Valiant Variants - Enough!

[paradise]

Four covers for XO #5. Four.

Yeah. I probably won't be doing that.

Don't say it till you see what the incentives are. Pretty special.

[Rubiks-Q-Bert]

Four covers for XO #5. Four.

Yeah. I probably won't be doing that.

Don't say it till you see what the incentives are. Pretty special.

Considering what the cost is for variants it better be one damn good incentive.

[Man Of The Atom]

I always liked that valiant was more innovative than the rest of the industry. VEI is just joining the rest of the industry by doing so many variants.

QR Variant was not innovative? REALLY? First ever talking cover?

It was innovative, but the majority of comic buyers will never know about it since it was on a 1:50 variant. Thats the real shame, it really would have benefited them more if it was the regular cover. Then people would have talked about it and checked it out that would't have otherwise. I bet a ton of people would have picked it up and tried it out on their phones and then bought it, read it and loved it becoming monthly customers. Now those same people may have no idea what X-O Manowar or Valiant is. These innovations should be used to create buzz. Unfortunately this won't make an impact on many if they can't interact with it. Mostly only Valiant fans will get a chance to interact with and see this one in person,

I think that is a good point. I hadn't thought about it like that, but I think you are correct. A lot of people not knowing about Valiant, X-O, and Harbinger would have been intrigued by the talking cover. Maybe they could do a talking cover for one of the regular #1 covers in the future.
I like all the variant covers.

[400yrs]

It was innovative, but the majority of comic buyers will never know about it since it was on a 1:50 variant. Thats the real shame, it really would have benefited them more if it was the regular cover. Then people would have talked about it and checked it out that would't have otherwise. I bet a ton of people would have picked it up and tried it out on their phones and then bought it, read it and loved it becoming monthly customers. Now those same people may have no idea what X-O Manowar or Valiant is. These innovations should be used to create buzz. Unfortunately this won't make an impact on many if they can't interact with it. Mostly only Valiant fans will get a chance to interact with and see this one in person,

Excellent point. Or if they thought it was too risky as the regular cover, they could've made it the "pullbox" cover instead. Then, with most readers having the comic, they could have put a new QR code into a new issue every once in a while along with a new message. THAT could've been innovative. Instead, you have a variant that we here on the site see along with a few hundred other rabid fans who are willing to spend stuping money on a new comic.

Great point, dude!

[400yrs]

At that point, it appears like a blatant gimmick and a desperate grab for cash on VEI's part. VEI is not Dynamite. VEI's books are good. REALLY good! But utilizing Dynamite or IDW style tactics with the variants puts them in the same category as those publishers.

I don't particularly mind all the variants because I've FORCED myself not to mind . However, if the company puts out quality books and fails, this point above is exactly what I and many others will be able to point to as a main contributor to their failure. There is undoubtedly a stigma attached to companies that over-produce variants. You become "that variant company" to potential buyers instead of "Valiant" and that DOES very much take part in the buyer's thoughts in the buying process. I buy books from different publishers, but never even consider books from IDW nor Dynamite because they are "those variant companies." Other buyers / readers are the same. There IS a stigma attached to variant over-producing companies.

VEI's books are good. REALLY good! But utilizing Dynamite or IDW style tactics with the variants puts them in the same category as those publishers. And they shouldn't be there.

For better or worse, they have chosen to FIRMLY plant themselves there. Fred Pierce stated Valiant's goal is to become the #3 publisher in the market again. From their current position and actions, their goal appears to be the following: "to be the best IDW/Dynamite/Variant producing comic company on the market". They are putting themselves on that path.

VEI doesn't put out crap with a bunch of variants to lure speculators.

Well, I guess that's the problem. We didn't know what Valiant "doesn't" do. Apparently, they DO put out a bunch of variants to lure speculators. GRANTED, luring speculators is not their intention, nor the purpose of the variants. HOWEVER, with the continued variants for every issue, speculators end up being the primary buyers of the variants and eventually the majority of the buyers for the regular issues until they grow old of it. Readers will look the other way (see IDW or Dynamite). 90s Re-revisited.

And they shouldn't have that stigma on them - but I fear they will.

Yeppers.





It's certainly their money and their choice and they can do whatever they want to do and I will sit back and enjoy the ride. However, I don't see them ever being any more than a Dynamite / IDW if they continue on this path. The "Innovativeness" or "Newness" wears off when there is a new gimmick with each new release. Sorry, but that's the truth.

[Zaphod]

All this :rant:ing over variants. Look at the big picture. Valiant is back. Let them make 4 variants a cover if it keeps the retailers buying. Keeps em in business so they can keep supplying us with new stuff.

For all of us that have waited on Valiants return since the initial run....we are invested in this relaunch. We may not be stock holders but we all feel attached enough to raise every minute concern we have because we want this to work. Sure some of us might just want to get this return "our way" and that isn't fair, but lets not attempt to judge one from the other and just appreciate that we care enough to debate these things constructively.

Were this arguing about DC or Marvel it would have degenerated along time ago. We all prove by the fact that we are buying the books that we are fans. So just like the variants, if you don't like the rants, just ignore them.

[kevinbastos]

My main concern so far:

Fifth month is now announcing, and we have yet to see one comic without variant covers.

[vikingspawn]

How much have you guys spent on the books/variants so far?

[Heath]

From Another thread:

Is this it?

Are these going to be the only titles released this year? IMO I say yes for now - Maybe a new book in December/January. They have good titles to build a foundation upon and go from there. No need to flood out the product and murk things up. Build with what you have - draw in the readers and then start the second wave.

Only thing that does kinda URK me is the fact that in 4 months time we are looking at at least.

4 - 1:50 Variants (assuming the #1s will be the only talking variants)
10 - 1:20 Variants (possibly assuming that each monthly title will have 1)
10 - Pullbox Variants (pretty much a given this will be an every issue deal)

24 possible variant covers in 4 months - I don't want another Dynamite out there

No more launches for a while.

Variants are unfortunately necessary, however, we are not going crazy with them. I'm working hard to find the right balance between using them to help and making sure you guys don't go broke and can get them all. I know many of you are like me and want to have everything. Each of the launches has 4 covers, after that we scale down. We are a storytelling universe, not a variant universe. I need your help bringing Valiant back and for the opening salvo variants are an important weapon for us.

With all due respect, Dino, I think at this point, with every issue having a variant cover and XO #5 having 4 variants, we've reached the point where you've gone crazy with them. The opening salvo has been launched. Its purpose has been served. I think it's time to really scale back to zero variants and truly be a storytelling universe, not a variant universe.

[400yrs]

How much have you guys spent on the books/variants so far?

So far:

$112 X-O 1s from DCBservice (still missing the 1:50 which I'm *SQUEE* about - at both DCB and Valiant)
$100 X-O 1s from paradise
$65 X-O 1s from LCS
$25 X-O 1s from another LCS
$302 Total on X-O 1s

$112 Harby 1s from DCBservice (still not showing that they filled the 1:50 - yeah, I'm *SQUEE* again)
$100 Harby 1s from paradise
$20 Harby 1s from LCS
$232 on Harby 1s


What do I plan on going forward? Only the regular books and pull boxes so about $8 per issue for the #1s and $4 for non #1s. *SQUEE* the never ending variants and blowing my money on them.

[iggy101us]

The only variants I bought so far are X-O 1:20 and 1:50 (from DCBS at $10 and $25) and Harbinger 1 1:20 ($15 shipped on eBay). Other than that, I don't plan on getting any variants unless there are "cheap". $50 and $100 now for the 1:20 1:50 variants from DCBS are just ridiculously high. For $150, I can be getting 30 used quality trades to read for a long, long time. Or I can get a couple of old-school Unity Reds or CEARs which I'd probably enjoy more.

I am just going to vote with my wallet and not buy variants when they are so expensive.

BTW, I do enjoy the new books and look forward to them but just won't be spending a lot of money on variants.

[superggraphics]

I'm buying the regular and pullbox editions as they are released. If at some point the variants become affordable enough I'll pick them up as well. The thing I'm enjoying the most about the new Valiant books is the quality of storytelling and artwork.

G

[caniac]

So far I've bought:
2 XO #1 1:20s at $20 and $15
2 XO#2 1:20s for $15 each
4 Harby #1 1:20s, 2 at $15, 1 at $14, and the other at $12
Also 2 of each of the regular and pullbox covers for XO and Harby #1

I want to find a XO QR on the cheap and I'll probably get 1 1:20 for Bloodshot and A&A, but it looks like that will be it for me. The more I think about it the less I want to get the variants now...just too much. I'll still get the regular and pullboxes of course.

I really liked the comment about the QR being on the regular XO #1, that probably would have had a huge impact!

[tevans333]

From Another thread:

Is this it?

Are these going to be the only titles released this year? IMO I say yes for now - Maybe a new book in December/January. They have good titles to build a foundation upon and go from there. No need to flood out the product and murk things up. Build with what you have - draw in the readers and then start the second wave.

Only thing that does kinda URK me is the fact that in 4 months time we are looking at at least.

4 - 1:50 Variants (assuming the #1s will be the only talking variants)
10 - 1:20 Variants (possibly assuming that each monthly title will have 1)
10 - Pullbox Variants (pretty much a given this will be an every issue deal)

24 possible variant covers in 4 months - I don't want another Dynamite out there

No more launches for a while.

Variants are unfortunately necessary, however, we are not going crazy with them. I'm working hard to find the right balance between using them to help and making sure you guys don't go broke and can get them all. I know many of you are like me and want to have everything. Each of the launches has 4 covers, after that we scale down. We are a storytelling universe, not a variant universe. I need your help bringing Valiant back and for the opening salvo variants are an important weapon for us.

With all due respect, Dino, I think at this point, with every issue having a variant cover and XO #5 having 4 variants, we've reached the point where you've gone crazy with them. The opening salvo has been launched. Its purpose has been served. I think it's time to really scale back to zero variants and truly be a storytelling universe, not a variant universe.

I agree that the line has been crossed. It is more than understandable that when launching a new company/universe that there would be variants to help out, but now that I see 2nd issues with variants and 5th issues with 4, I am getting very turned off. Valiant has a VERY strong brand and doesn't need this to drive sales. That is evidenced by the X-O 1 sell out. Sure it was beyond what anyone expected, but now you know were Valiants brand stands, so use that knowledge to adapt and tone down the variants.

Seeing the current issues of X-O and Harbinger offered at 10 for $10 (That's 75% cover!) is sickening to say the least. I know everyone has found treasures in the bargain bin, but most people will see that and assume they were junk books that no one wanted:(

Valiant has such a loyal and strong following because they put the consumer first. They produced quality books and used innovative approaches to sell books that added value to the costumer, not take it away. In order to be successful all 3 stakeholders (publisher, retailer, consumer) need to be satisfied. In the current arrangement of variant driven sales only the publisher and retailer are satisfied. This only leads to short term gains and hurts long term. By adding value to the consumer you gain a monthly subscriber who it satisfied, which leads to satisfied retailers and publisher.

Valiant WAS a consumer driven company. They added value by giving out a free book (back before free comic book day) Unity 0, this exposed new readers to the universe. They also used coupons to obtain another free book. This caused readers to branch out to other titles, much like a crossover, but instead added value by getting a rare book for free. Same with the promotions for gold variants, these variants were free back in the day to the consumer as well. I must have gotten a dozen free back then. They ran a promo that if you put the Valiant logo on something and took a picture of it in public they would send you a gold. BRILLIANT! I became a Valiant Fan for life, visiting my local retailer every Wednesday and buying each Valiant title. Now because of the great goodwill they built up with the consumer, we are still here 20 years later. These variants are eroding away at that goodwill.

Sure variants in moderation are nice, who doesn't enjoy a nice treasure or two in their collection? The comics industry has been around long enough that we need to study what has and hasn't worked up to this point. The 90's valiant built up a strong and loyal following, examine what they did right...

[Blood of Heroes]

There are plenty of original VALIANT variants I don't have. There will be lots of new VALIANT variants I won't get. I'm not going to lose any sleep over either one.

The only thing I want is for VALIANT to put out quality books and I will keep buying one of each, not one of each variant.

If too many variants end up killing the company, so be it. They're making their bed and are going to lie in it, but they seem to know what they're doing so far...

[Heath]

tevans333, great post. Well said! And welcome to the board.

[depluto]

At this point they could put out 100 variants a month and I wouldn't really care ... still just gonna buy one of each book (although I get the pullbox variants just to kick in a little extra for the launch effort). I figure somewhere down the road I'll see some 1/20s sitting in a $3 box at a convention and I'll get them then.

But I would hate to see the cheap bins fill up with new Valiant stuff, though, and that's the only concern I have with variants ... that dealers won't be able to get rid of all the regular books they order just to get to the variants.

[jmatt]

Four covers for XO #5. Four.

Yeah. I probably won't be doing that.

Don't say it till you see what the incentives are. Pretty special.

Darn you! Now I'm back to riding the fence on the matter. I guess I'll have to wait and see....

[etos45]

I am just going to vote with my wallet and not buy variants when they are so expensive.

Amen. This is me. I will buy no more variants (outside of Aja, because I love that guy! )

[Spagg]

I don't mind some variants, but I think VEI should reign it in a bit.

[GGSAE]

Seeing the current issues of X-O and Harbinger offered at 10 for $10 (That's 75% cover!) is sickening to say the least. I know everyone has found treasures in the bargain bin, but most people will see that and assume they were junk books that no one wanted.

I hope Dino and company really look at this, because this is a huge implication of the variants. Case in point I stopped by a shop yesterday in a new town, and chatted with the guy about the industry. He was a solid guy, gave me a discount on his last VF+ copy of X-O 2, but we chatted about his inventory of all the old *SQUEE* Valiants from the 90s - deathmate, etc.

That stigma is still there! This company needs to work even harder to eliminate that.

[GGSAE]

At this point they could put out 100 variants a month and I wouldn't really care ... still just gonna buy one of each book (although I get the pullbox variants just to kick in a little extra for the launch effort). I figure somewhere down the road I'll see some 1/20s sitting in a $3 box at a convention and I'll get them then.

But I would hate to see the cheap bins fill up with new Valiant stuff, though, and that's the only concern I have with variants ... that dealers won't be able to get rid of all the regular books they order just to get to the variants.

If the 1:20 variants end up in $3 bins, then Greg's pricing model of retailer profitability has failed and the company will not last. Valiant has to consider what the retailer can expect to get from the sale of each product, coupled with the risk of excess leftover copies, and then diminishing opinion of the readers who are ultimately the end-users. It will be difficult to attract sustainable long-term readers if Valiant falls into the mold of those dynamite, IDW, etc., companies.

[jmatt]

I expect that at some point soon we're gonna see an interviewer bring up the matter of numerous variants with a Valiant interviewee on one of the comic news sites.

[FormerReader]

Let me start off with I don't collect comics outside of Valiant and I don't know much about the market.

That being said do other comic companies do the same? Marvel, DC, Image?

[caxiotis]

How much have you guys spent on the books/variants so far?

So far I have spent the following on X-O (and I have been tracking every cent):

Bought 3 #1 (1:50 variants) fom Paradise and DCBS
Bought 5 #1 (1:20 variants) from Paradise, DCBS, and my LCS
Bought 8 #1 Pullbox from Paradise, Midtown, my LCS
Bought 8 #1 Regular from Paradise, Midtown, my LCS
Bought 4 #2 Regular from my LCS and DCBS
Bought 2 #2 Variants from Paradise and DCBS
Total Cost of $255.62

BUT I have also sold $201.84 worth of X-O comics (net of paypal fees, ebay fees, and shipping), so I have spent net $53.78 on X-O and still have the following for my collection:

QTY.
1 - #1 1:50
1 - #1 1:20
2 - #1 Pullbox
2 - #1 Regular
3 - #2 Regular
2 - #2 Variant

So after sales I am not doing that bad on buying variants. Also, the books I got from Paradise were the best condition of anything I got from my LCS or DCBS, so those are the books I still have in my collection.