firmly believed that the next time I saw him I'd be saying that Shadowman was my favorite Valiant book. That's a pretty strong endorsement, so I'm going to take his word for it.

[tchalla8]

Talked to Dinesh this weekend and expressed my concerns about Shadowman. He explained a little bit about why he felt the book was struggling and then said that based on his reading #13 and the scripts that Milligan has turned in so far, he firmly believed that the next time I saw him I'd be saying that Shadowman was my favorite Valiant book. That's a pretty strong endorsement, so I'm going to take his word for it.

and his explanation was?

[Tim]

I was too incredibly hung over to remember too specific details, but the gist of it was that they tried to establish the mythology too fast at the expense of establishing Jack as a character.

[hunter_peterson]

I was too incredibly hung over to remember too specific details, but the gist of it was that they tried to establish the mythology too fast at the expense of establishing Jack as a character.

Very astute appraisal there.

I enjoyed this issue as filler, basically just fluff. It wasn't bad, just kind of pointless. That one name error in the third story was kind of terrible, even though the story itself was decent. I would say this is a solidly 2.5 star issue... aggressively mediocre.

[leonmallett]

These last two issues are doing so much damage to the title, I don't know if all the push in the world for the new team will be able to withstand it.

Yet in terms of sales, it is actually doing okay within context of the line, regardless of views of 'damage' done.

More broadly (and not in response to your comments specifically BugsySig) the book has endured a lot of criticism on this board (as well as some support) through much of its existence, yet it has maintained within the overall sales range of the line. There are some sweeping comments about axing it, yet arguably that does not seem to stack up against its performance as a product.

I am with those who would argue that interrupting the book to carry on the numbering after a 2-3 month break could harm the carefully built up reputation of VEI in the past 18 months. That said, relaunching with a new #1 with an adjusted title 'Shadowman: something or other' (e.g.: Shadowman: Second Coming - ) may have been a better option, but they, VEI, have made their decision, and the soundness of that decision will be proven or dis-proven. But to claim the harm done by the single issues is arguably one based on perception rather than sales.

[JustinJordan]

I was too incredibly hung over to remember too specific details, but the gist of it was that they tried to establish the mythology too fast at the expense of establishing Jack as a character.

I think that too, so he's not alone.

[lorddunlow]

I was too incredibly hung over to remember too specific details, but the gist of it was that they tried to establish the mythology too fast at the expense of establishing Jack as a character.

I think that too, so he's not alone.

You're too hung over to remember the details?