New Solar and Magnus stories

nutflush76 · Post by **nutflush76** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:38 am

I think these books can work at Dark Horse.

As far as how the books fit into the Dark Horse "universe" well, there isn't one really.

Is there?

I bet that Dark Horse creates a Universe from the Gold Key characters i.e. Magnus, Solar, Doktor Spektor, Turok, etc..

I think that VEI could use the characters left and make them into a good, cohesive universe. I don't see much how the 41st century stories can work without Magnus, but I do see how they could use Phil Seleski/Solar in the present.

Seleski could very well work as "Man of the Atom" or something along those lines. He would probably have to be closer to the blue version in the acclaim comics, but at least the principle is the same.

Face it. The new universe is going to HAVE to be different from the old or else the stories would never change. They are really gonna have to be different now since a number of the major characters are going to be seemingly unavailable for the new universe.

If we ever get anything besides Hardcover reprints.

Geomancer · Post by **Geomancer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:48 am

I agree, nutflush.

It would seem that some form of retcon will now be required.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:53 am

When VEI makes a major comic publishing announcement I've no doubt this board will blow up over it. Meantime, Dark Horse made an announcement today that's carrying the day here, and rightly so imo.

Geomancer · Post by **Geomancer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:56 am

Great post Jay Tomio!

I agree that the characters are in great hands with Dark Horse.

At the risk of sounding like a heretic again, could VEI license characters to Dark Horse as well?

They could still pursue movie deals, etc.

How about the prospects of a dark Horse/VEI partnership that could result in something closer to the superhero universe many of us hope to see?

There are still many great characters in VEI's stable. What looks like a setback - could turn out to be a creative boost. So VEI could easily go it alone - with the kind of creative talent they've lined up on their projects so far.

Geomancer · Post by **Geomancer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:57 am

StarBrand wrote:When VEI makes a major comic publishing announcement I've no doubt this board will blow up over it. Meantime, Dark Horse made an announcement today that's carrying the day here, and rightly so imo.

When looked at in a certain way - this is definitely a day for celebration. New comics for Solar and Magnus!

nutflush76 · Post by **nutflush76** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:00 am

I agree, Jay, that no announcement at comic-con doesn't mean that nothing is happening.

But I think that it does put the goal of a new line of books (or even a book) being published by the end of the year into some serious jeopardy. They would still have to bring on an EIC and a head writer. I can't think that too much planning (at least for the type of continuity Valiant is famous for) can be going on without these two important pieces of the puzzle in place.

If the EIC and head writer are currently under contract with other companies why can't they announce it?

Announcements come all the time about writers currently under contract with one company going to another company. jeph Loeb and Ed McGuinness jumping from DC to Marvel comes to mind.

Again, I do think that new books will come from VEI but I think they may be a lot farther off than a lot of us think.

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:41 am

Valiant Solar and Gold Key/Dark Horse Solar are the same in name only.

Presumably, you can have the Phil Seleski character, which is NOT the same as the Gold Key character, still in the Valiant Unverse. Just use a different name.

Magnus is a different story, since it is the same character as the Gold Key Magnus.

Chris

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:15 pm

Considering that Dark Horse has made no official statement at SDCC (the newsarama story could be a mistake) or on their website, I chalk this up to rumor and wait for the official word.

Geomancer · Post by **Geomancer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:23 pm

cjv wrote:Valiant Solar and Gold Key/Dark Horse Solar are the same in name only.

Presumably, you can have the Phil Seleski character, which is NOT the same as the Gold Key character, still in the Valiant Unverse. Just use a different name.

Magnus is a different story, since it is the same character as the Gold Key Magnus.

Chris

I can see a powerful being trying to make a fresh attempt at a normal life and adopting a new costumed identity. No need to even mention he was Solar in a previous life.

I can see Rai coming to the 21st century and playing the role for the future that Eternal Warrior plays for the past. The 41st century can be revisited through an inter-company crossover.

Even Dark Horse doesn't look to be getting Turok.

I'm sure there are far more clever and well thought out takes on a non-Gold Key VEI. In any case, if VEI does get into ongoing comic book series - they have plenty of material for a VEI universe.

UnknownTales · Post by **UnknownTales** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:47 pm

What is your evidence to the below statement? Is your statement FACT or OPINION?

"VEI definitely tried."

VEI did not release any news at the con and they were silent at SDCC---a huge mistake I believe. 125,000 atendees and nothing for fans to chew on.

greg wrote:
VHMMV wrote:You snooze, you lose, VEI.

If they just assumed that Classic Media would license them the characters, they were dead wrong.

Honestly, the Solar and Magnus licenses are things which they should have locked down long ago. For all we know, they tried and failed. For all we know, they didn't try at all. It'd be nice to know, one way or the other.
VEI definitely tried.

Let's face it, VEI isn't as established as Dark Horse.

When the Magnus license was granted to iBooks... it was a flop. With Louise Simonson... flop.
...and iBooks was more established than VEI.

Perhaps the Magnus managers said, "No more little guy licenses..." and chose Dark Horse.

The question will be... can Magnus stand alone? Can Dr. Solar work without Valiant?

There's a reason that these books ended in the 1980s...
There's a reason that these books were only popular again because of Valiant.

I think it will be clear in a year or two that Magnus and Solar won't work without Valiant.

What is Solar going to do? Be a god to the regular world?
Be a god to Dark Horse characters? Which ones?

Something about the whole concept seems strange... like dropping Superman into Hellboy.

Magnus will at least have his regular cast of characters... but what will they do?

I'm sure that a "pitch" was made by Dark Horse, and the licensors obviously bought it,
but I'm not sure that they realize what made those characters great in the 1990s wasn't
that they were "stand alone"... but they were part of something big.

Take them out, and you're asking the characters to carry the whole load separately...
I personally don't think they can do it.

Sadly, it looks like we'll have to wait.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:11 pm

When I read that JMS is bringing the Red CIrcle heroes to DC, I get excited. The right creative team could make DH's effort very appealing and even successful.

Perhaps PLAYING GOD will fix ALL of this and not just the one apparent one. Once "god" appeared without a visor, I kind of expected this.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:34 pm

JMS helps most any cause he is attached to

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:26 pm

UnknownTales wrote:What is your evidence to the below statement? Is your statement FACT or OPINION?

"VEI definitely tried."

Fact.

The evidence is only that I am testifying that it is a fact.

Whether you consider my witness of any value is up to you.

chainnball · Post by **chainnball** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:09 pm

Who's Greg?

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:10 pm

greg wrote:
VHMMV wrote:You snooze, you lose, VEI.

If they just assumed that Classic Media would license them the characters, they were dead wrong.

Honestly, the Solar and Magnus licenses are things which they should have locked down long ago. For all we know, they tried and failed. For all we know, they didn't try at all. It'd be nice to know, one way or the other.
VEI definitely tried.

Let's face it, VEI isn't as established as Dark Horse.

When the Magnus license was granted to iBooks... it was a flop. With Louise Simonson... flop.
...and iBooks was more established than VEI.

Perhaps the Magnus managers said, "No more little guy licenses..." and chose Dark Horse.

The question will be... can Magnus stand alone? Can Dr. Solar work without Valiant?

There's a reason that these books ended in the 1980s...
There's a reason that these books were only popular again because of Valiant.

I think it will be clear in a year or two that Magnus and Solar won't work without Valiant.

What is Solar going to do? Be a god to the regular world?
Be a god to Dark Horse characters? Which ones?

Something about the whole concept seems strange... like dropping Superman into Hellboy.

Magnus will at least have his regular cast of characters... but what will they do?

I'm sure that a "pitch" was made by Dark Horse, and the licensors obviously bought it,
but I'm not sure that they realize what made those characters great in the 1990s wasn't
that they were "stand alone"... but they were part of something big.

Take them out, and you're asking the characters to carry the whole load separately...
I personally don't think they can do it.

Sadly, it looks like we'll have to wait.

I don't see why a new Valiant universe couldn't use Solar at the same time Dark Horse is creating totally new content or content based off the GK books. The Solar in the Valiant universe is Phil Seleski become Solar, the way he manifests himself from his experiences in reading about the GK character.

VEI should continue to push for the GK characters by arguing (to both Classic Media and Dark Horse) that it will have no bearing on other licensees.

IMHO.

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:13 pm

chainnball wrote:Who's Greg?

Some nerd. Ignore at your own peril.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:50 pm

more cgc 9.8s for ya to get

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:21 pm

I did not read all of these posts.... but I am bummed that Solar and Magnus will not be part of DNV.

I also wish that VEI had a booth at SDCC with something.... a sketch book, and SDCC exclusive new Valiant book.

I am kinda bummed. But I will say, that while Solar was the kingpin of the early Val uni, I would say.... not so much after......

So I think VEI can do without Solar and Magnus...... again for me it goes back to: great writing, good art, and creativity.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:04 am

ckb wrote:
greg wrote:
VHMMV wrote:You snooze, you lose, VEI.

If they just assumed that Classic Media would license them the characters, they were dead wrong.

Honestly, the Solar and Magnus licenses are things which they should have locked down long ago. For all we know, they tried and failed. For all we know, they didn't try at all. It'd be nice to know, one way or the other.
VEI definitely tried.

Let's face it, VEI isn't as established as Dark Horse.

When the Magnus license was granted to iBooks... it was a flop. With Louise Simonson... flop.
...and iBooks was more established than VEI.

Perhaps the Magnus managers said, "No more little guy licenses..." and chose Dark Horse.

The question will be... can Magnus stand alone? Can Dr. Solar work without Valiant?

There's a reason that these books ended in the 1980s...
There's a reason that these books were only popular again because of Valiant.

I think it will be clear in a year or two that Magnus and Solar won't work without Valiant.

What is Solar going to do? Be a god to the regular world?
Be a god to Dark Horse characters? Which ones?

Something about the whole concept seems strange... like dropping Superman into Hellboy.

Magnus will at least have his regular cast of characters... but what will they do?

I'm sure that a "pitch" was made by Dark Horse, and the licensors obviously bought it,
but I'm not sure that they realize what made those characters great in the 1990s wasn't
that they were "stand alone"... but they were part of something big.

Take them out, and you're asking the characters to carry the whole load separately...
I personally don't think they can do it.

Sadly, it looks like we'll have to wait.
I don't see why a new Valiant universe couldn't use Solar at the same time Dark Horse is creating totally new content or content based off the GK books. The Solar in the Valiant universe is Phil Seleski become Solar, the way he manifests himself from his experiences in reading about the GK character.

VEI should continue to push for the GK characters by arguing (to both Classic Media and Dark Horse) that it will have no bearing on other licensees.

IMHO.

Except that generally I assume that exclusivity within a given field of media is part of the licence. Any proposal such as yours will devalue the worth of the licence. To make arguements to the contrary is wishful thinking at best.

The only thing I can see as potentially safe (and I am no lawyer, just trying to think logically) is the Phil Seleski persona, sans any trappings that have any similarity to Doctor Solar, which would probably preclude the Man of the Atom phrase/name, and any appearance remotely resembling the GK version.

UnknownTales · Post by **UnknownTales** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:33 am

What are your facts?

greg wrote:
UnknownTales wrote:What is your evidence to the below statement? Is your statement FACT or OPINION?

"VEI definitely tried."
Fact.

The evidence is only that I am testifying that it is a fact.

Whether you consider my witness of any value is up to you.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:03 am

UnknownTales wrote:What are your facts?

greg wrote:
UnknownTales wrote:What is your evidence to the below statement? Is your statement FACT or OPINION?

"VEI definitely tried."
Fact.

The evidence is only that I am testifying that it is a fact.

Whether you consider my witness of any value is up to you.

UnknownTales: please simmer down a tad, hey? Think a moment. You ask for facts, well the only source of such facts that you would seem prepared to accept seems to be more than a person's word, in which case you may be waiting because businesses simply don't put all of their information out to all and sundry, not least on internet message boards.

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:14 am

Jay Tomio wrote:That's a good point, however if that is true Newsarama really is in a precarious position quoting the head of DH in manner if it didn't happen. It's either highly incompetent or just stupid (neither would be surprising).

I mean even major news outlets make mistakes now and then (in some cases more than others like Faux...I mean Fox News).
While I've never been to SDCC I've been to Chicago Comic Con twice and those shows were loud.

I mean it's quite possible that the DH representative may have misunderstood the question and gave the wrong answer (or newsarama guy misunderstood the answer). It's also possible that they were very tied at the time (Peter David said on his site that he was exhausted by the show's end) and was trying to get back to hotel and gets the guy bugging him for answers.
I mean don't you find it funny that this guys gets this story by corning DH rep backstage? If DH had the rights locked down why didn't they announce to the fans at the show instead of some backstage interview?

I'm sorry but I find this story questionable. If I'm wrong I'll admit to it but I think we should wait for official word from VEI and/or DH before people
start freaking out.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:21 am

Cyberstrike wrote:
Jay Tomio wrote:That's a good point, however if that is true Newsarama really is in a precarious position quoting the head of DH in manner if it didn't happen. It's either highly incompetent or just stupid (neither would be surprising).
I mean even major news outlets make mistakes now and then (in some cases more than others like Faux...I mean Fox News).
While I've never been to SDCC I've been to Chicago Comic Con twice and those shows were loud.

I mean it's quite possible that the DH representative may have misunderstood the question and gave the wrong answer (or newsarama guy misunderstood the answer). It's also possible that they were very tied at the time (Peter David said on his site that he was exhausted by the show's end) and was trying to get back to hotel and gets the guy bugging him for answers.
I mean don't you find it funny that this guys gets this story by corning DH rep backstage? If DH had the rights locked down why didn't they announce to the fans at the show instead of some backstage interview?

I'm sorry but I find this story questionable. If I'm wrong I'll admit to it but I think we should wait for official word from VEI and/or DH before people
start freaking out.

You do make some good points.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:25 am

Cyberstrike wrote:
Jay Tomio wrote:That's a good point, however if that is true Newsarama really is in a precarious position quoting the head of DH in manner if it didn't happen. It's either highly incompetent or just stupid (neither would be surprising).
I mean even major news outlets make mistakes now and then (in some cases more than others like Faux...I mean Fox News).
While I've never been to SDCC I've been to Chicago Comic Con twice and those shows were loud.

Re-read the article and you will see that the din would not have been the issue.

I mean it's quite possible that the DH representative may have misunderstood the question and gave the wrong answer (or newsarama guy misunderstood the answer). It's also possible that they were very tied at the time (Peter David said on his site that he was exhausted by the show's end) and was trying to get back to hotel and gets the guy bugging him for answers.

That was no simple 'representative', the individual quoted is the President of Dark Horse:

The quote from him was pretty clear and unambiguous:

"We've been republishing collections of the Gold Key Magnus and Solar, Man of the Atom, books for a reason," he said, backstage in the Dark Horse booth at the San Diego Comic Con. "When those are done, we'll be coming out with new adventures."

I mean don't you find it funny that this guys gets this story by corning DH rep backstage? If DH had the rights locked down why didn't they announce to the fans at the show instead of some backstage interview?

This could be the reason:
"He was not ready to announce the creative teams on the new books, or what other Gold Key books were in the mix. "

I'm sorry but I find this story questionable. If I'm wrong I'll admit to it but I think we should wait for official word from VEI and/or DH before people start freaking out.

The article is pretty unambiguous and Dark Horse have had time to ask Newsrama to retract the story if it is inaccurate, so I recommend that we don't chase at the shadows of wishful thinking.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:54 am

Even though the announcement was not official, it makes a lot sense from a business standpoint on the part of DK. Valiant was a force to be reckoned with for a short while. I imagine they would rather not have that kind of competition again. I'm sure they know that taking Solar and Magnus out of the picture for Valiant is a great way to the throw a monkey wrench in the works for them.

Like I said earlier, I had a bad feeling that DK would try to take the characters when those hardback GK reprints started coming out.