Valiant Variants - Enough!

[Tim]

Maybe if they weren't incentive variants? Like for instance...instead of a 1:100 variant they'd just have a variant that cost $399 (or less perhaps). The people who want the variant could just prepay their LCS (can't imagine they'd risk getting stiffed on that) and flat-out buy it if they wanted it. Still exclusive and highly collectable, but without the risk of retailers getting stuck with unsold books. Don't know if that would make anyone happy or anything better....just thinking out loud.

[greg]

The market has changed to the point that almost NO comics sell more than 100,000 copies (much less 500,000), and the total of all variants combined is around 50,000 copies... so arguments using the 1990s examples aren't valid.

In order to survive, Valiant must sell enough books.
In order to sell enough books, Valiant must sell a variety of those books.

If they could sell 50,000 copies of "one version only" books, they probably would.

We want Valiant to make great stories and to publish for a very long time... so that we are entertained.

When we start saying that Valiant should make great stories, publish for a very long time, limit the variants, cut the prices, increase the paper quality, and have more/less words/bubbles/timestamps/pages/previews... we're just being ridiculous.

It's even more ridiculous when we try to claim we're not being ridiculous.

[Heath]

Like when we try to enforce the use of made up words?

I respect your market analysis, but disagree that variants are necessary.

[400yrs]

They'll continue to make them until they believe they are no longer helping with sales. So...... they may never stop.

WE'RE HERE! WE'RE QUEER! GET USE TO IT!!

[Donovan]

When we start saying that Valiant should make great stories, publish for a very long time, limit the variants, cut the prices, increase the paper quality, and have more/less words/bubbles/timestamps/pages/previews... we're just being ridiculous.

It's even more ridiculous when we try to claim we're not being ridiculous.

Excellent post.

The ONLY people the variants hurt are the completists who can't/won't afford the covers. There's a minor case to be made that it will burn retailers, but that's a business risk they'll have to decide if they want to take. Everything else is all upside, imo.

[caxiotis]

WE'RE HERE! WE'RE QUEER! GET USE TO IT!!

Uh.................what?

[FormerReader]

WE'RE HERE! WE'RE QUEER! GET USE TO IT!!

Uh.................what?

I knew it!

[400yrs]

WE'RE HERE! WE'RE QUEER! GET USE TO IT!!

Uh.................what?

[400yrs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCWdCKPtnYE

[jmatt]

Not aimed at anyone....

How is wanting something but not wanting to have to pay for it, and because you don't want to pay for it thinking
that it shouldn't be available to those who are ok with paying for it any different that people who want money but don't want to work for it, and because they don't want to work for it thinking it shouldn't be available to those who are ok working for it?

Nice analogy.

[jmatt]

It's not about ME at all.

Yeah, but that's not how this conversation started:

"I don't know about everybody else, but the endless variants from Valiant are really starting to bother me. I'm not a die-hard completist, but I do like to have a "representative sample" of things I like and collect. The fact that there are SO MANY variants, and my chances of getting ANY of them are slim to none, the whole thing is becoming very disheartening. MY copies are starting to look much less special because they're just the "regular" covers, not the rare awesome variant covers. It's taking a LOT of the fun out of the Valiant relaunch for me. "

There's a lot of I's and Me's and My's in that statement.

But please do not think I am unsympathetic. I know exactly what you mean.

[Heath]

Touche!

[R Daneel]

I hope the people complaining are doing something about it - voting with their wallets.

I doubt VEI is setting out to bankrupt their ultra core fans on this board, they are just trying to do the best thing for their company in the way they know how. We are the lowest hanging fruit, I think a lot of what they are doing is to capture the marketplace that they don't have.

Truth be told, I have bought 1 regular issue and 1 pullbox for every issue printed. Not to object to anything, just what I have chosen to do.

(I did drop a bit of coin on the flip book blanks though - shhhh!)

[Carson]

One thing we can all agree on, the variant covers up to this point have looked sweet!

Eh. I disagree.

Yeah, I didn't care for X-O #1 pullbox variant cover, nor the Bloodshot #1 1:50. Many of them look okay, but not $20+ okay. I do like Aja, Harby #1 1:20, and the QRs, that's about it for me so far. The others just look too normal, a variant should be special IMO.

I didn't care for the X-O pullbox either... but now I'm loving the 3rd print pencil cover! So... I'm guessing it's just the coloring I didn't like.

I second that notion. Colored, I was less than impressed. Penciled, I like it.

[Carson]

In order to survive, Valiant must sell enough books.
In order to sell enough books, Valiant must sell a variety of those books.

If they could sell 50,000 copies of "one version only" books, they probably would.

We want Valiant to make great stories and to publish for a very long time... so that we are entertained.

When we start saying that Valiant should make great stories, publish for a very long time, limit the variants, cut the prices, increase the paper quality, and have more/less words/bubbles/timestamps/pages/previews... we're just being ridiculous.

Well said. I could not agree more. I hope they publish for decades and my kids will one day read Valiant comics.

If they have to publish a ton of variants to make that happen, so be it. I don't think Dino would consciously do anything to hurt the brands chance at longevity. This isn't a short sighted money grab, it's a well thought out strategy to get their books on the LCS shelves. So far, it's working.

It's our job as readers and as fans (not as collectors) to read the books, and if we want to help them grow the business and continue publishing books, then tell other readers about the wonderful books Valiant is producing. They are doing their job by producing quality books and getting the books on the shelves. Our job is to spread the word to other readers that quality comics, unique characters, and tight continuity have returned with the rebirth of Valiant Comics!

Now, let's quit squabbling over variants and go shepherd those poor Marvel and DC readers over to a better brand of comic entertainment.

[Aram]

I for one would love to see a line wide multiple variant policy. Say for every 20 VEI comics ordered in a month, a retailer could then order 1 each of the variants for each title that was included in their order.

For example;

Small lcs monthly Order:
7 X-O
6 harbys
6 bloodshot
4 archer and armstrongs

Total: 23. They would then qualify to order 1 of each titles linewide 1:20 variant for a total of 27 comics. Smaller shops could get variants if they wanted for their customers, and the prices would be more affordable for the crazy variant lovers. I think this could easily provide incentive for smaller shops to place slightly larger orders that are within their means. Everyone wins.

[Elveen]

The market has changed to the point that almost NO comics sell more than 100,000 copies (much less 500,000), and the total of all variants combined is around 50,000 copies... so arguments using the 1990s examples aren't valid.

In order to survive, Valiant must sell enough books.
In order to sell enough books, Valiant must sell a variety of those books.

If they could sell 50,000 copies of "one version only" books, they probably would.

We want Valiant to make great stories and to publish for a very long time... so that we are entertained.

When we start saying that Valiant should make great stories, publish for a very long time, limit the variants, cut the prices, increase the paper quality, and have more/less words/bubbles/timestamps/pages/previews... we're just being ridiculous.

It's even more ridiculous when we try to claim we're not being ridiculous.

Greg, I believe that we are in one accord on this issue.

[cjv]

Not having been buying new comics for the past 15 years, I was wondering:

Aside from the speculator boom and bust in the 90's (caused in part, although far from completely, by speculation on variant comics) is there long term evidence that support the idea that in times of lower publishing numbers, variants help a company?

From my limited knowledge, it seems that some companies produce a crap load of variants (per issue) and it doesn't help them much at all. People don't buy them because the comics are crap.

Are there success stories of small publishers producing variants (or multiple variants) for every issue, and it has kept them in business/increased sales?

While the hypothesis that limited variants will aid a comic book company during times of small print demand seems somewhat reasonable, simply suggesting that as a possibility doesn't make it fact unless there is evidence to support it. And that would have to be counter-weighed with evidence rebutting it. Do we have examples either way? A small publisher being able to stay in business because many variants which allow them to sell enough copies to survive? Or a small publisher producing lots of variants which hasn't helped their numbers? If so, what is the difference between the two?

My hunch is that variants don't mean crap unless the comics themselves are worthwhile. No one wants to buy a 1:100 variants simply because there were only 500 copies made. They want to buy a 1:100 variant because the comic book itself is in demand, and if there are only 500 copies that version of an in demand comic, then prices will probably increase (because let's face it, variants cater almost completely to the speculator/investor market).

Chris

Disclosure: My viewpoint (again) is that as a collector, I don't like variants because I don't want to have to shell out $80 in order to be a completionist. But that is solely on me. As a supporter of Valiant (and to a lesser degree comic book stores), if variants will help Valiant stay in business, and help stores buy/sell Valiant comics, then I am all for them.

[GGSAE]

I for one would love to see a line wide multiple variant policy. Say for every 20 VEI comics ordered in a month, a retailer could then order 1 each of the variants for each title that was included in their order.

For example;

Small lcs monthly Order:
7 X-O
6 harbys
6 bloodshot
4 archer and armstrongs

Total: 23. They would then qualify to order 1 of each titles linewide 1:20 variant for a total of 27 comics. Smaller shops could get variants if they wanted for their customers, and the prices would be more affordable for the crazy variant lovers. I think this could easily provide incentive for smaller shops to place slightly larger orders that are within their means. Everyone wins.

I would like to see something like this moving forward; I mean Dino is not a dumb guy, I read somewhere he has Wharton education, so clearly he understands business. Even if they made it a 1:100 variant title-wide, that still wouldn't be that exclusive because moving forward with 5-8 titles, a lot of stores would hit that ratio. At 1:20 title-wide, the variants would be a lot more accessible, so the collector could pick them up for $5-10 a piece at their LCS. I will try to collect all variants, but it's not a big deal if I don't/can't/won't, I can also hoard the few I really covet. Speaking of which, I still need a full-sized shadowman special edition...anyone?

[grendeljd]

I like the idea of line wide variants... seems more consumer & retailer friendly. I just convinced my LCS to get an A&A 1:100 variant after all, since its a line wide.

I've said it before, personally I'm not big into variants, even though I've been getting the Valiant ones where possible so far [primarily out of an enjoyment of the art & also to support the re-launch].

One thing I DO like about variants is when they are a little more common, ie 1:10 or less, because then they are almost guaranteed to be on the shelves of smaller LCS's across the country. I also like that because when I stroll in to see whats on the shelf [I rarely worry about pre-ordering, other than keeping a small pull-list], I can say hey - there's a choice of covers, allowing me to pick which one cover [or more] has the coolest art, at a reasonable price.

But all this is coming from someone who isn't a completionist, so...

[Chiclo]

Heath, you worry too much about the variants. If you keep worrying so much, you'll make your hair fall out.

[iwantvaliant]

The market has changed to the point that almost NO comics sell more than 100,000 copies (much less 500,000), and the total of all variants combined is around 50,000 copies... so arguments using the 1990s examples aren't valid.

In order to survive, Valiant must sell enough books.
In order to sell enough books, Valiant must sell a variety of those books.

If they could sell 50,000 copies of "one version only" books, they probably would.

We want Valiant to make great stories and to publish for a very long time... so that we are entertained.

When we start saying that Valiant should make great stories, publish for a very long time, limit the variants, cut the prices, increase the paper quality, and have more/less words/bubbles/timestamps/pages/previews... we're just being ridiculous.

It's even more ridiculous when we try to claim we're not being ridiculous.

Great post.

[geocarr]

IF VEI believes they need to continue with variants, I REALLY like the idea of a 1:20 or 1:25 and/or 1:50 line-wide variant that would be realistically attainable for most retailers and collectors.

[tevans333]

IF VEI believes they need to continue with variants, I REALLY like the idea of a 1:20 or 1:25 and/or 1:50 line-wide variant that would be realistically attainable for most retailers and collectors.

They wont need too, but the question is will they want to. The answer to this will define them as a company and the type of customers they have. We wont have an answer for a few months until we see what the winter line up holds. Sometimes it's better to have loyal customers then to have customers riding the latest craze. Do you think VEI will have the same type of fans in 15 years as the Shooter Valiant has today? If the answer is yes, then VEI will be around a LONG time and will undoubtetly be the 3rd largest publisher. If no, then it may be a bumpy uncertain ride.

[Elveen]

When I think of the variant issue I keep coming back to this....

If the books are good, then (almost) whatever they do will be fine. Story quality is the most important thing. If they do bunches of variants AND they keep the quality high then it will be all good.

If people are only collecting BECAUSE of the variants, then it makes me dubious about long term success.