Bloodshot #0 Discussion

[Baramos]

We also have to take the Bleeding Monk into consideration when thinking about blood that lets you live forever, heh...

...how in the world do people get by only reading one Valiant series?! It boggles my mind.

[greg]

We also have to take the Bleeding Monk into consideration when thinking about blood that lets you live forever, heh...

True, but I don't want to think about him and Mary Maria... together.

[bygranddesign]

One thing I wondered: it seemed like the way he created a "soul" for Bloodshot is that Bloodshot absorbs the information of whoever he encounters, or maybe whoever he kills? If so, the scientist who created the soul could now be part of Bloodshot's personality and that's what finally allowed him to develop a conscience. Or maybe he meant that Bloodshot absorbs the personality of the body they use to make him? I was a bit confused.

That's what I'm wondering as well.

If he killed the scientist at the end, he would have all the scientists's memories and the scientists's "soul".

It would be the first time he was "programmed" with more than just a soldier's thoughts and memories.

If he didn't kill the scientist at the end, then the first "soul" he acquired would have actually made a difference.

The near-dead soldiers were being used for bloodshot

The nanites would consume the near dead soldier and Bloodshot is born. That has been happening again and again for decades.

The scientist in issue #0 was re-programming the nanites to not only take over the body of the near dead soldier but to capture the soul ... I don't think he had a say in who was to be the next Bloodshot

And like he said in the issue - he didn't care about that

All he wanted was for Bloodshot to retain a soul

My feeling is that a soul is just energy. Energy that allows you to feel and perceive, love, hate and reason.

When Bloodshot awoke from the nanite bath - I think of it like a BLANK SLATE

His soul was a BLANK SLATE and at that point it didn't really know RIGHT from WRONG

It KILLED the scientist because it was told to ... It was like a new born baby. It didn't understand, it was programmed to kill and thats what it did.

It takes many years for us as HUMANS to figure out right from wrong.

To understand empathy and forgiveness and all those things that make us human.

In 2012, Bloodshot started reaching adulthood ... Its starting to understand now what is right and wrong.

This is about Bloodshot evolving due to having a soul...

[BugsySig]

One thing I wondered: it seemed like the way he created a "soul" for Bloodshot is that Bloodshot absorbs the information of whoever he encounters, or maybe whoever he kills? If so, the scientist who created the soul could now be part of Bloodshot's personality and that's what finally allowed him to develop a conscience. Or maybe he meant that Bloodshot absorbs the personality of the body they use to make him? I was a bit confused.

That's what I'm wondering as well.

If he killed the scientist at the end, he would have all the scientists's memories and the scientists's "soul".

It would be the first time he was "programmed" with more than just a soldier's thoughts and memories.

If he didn't kill the scientist at the end, then the first "soul" he acquired would have actually made a difference.

The near-dead soldiers were being used for bloodshot

The nanites would consume the near dead soldier and Bloodshot is born. That has been happening again and again for decades.

The scientist in issue #0 was re-programming the nanites to not only take over the body of the near dead soldier but to capture the soul ... I don't think he had a say in who was to be the next Bloodshot

And like he said in the issue - he didn't care about that

All he wanted was for Bloodshot to retain a soul

My feeling is that a soul is just energy. Energy that allows you to feel and perceive, love, hate and reason.

When Bloodshot awoke from the nanite bath - I think of it like a BLANK SLATE

His soul was a BLANK SLATE and at that point it didn't really know RIGHT from WRONG

It KILLED the scientist because it was told to ... It was like a new born baby. It didn't understand, it was programmed to kill and thats what it did.

It takes many years for us as HUMANS to figure out right from wrong.

To understand empathy and forgiveness and all those things that make us human.

In 2012, Bloodshot started reaching adulthood ... Its starting to understand now what is right and wrong.

This is about Bloodshot evolving due to having a soul...

Good breakdown. Makes a lot of sense to me. I'm not a 100% sure that is the case, as perhaps the current Bloodshot is a different version, but Id be fine with it if it was

[bygranddesign]

The near-dead soldiers were being used for bloodshot

The nanites would consume the near dead soldier and Bloodshot is born. That has been happening again and again for decades.

The scientist in issue #0 was re-programming the nanites to not only take over the body of the near dead soldier but to capture the soul ... I don't think he had a say in who was to be the next Bloodshot

And like he said in the issue - he didn't care about that

All he wanted was for Bloodshot to retain a soul

My feeling is that a soul is just energy. Energy that allows you to feel and perceive, love, hate and reason.

When Bloodshot awoke from the nanite bath - I think of it like a BLANK SLATE

His soul was a BLANK SLATE and at that point it didn't really know RIGHT from WRONG

It KILLED the scientist because it was told to ... It was like a new born baby. It didn't understand, it was programmed to kill and thats what it did.

It takes many years for us as HUMANS to figure out right from wrong.

To understand empathy and forgiveness and all those things that make us human.

In 2012, Bloodshot started reaching adulthood ... Its starting to understand now what is right and wrong.

This is about Bloodshot evolving due to having a soul...

Good breakdown. Makes a lot of sense to me. I'm not a 100% sure that is the case, as perhaps the current Bloodshot is a different version, but Id be fine with it if it was

Cool. Thanks.

I think this is an origin with A LOT going on ... and obviously allows for a lot of great speculation and theories.

This current bloodshot coming from a different dying soldier is definitely a possibility also, IMO. Whats not clear to me is why they swap out the body so much? It could be because the host body becomes so damaged that not even the nanites can repair itself - and that would definitely present the need for a new host. Or maybe Bloodshot's have a limited life span? All the re-programming makes the brain swiss cheese and they have to replace it with a FRESH HOST.

The 2nd thing that is not clear to me ...is whether they then use the same blood infused nanites for the new host?

I'm guessing they do.

So the re-programmed soul grabbing nanites would still be in the mix if the 1993 Bloodshot was replaced with a new one 5-10 years later. So the theory would still hold that the nanites would be learning RIGHT from WRONG even when it enters a new host. The nanites are what capture the soul.

It gets confusing cause multiple things are going on
1) Bloodshots are created from dying soldiers multiple times through the decades
2) Bloodshot is re-programmed over and over again and implanted with false memories of REAL dying soldiers
3) Scientist re-programs nanites to capture soul of the dying soldier who becomes Bloodshot

I think the importance of this issue was to show why Bloodshot and the nanites "Goldies" eventually rebelled against its programming and fought back against P.R.S. in that first arc.

It all came back to what this scientist did when he re-programmed the nanites in 1992

it might not have had the desired effect in 1992 ... but Bloodshot/The nanites are finally evolving and becoming its OWN person ... and not just a mindless killing machine.

[BugsySig]

The near-dead soldiers were being used for bloodshot

The nanites would consume the near dead soldier and Bloodshot is born. That has been happening again and again for decades.

The scientist in issue #0 was re-programming the nanites to not only take over the body of the near dead soldier but to capture the soul ... I don't think he had a say in who was to be the next Bloodshot

And like he said in the issue - he didn't care about that

All he wanted was for Bloodshot to retain a soul

My feeling is that a soul is just energy. Energy that allows you to feel and perceive, love, hate and reason.

When Bloodshot awoke from the nanite bath - I think of it like a BLANK SLATE

His soul was a BLANK SLATE and at that point it didn't really know RIGHT from WRONG

It KILLED the scientist because it was told to ... It was like a new born baby. It didn't understand, it was programmed to kill and thats what it did.

It takes many years for us as HUMANS to figure out right from wrong.

To understand empathy and forgiveness and all those things that make us human.

In 2012, Bloodshot started reaching adulthood ... Its starting to understand now what is right and wrong.

This is about Bloodshot evolving due to having a soul...

Good breakdown. Makes a lot of sense to me. I'm not a 100% sure that is the case, as perhaps the current Bloodshot is a different version, but Id be fine with it if it was

Cool. Thanks.

I think this is an origin with A LOT going on ... and obviously allows for a lot of great speculation and theories.

This current bloodshot coming from a different dying soldier is definitely a possibility also, IMO. Whats not clear to me is why they swap out the body so much? It could be because the host body becomes so damaged that not even the nanites can repair itself - and that would definitely present the need for a new host. Or maybe Bloodshot's have a limited life span? All the re-programming makes the brain swiss cheese and they have to replace it with a FRESH HOST.

The 2nd thing that is not clear to me ...is whether they then use the same blood infused nanites for the new host?

I'm guessing they do.

So the re-programmed soul grabbing nanites would still be in the mix if the 1993 Bloodshot was replaced with a new one 5-10 years later. So the theory would still hold that the nanites would be learning RIGHT from WRONG even when it enters a new host. The nanites are what capture the soul.

It gets confusing cause multiple things are going on
1) Bloodshots are created from dying soldiers multiple times through the decades
2) Bloodshot is re-programmed over and over again and implanted with false memories of REAL dying soldiers
3) Scientist re-programs nanites to capture soul of the dying soldier who becomes Bloodshot

I think the importance of this issue was to show why Bloodshot and the nanites "Goldies" eventually rebelled against its programming and fought back against P.R.S. in that first arc.

It all came back to what this scientist did when he re-programmed the nanites in 1992

it might not have had the desired effect in 1992 ... but Bloodshot/The nanites are finally evolving and becoming its OWN person ... and not just a mindless killing machine.

So I'm trying to tie the events of #0 into the events of #1, in order to explain Bloodshot's actions...

When Kuretich uploads/releases all the memories into Bloodshot, could that have been the trigger to activate the Nanites "soul"?

While they were holding one set of memories the Nanites/Bloodshot were tricked into thinking that's who they were. But once all the memories were released at once, the Nanites were forced to reassess their purpose and being, thus activating their "soul".

The Goldie Boy referred to it as becoming "self-aware". Prior to Kuretich's actions, the Nanites were not self-aware, they were only aware of their program.

[jmatt]

Bloodshot absorbs the information of whoever he encounters, or maybe whoever he kills?

That's not how it read to me. The nanites absorb the soul of the dying host.

[BugsySig]

Bloodshot absorbs the information of whoever he encounters, or maybe whoever he kills?

That's not how it read to me. The nanites absorb the soul of the dying host.

I agreed originally, but what if the scientists programming evolved beyond that to the constant absorption of data?

[erwinrafael]

Bloodshot absorbs the information of whoever he encounters, or maybe whoever he kills?

That's not how it read to me. The nanites absorb the soul of the dying host.

that's how i read it as well. which is why the nanites were programmed to move faster, to capture the soul before it disappears.

[jmatt]

Bloodshot absorbs the information of whoever he encounters, or maybe whoever he kills?

That's not how it read to me. The nanites absorb the soul of the dying host.

I agreed originally, but what if the scientists programming evolved beyond that to the constant absorption of data?

I can't believe that they are suggesting the Bloodshot is an amalgamation of all his victims. Then he's not anybody. And we've seen no evidence of that in any of the other issues.

I got the sense they were saying the nanites had to be within the host in order to absorb the soul.

[jmatt]

Bloodshot absorbs the information of whoever he encounters, or maybe whoever he kills?

That's not how it read to me. The nanites absorb the soul of the dying host.

that's how i read it as well. which is why the nanites were programmed to move faster, to capture the soul before it disappears.

And the scientist mentioned achieving "greater coverage" throughout the body in order to do so. They had to be within a cell's breadth of the dying soul to catch it.

[erwinrafael]

Bloodshot absorbs the information of whoever he encounters, or maybe whoever he kills?

That's not how it read to me. The nanites absorb the soul of the dying host.

that's how i read it as well. which is why the nanites were programmed to move faster, to capture the soul before it disappears.

And the scientist mentioned achieving "greater coverage" throughout the body in order to do so. They had to be within a cell's breadth of the dying soul to catch it.

I hope they would tie up with Maturana and Varela's concept of autopoeisis. Better if Niklas Luhmann's version. I also like how they seem to be working on the concept of consciousness / mind - a soul - that is not tied up with the brain alone.

[lorddunlow]

So, my only problem with the whole issue (which I loved) is the issue of why the multiple hosts have been needed. Obviously the current incarnation of Bloodshot is nearly indestructible, and he is probably more cow protein now than any of his original hosts (as far as his actual protein composition is concerned).

I'm actually questioning at this point whether the actual body is the important part at this point in his development. The scene that makes me wonder this is the one with the legless soldier and the "21 grams" observation. He's not in a vat of nanites like at the end, and no Bloodshot rises up after that that looks like that guy. I also sort of don't think the Bloodshot at the end looks much like the guy that gave his soul. I really think the bodies are just templates. They are scanned by the nanite collective and that information is transmitted to the whole to be used for further evolution - probably more faces to change into, more fighting techniques, variations on body chemistry - adaptation, essentially. The "soul" of the last guy was "scanned" and the information was incorporated into the nanites.

It makes sense, even if the bodies are consumed by the nanites and used to make a new Bloodshot. I mean, he's not becoming cow-like and how many of those have we seen him eat? I really think that PRS started with reanimation of cadavers with nanotechnology, but as the technology evolved (both figuratively and literally) the nanites themselves became a sentient organism. That organism was amoral and therefore followed programming with no thought of collateral damage. The scientist gave him a conscience, which ultimately has led him to have a free will (with the help of Kuretich).

[bygranddesign]

So I'm trying to tie the events of #0 into the events of #1, in order to explain Bloodshot's actions...

When Kuretich uploads/releases all the memories into Bloodshot, could that have been the trigger to activate the Nanites "soul"?

While they were holding one set of memories the Nanites/Bloodshot were tricked into thinking that's who they were. But once all the memories were released at once, the Nanites were forced to reassess their purpose and being, thus activating their "soul".

The Goldie Boy referred to it as becoming "self-aware". Prior to Kuretich's actions, the Nanites were not self-aware, they were only aware of their program.

Yeah, I agree. I could definitely see how what Kuretich did made the nanites self aware and want to rebel against PRS and being re-programmed.

[bygranddesign]

So, my only problem with the whole issue (which I loved) is the issue of why the multiple hosts have been needed. Obviously the current incarnation of Bloodshot is nearly indestructible, and he is probably more cow protein now than any of his original hosts (as far as his actual protein composition is concerned).

I'm actually questioning at this point whether the actual body is the important part at this point in his development. The scene that makes me wonder this is the one with the legless soldier and the "21 grams" observation. He's not in a vat of nanites like at the end, and no Bloodshot rises up after that that looks like that guy. I also sort of don't think the Bloodshot at the end looks much like the guy that gave his soul. I really think the bodies are just templates. They are scanned by the nanite collective and that information is transmitted to the whole to be used for further evolution - probably more faces to change into, more fighting techniques, variations on body chemistry - adaptation, essentially. The "soul" of the last guy was "scanned" and the information was incorporated into the nanites.

It makes sense, even if the bodies are consumed by the nanites and used to make a new Bloodshot. I mean, he's not becoming cow-like and how many of those have we seen him eat? I really think that PRS started with reanimation of cadavers with nanotechnology, but as the technology evolved (both figuratively and literally) the nanites themselves became a sentient organism. That organism was amoral and therefore followed programming with no thought of collateral damage. The scientist gave him a conscience, which ultimately has led him to have a free will (with the help of Kuretich).

great post.

I think the multiple hosts question is not clear to me also. Like you said - Bloodshot can re-generate brain tissue and its nearly indestructible.

My initial thoughts on this was that perhaps all the false memories eventually corrupts the host and they need a new host body to start anew.

Maybe that could be part of it ... but I think what you said about them experimenting with dead bodies until moving on to soldiers about to die answers part of it also.

Its also not clear to me whether Bloodshot needs to be sidelined when the scientist is re-programming the nanites to swarm faster. We know that bloodshot is connected to the nanite infused blood wherever it goes ... when it is inside Harada and inside the PRS mainframe. I wish I understood the process of changing Hosts. When the nanites swarmed the dying soldier who was an amputee did it capture his soul also? Did Bloodshot if he was around then at the same time sense that the nanites were being re-programmed? And could there be only one human host to the nanites? Why can't there be multiple bloodshots all connected through the nanites?

[lorddunlow]

Its also not clear to me whether Bloodshot needs to be sidelined when the scientist is re-programming the nanites to swarm faster. We know that bloodshot is connected to the nanite infused blood wherever it goes ... when it is inside Harada and inside the PRS mainframe. I wish I understood the process of changing Hosts. When the nanites swarmed the dying soldier who was an amputee did it capture his soul also? Did Bloodshot if he was around then at the same time sense that the nanites were being re-programmed? And could there be only one human host to the nanites? Why can't there be multiple bloodshots all connected through the nanites?

This is definitely the biggest problem I have with the current explanation of Bloodshot. If the nanites work as a collective and they can regenerate, then why hasn't PRS created an army of Bloodshots? Why can't Bloodshot cut himself in half and have someone feed the halves food until there are two of him? This needs to be answered more than anything. There must be some reason behind there only being one active Bloodshot at a time. Again, I will stress that both Rees and the general never said "them" when talking about the previous incarnations of Bloodshot. Not "it" or "them", only "he".

As for the legless soldier, Rees made a point to state the nanites weren't swarming fast enough to capture his "soul".

[bygranddesign]

Its also not clear to me whether Bloodshot needs to be sidelined when the scientist is re-programming the nanites to swarm faster. We know that bloodshot is connected to the nanite infused blood wherever it goes ... when it is inside Harada and inside the PRS mainframe. I wish I understood the process of changing Hosts. When the nanites swarmed the dying soldier who was an amputee did it capture his soul also? Did Bloodshot if he was around then at the same time sense that the nanites were being re-programmed? And could there be only one human host to the nanites? Why can't there be multiple bloodshots all connected through the nanites?

This is definitely the biggest problem I have with the current explanation of Bloodshot. If the nanites work as a collective and they can regenerate, then why hasn't PRS created an army of Bloodshots? Why can't Bloodshot cut himself in half and have someone feed the halves food until there are two of him? This needs to be answered more than anything. There must be some reason behind there only being one active Bloodshot at a time. Again, I will stress that both Rees and the general never said "them" when talking about the previous incarnations of Bloodshot. Not "it" or "them", only "he".

As for the legless soldier, Rees made a point to state the nanites weren't swarming fast enough to capture his "soul".

I think we will get some more answers in BS&HC next month with Harada studying Bloodshot. I'm sure Harada will be asking a lot of the same questions.

I'm sure the process of creating Bloodshot is more involved and complicated than what we have been shown - it can't be as simple as say Bloodshot slitting his wrists and feeding it to a dying person and therefore turning them into another Bloodshot as they die. That would definitely appeal to the Vampire craze though. Very True Blood like.

But like you said - there has to be a reason why we only see one bloodshot/one human host for the nanites

Another crazy thought I just had was that perhaps the nanites collected Saturn's soul just as she died?

I think it was Harada that explained that by killing the host the nanites will die ... but perhaps the nanites transferred that DATA to Bloodshot just before they died. If Bloodshot collected the soul of Saturn and the soul contains memories that could be very useful in trying to take down/infiltrate the Harbinger Foundation.

[lorddunlow]

So, despite the many comments by people who thought this issue wasn't very good, it has generated more conversation than any of the books. Only the Harbinger #15 thread has more comments and views (only slightly more, but it came out a week before Bloodshot). Harbinger #15 had quite the revelation as well. So, regardless of whether you liked it or not, this is a book that has spurred discussion more than any other.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

We saw Bloodshot change his appearance in the very first issue when he was infiltrating that terrorist camp run by Kuretich. If he can change from grey to normal skin color and even grow new clothes, is really that much of a stretch to think that he can change from being a black guy with grey skin to being a white guy with grey skin?

My guess is that he changes his facial structure and hair to match whatever memories PRS has loaded into him. This could be something he does subconsciously or it could be that PRS designed the nanites to do this automatically so he doesn't realize he has a different body. During all of the issues of Bloodshot so far, he's appeared to be a white guy because he had a white guy's memories in his head when he was freed by Kuretich.

[AnthonyF]

This discussion has given me a lot to think over.

I figured next issue would have the Hardcorps rescuing Bloodshot.
But since he's not really a person, maybe they only rescue the nanites instead.

And, then use them on their (dark skin) fallen members (Shakespeare, for example... hammer head doesn't have the hairline to support the Bloodshot nanites... ).

So instead of dying, Shakes' soul is retained in Bloodshot!

[lorddunlow]

This discussion has given me a lot to think over.

I figured next issue would have the Hardcorps rescuing Bloodshot.
But since he's not really a person, maybe they only rescue the nanites instead.

And, then use them on their (dark skin) fallen members (Shakespeare, for example... hammer head doesn't have the hairline to support the Bloodshot nanites... ).

So instead of dying, Shakes' soul is retained in Bloodshot!

That would be kinda cool.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

I would enjoy that. It would go a long way towards explaining why Bloodshot is working for PRS again, and it would also explain why Archer is destined to kill Bloodshot (because the current Bloodshot doesn't seem like he deserves it yet). I can't imagine them using it on Shakes, though. They didn't show his body being extracted at the end of Harbinger Wars and BS#0 established that they can't use somebody who's already dead.

[Blood of Heroes]

And, then use them on their (dark skin) fallen members (Shakespeare, for example... hammer head doesn't have the hairline to support the Bloodshot nanites... ).

[BugsySig]

We saw Bloodshot change his appearance in the very first issue when he was infiltrating that terrorist camp run by Kuretich. If he can change from grey to normal skin color and even grow new clothes, is really that much of a stretch to think that he can change from being a black guy with grey skin to being a white guy with grey skin?

My guess is that he changes his facial structure and hair to match whatever memories PRS has loaded into him. This could be something he does subconsciously or it could be that PRS designed the nanites to do this automatically so he doesn't realize he has a different body. During all of the issues of Bloodshot so far, he's appeared to be a white guy because he had a white guy's memories in his head when he was freed by Kuretich.

It's been established that he can only shape-shift for a brief period of time, so I don't think he is constantly changing, or affected by the memories. Though there's no explanation why he is limited, so maybe he is affected subconsciously. In other words, I don't know

[AnthonyF]

They didn't show his body being extracted at the end of Harbinger Wars and BS#0 established that they can't use somebody who's already dead.

Dead? Dead?!

"Tis but a scratch,
...I've had worse."