Is VEI dead or dying?

Zaphod · Post by **Zaphod** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:48 pm

greg wrote:
Zaphod wrote:Its poor form on either side of the fence to assume or read too much into anything less than an official statement from the company. It is the lack of those that is troubling to at least myself.
It's also poor form to say anything that isn't publicly available when you have been sworn to secrecy.

I'm not necessarily saying that I've been sworn to secrecy on anything,
but I am pointing out that all I have said here is publicly available.

very true. I don't trust those people who quote "inside information" either. In my opinion though, having no presence at the "Cons" is a mistake. Advertising is vital and those are this companie's core audience. Coca Cola doesn't need to advertise, the world knows what the hell it is but it is one of the biggest spenders on advertising in the world.

I just question VEIs business model and future vitality with what it has released so far, which is unfortunate.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:52 pm

I'm just waiting. Doing other stuff in the meantime.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:02 pm

I think VEI doesn't do cons yet because they aren't big enough to hire security... y'know, to keep us here on this site from mobbing them. Maybe they saw what it was like at the Big Apple show from '06.....

-slym (

)

jbtheo · Post by **jbtheo** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:45 pm

I've been a member for a while, but haven't posted anything in a long time. I've been reading about this new intern job posting, and well, here's my two-cents on this whole "no news is good/bad news" thing (after reading, please be gentle if you think I'm a terd

):

In regards to the Intern job posting, this person, if the job description is any indication, will be in charge of updating the website. Whether or not that will be on a regular basis is yet to be seen, but that is a good thing--maybe we'll actually start getting news. Their needing someone to help out with running the business may be a sign of good things to come. Just HIRING someone is a sign of good things to come. We'll see.

I haven't stopped by their site in a while, mainly because everytime I come back, there is nothing new to see. I am no expert, but having a tidbit about a movie being optioned out is cool at first, but it is only the first step in a long line of deals before it is even put into pre-production. I wonder if they even have a script yet? And now, months later, it just seems kind of like "shrug my shoulders and move on" kind of news. Like most everyone here, I want to see new comics. That is easy to say, since I am not the one spending the money on producing these comics.

Comic books in and of themselves don't cost THAT much to produce. It's when you want to make money doing it that it becomes a problem

As I recall, VEI spent around $800-900K for these properties (which, stop me if I'm wrong, seems like a pretty good deal). But, they are obviously in this to make money, and unfortunately the comic book business is very hard to make money in.

If they were doing it for the sheer love of it all, we'd have 8 Valiant comics on the shelves aready, and they'd be up to issue 16 or 17 by now and they would all be written by Jim Shooter and drawn by BWS and inked by Bob Layton and it would be like 1992 again and we'll all love it too.

It does take very careful planning (and as you recall, if my history is correct, Valiant's superhero line didn't come out right away either back in the day when Shooter was EiC; it was all very carefully planned). This market is filled to the brim with Spider-Man and Batman and Green Lantern and Final Crisis this and Captain America Reborn that, that there really is little room for anything else on the shelves at comic shops. The comic book market has once again become all about the Big Two (yes--I know. It has ALWAYS been about the Big Two). What I am trying to say is that Comic Store owners in today's market are not willing to throw money at anything OTHER THAN Marvel or DC. I mean, Image and Dark Horse sell VERY little compared to DC or Marvel. Very little. And Valiant? They may have a past of being a top comic company, but that was 15 years ago. They have to start at the bottom again.

I guess my point is that we are all big fans here, and have to realize that VEI is a business and wants to make money. They will not publish something if it will lose money. Because that makes no sense. It is very frustrating not hearing ANY news about ANYTHING in, what, over a year now? But, hopefully, we'll hear something soon. I think we all want the best case scenerio with the books being top sellers again, but the reality is that that probably won't happen. It will garner some hype to be sure at first, but that hype could die away pretty fast.

What I WISH VEI would do is publish weekly online comics, if anything to start building a universe again. But, no one has come up with a way to publish comics online and make good money doing it. Maybe Valiant could be the first?

I hope that all made sense.

terreth · Post by **terreth** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:50 pm

jbtheo wrote:I've been a member for a while, but haven't posted anything in a long time. I've been reading about this new intern job posting, and well, here's my two-cents on this whole "no news is good/bad news" thing (after reading, please be gentle if you think I'm a terd ):

In regards to the Intern job posting, this person, if the job description is any indication, will be in charge of updating the website. Whether or not that will be on a regular basis is yet to be seen, but that is a good thing--maybe we'll actually start getting news. Their needing someone to help out with running the business may be a sign of good things to come. Just HIRING someone is a sign of good things to come. We'll see.

I haven't stopped by their site in a while, mainly because everytime I come back, there is nothing new to see. I am no expert, but having a tidbit about a movie being optioned out is cool at first, but it is only the first step in a long line of deals before it is even put into pre-production. I wonder if they even have a script yet? And now, months later, it just seems kind of like "shrug my shoulders and move on" kind of news. Like most everyone here, I want to see new comics. That is easy to say, since I am not the one spending the money on producing these comics.

Comic books in and of themselves don't cost THAT much to produce. It's when you want to make money doing it that it becomes a problem

As I recall, VEI spent around $800-900K for these properties (which, stop me if I'm wrong, seems like a pretty good deal). But, they are obviously in this to make money, and unfortunately the comic book business is very hard to make money in.

If they were doing it for the sheer love of it all, we'd have 8 Valiant comics on the shelves aready, and they'd be up to issue 16 or 17 by now and they would all be written by Jim Shooter and drawn by BWS and inked by Bob Layton and it would be like 1992 again and we'll all love it too.

It does take very careful planning (and as you recall, if my history is correct, Valiant's superhero line didn't come out right away either back in the day when Shooter was EiC; it was all very carefully planned). This market is filled to the brim with Spider-Man and Batman and Green Lantern and Final Crisis this and Captain America Reborn that, that there really is little room for anything else on the shelves at comic shops. The comic book market has once again become all about the Big Two (yes--I know. It has ALWAYS been about the Big Two). What I am trying to say is that Comic Store owners in today's market are not willing to throw money at anything OTHER THAN Marvel or DC. I mean, Image and Dark Horse sell VERY little compared to DC or Marvel. Very little. And Valiant? They may have a past of being a top comic company, but that was 15 years ago. They have to start at the bottom again.

I guess my point is that we are all big fans here, and have to realize that VEI is a business and wants to make money. They will not publish something if it will lose money. Because that makes no sense. It is very frustrating not hearing ANY news about ANYTHING in, what, over a year now? But, hopefully, we'll hear something soon. I think we all want the best case scenerio with the books being top sellers again, but the reality is that that probably won't happen. It will garner some hype to be sure at first, but that hype could die away pretty fast.

What I WISH VEI would do is publish weekly online comics, if anything to start building a universe again. But, no one has come up with a way to publish comics online and make good money doing it. Maybe Valiant could be the first?

I hope that all made sense.

Good post

dave · Post by **dave** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:58 pm

I didn't understand greg's post-did he go with dead? or dying?

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:02 pm

I agree, good post jb.

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:08 pm

dave wrote:I didn't understand greg's post-did he go with dead? or dying?

Neither, I believe.

-slym

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:07 am

geocarr wrote:
daydreamscomics wrote:What is interesting is that recently we have been receiving a smaller catalogue with all independent companies in it. It's from a smaller distibution company, or a series of companies networking, trying to get around the recent changes set forth by Diamond.
I would like more information about this smaller catalogue if you have it and are willing to share it. Thanks!

http://www.havendistro.com/

I did a thread on this somewhere

but as usual i cant find it.

These guys will take the same as Diamond for their efforts, but will actually take your comic to sell and wont expect miracles.

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:12 am

greg wrote:
Zaphod wrote:Its poor form on either side of the fence to assume or read too much into anything less than an official statement from the company. It is the lack of those that is troubling to at least myself.
It's also poor form to say anything that isn't publicly available when you have been sworn to secrecy.

I'm not necessarily saying that I've been sworn to secrecy on anything,
but I am pointing out that all I have said here is publicly available.

I guess is frustrating when you quite clearly know something, but cannot give details that would squash any negative vibes.

I think im done with this discusson now, leaving it happy in the knowledge that enough was said here that IMO points only to a positive future for VEI.

Nuff said.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:04 am

The one thing that keeps me thinking there might yet be hope is to remember that when Voyager launched Valiant in 1989, it took them until 1991 to get the universe started and that before that, it had taken them about a year to get the Nintendo & Wrestling books going. However, it is now 2009 and the market is much different. Perhaps instead of making the same mistakes as last time, the new Valiant has learned from prior troubles and have a slow, steady plan we know nothing about. It might be KILLING the fans, but if in the end, it works in a way which ensures that the company survives, then I think a lot will be forgiven. I would love to have SOMETHING to hang my hat on by the end of the year. I do think that the lack of updates for what is now a solid year PLUS, is what has gotten many people to abandon ship. Nobody is asking VEI to divulge private concerns. Nobody is asking for sordid details. However, I think a simple "we're still here" would go a long way. And yet, if that alone constitutes giving away too much, then how paranoid have we become?

SolarGod · Post by **SolarGod** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:33 am

Dead or dying ...... either way i'm losing interest fast. A year without any official updates.
There does seem to be a little disrespect in regards to keeping fans updated.

jbtheo · Post by **jbtheo** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:51 pm

I think it is important to remember that as long as there is an offical VEI website to go to, that in and of itself says "we're still here."

The "no news is good news" mantra probably doesn't apply here, as news for companies usually means they are either making money or losing money. It seems like VEI isn't making ANY money, based on that notion. Why else would they hire an unpaid intern instead of a paid production assistant? But, like I said before, hiring ANYBODY, even an intern, is usually a sign of growth, or wanting to grow.

Crow331 · Post by **Crow331** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:00 pm

jbtheo wrote:I think it is important to remember that as long as there is an offical VEI website to go to, that in and of itself says "we're still here."

I don't know about that! Plenty of companies have gone under only to have their website live on until their domain expires and isn't renewed! That's no indication!

SolarGod wrote:Dead or dying ...... either way i'm losing interest fast. A year without any official updates.
There does seem to be a little disrespect in regards to keeping fans updated.

I totally agree with this statement. Disrespectful if you ask me. ANYTHING is better than nothing.

I too have "inside information" and I'm growing tired. With the amount of people with inside information it seems like the whole board knows something! They might as well just spill it! I had no idea that I was going to have to hang onto it so long!!!

Draco · Post by **Draco** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:17 pm

So many good posts.

MoonChild · Post by **MoonChild** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:19 pm

I honestly hope that they are workin hard on releasing something new but if they are not I honestly hope that they pass the ball quickly so that these beloved characters can see the light of day once more and for good. A joint venture with Dark Horse sounds like a real good idea to me, especially if VEI wants to focus on lincensing properties. This way we get the best of both worlds: new books and new media like games, movies & toys.

TDarke · Post by **TDarke** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:24 pm

At this point I would be content with them slowly releasing all of the pre-Unity and Unity books in hardcover collections.

wrunow · Post by **wrunow** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:54 pm

xodacia81 wrote:The one thing that keeps me thinking there might yet be hope is to remember that when Voyager launched Valiant in 1989, it took them until 1991 to get the universe started and that before that, it had taken them about a year to get the Nintendo & Wrestling books going. However, it is now 2009 and the market is much different. Perhaps instead of making the same mistakes as last time, the new Valiant has learned from prior troubles and have a slow, steady plan we know nothing about. It might be KILLING the fans, but if in the end, it works in a way which ensures that the company survives, then I think a lot will be forgiven. I would love to have SOMETHING to hang my hat on by the end of the year. I do think that the lack of updates for what is now a solid year PLUS, is what has gotten many people to abandon ship. Nobody is asking VEI to divulge private concerns. Nobody is asking for sordid details. However, I think a simple "we're still here" would go a long way. And yet, if that alone constitutes giving away too much, then how paranoid have we become?

All the people who are complaining and "jumping ship" so to say will the first ones looking for the limited edition "ValiantFans.com" issues when they do actually publish.

Of course I will be right there in line with them

Also, probably the best sign they are "still there" is that they still have employees on staff, Walter is still there, and they have had a couple of marketing people I believe. . If they weren't for real they wouldn't bother with payroll concerns and employees at all, much less be looking for interns.

Keep the faith

jbtheo · Post by **jbtheo** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:13 pm

Really? I didn't know that could happen. Seriously. I thought that once someone stops paying for a website, or a company folds, the website just goes dead. How funny.

Crow331 wrote:
jbtheo wrote:I think it is important to remember that as long as there is an offical VEI website to go to, that in and of itself says "we're still here."
I don't know about that! Plenty of companies have gone under only to have their website live on until their domain expires and isn't renewed! That's no indication!

turborip · Post by **turborip** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:15 pm

jbtheo wrote:Really? I didn't know that could happen. Seriously. I thought that once someone stops paying for a website, or a company folds, the website just goes dead. How funny.

No, as mentioned, you can have a company go under and have their domain and website continue on for a LONG time afterward, depending what the arrangements were. I helped a guy on a website that's paid his domain registration through 2011 or some such. Hosting can be paid monthly or in other ways that until someone actually shuts off the automatic payment or the money runs out, the site could keep going.

Please note that I am in NO WAY saying this is where VEI is at!

daydreamscomics · Post by **daydreamscomics** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:29 pm

Crow331 wrote:I too have "inside information" and I'm growing tired. With the amount of people with inside information it seems like the whole board knows something! They might as well just spill it! I had no idea that I was going to have to hang onto it so long!!!

then put your money where you mouth is so to speak: spill what you know. otherwise, don't *SQUEE*...

Crow331 · Post by **Crow331** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:08 am

One of the head honchos swore me to secrecy months ago, but if this keeps up (nothing!), I just might!

Squirrel · Post by **Squirrel** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:15 am

Crow331 wrote:One of the head honchos swore me to secrecy months ago, but if this keeps up (nothing!), I just might!

why even bring it up if your not gonna spill? To make yourself look like the "guy in the know"

Phantom.. · Post by **Phantom..** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:30 am

Maybe he i givng positive vibes, giving us hope.

Plus I have no reason to dought crow, we have PM'ed and he has been in contact with Dino.

I know this as as I am working on a project with crow on that one.

But I to would like some news ~ but crow will not give. But I still want nfo, as Dino ifnot saying publically, can say anything he wants

Squirrel · Post by **Squirrel** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:50 am

its not the point that he has info or not. Its the point that if he has nothing to share at this moment why mention that he has something but cant say anything? What does that give us ? Hope? I don't see it....."there's something i know but i cant tell you yet" doesn't give me hope. hell he could pop up and say they are shutting the whole thing down, wheres the hope in hearing that?