Are there enough variants for everyone? What are you missing

[GGSAE]

I'll just throw these comments out there...

1) The number of people posting on this board is always less than 10% of the number of regular (repeat) visitors.
2) The number of new visitors each month is always 1,000+.

Also, how many (other) things do you collect or enjoy and you do NOT post about it on a messageboard?

Well Greg, until http://www.dirtyskinmagsfans.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; comes online, just one!

[etos45]

I have to say that I disagree with this. The board USED to have a bunch of completist. The reason why was because VH1 was absolutely obtainable. There weren't but a handful of books that would really set you back any money. I was attempting it at one time (though I was going to skip VVSS because they weren't worth the headache or money to me). New Valiant's variants are exhausting with no end in site. If (God forbid) the company were to fold, then you might see completists reemerge, but as it stands right now I really think it's an unappealing thing to most collectors. It's expensive enough just buying cover price issues, let alone 1:20s for every issue, 1:50s more times than should be, and con-exclusive stuff.

I actually think it's make an interesting poll, but just reading the boards I haven't seen but a small handful say that they are still buying everything.

But that does not mean that they WILL at some point buy everything.

Well, I could flip that statement and say the exact opposite. Those few that are buying everything now might get burnt out in the future when Valiant has 16 titles going and all of the have a 1:20 every month, a 1:50 every 5 months, and several 1:100 golds floating around. Plus millions of pullbox variants and reprints. I know we have lots of members with deep pockets, but there has to come that breaking point eventually, right? Just turns out my pockets on had lint, so I dropped out early.

I just think that the only way having a complete set for most Valiant fans will be appealing is if there is a crash in the value of them and they become more realistic to buy.

[Elveen]

I have to say that I disagree with this. The board USED to have a bunch of completist. The reason why was because VH1 was absolutely obtainable. There weren't but a handful of books that would really set you back any money. I was attempting it at one time (though I was going to skip VVSS because they weren't worth the headache or money to me). New Valiant's variants are exhausting with no end in site. If (God forbid) the company were to fold, then you might see completists reemerge, but as it stands right now I really think it's an unappealing thing to most collectors. It's expensive enough just buying cover price issues, let alone 1:20s for every issue, 1:50s more times than should be, and con-exclusive stuff.

I actually think it's make an interesting poll, but just reading the boards I haven't seen but a small handful say that they are still buying everything.

But that does not mean that they WILL at some point buy everything.

Well, I could flip that statement and say the exact opposite. Those few that are buying everything now might get burnt out in the future when Valiant has 16 titles going and all of the have a 1:20 every month, a 1:50 every 5 months, and several 1:100 golds floating around. Plus millions of pullbox variants and reprints. I know we have lots of members with deep pockets, but there has to come that breaking point eventually, right? Just turns out my pockets on had lint, so I dropped out early.

I just think that the only way having a complete set for most Valiant fans will be appealing is if there is a crash in the value of them and they become more realistic to buy.

Yes, you could say the following:

I could flip that statement and say the exact opposite. Those few that are buying everything now might get burnt out in the future

Except that history has shone the exact opposite. Many Valiant fans, historically, have wanted everything. How many of us have collected Acclaim and never bought 1 Acclaim book off the shelves? I'm not arguing that there are Valiant fans who ARE NOT NOW buying the Variants. Of course there are, and that number is probably growing (mostly due to finances) but that does not mean they are not going to, at some point try and get all the books.

That is my point. Historically Valiant fans, more than any other non-Marvel & DC universe want it all!

One GREAT example is when we "discovered" that there were other newsstand variants to collect. When the Bloodshot 30, 31, and 32 come up for sale it was a feeding frenzy! There are post and posts about it. WHY?

Valiant fans are like Pokemon...... gotta have them all.

[etos45]

Yes, you could say the following:

I could flip that statement and say the exact opposite. Those few that are buying everything now might get burnt out in the future

Except that history has shone the exact opposite. Many Valiant fans, historically, have wanted everything. How many of us have collected Acclaim and never bought 1 Acclaim book off the shelves? I'm not arguing that there are Valiant fans who ARE NOT NOW buying the Variants. Of course there are, and that number is probably growing (mostly due to finances) but that does not mean they are not going to, at some point try and get all the books.

That is my point. Historically Valiant fans, more than any other non-Marvel & DC universe want it all!

One GREAT example is when we "discovered" that there were other newsstand variants to collect. When the Bloodshot 30, 31, and 32 come up for sale it was a feeding frenzy! There are post and posts about it. WHY?

Valiant fans are like Pokemon...... gotta have them all.

Again, your example is from a 12 year time period where nothing new was coming out, most books were dirt cheap, and the idea of hitting 100% didn't seem so far fetched. When people started hitting 100%, there still wasn't anything new to collect, so people started hoarding key books, then price variants.

I said in a previous post that if new Valiant goes belly up, then you will see a surge in people trying to complete it. However, if they keep publishing for years and years to come, I believe most won't bother.

[Elveen]

Yes, you could say the following:

I could flip that statement and say the exact opposite. Those few that are buying everything now might get burnt out in the future

Except that history has shone the exact opposite. Many Valiant fans, historically, have wanted everything. How many of us have collected Acclaim and never bought 1 Acclaim book off the shelves? I'm not arguing that there are Valiant fans who ARE NOT NOW buying the Variants. Of course there are, and that number is probably growing (mostly due to finances) but that does not mean they are not going to, at some point try and get all the books.

That is my point. Historically Valiant fans, more than any other non-Marvel & DC universe want it all!

One GREAT example is when we "discovered" that there were other newsstand variants to collect. When the Bloodshot 30, 31, and 32 come up for sale it was a feeding frenzy! There are post and posts about it. WHY?

Valiant fans are like Pokemon...... gotta have them all.

Again, your example is from a 12 year time period where nothing new was coming out, most books were dirt cheap, and the idea of hitting 100% didn't seem so far fetched. When people started hitting 100%, there still wasn't anything new to collect, so people started hoarding key books, then price variants.

I said in a previous post that if new Valiant goes belly up, then you will see a surge in people trying to complete it. However, if they keep publishing for years and years to come, I believe most won't bother.

Everyone can have an opinion, mine is different than yours and that is all good.

But I strongly disagree with your last point.

[GGSAE]

I have to say that I disagree with this. The board USED to have a bunch of completist. The reason why was because VH1 was absolutely obtainable. There weren't but a handful of books that would really set you back any money. I was attempting it at one time (though I was going to skip VVSS because they weren't worth the headache or money to me). New Valiant's variants are exhausting with no end in site. If (God forbid) the company were to fold, then you might see completists reemerge, but as it stands right now I really think it's an unappealing thing to most collectors. It's expensive enough just buying cover price issues, let alone 1:20s for every issue, 1:50s more times than should be, and con-exclusive stuff.

I actually think it's make an interesting poll, but just reading the boards I haven't seen but a small handful say that they are still buying everything.

But that does not mean that they WILL at some point buy everything.

Well, I could flip that statement and say the exact opposite. Those few that are buying everything now might get burnt out in the future when Valiant has 16 titles going and all of the have a 1:20 every month, a 1:50 every 5 months, and several 1:100 golds floating around. Plus millions of pullbox variants and reprints. I know we have lots of members with deep pockets, but there has to come that breaking point eventually, right? Just turns out my pockets on had lint, so I dropped out early.

I just think that the only way having a complete set for most Valiant fans will be appealing is if there is a crash in the value of them and they become more realistic to buy.

Yes, you could say the following:

I could flip that statement and say the exact opposite. Those few that are buying everything now might get burnt out in the future

Except that history has shone the exact opposite. Many Valiant fans, historically, have wanted everything. How many of us have collected Acclaim and never bought 1 Acclaim book off the shelves? I'm not arguing that there are Valiant fans who ARE NOT NOW buying the Variants. Of course there are, and that number is probably growing (mostly due to finances) but that does not mean they are not going to, at some point try and get all the books.

That is my point. Historically Valiant fans, more than any other non-Marvel & DC universe want it all!

One GREAT example is when we "discovered" that there were other newsstand variants to collect. When the Bloodshot 30, 31, and 32 come up for sale it was a feeding frenzy! There are post and posts about it. WHY?

Valiant fans are like Pokemon...... gotta have them all.

Ya but the price variants cooled off hard. Destroyer and the Visitor Valiants were the first ones to get notice and they were selling for $50/piece, then it plummeted in value. I think the market will stabilize for most of the variants, and a lot of the ones that are tough to get will never go lower than $20 or so, but I doubt they'll see the demand as the premium Valiant books like the EW VVSS or the Unity TPBS. It would have to take years and years for demand to gradually pickup those books that get buried in collections...and like what etos is saying, people won't pay the premiums on the books if the supply of variants is endless - it's just not feasible for most of us.

[Elveen]

I have to say that I disagree with this. The board USED to have a bunch of completist. The reason why was because VH1 was absolutely obtainable. There weren't but a handful of books that would really set you back any money. I was attempting it at one time (though I was going to skip VVSS because they weren't worth the headache or money to me). New Valiant's variants are exhausting with no end in site. If (God forbid) the company were to fold, then you might see completists reemerge, but as it stands right now I really think it's an unappealing thing to most collectors. It's expensive enough just buying cover price issues, let alone 1:20s for every issue, 1:50s more times than should be, and con-exclusive stuff.

I actually think it's make an interesting poll, but just reading the boards I haven't seen but a small handful say that they are still buying everything.

But that does not mean that they WILL at some point buy everything.

Well, I could flip that statement and say the exact opposite. Those few that are buying everything now might get burnt out in the future when Valiant has 16 titles going and all of the have a 1:20 every month, a 1:50 every 5 months, and several 1:100 golds floating around. Plus millions of pullbox variants and reprints. I know we have lots of members with deep pockets, but there has to come that breaking point eventually, right? Just turns out my pockets on had lint, so I dropped out early.

I just think that the only way having a complete set for most Valiant fans will be appealing is if there is a crash in the value of them and they become more realistic to buy.

Yes, you could say the following:

I could flip that statement and say the exact opposite. Those few that are buying everything now might get burnt out in the future

Except that history has shone the exact opposite. Many Valiant fans, historically, have wanted everything. How many of us have collected Acclaim and never bought 1 Acclaim book off the shelves? I'm not arguing that there are Valiant fans who ARE NOT NOW buying the Variants. Of course there are, and that number is probably growing (mostly due to finances) but that does not mean they are not going to, at some point try and get all the books.

That is my point. Historically Valiant fans, more than any other non-Marvel & DC universe want it all!

One GREAT example is when we "discovered" that there were other newsstand variants to collect. When the Bloodshot 30, 31, and 32 come up for sale it was a feeding frenzy! There are post and posts about it. WHY?

Valiant fans are like Pokemon...... gotta have them all.

Ya but the price variants cooled off hard. Destroyer and the Visitor Valiants were the first ones to get notice and they were selling for $50/piece, then it plummeted in value. I think the market will stabilize for most of the variants, and a lot of the ones that are tough to get will never go lower than $20 or so, but I doubt they'll see the demand as the premium Valiant books like the EW VVSS or the Unity TPBS. It would have to take years and years for demand to gradually pickup those books that get buried in collections...and like what etos is saying, people won't pay the premiums on the books if the supply of variants is endless - it's just not feasible for most of us.

The Bloodshot and XO price variants are still $30 books. That's not bad for what was once a .50 book.

I do agree that the QR books have cooled. (which I will admit, is a surprise to me.) I DO think they will go back up, but that is years down the road.

I doubt they'll see the demand as the premium Valiant books like the EW VVSS or the Unity TPBS

I agree, but those are the 2 priciest Valiant books. Can I see XO #2 1:20 being a $30 book? Yes. What about XO #1 2nd print? It is already a $16-$18 book. Can it be a $40 book someday? YES, for sure. Are the QR books going to get back over $100? Not sure....... maybe, but right now, probably not.


I DO think there IS value in the Variants. One reason I think this is that I believe, down the road, VEI WILL pick up more readers, and they will want to go back and get them all. And by nature of the print run, they will be harder to get.

But my point is NOT about the price of Variants, but ..... the Valiant "gotta have them all" mentality that most Valiant collectors have. My supposition is that most Valiant collectors ARE gotta have them all dudes. My Boy E-To was saying that most Valiant collectors are not "ghta" dudes.

I am using history facts as my evidence, but I could be wrong. Maybe the new books will not be collected like the OG books. We'll see.

[GGSAE]

No, I agree that the variants will never be cheap (simply based-off supply alone), but that the ones collectors will go back and collect with have more of a title-focus, than company focus. The golds from Valiant, were by definition a set, so it was a goal to collect the set. I think VEI collectors will focus on title-wide, because at this constant rate it's just not feasible (time as well as money), to go after all the Variants. I was one that got multiple variants of each as they came out, then realized how unlikely it was to go forward, and then already started developing a better opinion of one title over another, so the appeal of those other variants were less of a focus. Sure if I acquire of all the variants of a coveted title, I can go back to the others (assuming they stop making those variants). And of course if I find any cheap in bins somewhere, of course I'll grab em! But like you said, the low print runs that won't be too likely.

[drmirage]

Interesting with views both sides. I wanted to mention that (I think) there aren't enough variants for everyone (due to the print run). I wanted to address to not include price as a factor with this and its about VEI and not VH1. (it is not easy to separate both)

[jmatt]

I'll chip in my ---

I'm a collector / hobbyist. No book that has entered my collection has ever been resold. My joy is found when I see something increasing in value and I gloat to myself "...and I have eight of them!" Perhaps that makes me a borderline hoarder.

But as the endless stream of variants and second printings arrive, not only can't I afford them all, I can't even keep track of them all. And it doesn't look like VEI intends on ending this paradigm any time soon.

So as I ponder spending $75 on a Shadowman Black, the hoarder in me says "For that much money, withy my discount, I could buy 25 issues of Shadowman #1...". That, to me, almost seems more appealing. The GHTA collector in me, knowing I will never have them all, reluctantly agrees.

Should the newly relaunched titles come into great demand, someday, the number of people trying to just get a full regular issue run of Shadowman will greatly outnumber the number of new VEI completists.

I think my point is that it will be easier for a regular issue to quintuple in value from $4 to $20 than it will be for a Shadowman Black to go from $75 to $375. A VVSS Psi-Lords with a print run of 800 (in the print run ballpark of Shadowman Black) goes for $75.

Now, yeah, Psi-Lords ain't Shadowman to be sure, but it's an example. And that's back in the days when Valiant wasn't flooding the market with 'specials' nearly as much as VEI is.

[Elveen]

I'll chip in my ---

I'm a collector / hobbyist. No book that has entered my collection has ever been resold. My joy is found when I see something increasing in value and I gloat to myself "...and I have eight of them!" Perhaps that makes me a borderline hoarder.

But as the endless stream of variants and second printings arrive, not only can't I afford them all, I can't even keep track of them all. And it doesn't look like VEI intends on ending this paradigm any time soon.

So as I ponder spending $75 on a Shadowman Black, the hoarder in me says "For that much money, withy my discount, I could buy 25 issues of Shadowman #1...". That, to me, almost seems more appealing. The GHTA collector in me, knowing I will never have them all, reluctantly agrees.

Should the newly relaunched titles come into great demand, someday, the number of people trying to just get a full regular issue run of Shadowman will greatly outnumber the number of new VEI completists.

I think my point is that it will be easier for a regular issue to quintuple in value from $4 to $20 than it will be for a Shadowman Black to go from $75 to $375. A VVSS Psi-Lords with a print run of 800 (in the print run ballpark of Shadowman Black) goes for $75.

Now, yeah, Psi-Lords ain't Shadowman to be sure, but it's an example. And that's back in the days when Valiant wasn't flooding the market with 'specials' nearly as much as VEI is.

Good and interesting point.

[kevinbastos]

I think my point is that it will be easier for a regular issue to quintuple in value from $4 to $20 than it will be for a Shadowman Black to go from $75 to $375. A VVSS Psi-Lords with a print run of 800 (in the print run ballpark of Shadowman Black) goes for $75.

Now, yeah, Psi-Lords ain't Shadowman to be sure, but it's an example. And that's back in the days when Valiant wasn't flooding the market with 'specials' nearly as much as VEI is.

My response?

Yeah. Tend to agree.

Then, look at the VVSS PSI-Lords - and compare it to the Eternal Warrior VVSS - which is similar in run, and easily four times the value - based around interest and demand.

My advice? Pick up a few extras of the 1:20 variants - they are RAPIDLY approaching the same print run of the Shadowman Black, right? When completion time approaches, easily able to turn it around for the Shadowman black. In a few years, right?

[Aram]

My advice? Pick up a few extras of the 1:20 variants - they are RAPIDLY approaching the same print run of the Shadowman Black, right? When completion time approaches, easily able to turn it around for the Shadowman black. In a few years, right?

Well... while I would have thought that a great idea a few years ago..

I worry that the number of people jumping ship off floppies to digital and/or tpbs is far greater than the number of people deciding to collect floppies.

I like to use Fables as an example. To me that is a very popular "indy" title. The book still sells loads and loads of newly printed tpbs every week as well as used ones. The first few issues are very in demand as well as good demand for most back issues.

However there are still only about 17k printed each month and with it being so popular, you'd think the issues would be hard to find... but they aren't really. Nor are they "expensive" other than the first few.

I think the VEI variant print runs are right in line with demand. I think they will remain available on the back issue market over the years, with some becoming more expensive and some less. I think they will settle in a $8-12 price range for most 1:20s and $20-$25 for 1:50s and will see common sales for all the reasonably priced books like we do now for vvss and golds.

[kevinbastos]

My advice? Pick up a few extras of the 1:20 variants - they are RAPIDLY approaching the same print run of the Shadowman Black, right? When completion time approaches, easily able to turn it around for the Shadowman black. In a few years, right?

Well... while I would have thought that a great idea a few years ago..

I worry that the number of people jumping ship off floppies to digital and/or tpbs is far greater than the number of people deciding to collect floppies.

I like to use Fables as an example. To me that is a very popular "indy" title. The book still sells loads and loads of newly printed tpbs every week as well as used ones. The first few issues are very in demand as well as good demand for most back issues.

However there are still only about 17k printed each month and with it being so popular, you'd think the issues would be hard to find... but they aren't really. Nor are they "expensive" other than the first few.

I think the VEI variant print runs are right in line with demand. I think they will remain available on the back issue market over the years, with some becoming more expensive and some less. I think they will settle in a $8-12 price range for most 1:20s and $20-$25 for 1:50s and will see common sales for all the reasonably priced books like we do now for vvss and golds.

You missed my point a bit.

The variants right now are generally available for $20 at a local comic shop. Valiant blacks aren't (for the most part). Instead of investing in a Valiant black - that probably won't see the increase, change, or extension in value, invest in TWO 1:20 (1:25) variants. If/when the demand increases for completion - about as many of the 1:20 will exist as the Shadowman black issues.

THEN - one could trade. Perhaps. In theory, of course.

[jmatt]

And then my collector Ying saw what my hoarder Yang typed yesterday and said "Well, if you're never gonna resell them, what does it matter? Wouldn't you at least like to run with the big dogs here on the forum and be able to say 'Yeah, I've got one of those Shadowman Blacks too' "?

So, I am obviously of two minds on the matter. I'm in the club, and I've always been in the club.

[kjjohanson]

I think I just read the same 3 or 4 points repeated a dozen times each.

Speaking as a Valiant fan from way back that is jumping back into comics with the new line, I'd have to say that I have little interest in collecting all of the variants that I wouldn't be getting for cover price. Initially I wasn't even going to get both cover-price variants, but then I figured what the hell, it's only a few bucks. While I haven't picked up up any of the pricier variants of the new line, I will occasionally pick up one of the VH1 variants if I can get it at a good price. That said, the Shadowman Black issue looks really appealing, mostly because it's different, and for that reason I see that maintaining a higher interest that most of the other variants, regardless of print run, especially if VEI continues to pump out variants at the current pace. I've been considering bidding on one on eBay, but haven't yet found myself in the mood where I'm willing to spend ~$100 and an auction is closing, which is really the conditions that need to be met simultaneously.

[etos45]

I think I just read the same 3 or 4 points repeated a dozen times each.

Only a dozen times? We must be getting more efficient!

[fury143]

These do look like vvss numbers.

[Carson]

I think my point is that it will be easier for a regular issue to quintuple in value from $4 to $20 than it will be for a Shadowman Black to go from $75 to $375. A VVSS Psi-Lords with a print run of 800 (in the print run ballpark of Shadowman Black) goes for $75.

Now, yeah, Psi-Lords ain't Shadowman to be sure, but it's an example. And that's back in the days when Valiant wasn't flooding the market with 'specials' nearly as much as VEI is.

My response?

Yeah. Tend to agree.

Then, look at the VVSS PSI-Lords - and compare it to the Eternal Warrior VVSS - which is similar in run, and easily four times the value - based around interest and demand.

My advice? Pick up a few extras of the 1:20 variants - they are RAPIDLY approaching the same print run of the Shadowman Black, right? When completion time approaches, easily able to turn it around for the Shadowman black. In a few years, right?

My advice? Don't buy comics to flip them down the road. EVER. Remember the 90s. Don't be like those people that crashed our beloved industry!

Side note: I'm a VH1 and VEI completist and I've drawn the line for VH1 at VVSS and price variants. I'm site at some point I'll draw the line for VEI somewhere (like no golds, since they aren't even original covers). At some point you have to stop yourself. I did the same with my Joe collection (cut off completionist collecting for loose figs after 87, vehicles after 86, and carded figures after 90).

We're all OCD. But even the most addicted collector has to draw a line at some point.

My prediction: Most VEI completists collectors will have to draw a line in the sand sooner than later. Other than a few with really deep pockets.

[Mark Fuller]

Fascinating discussion here. For what its worth i'm a 20 year+ comic fan coming to Valiant for the first time. With a few exceptions i've never bothered with variant covers, but have jumped in big time for VEI. Why? As things stand the prospect of being able to keep pace with a new line from the outset is very attractive. I will never, ever have every Marvel comic published but it is possible (at the moment) to have every VEI book. Of course it helps that the quality is high and that the variant covers are worth buying on their own merits.

What's interesting is that i'm adjusting my comic buying elsewhere to account for the Valiant collecting - i'm questioning whether books are on my pull list because they are any good or whether i am getting them out of habit. At some point, as VEI expands, i'll have to ask the same questions about Valiant. The line will get too big and there will inevitably be bad books. I guess my completist tendencies will then centre on particular titles.

[GGSAE]

Fascinating discussion here. For what its worth i'm a 20 year+ comic fan coming to Valiant for the first time. With a few exceptions i've never bothered with variant covers, but have jumped in big time for VEI. Why? As things stand the prospect of being able to keep pace with a new line from the outset is very attractive. I will never, ever have every Marvel comic published but it is possible (at the moment) to have every VEI book. Of course it helps that the quality is high and that the variant covers are worth buying on their own merits.

What's interesting is that i'm adjusting my comic buying elsewhere to account for the Valiant collecting - i'm questioning whether books are on my pull list because they are any good or whether i am getting them out of habit. At some point, as VEI expands, i'll have to ask the same questions about Valiant. The line will get too big and there will inevitably be bad books. I guess my completist tendencies will then centre on particular titles.

The Shared universe in Valiant makes it more difficult to stick to just a couple titles...not impossible, but more difficult.

[Mark Fuller]

Fascinating discussion here. For what its worth i'm a 20 year+ comic fan coming to Valiant for the first time. With a few exceptions i've never bothered with variant covers, but have jumped in big time for VEI. Why? As things stand the prospect of being able to keep pace with a new line from the outset is very attractive. I will never, ever have every Marvel comic published but it is possible (at the moment) to have every VEI book. Of course it helps that the quality is high and that the variant covers are worth buying on their own merits.

What's interesting is that i'm adjusting my comic buying elsewhere to account for the Valiant collecting - i'm questioning whether books are on my pull list because they are any good or whether i am getting them out of habit. At some point, as VEI expands, i'll have to ask the same questions about Valiant. The line will get too big and there will inevitably be bad books. I guess my completist tendencies will then centre on particular titles.

The Shared universe in Valiant makes it more difficult to stick to just a couple titles...not impossible, but more difficult.

Really? Is it that different to the DC and Marvel's shared universes? I like the idea of books relating to each other and occassionally crossing over, but each book should be able to be enjoyed in isolation.

[kevinbastos]

The sharing is very unique in most of the best parts in the old VU. Crossovers have impacts, consequences, and characters have memories of interactions. They all could be read individually, but often the crossovers seemed richer. They weren't always sell more books by featuring Wolverine type crossovers.

[IMJ]

The print runs of the VEI variants are starting to be similar to VH1's VVSS numbers. They are truly limited and I don't think there will be enough variants for everyone.

Well... this may not be true due to causality. The books are limited because not many people read them and therefore the limited books will be available at the level of the readership. Hell, as far as I know Graham Crackers Comics isn't even stocking Valiant - only ordering it for the club guys.

We here on the forums are excited at these numbers because this is a component of the Valiant-corner of the hobby that we all enjoy - print runs and real rather than perceived scarcity. It's not good for the growth of the hobby though because while the current Valiant is great, they seem to be catering to a nostalgia audience and I'm guessing it might implode after a while. Of course, I hope it doesn't. I haven't talked to Dino in years now, but I hope this does well for the long haul. What he's got going for him is a built in cult following and some truly quality comics at the moment.

[IMJ]

No, I agree that the variants will never be cheap (simply based-off supply alone)

I have a lot I could say about this market, but I'll just say this: Never say never. I remember when VH1 Gold books were the hottest collectible commodity on Earth and people were paying a fortune for Golds, Magnus #12, and Solar black; all of which had limited runs. Then just last week I just bought an X-O #0 Gold for two bucks. Seriously. The market for tangible comic books is (and has been for years) slowly dwindling. I'd argue that any growth you see is more about maximizing current readership sales than it is bringing in new readers. If there's no market for a product, then it doesn't matter how limited that product is.