Shadowman #12 discussion
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Shadowman #12 discussion
The good: Nice cover
The bad: Story #1 was just "a'ight", mainly because Jaunty is still awesome. But I had no idea what was going on in the last 2 stories. Plus the transition between #2 and #3 wasn't even made apparent. I thought I was still reading #2 before I realized I was nearly at the end of #3. Which means story #2 had exactly one page where Shadowman is part of the story. So who is this drug runner we're following around in #2? Are we supposed to know who this is?
What an editing disaster.
As for the Art, Cafu was the only art I even remotely connected to. The rest was mediocre to poor.
I hate to keep hammering on this title...I mean I REALLY hate it, because I think Shadowman as a character is awesome...but this was bad. Worse than last month.
#13 can't get here soon enough.
The bad: Story #1 was just "a'ight", mainly because Jaunty is still awesome. But I had no idea what was going on in the last 2 stories. Plus the transition between #2 and #3 wasn't even made apparent. I thought I was still reading #2 before I realized I was nearly at the end of #3. Which means story #2 had exactly one page where Shadowman is part of the story. So who is this drug runner we're following around in #2? Are we supposed to know who this is?
What an editing disaster.
As for the Art, Cafu was the only art I even remotely connected to. The rest was mediocre to poor.
I hate to keep hammering on this title...I mean I REALLY hate it, because I think Shadowman as a character is awesome...but this was bad. Worse than last month.
#13 can't get here soon enough.
Spooooon!!!!
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
Seriously? Good God...I wouldn't think that was even possible....tchalla8 wrote:Worse than last month.

Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
I suppose an argument could be made that #12 is better than #11....but what would be the point?Tim wrote:Seriously? Good God...I wouldn't think that was even possible....tchalla8 wrote:Worse than last month.

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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
Just read it. Not worse than 11 in my opinion, but almost as bad. The art in the first story is tremendous ans that's as far as I can go with compliments for this issue. If Milligan can't turn this book around in a timely fashion, I think they should just put a bullet in this title.
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
I haven't read this yet, but given the format I don't really care about reading the spoilers/discussion.
I was originally of the opinion that VEI needed to keep the title going so as not to have a "failure" on their record. Now, if what is being said on #12 is true and having read #11, the book should have been shelved for a few months and returned with the new creative team.
Issue 10 could have been put off for a month, leaving a 1 month gap before and after. Then relaunch with the new team, keep the numbering so as not to completely admit defeat, and go from there.
These last two issues are doing so much damage to the title, I don't know if all the push in the world for the new team will be able to withstand it.
I was originally of the opinion that VEI needed to keep the title going so as not to have a "failure" on their record. Now, if what is being said on #12 is true and having read #11, the book should have been shelved for a few months and returned with the new creative team.
Issue 10 could have been put off for a month, leaving a 1 month gap before and after. Then relaunch with the new team, keep the numbering so as not to completely admit defeat, and go from there.
These last two issues are doing so much damage to the title, I don't know if all the push in the world for the new team will be able to withstand it.
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
I never understand anybody on this board
Oh well, it was decent. Not amazing but I didn't really expect it to be. The first story was the weakest in my opinion, mostly cuz I had no idea what the hell Jaunty was trying to teach Jack.
The second story wasn't really a Shadowman story. But for what it was, it was ok. I liked the ending, although I wasn't exactly clear what the guy was doing in his "line of work" the whole time (harnessing drugs from children?).
The third story I actually liked quite a bit. It was just a fun little story. I think the issue would've been better if they had just made it this story.
The art was decent, except for the second issue...wasn't a fan of that art at all
Overall 6/10

Oh well, it was decent. Not amazing but I didn't really expect it to be. The first story was the weakest in my opinion, mostly cuz I had no idea what the hell Jaunty was trying to teach Jack.
The second story wasn't really a Shadowman story. But for what it was, it was ok. I liked the ending, although I wasn't exactly clear what the guy was doing in his "line of work" the whole time (harnessing drugs from children?).
The third story I actually liked quite a bit. It was just a fun little story. I think the issue would've been better if they had just made it this story.
The art was decent, except for the second issue...wasn't a fan of that art at all
Overall 6/10
Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
There's not much to understand really. I just thought it was low quality.blujay wrote:I never understand anybody on this board![]()
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
Well not just opinion-wisetchalla8 wrote:There's not much to understand really. I just thought it was low quality.blujay wrote:I never understand anybody on this board![]()

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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
First things first, I haven't read the issue yet. I'm hoping to pick it and Q&W #5 up after work tonight. But even without reading it I can say that I didn't have any expectations for this issue or #11. We knew months ago that they were just filler issues to brigde the gap between the old and the new creative teams. Has the series been the weakest of all VEI's so far? Obviously, yes. But we shouldn't judge the series too harshly RIGHT NOW. Wait for next issue/arc to judge the new team.
I understand that these filler issues aren't even up to snuff compared to the series as it's been so far, but just stopping with #10 and not putting anything out for 2-3 months would have been a bad option too. I've heard tons of people here on the boards complaing about other companies not shipping their books on time and going multiple months between issues. I think it would have been a bad precedent for VEI to set. I'm willing to swallow these two issues while waiting for what sounds like a great new begining for the series next month.
I understand that these filler issues aren't even up to snuff compared to the series as it's been so far, but just stopping with #10 and not putting anything out for 2-3 months would have been a bad option too. I've heard tons of people here on the boards complaing about other companies not shipping their books on time and going multiple months between issues. I think it would have been a bad precedent for VEI to set. I'm willing to swallow these two issues while waiting for what sounds like a great new begining for the series next month.
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
Just read #12 and thought it was horrible. Really bad short stories. Also, I liked issue #11 better than #12. 11 was just ok to me, while 12 was bad
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
I enjoyed it. Not spectacular but entertaining enough. Good cover stock and cover art.
The first vignette was interesting because well, Jaunty is awesome. But I agree, what lesson was he trying to teach Jack? He asked him twice if he was lost, and Shadowman finally agreed. I got the feeling it was a metaphor for the title itself, and that we'd be seeing Jack try to find himself going forward. And perhaps a request that readers clear their mind a little as we move on.
The second was a little hard to follow for me, but it was a reference to the Soma drug ring we saw back in #7 (?). It also had strong references to "powerful people trying to extend their life and power" which is the basis for the Brethren. I'm guessing they plan on finagling with that theme a little. And yes, it wasn't overly obvious that it ended before the third began but it didn't take but 10 seconds to realize we'd moved onto a new storyline.
The third vignette was a return to the Abettors and a little more reinforcement that Jack would be the mystical detective defending New Orleans, sorting out supernatural occurrences. The cast of characters is expanded and we now know there were other Abettors and hanger-ons from back when Josiah was Shadowman. Looks like maybe he found a friend in Hosho, too.
The last little cartoon was an interesting whimsy. Was that a Mrs. Jaunty?
You guys need to lighten up and give the company some breathing room. They're doing what we asked and revamping the title. Two months of transitional content isn't a surprise to me.
The first vignette was interesting because well, Jaunty is awesome. But I agree, what lesson was he trying to teach Jack? He asked him twice if he was lost, and Shadowman finally agreed. I got the feeling it was a metaphor for the title itself, and that we'd be seeing Jack try to find himself going forward. And perhaps a request that readers clear their mind a little as we move on.
The second was a little hard to follow for me, but it was a reference to the Soma drug ring we saw back in #7 (?). It also had strong references to "powerful people trying to extend their life and power" which is the basis for the Brethren. I'm guessing they plan on finagling with that theme a little. And yes, it wasn't overly obvious that it ended before the third began but it didn't take but 10 seconds to realize we'd moved onto a new storyline.
The third vignette was a return to the Abettors and a little more reinforcement that Jack would be the mystical detective defending New Orleans, sorting out supernatural occurrences. The cast of characters is expanded and we now know there were other Abettors and hanger-ons from back when Josiah was Shadowman. Looks like maybe he found a friend in Hosho, too.
The last little cartoon was an interesting whimsy. Was that a Mrs. Jaunty?

You guys need to lighten up and give the company some breathing room. They're doing what we asked and revamping the title. Two months of transitional content isn't a surprise to me.
Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
Not sure what you want us to do exactly. If we didn't enjoy it should we not say as much? I think everything else they do is good to great, and I say so. This one is falling short in my eyes. We're out here to talk about the books. That's all that's happening here.jmatt wrote:
You guys need to lighten up and give the company some breathing room. They're doing what we asked and revamping the title. Two months of transitional content isn't a surprise to me.
Last edited by tchalla8 on Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
I gotta disagree. These books are $4 a pop, which isn't huge, but still $4. I think one of the problems with the comics industry today is the willingness for fans to suffer through terrible comic books in the hope that they will become good again. I have been guilty of it in the past (YEARS of Flash and Superman titles that I bought just because I always had, knowing full well the stories would be terrible and not even reading the books I bought for months at a time) just as I am now with Shadowman.jmatt wrote:You guys need to lighten up and give the company some breathing room. They're doing what we asked and revamping the title. Two months of transitional content isn't a surprise to me.
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
Was it a home run? No. Was it horrible, no. I liked the first story for a quick glance to the dead side and just for the fact that they haven't made it a happy Eden now that Darque is no longer in the picture. Ie showing there's still a mess that needs cleaning. The second story was refreshing, showing a different perspective on the soma drug. In this format ( vignettes instead of one concurrent story) it really works. The last story wasn't great, however after rereading it, it does give some insight into the tangential characters instead if making them the mindless filler to throw into the book. Overall a 6/10 or 7/10. Far superior to this weeks other release. quantum and Woody
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
I still plan to buy it just to see what Ales Kot did with the character. A couple pages isnt much room to work though.
People should be able to say what they think about the books, good or bad. I think a group of writers and editors may get so deep into the books that they can lose sight of the overall quality. How the book will be received gets lost while they are creating the books. Or maybe it's just an issue of not working far enough ahead to be able to abandon bad ideas.
People should be able to say what they think about the books, good or bad. I think a group of writers and editors may get so deep into the books that they can lose sight of the overall quality. How the book will be received gets lost while they are creating the books. Or maybe it's just an issue of not working far enough ahead to be able to abandon bad ideas.
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
I think it speaks to the previous 11 issues that THIS one is my favourite of the entire series. Even #0, and I LOVED #0.
I found each story enjoyable, and I understood them. Unlike most of the rest of the series, it didn't take a lot of work to understand what's going on. And also unlike the rest of the series, there was a bit of payoff in each.
Looking forward to #13!
I found each story enjoyable, and I understood them. Unlike most of the rest of the series, it didn't take a lot of work to understand what's going on. And also unlike the rest of the series, there was a bit of payoff in each.
Looking forward to #13!
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
My favorite was the 2-page Jaunty story at the end. Looking forward to #13
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
Now that I have actually read the issue, I didn't mind it. It certainly was not any worse than the last arc and, in fact, had better/more consistent art.
The first story was OK because of Jaunty, but that's about it. Did Jack see a dragon because Jaunty called him a dragon earlier? If the stone doesn't actually do anything, why were those people fried around it? Does it create images from your mind? It just confused me.
I actually enjoyed the Soma dealer story the most. It gave a little more insight into the drug, which was rather haphazardly thrown into the second arc without much purpose, and it sets up a potential supporting character down the line should Milligan choose to use him.
The last story was fun, and I liked seeing angry arrogant Jack and getting a little info on the Abettors.
I agree the break between stories 2 and 3 could have been more clearly delineated. It was an easy fix too if the title of the story had just been placed at the end like the other two were.
Overall, it really wasn't that bad and much better than #11 IMHO.
The first story was OK because of Jaunty, but that's about it. Did Jack see a dragon because Jaunty called him a dragon earlier? If the stone doesn't actually do anything, why were those people fried around it? Does it create images from your mind? It just confused me.
I actually enjoyed the Soma dealer story the most. It gave a little more insight into the drug, which was rather haphazardly thrown into the second arc without much purpose, and it sets up a potential supporting character down the line should Milligan choose to use him.
The last story was fun, and I liked seeing angry arrogant Jack and getting a little info on the Abettors.
I agree the break between stories 2 and 3 could have been more clearly delineated. It was an easy fix too if the title of the story had just been placed at the end like the other two were.
Overall, it really wasn't that bad and much better than #11 IMHO.
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
Seriously, this title has had some lows but this anthology issue just threw Monkey feces at me(us).
It's things like this that make me start pulling back from my loyalist ways.
However, next issue is full of alleged greatness....we shall see. This title would be on serious "drop status" watch otherwise.
The new guys have one arc, like Q&W, to prove to me they have broad plans and they need to make that apparent.
Issue #12 lacks....well 95% of everything to tell even one good story in a series of short stories.
It's things like this that make me start pulling back from my loyalist ways.
However, next issue is full of alleged greatness....we shall see. This title would be on serious "drop status" watch otherwise.
The new guys have one arc, like Q&W, to prove to me they have broad plans and they need to make that apparent.
This statement is a huge disconnect to me. #0 is full of depth, myth building with a strong narrative.The Beyonder wrote:I think it speaks to the previous 11 issues that THIS one is my favourite of the entire series. Even #0, and I LOVED #0.
Issue #12 lacks....well 95% of everything to tell even one good story in a series of short stories.
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
Of course not. The company needs honest feedback.tchalla8 wrote:Not sure what you want us to do exactly. If we didn't enjoy it should we not say as much?
My point was that they're transitioning to a new direction and I can understand that they need to fill two months of releases with a little filler while they prepare to take the title in a new direction.
I kinda wondered those same things. Jaunty's line "They surely didn't" was very cool and foreboding... and it meant nothing? But I very much got the sense that this book will be a trio of "First Appearance of..." mendacem stone and Freddy and Hosho.BugsySig wrote:The first story was OK because of Jaunty, but that's about it. Did Jack see a dragon because Jaunty called him a dragon earlier? If the stone doesn't actually do anything, why were those people fried around it? Does it create images from your mind?
In restrospect, I really liked the vignette format. I feel like we arrived at three destinations instead of just one. Kinda forces them to throw decompression to the wind.Aomalle27 wrote:In this format ( vignettes instead of one concurrent story) it really works.
By comparison, Q&W this month could be summed up with: "Woody you're driving me crazy" and "You're working for me now". SM gave ya more to think about this month.
Last edited by jmatt on Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
I hear ya'. But even filler can be high quality. I was just evaluating the "filler"...not judging it because it was "filler".jmatt wrote:Of course not. The company needs honest feedback.tchalla8 wrote:Not sure what you want us to do exactly. If we didn't enjoy it should we not say as much?
My point was that they're transitioning to a new direction and I can understand that they need to fill two months of releases with a little filler while they prepare to take the title in a new direction.
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
I totally agree. Like I said, I LOVED #0! But I loved it mostly for the setup. Until we see more of Darque and his sister, it's just a loose dangling thread, imo.Captain Craig wrote:This statement is a huge disconnect to me. #0 is full of depth, myth building with a strong narrative.The Beyonder wrote:I think it speaks to the previous 11 issues that THIS one is my favourite of the entire series. Even #0, and I LOVED #0.
Issue #12 lacks....well 95% of everything to tell even one good story in a series of short stories.
And I -may- have been exaggerating a bit. #0 IS better, BUT in terms of story payout it's not done yet. Here we got three sequences that had an understandable beginning and ending, which imo isn't something Shadowman has really excelled at in it's first year.
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
I really dug the more street level type stuff in this book. I want to see more of that in Shadowman.
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
I'm not a big fan of short stories in the comic medium. Unless very well done, they usually fall short in content quality. IMO, the first story was the best. You get to see Jack's personality even though he's in Shadowman mode. His confusion and anger are a good setup for what's coming in #13. I only read it once, and I'm not sure if there really is a stone that's keeping Darque's abominations from dying, but my take was that Jaunty was making a point to Jack. The stone was a fake. The charred bodies were real, not due to a mythical stone, but because they went to a spot where Jaunty knew a dragon roosts/visits. It's a kill zone. The trick worked - Jack did admit he felt lost, and he needs to focus to harness and control the loa power.
Story two was definitely a nod to the Soma drug and the guy who didn't die. It seems odd to me to focus on a very minor character if he's not going to be making a reappearance in the main story. Especially since his story didn't really have a conclusion. He had a bad dream or nighttime visit trying to scare him straight. So what? Did it work? They needed to add some credits at the end of the story so readers didn't start on story 3 and think "wait a minute..."
The premise of story 3 isn't bad, but given the length they had to work with, fell flat. Jack is an angry guy, but he came across as an unreasonable *SQUEE*, and Alyssa was worthless. It's good to learn more about abettors, but you'd think he'd be aware of someone using his mojo - there would be some sort of psychic mark or energy drain. The characters all seemed a bit shallow and the conclusion rushed - which is a problem with shorts like these. It would have read better as a full book. It was nice to see how the magics affect the real world. For the most part, we've seen deadside consequences but not so much "real world" repercussions. Kinda wondering what was the point of those portals unless he just wanted to make mischief.
This book was at about the same level as the last one for me. Passable but not great. I'm looking forward to the new creative team - I think this book is going to be really good.
Story two was definitely a nod to the Soma drug and the guy who didn't die. It seems odd to me to focus on a very minor character if he's not going to be making a reappearance in the main story. Especially since his story didn't really have a conclusion. He had a bad dream or nighttime visit trying to scare him straight. So what? Did it work? They needed to add some credits at the end of the story so readers didn't start on story 3 and think "wait a minute..."
The premise of story 3 isn't bad, but given the length they had to work with, fell flat. Jack is an angry guy, but he came across as an unreasonable *SQUEE*, and Alyssa was worthless. It's good to learn more about abettors, but you'd think he'd be aware of someone using his mojo - there would be some sort of psychic mark or energy drain. The characters all seemed a bit shallow and the conclusion rushed - which is a problem with shorts like these. It would have read better as a full book. It was nice to see how the magics affect the real world. For the most part, we've seen deadside consequences but not so much "real world" repercussions. Kinda wondering what was the point of those portals unless he just wanted to make mischief.
This book was at about the same level as the last one for me. Passable but not great. I'm looking forward to the new creative team - I think this book is going to be really good.
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Re: Shadowman #12 discussion
I'm not sure what you guys mean about last month. There was no Shadowman last month. I'm still trying to figure out why they messed up their numbering.
Seriously though, this one wasn't bad. It wasn't great, but I liked it okay.
I thought each story was pretty cool. For some reason the second story reminded me of the tone of the Witch Hunter Robin anime, which I loved.
I agree, the split between 2 and 3 was confusing. I actually skipped back and forth to make sure I hadn't missed a page.
Seriously though, this one wasn't bad. It wasn't great, but I liked it okay.
I thought each story was pretty cool. For some reason the second story reminded me of the tone of the Witch Hunter Robin anime, which I loved.
I agree, the split between 2 and 3 was confusing. I actually skipped back and forth to make sure I hadn't missed a page.
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