Valiant Variants - Enough!

[Heath]

I don't know about everybody else, but the endless variants from Valiant are really starting to bother me. I'm not a die-hard completist, but I do like to have a "representative sample" of things I like and collect. The fact that there are SO MANY variants, and my chances of getting ANY of them are slim to none, the whole thing is becoming very disheartening. MY copies are starting to look much less special because they're just the "regular" covers, not the rare awesome variant covers. It's taking a LOT of the fun out of the Valiant relaunch for me.

Am I alone?

Variants for #1 issues? Great. Have at it and go crazy.

Variants for "special" issues - #25, #50, #100... Sure. That's fine.

Variants for every issue?

[caniac]

Nope. I just heard that XO#5 will have a 1:20. I want to know when they will end so I can determine if I want to still get the 1:20s...if it's endless I will stop getting them because that would be ridiculous

[Zaphod]

it sounds more like you are a completionist who isn't willing to put out the cash for the variants. If you don't like the variants, ignore they exist.

To be honest, my concern is that the lcs is the one who is going to be taking the greatest risk in all of this...and if we lose their support it's game over for VEI.

I don't know the behind the scene's business of all of this other than we have limited shelf space and VEI has to compete with all the other companies doing it.

That said, this screams of desperate cash grab and to be honest, I'd figure it a better economic model for VEI to keep it to 1st issue variants if they must and go with 2nd or 3rd printings should their innitial run sell-out.

Finally, I'm not going to concern myself with the variant covers, which to me is no different than the chromium, dye-cut, hologram, X-Men #1 x 5 covers, card inserts B.S. that drove me away in the 90's. I was a dumb kid and I bought into all of that crap then, I am a reader not a collector.

[GGSAE]

I've bought a few of each of the 1:20, and 1:50 variants, but I simply can't justify that for each title if every issue has a 1:20 variant. I don't mind new variants popping up from time to time, let's say every five issues or 10 issues, or a rotation of one variant per month, then a different title has a variant the next month, etc., etc. But as you guys say, there are a lot of people that won't be getting every 1:20 variant each month for each title, that would get very pricey.

[greg]

It's very hard on the completionist collector... but it's probably EASIER on the retailer.

Here's why...

If the retailer doesn't order 20 copies, then it doesn't matter if there's a variant or not...
They need to pay $2 each and they need to sell at least half for $3.99 to break even.

If the retailer does order 20 copies, they get a 1:20 variant that they can sell for $15 to $20.
That one sale of that one book changes the whole "investment" in the VEI product.
That single book only costs them $2, so they're making $13 to $18 that can be applied to the cost of the other 20.

Let's say they sell the 1:20 variant(s) for $15...
The retailer who orders a multiple of 20 copies will only need to make $1.35 each to break even, not $2 each.
If they sell 7 of the 20 copies for $3.99... they're already ahead... with 13 additional copies that are now "free".

It makes more sense (financially) to order 20 and a variant than to order 14 through 19.
ONLY if the retailer doesn't believe they can sell at least 7 copies at $3.99 should they order fewer than 20.

Bottom line... retailers should order 1 to 13 or exact multiples of 20... but nothing in between.
(And for every multiple of 20, they only have to sell 7 at $3.99 to be ahead.)

[BruceReville]

Why not just keep the 50/50 Pullbox variant going instead of the 1:20? Pullbox was a great idea to get subscribers into the LCS - but what no more Pullbox variants after issue 1, but 1:20 instead? ACK!

[greg]

Do the math.

[BruceReville]

Math = Less In Wallet

[Elveen]

I don't know the $$$$ side of the comic industry, but there must be a reason companies do variants. So I fully expect Valiant to do the same.

If Variants make the company lots of cash, then my message to Valiant is...... do LOTS of variants.

I was thinking of trying to get as many of the variants as I can, but I missed the XO #2 1:20 at the LCSs around me (there are a bunch, and they were all out). I have bid on a few on ebay and come up short. Oh well. I still want it, but I'm not going to break the bank to get it.


I think we all need to remember that the "dream" is a reality. There ARE new Valiant books. This IS the summer of Valiant. Are there a BUNCH of variants to get to get them all? Yes. Do I want them? Yes. Am I going to be bummed out that I do not have the XO #2 variant? Yes, but not too bad.


I guess the question each person has to answer for themselves is...... how many variants are too many?

For me, it is a lot, but not too much. If in, let's say next Feb., there are 6 variants to get, that will be too much FOR ME.

But I DO expect there to be at least 1 Valiant variant per month, actually probably 1 per release week. I'm looking forward to them. Heck..... what will be the 1st VVSS?

[Zaphod]

Greg, I think you'd agree that you can only make off of something what someone is willing to pay for it. I don't think it is such a "sure-fire" win as you are painting it out to be. I understand your math, and right now at the start that probably makes sense. Once they are up to 4 titles, all doing various variants...well...

[greg]

Greg, I think you'd agree that you can only make off of something what someone is willing to pay for it. I don't think it is such a "sure-fire" win as you are painting it out to be.

It's very simple, though.

If you can't sell 7 of them... order 13 or fewer and try to break even.

If you CAN sell 7 of them... order 20... sell 7 for $3.99 each, and get at least $15 for the 1:20 variant.

The only thing it changes is whether someone orders 14 - 19, because if they're a thinking person, they'll move it on up to 20.
(VEI, the retailer, and the local customer willing to pay $15 for the 1:20 all come out winners.)

[The Count]

If VEI did a month of "The Count" variants then would make 1 million dollars. I'm just saying.

[paradise]

As a retailer and a comic book fan, I have a very conflicted opinion about Variants in general.

Any retailer who is SMART will always order up to get variants, as long as the estimated price they can get for a variant is at least equal to the cost of the additional books.

ON THE OTHER HAND:

Any retailer who is SMART should be trying to sell someone 5 unique $3.99 comics, instead of a $20 variant. That's just math, if they continue to pick 4 comics up, long term, that's much MUCH more revenue for the retailer.

ON THE OTHER OTHER HAND:

Any retailer who is not getting the variants and who is not pricing them accordingly with the market they are in (and with Ebay the market is Earth) is not doing what they should be doing, making profit. They should just close the shop and get a job. Business owner's job is to make money and to maximize the amount they make while being fair and honest.

So that explains the retailer point of view, how about Valiant's? (I am just making educated guesses based on close to 20 years in this business)

Valiant needs to produce variants, because their customer is NOT YOU. You are a fan who enjoys the product they produce, but their customer is the retailer. We buy on non-returnable basis, so once I buy my 2,000 copies of Bloodshot #1, I paid for them and Valiant get their cut. They have to do everything to get me to buy more books, for three reasons:

1. They have to maximize what they make
2. The more of their books I have on the shelf, the more chances I have to sell their product, and the more inclined I am to promote them as opposed to the other products I don't have a lot on the shelf of.
3. The more books get ordered the more confidence marketplace has in the company, the better opportunities the company has to secure talent and news coverage from the media, which gives them ability to create more fans.

Greg is 100% right. I pay attention to incentives like variants and use the money I would make off them to get more products on the shelf. That's why First issues SHOULD have a lot of incentives, and any time you have a BIG issue, like XO #5, you SHOULD have a lot of incentives for retailers to buy them. Valiant's incentive for #5 is EXCELLENT in the way that it will make fans want the books, and it will make Retailers want to increase their orders.

Now for all the fans complaining about the variants : I totally feel for you, and I know everyone is in a worse spot now than they were last year, and every one individually needs to make a choice whether to continue buying variants or not. What I don't like (as a fellow fan of the company's products) is that many here are talking about abandoning the company whose products you waited years for, and whose characters you LOVE because you can't afford 3rd or 4th copy of the same comic book. To me that is a bit insincere. We all waited for YEARS, and now that it's back and it's GOOD, people are dumping on the people who brought it all back because they are trying to create a bigger space for themselves in this industry.

I ask you this : Get over it, and decide whether you NEED to have multiple copies of the same book.

I know some of you may think it's hypocritical coming from the guy selling sets of all covers with extras on this site, but I don't think it is. I offer the product because I know there is a need for it from a small group of people. Those people want it and should have the ability to get it, and I provide that. Does not mean I would not rather sell $100 as 25 unique different comics to every one of those people. I would, it would make our industry and my business stronger over all. But I don't judge people who feel they want to have something.

Wow, this came out longer than I wanted.

[Crow331]

I ask you this : Get over it, and decide whether you NEED to have multiple copies of the same book.

Get over your sickness in other words


Well said post though. Financially, Valiant really has no choice. But you do ...

[paradise]

Get over your sickness in other words
Well said post though. Financially, Valiant really has no choice. But you do ...

I don't call it sickness. I just feel that a few member here have been very serious about piling on Valiant to stop doing variants (this thread's title, wow) without considering that Valiant is not doing it randomly, or in spite them. It's a business decision based on a lot of research. Also don't forget that Valiant's Sales Manager, Atom, is an Eisner-Award Winning former retailer, whose shop I have been to on many occasions, who is a very smart dude. Those decisions are made because they help Valiant succeed, and we should all embrace them, even if it does not satisfy us personally.

The comment that bothers me the most is :

MY copies are starting to look much less special because they're just the "regular" covers, not the rare awesome variant covers. It's taking a LOT of the fun out of the Valiant relaunch for me.

NO, it does not, we are not in COVER Collecting hobby. We are in comic book reading hobby. Everything else is a bonus.

[buff-beardo]

I agree with paradise. I think variants are sound economics. However, I do have sympathy for the "completististist".

[Rubiks-Q-Bert]

You don't have to collect everything. If you think it's to much, don't buy. Simple.

I always thought variants were an incentive to the retailer anyways. Not the individual collector. I mean I know what they mean to the collector but I don't think VEI is looking at it from that point of view. Their goal is to put out comics and make money doing it. Variants do that.

You're entitled to your opinion but so am I so here it is. If you think they are doing something wrong (variants, barcodes, whatever) don't buy them.

MY copies are starting to look much less special because they're just the "regular" covers, not the rare awesome variant covers. It's taking a LOT of the fun out of the Valiant relaunch for me.

NO, it does not, we are not in COVER Collecting hobby. We are in comic book reading hobby. Everything else is a bonus.

While I agree, I am a little more harsh.

Boo hoo. Enjoy the comics for what they are. It's been a damn decade. Quit your complaining and be happy that you have new comics from Valiant at all.

[Dr. Solar]

I'm more concerned about the number of hands Ed has, more than anything else. Case in point:

ON THE OTHER OTHER HAND:

[Crow331]

I'm more concerned about the number of hands Ed has, more than anything else. Case in point:

ON THE OTHER OTHER HAND:

Maybe he can loan one to Aric!?

[Zaphod]

I'm more concerned about the number of hands Ed has, more than anything else. Case in point:

ON THE OTHER OTHER HAND:

Maybe he can loan one to Aric!?

c'mon man....too soon.

[paradise]

I'm more concerned about the number of hands Ed has, more than anything else. Case in point:

ON THE OTHER OTHER HAND:

Was waiting to see how long it would take for someone to comment on that Not too long

[cjv]

I completely understand the rational for offering variants. And I am sure the variants ratios (1:20, 1:50, 1:100 line wide, etc) have been researched extensively to produce an optimal variant ration for Valiant (see, mathematics is GOOD!). No problem there. More Variants means more issues ordered which means more money for Valiant which means they stay in business, and that is good for me as a fan.

I completely understand why store owners want to buy Variants - as Greg pointed out, it decreases the amount of money they need to make selling the "regular issues". I have no problem with a store selling a Variant at fair market value (or course, a store selling a XO 1:50 QR cover for $200 is another matter entirely). The store is there to make money. If they can sell a Variant that lets them pay the bills that keeps them in business, that is good for me as a fan.

The only problem I have is as a fan, I can't afford to buy all the Variants, and I want to. That isn't Valiant's fault, that isn't the stores fault, it is a simple fact of life. I would love to buy a 65 inch flat screen 3D LED LCD TV for the living room - I can't afford that either. Not Sony's fault, not Best Buy's fault, it's just true.

As a fan I would love to be able to have a copy of everything Valiant puts out. After spending years collecting a dead universe, I think many of us (myself included) have a completionist mentality, which is unrealistic for an active, publishing comic book company. Years of being able to try and buy a copy of everything has led to the expectation that we can. And in some cases, we simply can't.

I would love to see Variants that helped Valiant, the comic stores, and the fan. I think the 1:100 line wide variant is something sort of like that. Sell more books (good for Valiant), gets stores to order a wider range of titles (and hopefully gets regular customers for those titles - good of the store), and it (in theory) may be cheaper than the 1:50 variants that were for the other issues (good for fans).

You know what would be cool - a pullbox variant for people that order one of each title. A special variant for a different title each month (basically a 1:4 line wide variant right now, increasing when more/if more titles come out), but the caveat is it has to be one of each title. No buying 4 XO Manowar's to get it. This would help Valiant, it would help the store (getting more people to buy a variety of issues), and it would help the fans (a variant that would be in reach). Don't know if that is something they have considered, but it seems like a logical extension of the pullbox variant idea (although as we all saw, the pullbox variant didn't always work as intended - some stores put a premium price on it, some offered to regular customers). I think the pullbox variant was an attempt by Valiant to create a fan-friendly alternative cover - and I think it was a great idea.

I agree with a post above - I wish I knew if variants were going to be the standard for each issue. If so, I would know if I want to try to get them all (if they are going to stop shortly) or not (if they will continue indefinitely).

Chris

[paradise]

Chris, love your post and have a couple of comments:

1. Do you ever go on Sony boards and complain that they put out TVs that are too expensive? Not likely, right? This is somewhat similar, right? It does show passion for the product, but it does damage in our case because we are a pretty small community and this type of stuff resonates much more.

2. Pullbox - brilliant idea, but it does not work, as long as there is no way to monitor and control it. I ordered 2,000 copies of X-O #1, 1k of Cover A and 1k of Pullbox cover. Diamond won't control it and Valiant can't police it so it kind of loses it's specialness. It was great as a gimmick with early titles to bring old time valiant fans back and let retailers know that they are looking for the books. It really only worked on X-O and less and less after that.

Don't worry, knowing Atom, Dinesh and the crew, they are coming up with some really great stuff. As a matter of fact, I know of at least one incentive/promotion that will be lots of fun in the coming months.

[VEI Reborn]

I love the variants. I hope they continue to make more. In fact, I was bummed there was only 2 covers for X-O #2 .


Half the fun for me is collecting. The other half is the reading. If I only have the reading...them Im having half the fun.


I dont get it really. If you dont like/dont want/cant afford the variants......just dont worry about them then. Enjoy what you have/can get and dont worry about what the other kids have to play with. OR, take your time and collect as you can and dont stress yourself

[cjv]

Chris, love your post and have a couple of comments:

1. Do you ever go on Sony boards and complain that they put out TVs that are too expensive? Not likely, right? This is somewhat similar, right? It does show passion for the product, but it does damage in our case because we are a pretty small community and this type of stuff resonates much more.

No, I just complain to my friends.

2. Pullbox - brilliant idea, but it does not work, as long as there is no way to monitor and control it. I ordered 2,000 copies of X-O #1, 1k of Cover A and 1k of Pullbox cover. Diamond won't control it and Valiant can't police it so it kind of loses it's specialness. It was great as a gimmick with early titles to bring old time valiant fans back and let retailers know that they are looking for the books. It really only worked on X-O and less and less after that.

The only way I can think it would work is if there is some redemption coupon that gets mailed in, or something to that effect - but then that doesn't help retailers at all (although some people might start ordering two of every title - one to cut up, one to keep pristine). Ed, you had a store in the early 90's, right? Did the mail away coupons in the Valiant comics work to increase sales at all?

I do have one quick comment about your post. You said that Valiant's customers are not the fans, but the comic store. I agree with this in a fashion. Thus, the incentive issues are incentives to the retailers to buy more. However, fans are the indirect customer of Valiant. To that end, if there were incentives to the fans (mail away issues, pull box variants, etc) that caused the fans to buy more, this in turn would provide incentive to the comic stores to buy more as well - knowing they could turn it over. So incentives can go two ways - to the direct customer of Valiant (retailers) or indirect customers of Valiant (fans). Either way, they would work to result in more comics being sold.


Chris