Valiant Comics Price Report- Discuss/Document Valiant Prices

[greatbrandino11]

The NM book was also the first book in 9.9, no? I'm not concerned with the first variable in your criteria, I don't think crazy premiums should be paid for a common, irrelevant book. I'm trying to think of the big Valiant books that have sold in 9.9, a Unity Red and a Magnus 0 come to mind...the prices, however, and any other books do not...

The CGC 9.9 Unity #0 Red sold for $635 in 2005, when the CGC 9.8s were averaging $285. (2.2 times the 9.8)
The CGC 9.9 Magnus #0 (without card) sold for $500 in 2006, when the CGC 9.8s were averaging $95. (5.2 times the 9.8)

The CGC 9.9 Rai #0 sold for $338 in 2008, when the CGC 9.8s were averaging $40. (8.5 times the 9.8)
At the time, it was the only CGC 9.9 on the census, but a CGC 10 did exist, it sold in 2003 for about 8 times the 9.8 average.
The second CGC 9.9 Rai #0 sold for $281 in Feb. 2013, when the CGC 9.8s were averaging $54. (5.2 times the 9.8)

I bought the second CGC 9.9 Rai 0 in February
Greg- Do you know who owns the CGC 9.9 Shadowman 1? I'm just curious to see if the submitter still owns it or if it has been sold to someone else.

[GGSAE]

The NM book was also the first book in 9.9, no? I'm not concerned with the first variable in your criteria, I don't think crazy premiums should be paid for a common, irrelevant book. I'm trying to think of the big Valiant books that have sold in 9.9, a Unity Red and a Magnus 0 come to mind...the prices, however, and any other books do not...

The CGC 9.9 Unity #0 Red sold for $635 in 2005, when the CGC 9.8s were averaging $285. (2.2 times the 9.8)
The CGC 9.9 Magnus #0 (without card) sold for $500 in 2006, when the CGC 9.8s were averaging $95. (5.2 times the 9.8)

The CGC 9.9 Rai #0 sold for $338 in 2008, when the CGC 9.8s were averaging $40. (8.5 times the 9.8)
At the time, it was the only CGC 9.9 on the census, but a CGC 10 did exist, it sold in 2003 for about 8 times the 9.8 average.
The second CGC 9.9 Rai #0 sold for $281 in Feb. 2013, when the CGC 9.8s were averaging $54. (5.2 times the 9.8)

I think that Unity Red (and if memory serves me the consensus was this price was lower than expected) seems to be the best value. Did you factor in distribution of 9.8s (you mentioned 'are there other 9.9s')? Unity Red is fairly common in high grade, not surprising considering how coveted it was at the time. Let's say there were only 9.4s and 9.6s, would the 9.9 be that much more valuable, or less valuable?

[greg]

I think that Unity Red (and if memory serves me the consensus was this price was lower than expected) seems to be the best value. Did you factor in distribution of 9.8s (you mentioned 'are there other 9.9s')? Unity Red is fairly common in high grade, not surprising considering how coveted it was at the time. Let's say there were only 9.4s and 9.6s, would the 9.9 be that much more valuable, or less valuable?

No, I didn't compare the relative number of other grades... but I can.

As far as Valiant goes, it's obvious that high grades (9.8, 9.9, 10) are more common with the chromium cover books.
It also looks like the random/common issues aren't even being sent to CGC unless they are legitimate 9.8 with a shot at 9.9+.
(Harbinger 31, Eternal Warrior 35, Turok 8, HARDCorps 19, etc.)

Here are the numbers of CGC 9.9 or higher Valiant books, with the "relative scarcity on the census" (1-out-of-100, etc.)

(total is the total of CGC 9.9 + CGC 10)

[edit by Greg: list revised below]

[greatbrandino11]

I think that Unity Red (and if memory serves me the consensus was this price was lower than expected) seems to be the best value. Did you factor in distribution of 9.8s (you mentioned 'are there other 9.9s')? Unity Red is fairly common in high grade, not surprising considering how coveted it was at the time. Let's say there were only 9.4s and 9.6s, would the 9.9 be that much more valuable, or less valuable?

No, I didn't compare the relative number of other grades... but I can.

As far as Valiant goes, it's obvious that high grades (9.8, 9.9, 10) are more common with the chromium cover books.
It also looks like the random/common issues aren't even being sent to CGC unless they are legitimate 9.8 with a shot at 9.9+.
(Harbinger 31, Eternal Warrior 35, Turok 8, HARDCorps 19, etc.)

Here are the numbers of CGC 9.9 or higher Valiant books, with the "relative scarcity on the census" (1-out-of-100, etc.)

(total is the total of CGC 9.9 + CGC 10)

[edit by Greg: list revised below]

CGC 9.9 X-O Manowar 1? That must have been graded recently.

[greg]

CGC 9.9 X-O Manowar 1? That must have been graded recently.

Whoops! That's a 2012 copy that got mixed in with the 1992 counts.

Here's a revised list of CGC 9.9 or higher Valiant books, with the "relative scarcity on the census" (1-out-of-100, etc.)

(total is the total of CGC 9.9 + CGC 10)

Shadowman 1 (1992) = 1-out-of-269 (1 total)
Unity 0 Red Logo Variant (1992) = 1-out-of-203 (1 total)
Unity 1 Gold Edition (1992) = 1-out-of-192 (1 total)
Magnus Robot Fighter 0 (1992) = 1-out-of-176 (1 total)
Unity 1 Platinum Edition (1992) = 1-out-of-156 (1 total)
Rai 0 (1992) = 1-out-of-139 (3 total)
Bloodshot 1 (1993) = 1-out-of-123 (1 total)
Turok, Dinosaur Hunter 1 (1993) = 1-out-of-96 (2 total)
Eternal Warrior 1 (1992) = 1-out-of-90 (1 total)
X-O Manowar 1 (2012) = 1-out-of-76 (1 total)
X-O Manowar 8 (1992) = 1-out-of-40 (1 total)
Rai 7 (1992) = 1-out-of-38 (1 total)
Shadowman 0 Chromium Edition (1994) = 1-out-of-36 (1 total)
Deathmate Black nn Gold Edition (1993) = 1-out-of-34 (1 total)
Bloodshot 0 Gold Edition (1994) = 1-out-of-32 (3 total)
Ninjak 1 (1994) = 1-out-of-26 (3 total)
Magnus Robot Fighter 21 (1993) = 1-out-of-22 (1 total)
Shadowman 0 (1994) = 1-out-of-21 (1 total)
Bloodshot 0 (1994) = 1-out-of-20 (3 total)
Valiant Comics Summer 2012 Preview Edition 1 (2012) = 1-out-of-20 (1 total)
Unity 1 (1992) = 1-out-of-18 (5 total)
Secret Weapons 1 (1993) = 1-out-of-18 (1 total)
Archer and Armstrong 1 Aja Variant Cover (2012) = 1-out-of-15 (1 total)
X-O Manowar 0 (1993) = 1-out-of-14 (18 total)
Rai Trade Paperback nn (1993) = 1-out-of-9.3 (3 total)
Deathmate Blue nn (1993) = 1-out-of-7.5 (2 total)
Geomancer 1 (1994) = 1-out-of-7 (2 total)
Harbinger 31 (1994) = 1-out-of-6 (1 total)
Shadowman 10 (1993) = 1-out-of-5.5 (2 total)
Deathmate Preview nn (1993) = 1-out-of-5 (2 total)
Eternal Warrior 35 (1995) = 1-out-of-5 (1 total)
Bloodshot Yearbook 1 (1994) = 1-out-of-4 (1 total)
Turok, Dinosaur Hunter 8 (1994) = 1-out-of-4 (1 total)
Timewalker Yearbook 1 (1995) = 1-out-of-4 (1 total)
X-O Database 1 (1993) = 1-out-of-3.5 (2 total)
H.A.R.D. Corps 19 (1994) = 1-out-of-3 (1 total)
Deathmate Preview nn Comic Defense Edition (1993) = 1-out-of-2.5 (4 total)
Deathmate Preview nn Advance Comics Edition (1993) = 1-out-of-1.9 (19 total)

[ZosoRocks]

CGC 9.9 X-O Manowar 1? That must have been graded recently.

Whoops! That's a 2012 copy that got mixed in with the 1992 counts.

Here's a revised list of CGC 9.9 or higher Valiant books, with the "relative scarcity on the census" (1-out-of-100, etc.)

(total is the total of CGC 9.9 + CGC 10)

Shadowman 1 (1992) = 1-out-of-269 (1 total)
Unity 0 Red Logo Variant (1992) = 1-out-of-203 (1 total)
Unity 1 Gold Edition (1992) = 1-out-of-192 (1 total)
Magnus Robot Fighter 0 (1992) = 1-out-of-176 (1 total)
Unity 1 Platinum Edition (1992) = 1-out-of-156 (1 total)
Rai 0 (1992) = 1-out-of-139 (3 total)
Bloodshot 1 (1993) = 1-out-of-123 (1 total)
Turok, Dinosaur Hunter 1 (1993) = 1-out-of-96 (2 total)
Eternal Warrior 1 (1992) = 1-out-of-90 (1 total)
X-O Manowar 1 (2012) = 1-out-of-76 (1 total)
X-O Manowar 8 (1992) = 1-out-of-40 (1 total)
Rai 7 (1992) = 1-out-of-38 (1 total)
Shadowman 0 Chromium Edition (1994) = 1-out-of-36 (1 total)
Deathmate Black nn Gold Edition (1993) = 1-out-of-34 (1 total)
Bloodshot 0 Gold Edition (1994) = 1-out-of-32 (3 total)
Ninjak 1 (1994) = 1-out-of-26 (3 total)
Magnus Robot Fighter 21 (1993) = 1-out-of-22 (1 total)
Shadowman 0 (1994) = 1-out-of-21 (1 total)
Bloodshot 0 (1994) = 1-out-of-20 (3 total)
Valiant Comics Summer 2012 Preview Edition 1 (2012) = 1-out-of-20 (1 total)
Unity 1 (1992) = 1-out-of-18 (5 total)
Secret Weapons 1 (1993) = 1-out-of-18 (1 total)
Archer and Armstrong 1 Aja Variant Cover (2012) = 1-out-of-15 (1 total)
X-O Manowar 0 (1993) = 1-out-of-14 (18 total)
Rai Trade Paperback nn (1993) = 1-out-of-9.3 (3 total)
Deathmate Blue nn (1993) = 1-out-of-7.5 (2 total)
Geomancer 1 (1994) = 1-out-of-7 (2 total)
Harbinger 31 (1994) = 1-out-of-6 (1 total)
Shadowman 10 (1993) = 1-out-of-5.5 (2 total)
Deathmate Preview nn (1993) = 1-out-of-5 (2 total)
Eternal Warrior 35 (1995) = 1-out-of-5 (1 total)
Bloodshot Yearbook 1 (1994) = 1-out-of-4 (1 total)
Turok, Dinosaur Hunter 8 (1994) = 1-out-of-4 (1 total)
Timewalker Yearbook 1 (1995) = 1-out-of-4 (1 total)
X-O Database 1 (1993) = 1-out-of-3.5 (2 total)
H.A.R.D. Corps 19 (1994) = 1-out-of-3 (1 total)
Deathmate Preview nn Comic Defense Edition (1993) = 1-out-of-2.5 (4 total)
Deathmate Preview nn Advance Comics Edition (1993) = 1-out-of-1.9 (19 total)

Damn - that is crazy! I really had doubts that some even existed.

Thanks for posting!

[StarBrand]

Glad I stumbled back upon this thread. Thanks for the bump, Former. Let me see if I can find something interesting to add to the current discussion.

[StarBrand]

Discuss and document Valiant Comics prices here.

I wonder why the heck I had to edit the first post in this thread 5 times?

[StarBrand]

Two different unslabbed high grade Harby 1s pop at around 70.00 in the last 7 days. I'm not sure where we were at on this book before.




http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARBINGER-1-fro ... 232b8412a4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARBINGER-1-fro ... 232b66e5a3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ckb]

I've been selling copies described as VF/NM at about $50. Sell about 1/month.

[StarBrand]

I'm interested to se what this Eternal Warrior 4 in CGC 9.8 goes for.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eternal-Warrior ... 58a1c11d1d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[greg]

I'm interested to se what this Eternal Warrior 4 in CGC 9.8 goes for.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eternal-Warrior ... 58a1c11d1d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You know, Eternal Warrior #4 shows as much of Bloodshot as Hulk #180 shows of Wolverine.

[BloodShot]

You know, Eternal Warrior #4 shows as much of Bloodshot as Hulk #180 shows of Wolverine.

Tru dat .

But "1st appearance", "cameo", "peekaboo", or whatever; it is what it be.

[BloodShot]

I'm interested to se what this Eternal Warrior 4 in CGC 9.8 goes for.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eternal-Warrior ... 58a1c11d1d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Y'know, I'm real surprised this closed for only $76.75 (actually, a nickel over 90 bucks shipped). Mainly 'cus it's actually been pretty hot (again) as of late. The last three sales prior to this all closed either just under (and two well over) a 100 bucks each (not counting shipping) at $96, $136, and $122.74 respectively.

Anticipating the August relaunch, maybe ...

[nycjadie]

I bought the EW 4 and am equally surprised. It closed only a dollar less than my bid and expected it to go for more than $100. I saw the last one closed at $96.

[StarBrand]

I bought the EW 4 and am equally surprised. It closed only a dollar less than my bid and expected it to go for more than $100. I saw the last one closed at $96.

Nice snag.

[StarBrand]

Another EW 4 in CGC 9.8. This one's out of the gate faster than the previous one was.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eternal-Warrior ... 58a1e3e903" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BloodShot]

Another EW 4 in CGC 9.8. This one's out of the gate faster than the previous one was.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eternal-Warrior ... 58a1e3e903" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apparently the same seller submitted multiple copies of EW #4 and was able to garner at least three 9.8's out of the same group.

And, no, it wasn't me.

This time .

[StarBrand]

Another EW 4 in CGC 9.8. This one's out of the gate faster than the previous one was.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Eternal-Warrior ... 58a1e3e903" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apparently the same seller submitted multiple copies of EW #4 and was able to garner at least three 9.8's out of the same group.

And, no, it wasn't me.

This time .

We'll probably see a temporary price drop then on that book, which it looks like we're already seeing.

[lorddunlow]

This discussion brings up an odd side-effect of the CGC market. Before CGC, if I had a copy of Action Comics #1, then I had a very rare comic. Now, there are a few copies discovered every once in a while, but there were only so many made, and much fewer still in existence. That's why they're so valuable. For the most part, the number will only go down (copies become damaged, lost, etc.) making my comic even more rare and valuable. CGC creates a weird market, as shown by the above statement. There is almost a steady influx (especially with modern comics) of "new" 9.8 copies of books, which has the effect of making it less rare and less valuable. So, barring a change in the books status (say, a minor character who had their first appearance that is now a major character, or a movie is made) the CGC books can only depreciate in value. I may be totally off on this, but that's what I've observed. Take the CGC 10 thing. Those books are so expensive because they are often the only 10 in existence. If 3 more popped on the market, that original 10 would really lose it's value, correct? It just seems like the CGC market works in the opposite direction as the raw comic market.

And I can't read the book through the plastic - CGC really confuses me.

[Aram]

I agree for the most part. The only exception is when a book is extremely rare in 9.8 and in very high demand. Then it seems the market stabilizes to a degree, like with harby 1. It has been pretty stable even with some new slabs popping up.

Archer and armstrong gold took a large hit, only because demand is not anywhere near harby 1.

[greg]

There is almost a steady influx (especially with modern comics) of "new" 9.8 copies of books, which has the effect of making it less rare and less valuable. So, barring a change in the books status (say, a minor character who had their first appearance that is now a major character, or a movie is made) the CGC books can only depreciate in value. I may be totally off on this, but that's what I've observed.

Generally, yes... you are correct. However, there is also an equilibrium that is hard to deny.
The number of slabbed copies is usually directly proportional to the number of slabbed copies that are profitable.
In other words, if it's not worth slabbing (additional copies)... most of the time, it doesn't get slabbed.

So, some initial book status is required in order for the number of CGC graded copies to increase in the first place, a first appearance, first issue, great cover, etc.
Once the average price for graded copies reaches the unprofitable mark, people stop submitting.

The market for most books stabilizes... until something causes more copies to be slabbed... which is usually the change in the book's status that you mentioned.

So, except for some odd cases where someone decides to slab and sell dozens of copies of something and potentially kill their own market, the market takes care of itself.
There may be an endless supply of some books, but the demand isn't endless, so the number of copies that get slabbed will stop when the demand stops.

The greatest dangers in the CGC market are:
1) Overpaying for something with lots of raw supply because the CGC census is low (example: Magnus #13)
2) Buying slabbed copies of new books as an investment,
because there are always far more losers than winners,
because the census will probably keep growing for a little while (increasing supply)
and because the "newness" hype always subsides.
3) Buying something you won't be happy owning even if it falls in value

Take the CGC 10 thing. Those books are so expensive because they are often the only 10 in existence. If 3 more popped on the market, that original 10 would really lose it's value, correct? It just seems like the CGC market works in the opposite direction as the raw comic market.

You're correct, but you shouldn't use CGC 10 as an example if you're describing the CGC market.
The CGC 10 market is its own sub-market with its own rules.
The actual CGC market is 9.8 and lower. 9.9 and above are anomalies.

And I can't read the book through the plastic - CGC really confuses me.

This one is an old argument (and still pretty silly).

If a book is worth owning a slabbed copy then it's worth having (at least) two copies.
One to read, another one to keep slabbed.

If it's not worth having a slabbed copy, then just have one to read.

Either way, you have one to read. Problem solved.

[lorddunlow]

Do you have a copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 that you could flip through if you wanted?

I totally understand why some like to CGC a book (and after trying to get a NM copy of a book on eBay, I totally understand), but other than a few variant covers of books I really like, I have no multiples whatsoever. I don't ever plan on selling my books and not being able to rifle through them whenever I want, puts me off. This is just my personal opinion.

On a related note, I find it funny that a lot the CGC'ers on here talk about 9.8 varying from copy to copy, since it's a subjective thing in the first place. dhudson1 also commented on not displaying his CGC books due to light-bleaching damaging the comics. This means the whole point of CGC - too standardize and lock in a grade/value - is really misplaced. I literally could have a bleached white book that said Amazing Fantasy #15 8.0 that would really not be an 8.0.

Sorry for the tangent. I am fascinated by the CGC since it didn't exist my first go around with comics. I also still state that being a grader for the CGC would be an ultimately awesome job for retirement.

[greg]

Do you have a copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 that you could flip through if you wanted?

Sure... reprints are cheap and easy to find. I have several.

I don't ever plan on selling my books and not being able to rifle through them whenever I want, puts me off. This is just my personal opinion.

You would have no use for CGC whatsoever. It's a tool to take the "used car salesman" tactics out of comic buying.

On a related note, I find it funny that a lot the CGC'ers on here talk about 9.8 varying from copy to copy, since it's a subjective thing in the first place. dhudson1 also commented on not displaying his CGC books due to light-bleaching damaging the comics. This means the whole point of CGC - too standardize and lock in a grade/value - is really misplaced. I literally could have a bleached white book that said Amazing Fantasy #15 8.0 that would really not be an 8.0.

True, but you would know the book isn't 8.0 anymore... and all potential buyers would know the book isn't 8.0 anymore. CGC's grade would have been accurate at the time, but they make no claim toward what happens when it leaves their office. You could literally take a bath with it the same day it arrived.

Sorry for the tangent. I am fascinated by the CGC since it didn't exist my first go around with comics. I also still state that being a grader for the CGC would be an ultimately awesome job for retirement.

It's definitely "on topic" with regard to Valiant prices... I bought about 15 copies of X-O Manowar #1 in the late-1990s and early 2000s on Ebay.
ALL of them were described as "near mint" or "mint". The average grade is around 9.2... which is less than "near mint"... and some are 8.0.

Not a big deal on a $5 to $10 book... but even a $25 or $40 book can be a major turnoff when you don't get what the seller claims... much less spending $100+ on "just trust me" raw books.

Check out this auction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/111111213637" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
CGC 5.0 and the title includes the phrase "What is wrong with CGC?"

How much do you want to bet that this seller would have described the book as 8.0 or higher if they sold it raw?
He's got 5,000+ feedback and a 99.5% rating, and he would have been very wrong about this book... and some buyer would have been the victim.

Thankfully, that won't happen, because CGC says it's a 5.0, because I agree with the 5.0 grade, and because I'm the buyer.

[lorddunlow]

Do you have a copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 that you could flip through if you wanted?

Sure... reprints are cheap and easy to find. I have several.

For me, a reprint is a reprint. If I had a copy of Fantastic Four #1 or Amazing Fantasy #15 or Detective Comics #27, I honestly wouldn't care what shape it was in. I would love to have one in good condition, but as long as it was intact and whole, I would cherish it. I would definitely handle it with care and try to keep it in same condition I purchased it in, but I would have to take it out every once and a while and leaf through the book that literally launched a cultural icon. Knowing that the book I'm reading was probably read by someone around the time of release before anyone knew who Batman, Spiderman, etc. were is part of the value of owning the comic. It's the same reason I try to find 1st prints (not just first editions) of books that I love. I collect comics for the intrinsic value I feel they have. They are literally time capsules into another time. The ads are my favorite parts. It's another reason I hate Comixology - they don't include the ads. No fun to be had years from now like I can with my VH1 collection.

I don't ever plan on selling my books and not being able to rifle through them whenever I want, puts me off. This is just my personal opinion.

You would have no use for CGC whatsoever. It's a tool to take the "used car salesman" tactics out of comic buying.

Indeed I don't. It still fascinates me how fixated some are with 9.8s

You could literally take a bath with it the same day it arrived.

Secondary market? I could sell an ASM #1 CGC 7.5 that Stan Lee bathed with! Of course with video proof!

It's definitely "on topic" with regard to Valiant prices... I bought about 15 copies of X-O Manowar #1 in the late-1990s and early 2000s on Ebay.
ALL of them were described as "near mint" or "mint". The average grade is around 9.2... which is less than "near mint"... and some are 8.0.

Not a big deal on a $5 to $10 book... but even a $25 or $40 book can be a major turnoff when you don't get what the seller claims... much less spending $100+ on "just trust me" raw books.

This is the value I can see with CGC - eBay. I really would like to have a really nice copy of Manhattan Projects #1. Four ebay transactions later for "NM" copies from sellers with great feedback, and I have a book that I settled on which is probably 9.0 at best. The first one was literally VF/F in my opinion and I'm very lenient in my grading. I just want a copy with no obvious imperfections. I don't care if there is some minor spine problem or similar, but I'm not going to pay a lot of money for a book with creases and wrinkles/waves. I've seriously thought about putting down some money on a CGC, just to have a good copy. Problem is, there are no 9.6 copies since that would be worth the hassle to the people who submit. 9.8s go for way more than I'm willing to pay.