Valiant Variants - Enough!

[dbngaa]

When I think of the variant issue I keep coming back to this....

If the books are good, then (almost) whatever they do will be fine. Story quality is the most important thing. If they do bunches of variants AND they keep the quality high then it will be all good.

If people are only collecting BECAUSE of the variants, then it makes me dubious about long term success.

Wait, you guys actually READ the comics? You at least use white gloves and a climate controlled, dust-free room, right?

Just kiding, but I do agree with Elveen...quality stories and art will outlive the variants and sustain the company for the long haul.

[kevinbastos]

When I think of the variant issue I keep coming back to this....

If the books are good, then (almost) whatever they do will be fine. Story quality is the most important thing. If they do bunches of variants AND they keep the quality high then it will be all good.

If people are only collecting BECAUSE of the variants, then it makes me dubious about long term success.

QFT

[Heath]

Heath, you worry too much about the variants. If you keep worrying so much, you'll make your hair fall out.

No, not my beautiful hair!!

Oh, wait...

[Aram]

I see the 1:20 variants as a bad idea. It seperates the small shops from the large. At a 1:5 ratio that is printed to demand I think every one would be happy. Small shops that might only order 3 copies of a title can then order 2 more in order to get a variant that they could likely sell for double the cover price.

More issues in more shops means greater exposure. Anything less than 1:5 makes it too common to be of interest and anything higher than 1:10 makes it too hard to obtain for all the small lcs out there, thereby cutting them out of the whole incentive to order more in the first place.

The market has just changed too much from the 90's when valiant started the premium Variant craze. It was a good idea then and it is a good idea now, but something has to be weighed in order to reward all shops equally.

Small shops will not take chances on huge orders. And as much as I hate to admit it, ordering 20 copies of a new Companies title is just not possible for small shops.
It only caters to the larger mid size shops.

I can only guess... But I'd say 25-40% of shops out there are small shops that could not order 20 of one title unless it was already a continuous top 50 title.

These small shops may not be a huge part of the bottom line in the industry's financial statements, but they are the only thing keeping this industry and art form alive and thriving. More attention needs to be paid to them or we will keep declining as we have been for the last decade.

I think Valiant is in a key role that will greatly contribute to either the rise or fall of the industry from here on out.

[Heath]

I don't think one variant per month (across the whole line) would be in "crazy" territory. And if they structured it so every retailer (even the smallest ones) could get involved, then that would make it even better. Like perhaps every retailer can order one copy of the variant regardless of how many total books they buy. Then, they can buy additional copies at the 1:20 ratio. And that ratio be across the whole line.

[grendeljd]

I don't think one variant per month (across the whole line) would be in "crazy" territory. And if they structured it so every retailer (even the smallest ones) could get involved, then that would make it even better. Like perhaps every retailer can order one copy of the variant regardless of how many total books they buy. Then, they can buy additional copies at the 1:20 ratio. And that ratio be across the whole line.

At this point, making 1:20 variants across-the-line essentially makes them a 1:5 variant while we have 4 base titles on the go. Which I would fully support - depending on the art - even if there were 4 variants per month [1 per title]. When and if I buy a variant, I prefer it to be at cover price... a few dollars more [say, $10 max] for what has so far been largely high quality art on the VEI variants is reasonable to me.

[Aram]

I don't think one variant per month (across the whole line) would be in "crazy" territory. And if they structured it so every retailer (even the smallest ones) could get involved, then that would make it even better. Like perhaps every retailer can order one copy of the variant regardless of how many total books they buy. Then, they can buy additional copies at the 1:20 ratio. And that ratio be across the whole line.

At this point, making 1:20 variants across-the-line essentially makes them a 1:5 variant while we have 4 base titles on the go. Which I would fully support - depending on the art - even if there were 4 variants per month [1 per title]. When and if I buy a variant, I prefer it to be at cover price... a few dollars more [say, $10 max] for what has so far been largely high quality art on the VEI variants is reasonable to me.

+1

[Heath]

I'm not mathemagician, but I have to argue with your math.

A 1:20 variant, across the whole line, is still a 1:20 variant. You might could look at it as a 1:5*4 (5 copies each of 4 titles) variant, but that still equals 1:20. So does 1:10*2 (10 copies each of 2 titles), or 1:7+6+2+5 (relative number of issues bought for each of 4 titles). No matter how you divide out that 20, a retailer would still have to buy 20 copies to get a variant.

But...

If retailers can order 1 copy of a variant regardless, and can order additional copies at a 1:20 ratio, then the ratio would change with each subsequent variant they qualify for. The first copy would be at a 1:0 ratio. The second at a 1:10 (2:20) ratio. The third would be at a 1:13.33 (3:40) ratio. The fourth would be 1:15 (4:60) ratio. Etc.

[tchalla8]

I'm not mathemagician, but I have to argue with your math.

A 1:20 variant, across the whole line, is still a 1:20 variant. You might could look at it as a 1:5*4 (5 copies each of 4 titles) variant, but that still equals 1:20. So does 1:10*2 (10 copies each of 2 titles), or 1:7+6+2+5 (relative number of issues bought for each of 4 titles). No matter how you divide out that 20, a retailer would still have to buy 20 copies to get a variant.

But...

If retailers can order 1 copy of a variant regardless, and can order additional copies at a 1:20 ratio, then the ratio would change with each subsequent variant they qualify for. The first copy would be at a 1:0 ratio. The second at a 1:10 (2:20) ratio. The third would be at a 1:13.33 (3:40) ratio. The fourth would be 1:15 (4:60) ratio. Etc.

"I was under the impression there would be no math" - Chevy Chase as Gerald Ford (Saturday Night Live)

[Aram]

I'm not mathemagician, but I have to argue with your math.

He may have been referring to my earlier post idea, or providing a similar one.

I for one would love to see a line wide multiple variant policy. Say for every 20 VEI comics ordered in a month, a retailer could then order 1 each of the variants for each title that was included in their order.

[grendeljd]

I'm not mathemagician, but I have to argue with your math.

A 1:20 variant, across the whole line, is still a 1:20 variant. You might could look at it as a 1:5*4 (5 copies each of 4 titles) variant, but that still equals 1:20. So does 1:10*2 (10 copies each of 2 titles), or 1:7+6+2+5 (relative number of issues bought for each of 4 titles). No matter how you divide out that 20, a retailer would still have to buy 20 copies to get a variant.

But...

If retailers can order 1 copy of a variant regardless, and can order additional copies at a 1:20 ratio, then the ratio would change with each subsequent variant they qualify for. The first copy would be at a 1:0 ratio. The second at a 1:10 (2:20) ratio. The third would be at a 1:13.33 (3:40) ratio. The fourth would be 1:15 (4:60) ratio. Etc.

No worries - I'm no mathlete myself

I agree with your logic - but I'm with Arams idea; imagining the rules working as if each title's 1:20 variant qualified by getting any 20 valiant books. In that case, ordering any 20 copies qualifies the retailer to get up to 4 different variants. Lets just say you had to at least order 1 of each to get a variant of each title. THAT's what I'd like to see.

I know I recently convinced my LCS owner to get the A&A 1:100 based on the across the line system. He originally thought it was just a flat out 1:100 A&A variant. Which is crazy-talk.

[Heath]

I'm not mathemagician, but I have to argue with your math.

A 1:20 variant, across the whole line, is still a 1:20 variant. You might could look at it as a 1:5*4 (5 copies each of 4 titles) variant, but that still equals 1:20. So does 1:10*2 (10 copies each of 2 titles), or 1:7+6+2+5 (relative number of issues bought for each of 4 titles). No matter how you divide out that 20, a retailer would still have to buy 20 copies to get a variant.

But...

If retailers can order 1 copy of a variant regardless, and can order additional copies at a 1:20 ratio, then the ratio would change with each subsequent variant they qualify for. The first copy would be at a 1:0 ratio. The second at a 1:10 (2:20) ratio. The third would be at a 1:13.33 (3:40) ratio. The fourth would be 1:15 (4:60) ratio. Etc.

No worries - I'm no mathlete myself

I agree with your logic - but I'm with Arams idea; imagining the rules working as if each title's 1:20 variant qualified by getting any 20 valiant books. In that case, ordering any 20 copies qualifies the retailer to get up to 4 different variants. Lets just say you had to at least order 1 of each to get a variant of each title. THAT's what I'd like to see.

I know I recently convinced my LCS owner to get the A&A 1:100 based on the across the line system. He originally thought it was just a flat out 1:100 A&A variant. Which is crazy-talk.

Yep, I see where you're coming from now. But if variants are necessary (and I'm still not convinced they are), I'd like to see that number reduced to 1 variant per month, not 4. With an across the line threshold of 20 copies to be eligible.

[grendeljd]

I'm not mathemagician, but I have to argue with your math.

A 1:20 variant, across the whole line, is still a 1:20 variant. You might could look at it as a 1:5*4 (5 copies each of 4 titles) variant, but that still equals 1:20. So does 1:10*2 (10 copies each of 2 titles), or 1:7+6+2+5 (relative number of issues bought for each of 4 titles). No matter how you divide out that 20, a retailer would still have to buy 20 copies to get a variant.

But...

If retailers can order 1 copy of a variant regardless, and can order additional copies at a 1:20 ratio, then the ratio would change with each subsequent variant they qualify for. The first copy would be at a 1:0 ratio. The second at a 1:10 (2:20) ratio. The third would be at a 1:13.33 (3:40) ratio. The fourth would be 1:15 (4:60) ratio. Etc.

No worries - I'm no mathlete myself

I agree with your logic - but I'm with Arams idea; imagining the rules working as if each title's 1:20 variant qualified by getting any 20 valiant books. In that case, ordering any 20 copies qualifies the retailer to get up to 4 different variants. Lets just say you had to at least order 1 of each to get a variant of each title. THAT's what I'd like to see.

I know I recently convinced my LCS owner to get the A&A 1:100 based on the across the line system. He originally thought it was just a flat out 1:100 A&A variant. Which is crazy-talk.

Yep, I see where you're coming from now. But if variants are necessary (and I'm still not convinced they are), I'd like to see that number reduced to 1 variant per month, not 4. With an across the line threshold of 20 copies to be eligible.

Yeah, that could work out - rotate a different title with a variant each month to keep the numbers down. Again, I am not a huge variant collector, so the point is largely moot for me - but I sympathize with the completionists out there. I'm only gonna grab ones I really like/can afford, regardless.

[Aram]

Yep, I see where you're coming from now. But if variants are necessary (and I'm still not convinced they are), I'd like to see that number reduced to 1 variant per month, not 4. With an across the line threshold of 20 copies to be eligible.

The problem with that is.. How do you decide which title gets an extra? Fans of the other titles might be upset, and fans of the lucky title who didn't know about the variant would get upset if they missed it because it wasn't a normal thing.

The beauty of my idea is it opens up each title variant to the Shops. Say they only have 1 Bloodshot fan signed up, and so they only order 2 copies of bloodshot per month... they can then order 19 copies of X-O for their 17 X-O fans that are signed up, and still be able to get a Bloodshot Variant cover for the 1 Bloodshot fan who desperately wants it.

It keeps the Company wide numbers up because shops still have to order 20 comics from VEI in order to qualify for 1 variant of each title, but it lessens the risk greatly, makes shops happy with the freedom to order anything they want or need and provides a full spectrum of limited variant titles to every shop as long as they order at least 1 copy of the normal version of that title and meet the 20 per variant order minimums. I would bet that many small shops that would only normally order around 20 or less total VEI titles per month might even consider doubling up orders to 40 in order to get the 8 variants.

[GGSAE]

Yep, I see where you're coming from now. But if variants are necessary (and I'm still not convinced they are), I'd like to see that number reduced to 1 variant per month, not 4. With an across the line threshold of 20 copies to be eligible.

The problem with that is.. How do you decide which title gets an extra? Fans of the other titles might be upset, and fans of the lucky title who didn't know about the variant would get upset if they missed it because it wasn't a normal thing.

The beauty of my idea is it opens up each title variant to the Shops. Say they only have 1 Bloodshot fan signed up, and so they only order 2 copies of bloodshot per month... they can then order 19 copies of X-O for their 17 X-O fans that are signed up, and still be able to get a Bloodshot Variant cover for the 1 Bloodshot fan who desperately wants it.

It keeps the Company wide numbers up because shops still have to order 20 comics from VEI in order to qualify for 1 variant of each title, but it lessens the risk greatly, makes shops happy with the freedom to order anything they want or need and provides a full spectrum of limited variant titles to every shop as long as they order at least 1 copy of the normal version of that title and meet the 20 per variant order minimums. I would bet that many small shops that would only normally order around 20 or less total VEI titles per month might even consider doubling up orders to 40 in order to get the 8 variants.

I think the idea is order 20 of anything and get the one copy of the variant published that month. I don't like the idea of having multiple variants like what your model suggests; I think the variant would be more sought after because they could rotate it to a title that has significance (e.g. new character, major plot line) for that month. There would be a lot of them printed, so it wouldn't be too costly.

[Aram]

I think the idea is order 20 of anything and get the one copy of the variant published that month. I don't like the idea of having multiple variants like what your model suggests; I think the variant would be more sought after because they could rotate it to a title that has significance (e.g. new character, major plot line) for that month. There would be a lot of them printed, so it wouldn't be too costly.

I agree that could work as well, however I think VEI would sell more books if they had great alternative art on each title as a approximate 1:5 variant. I know I'd buy them.

I believe buffy and angel/faith are both top 100 books that have 2 covers each plus at least occasional variants on top of that. I buy both titles but I dont care about the covers even though I usually prefer one over the other due to the art. Though I've really liked some variants, I've never loved the books themselves enough to tempt me to buy one.

When It comes to Valiant though I have loved every cover and story so far that I want to have them all, even if I'm just paying for the additional cover art. Placing things like this within reach of the fans and shops can only help VEI's bottom line when done right. Which then gives them more resources to continue doing the great work they have done and even improve on it.

[vikingspawn]

I believe buffy and angel/faith are both top 100 books that have 2 covers each plus at least occasional variants on top of that.

3 each if you count their "Bookstore" variants.

(regular cover with a different UPC)

[Crow331]

8 pages and still going??

[GGSAE]

8 pages and still going??

Hey If you don't like it, sell me your 1:50 variants!

[jmatt]

If people are only collecting BECAUSE of the variants, then it makes me dubious about long term success.

+1

[geocarr]

Where the hell is Draco and why hasn't he posted in this thread yet?

[Aram]

If people are only collecting BECAUSE of the variants, then it makes me dubious about long term success.

+1

Well... I for one can tell you...

I only collect the Variants because... they are variants.

[Aram]

8 pages and still going??

Short of a new announcement from VEI about ceasing Variants... I predict this thread might reach the tripple or even quadruple digits..