X-O Manowar #17 Discussion

[apainter]

This issue wasn't as heavy a read as the other books this week, but I enjoyed it. I like that the powers-that-be have no idea who or what they're dealing with. It doesn't seem like Col. Capshaw knows Alexander is Vine. (I'm waiting for a first meeting between Alexander and Col Capshaw's trusted underling, Corporal Sven. I'm assuming that's the same Sven Alexander appealed to in the Planet Death prelude.)

One thing I want to see is some indication of what the slaves are speaking. During Planet Death, Aric indicated they were speaking Visigotti(?) with some other languages mixed in. But in this issue, when Saana listened to Aric and Alexander, she said she didn't know what a CEO was. This seems to indicate she understood most of what he said, just not the CEO part. Has Aric been teaching Saana English somehow? Is she able to pick up knowledge through her... um, close physical contact with Aric? (Sort of like a benevolent STD, I guess.) It might be considered old fashioned, but I wish we had the dialogue in angle brackets and a caption to indicate when and what language they're speaking.

Vditti may be getting to this with those guys in the HAZMAT suits, but I don't expect the Visigoths to remain healthy for too long. Think of all the diseases they may be carrying, and the 1600 years worth of viruses and germs that they've never been inoculated against.

Art

[Captain Craig]

With Aric and his returned Dacians(sp) now parked firmly for a few days(weeks?) in the Romanian park and going about life we get visions of Aric's past back in 600 A.D.
A sense of familiarity has set in and we are witnessing his boyhood mother&father and lessons they placed into him.

Meanwhile some of the Dacians don't feel like they should have to be toiling away in the fields. One asks another if this hard work is what freedom should feel like, that they actually had easier labor on the Loam ship. I honestly can't tell if a historical parallel is being made here with the Israelites who complained to Moses after wandering in the desert that life in Egypt was better OR they are making a modern day political statement. People who are free are not free loaders, or shouldn't be but society has encouraged that the last few decades. So a pair run off together, Volo and I forget, and find their way out of the park(never mind you'd think it would be cordoned off but anyway) and into the city. There they stumble upon a grocery store full of the food they are toiling away at tending in the park. Stealing the food and bringing it back to the Dacians, a proclamation of "true leadership" is made? Hmmmm, so stealing and re-distributing another's wealth(food) is leadership? Gotcha. Again, I can't help but see political thoughts at play in the background. Not the first time this has happened in new VALIANT---early Archer&Armstrong springs instantly to mind.
I think Volo is coming to some inaccurate assumptions if he still thinks himself a slave. True, Aric is set up as a King and his mindset is very 7th century but he does see the people he freed as kin. I also find it a bit odd that there'd be a black Dacian at all really. From a historical perspective, Vikings, Visigoths and Nordic peoples were white through and through. Again, are we making political commentary?

Alexander returns on the scene offering to broker a truce for Aric, who sees no reason to do so, as he's won the way he sees it. Truce?

This issue felt like a calm before the storm and is probably one of the tamer issues of the series to date. I expect next issue to ramp back up but it is good for a warrior to relish in his perceived victory so for that the story makes sense.

[Donovan]

Meanwhile some of the Dacians don't feel like they should have to be toiling away in the fields. One asks another if this hard work is what freedom should feel like, that they actually had easier labor on the Loam ship. I honestly can't tell if a historical parallel is being made here with the Israelites who complained to Moses after wandering in the desert that life in Egypt was better OR they are making a modern day political statement. People who are free are not free loaders, or shouldn't be but society has encouraged that the last few decades. So a pair run off together, Volo and I forget, and find their way out of the park(never mind you'd think it would be cordoned off but anyway) and into the city. There they stumble upon a grocery store full of the food they are toiling away at tending in the park. Stealing the food and bringing it back to the Dacians, a proclamation of "true leadership" is made? Hmmmm, so stealing and re-distributing another's wealth(food) is leadership? Gotcha. Again, I can't help but see political thoughts at play in the background.

I think it's more that Volo is envious of the fact that he used to be leader (I think this was stated, I don't have the book in front of me). Rather than read it as a political statement, I see his actions more as that of a jealous man.

Sounds like I'm alone in my opinon here!

[Phoenix8008]

I haven't gotten X-O #16 yet, but I enjoyed this issue anyway. I loved getting a little slow down from the action and working in some more character development time. Good to see Aric getting a breather ( and some heavy breathing or so it seems!).

I though the sub-plot of Volo going to raid the Supermarket was cool. We'll see some repurcusions from that soon I bet. Also good to see Dorian back involved in the story. Loved the flashback with Aric as a young boy. Again reinforcing the mythical vision he had of Dacia, not the fact since he was never there. He's trying to shape reality to fit an idealized vision, and he doesn't know yet what forces are coming against him or how the world around him thinks. Very dangerous situation brewing. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets ALL the Visigoths killed by a nuke that gets dropped on him. Maybe he'll be able to save his girlfriend inside the armor with him, but probably not much more than that.

He is so focused on the whole "Might makes Right" idea, that he doesn't comprehend all the consequenses and doesn't think there's any possibility of any outcome besides what he desires. He's in for a rude awakening in Unity I fear. I'm actually already feeling a little sorry for him concerning the hard times he's sure to suffer due to his lack of wisdom. Maybe after that he'll wise up and realize he needs to at least understand the modern world, even if he chooses to not change his mindset much.

[blujay]

Great issue, very fun bits with the disgruntled Visigoths. I really can't wait to see more of Alexander.

[jmatt]

I also find it a bit odd that there'd be a black Dacian at all really.

Yeah, that left me scratching my head, too.

[hunter_peterson]

I also find it a bit odd that there'd be a black Dacian at all really.

Yeah, that left me scratching my head, too.

Yeah, it really is weird that the Vine humans are identifying with Aric as Visigoths- they came from all around the world and it doesn't make sense they would lose everything from all those cultures but Visigoths. Maybe the fact that these people aren't Visigoths at all will be brought up? They're just generic humans with roots from the whole planet, after all... not one narrow ethnicity. Bit weird, that.

[Dallow Spicer1]

I also find it a bit odd that there'd be a black Dacian at all really.

Yeah, that left me scratching my head, too.

Yeah, it really is weird that the Vine humans are identifying with Aric as Visigoths- they came from all around the world and it doesn't make sense they would lose everything from all those cultures but Visigoths. Maybe the fact that these people aren't Visigoths at all will be brought up? They're just generic humans with roots from the whole planet, after all... not one narrow ethnicity. Bit weird, that.

I think this is explained fairly easily, think back to when Aric was on board the Vine ship as a slave, there were people with him from around the globe (African, Mongolian etc), it's plausible (and likely) to suggest that if the majority of slaves were from Dacia then people from other countries would integrate into that society.

[Dallow Spicer1]

I disagree, and I thought that the scene where Volo and the other guy realize that they're still slaves was the best part of the book. I thought V-ditti set that up really nicely.

Yeah, but they're not slaves. Slaves are forced to work to fill another man's pocket. Free people work to fill their own pocket. Aric didn't threaten them in order for them to work, they're working because they want to fill their own bellies.

I think the point is that Volo and the other guy were making the comparison that their life hasn't essentially changed much since being freed. Presumably they've been slaves all of their lives so have yet to understand their new circumstances?

I really enjoyed this issue and am not sure why there is a little negativity around it? You can't have endless fight scenes each issue as it becomes tedious. This issue adds layers and characterisation to the series which is better in the long term. Great art from Lee Garbett (maybe his best on XO)!

4/5 Excellent stuff!

[Blood of Heroes]

I also find it a bit odd that there'd be a black Dacian at all really.

Yeah, that left me scratching my head, too.

RACIST!!!

[jmatt]

Yeah, it really is weird that the Vine humans are identifying with Aric as Visigoths- they came from all around the world ...

I dunno. Didn't we hear the cleric say those were specifically Aric's people, ie Visigoths?

[jmatt]

... not sure why there is a little negativity around it?

I'm not seeing much negativity, pretty much everyone in this thread said they enjoyed the book. Two people said they thought it read faster than the other releases for the week.

Other than that, just regular old book talk with people trying to clarify minor aspects. "I didn't understand" doesn't mean "I didn't like".

[Peter]

Yes free will is much like curiosity, it can lead you into trouble.

I enjoyed this issue as usual and it seems a natural progression is occurring with the freed slaves, why work toil and wait, when there may be an easier way, after all they don't have their own culture to fall back on, just the culture of survival being a slave, like children needing guidance.

It does seem a little unusual that Aric would insist on doing things the old ways, but then that is the only way he knows, even though he has been introduced to modern world, he really has seen only a glimpse of it, and it will take a while before he can truly understand all the machinations of the this world.

I guess he his only trying to protect his people from exposure to the modern world and carve out their own little niche.
It definitely isn't going to end well, but it will be interesting to see Aric finally come to grips with the fact that the old world is gone forever, and he will have to adapt to survive himself.

Loving this series and hope they take a while to flesh this out more. I would hate to see Aric become worldwise too quickly.

[hunter_peterson]

Yeah, it really is weird that the Vine humans are identifying with Aric as Visigoths- they came from all around the world ...

I dunno. Didn't we hear the cleric say those were specifically Aric's people, ie Visigoths?

I don't think the Vine really pause to think about nationalities when dealing with alien races. I would think he meant "humans". We've seen no evidence tha they're culturally or ethnically Visigoth in any way, which makes perfect sense; they were sent to work camps and stripped of any identity beyond Human Slave. Sure, a few symbols carried through the generations that are tied to Visigoth culture, but they didn't seem to particularly understand it much.

So yeah... I think Aric will soon find that his dream for a Vsigoth homeland is pointless for a variety of reasons. Chief being that these people are more different from him than he assumes and that he doesn't seem capable of providing what they need, just what he wants. Hopefully they don't all get blown up for that to happen...

[jmatt]

Sure, a few symbols carried through the generations that are tied to Visigoth culture, but they didn't seem to particularly understand it much.

I'd have to go back and look but I recall there being a lot of talk about the garment with his Uncle's standard on it and traditional Visigoth death pyres, etc -- and pretty much no talk of the group being an amalgamation of the Earth's tribes. But maybe it's just me.

[hunter_peterson]

Sure, a few symbols carried through the generations that are tied to Visigoth culture, but they didn't seem to particularly understand it much.

I'd have to go back and look but I recall there being a lot of talk about the garment with his Uncle's standard on it and traditional Visigoth death pyres, etc -- and pretty much no talk of the group being an amalgamation of the Earth's tribes. But maybe it's just me.

If I remember correctly, that was all Aric. He sees the symbol, says it's his uncle's standard, then later burns someone on a pyre because he decides that's what to do. Whereas while he's on the Vine ship he sees that everyone is from differing cultures- on Loam he decides that they're all Visigoths, even though they've been there for generations. He doesn't really ASK...

[BugsySig]

Sure, a few symbols carried through the generations that are tied to Visigoth culture, but they didn't seem to particularly understand it much.

I'd have to go back and look but I recall there being a lot of talk about the garment with his Uncle's standard on it and traditional Visigoth death pyres, etc -- and pretty much no talk of the group being an amalgamation of the Earth's tribes. But maybe it's just me.

If I remember correctly, that was all Aric. He sees the symbol, says it's his uncle's standard, then later burns someone on a pyre because he decides that's what to do. Whereas while he's on the Vine ship he sees that everyone is from differing cultures- on Loam he decides that they're all Visigoths, even though they've been there for generations. He doesn't really ASK...

In fairness, its the Priest who tells him these are the last of "his people" and I believe he even calls them Visigoths.

I would say this group likely descended from primarily Visigoths, while some other tribes/cultures were mixed in. The groups of slaves were mixed up and moved around, probably much in the same way as the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. I remember seeing some slaves on Loam who looked Asian and Black.

Also, its not unheard of that people from North Africa and the Middle East were in the Roman Empire at the time Aric was captured.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

I actually enjoyed this issue more than the 2-part Eternal Warrior crossover. It felt like the last two issues were leaning too heavily on Gilad instead of giving us a proper story; this issue is much better.

As for the ethnicity thing, I remember way back when they were planning the rebellion aboard the Vine ship (in issue 2 I think) there were slaves who didn't speak the same language as the Visigoths, so the Vine were definitely picking up people from all over the world. I can't explain why he didn't take any of the aliens, though. I'm guessing that Aric wants to settle down and lord over his little kingdom like he's still in the 5th century. The Visigoths would have had contact with people from other ethnic groups so that's no big deal, but having aliens would serve as a constant reminder that he's not really in the 400's.

[hunter_peterson]

Sure, a few symbols carried through the generations that are tied to Visigoth culture, but they didn't seem to particularly understand it much.

I'd have to go back and look but I recall there being a lot of talk about the garment with his Uncle's standard on it and traditional Visigoth death pyres, etc -- and pretty much no talk of the group being an amalgamation of the Earth's tribes. But maybe it's just me.

If I remember correctly, that was all Aric. He sees the symbol, says it's his uncle's standard, then later burns someone on a pyre because he decides that's what to do. Whereas while he's on the Vine ship he sees that everyone is from differing cultures- on Loam he decides that they're all Visigoths, even though they've been there for generations. He doesn't really ASK...

In fairness, its the Priest who tells him these are the last of "his people" and I believe he even calls them Visigoths.

I would say this group likely descended from primarily Visigoths, while some other tribes/cultures were mixed in. The groups of slaves were mixed up and moved around, probably much in the same way as the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. I remember seeing some slaves on Loam who looked Asian and Black.

Also, its not unheard of that people from North Africa and the Middle East were in the Roman Empire at the time Aric was captured.

Yeah, good points. I'm maybe getting hung up on the captives with Aric all being from around the world. Maybe the Visigoths were the ones who got brought to Loam more than the others, who just worked on ships? I'd appreciate clarity, but don't really mind.

[String]

Yes free will is much like curiosity, it can lead you into trouble.

I enjoyed this issue as usual and it seems a natural progression is occurring with the freed slaves, why work toil and wait, when there may be an easier way, after all they don't have their own culture to fall back on, just the culture of survival being a slave, like children needing guidance.

It does seem a little unusual that Aric would insist on doing things the old ways, but then that is the only way he knows, even though he has been introduced to modern world, he really has seen only a glimpse of it, and it will take a while before he can truly understand all the machinations of the this world.

I guess he his only trying to protect his people from exposure to the modern world and carve out their own little niche.
It definitely isn't going to end well, but it will be interesting to see Aric finally come to grips with the fact that the old world is gone forever, and he will have to adapt to survive himself.

Loving this series and hope they take a while to flesh this out more. I would hate to see Aric become worldwise too quickly.

This is summed up perfectly by Aric's answer to the query of what is a CEO, "I never cared enough to ask."

His inability (so far) to learn and adapt to the modern world may aid with any potential rebellion within the people. He seems so set and determined to reclaim his ancestral homeland and rebuild their lives, he overlooks the progress and advances modern society offers that would help his people thrive better. In a way, you can't fault him for that, that is the only way he's ever known to live and survive, but as a warrior and tactician, it seems folly to not learn of your surroundings for any possible advantages.

One question I have is, how the hell did they manage to steal two whole shopping cart loads of food?
No police, no chase, the only response being Tammus' abduction by gov't forces (and how did they know they were at the market anyway? Were they observing the Visigoth in case some wandered off like Volo did?)

Loved the flashback scenes, Aric (as a child) was creating the idealized version of Dacia from his father's stories, which was reflected nicely in the art; at the beginning, trees and other foliage were seen throughout the land but at the end, the land was barren (a reflection of the Hun invasion perhaps?)

Terrific issue, as Aric begins to have trouble from both within and without.

[lorddunlow]

Why can't Volo be black?

So, I finally bit the bullet and read this issue. I actually liked it more than any issue of X-O since the Planet Death prelude. The flashback scene was so good. So there IS more to Aric than a dumb meathead arrogant *SQUEE* bag. Hopefully we'll see some of that in adult Aric eventually - probably not until after he gets his *SQUEE* handed to him by Harada et al in Unity, though.

I just don't get why this is the favorite book of a lot of people. It's definitely my least favorite. Also, how is this the lynchpin of the VEI universe? Every single title (except Shadowman) seems much more interconnected than this one. If I do eventually drop a VEI title, this will be number one on my chopping block. I don't think I would miss out on much of the VEI universe if I dropped this. Apparently X-O is just going to be a retelling of story that will be told in Unity for the next arc, so I can't imagine I'll start enjoying this title more any time soon. I know I'm in the minority, but this title just doesn't float my boat which is very strange as X-O was actually my second favorite title when I was reading in the 90s.

[leonmallett]

I have been enjoying the post-Planet Death stuff far more than the Planet Death arc, and this issue was pretty good I thought. While there was a lot of 'world-building' to Aric's past through the series, until the last arc and this one, there has not been the same sense of world-building in his present; and it may be that the pieces were there, but finally they are starting to join up (and maybe other readers spotted that much before I did! )

I honestly think Aric needs a sense of stable location for a while, and I hope we are seeing growth towards that.

[krylox]

Why can't Volo be black?

So, I finally bit the bullet and read this issue. I actually liked it more than any issue of X-O since the Planet Death prelude. The flashback scene was so good. So there IS more to Aric than a dumb meathead arrogant *SQUEE* bag. Hopefully we'll see some of that in adult Aric eventually - probably not until after he gets his *SQUEE* handed to him by Harada et al in Unity, though.

I just don't get why this is the favorite book of a lot of people. It's definitely my least favorite. Also, how is this the lynchpin of the VEI universe? Every single title (except Shadowman) seems much more interconnected than this one. If I do eventually drop a VEI title, this will be number one on my chopping block. I don't think I would miss out on much of the VEI universe if I dropped this. Apparently X-O is just going to be a retelling of story that will be told in Unity for the next arc, so I can't imagine I'll start enjoying this title more any time soon. I know I'm in the minority, but this title just doesn't float my boat which is very strange as X-O was actually my second favorite title when I was reading in the 90s.

i was on and off with this title since the beginning, dropping it four or five issues in, and re-picking it up with the new arc beginning in issue 14. but i'm afraid, this issue has done it for me. pretty much nothing happens the third issue in a row. i guess it's supposed to be about character developing, but when the character is a *SQUEE*, bland and rather sub-intelligent one-dimensional dude, who cares? and then the whole dacia/romania thing. you see, i'm originally from romania and was very excited to see how this would play with aric's return and everything. but really, it's just not showing/happening. they're just on a field all the time, could be anywhere.

well... given that it has it's fans, i guess the book's just not for my tastes.
1,5/5

[BugsySig]

Why can't Volo be black?

So, I finally bit the bullet and read this issue. I actually liked it more than any issue of X-O since the Planet Death prelude. The flashback scene was so good. So there IS more to Aric than a dumb meathead arrogant *SQUEE* bag. Hopefully we'll see some of that in adult Aric eventually - probably not until after he gets his *SQUEE* handed to him by Harada et al in Unity, though.

I just don't get why this is the favorite book of a lot of people. It's definitely my least favorite. Also, how is this the lynchpin of the VEI universe? Every single title (except Shadowman) seems much more interconnected than this one. If I do eventually drop a VEI title, this will be number one on my chopping block. I don't think I would miss out on much of the VEI universe if I dropped this. Apparently X-O is just going to be a retelling of story that will be told in Unity for the next arc, so I can't imagine I'll start enjoying this title more any time soon. I know I'm in the minority, but this title just doesn't float my boat which is very strange as X-O was actually my second favorite title when I was reading in the 90s.

No one cares what you think dunlow!