New Solar and Magnus stories

sanman · Post by **sanman** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:01 pm

manjirin wrote: The DC Captain Marvel is still Captain Marvel inside the comic. But on the cover and advertising he is refered to as SHAZAM!/ Power of SHAZAM! . So, Man of the Atom and Robot Fighter on the cover and Solar and Magnus inside should be a feasible way to publish.

For Captain Marvel I believe DC owns the copyright on the character while Marvel owns the trade mark on the name. Unless you are talking about reprinted material it’s really not the same. Further, I don’t think that DH would be fine with just a name change and allowing VEI to use the characters.

Now if someone was to keep the basic universal essence of the characters while redefining the details you might have something—think Watchmen. I suppose this could work for "Man of the Atom" as Seleski chose to be Solar. He’d maybe evolve into something else—another energy being/god—different enough to keep DH happy but not too far removed. Magnus would probably be more problematic though because Valiant used much more Western publishing material in the series.

Geomancer · Post by **Geomancer** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:12 pm

sanman wrote:
manjirin wrote: The DC Captain Marvel is still Captain Marvel inside the comic. But on the cover and advertising he is refered to as SHAZAM!/ Power of SHAZAM! . So, Man of the Atom and Robot Fighter on the cover and Solar and Magnus inside should be a feasible way to publish.
For Captain Marvel I believe DC owns the copyright on the character while Marvel owns the trade mark on the name. Unless you are talking about reprinted material it’s really not the same. Further, I don’t think that DH would be fine with just a name change and allowing VEI to use the characters.

Now if someone was to keep the basic universal essence of the characters while redefining the details you might have something—think Watchmen. I suppose this could work for "Man of the Atom" as Seleski chose to be Solar. He’d maybe evolve into something else—another energy being/god—different enough to keep DH happy but not too far removed. Magnus would probably be more problematic though because Valiant used much more Western publishing material in the series.

I agree with the difficulty in pulling off a Magnus substitute.

As far as the 41st century goes - without Magnus, my interest in Rai and Psi-Lords is limited. It could still work - and I'm not trying to hurt Rai fans by saying this. I'm sure the diehard Rai fans can see him taking over Magnus' role.

sanman · Post by **sanman** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:18 pm

Geomancer wrote:As far as the 41st century goes - without Magnus, my interest in Rai and Psi-Lords is limited. It could still work - and I'm not trying to hurt Rai fans by saying this. I'm sure the diehard Rai fans can see him taking over Magnus' role.

No offence taken and I feel mostly the same. And I’m only interested in Tohru anyway—not really ready for yet another Rai.

Geomancer · Post by **Geomancer** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:23 pm

sanman wrote:
Geomancer wrote:As far as the 41st century goes - without Magnus, my interest in Rai and Psi-Lords is limited. It could still work - and I'm not trying to hurt Rai fans by saying this. I'm sure the diehard Rai fans can see him taking over Magnus' role.
No offence taken and I feel mostly the same. And I’m only interested in Tohru anyway—not really ready for yet another Rai.

Could you see Rai heading up VEI's 41st century? Would you rather see him folded into modern day VEI? Something else?

That is of course, if VEI plans on publishing ongoings.

Or would they license characters to Dark Horse?

sanman · Post by **sanman** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:51 pm

I’d hope that between Rai and Eternal Warrior there are still enough future Valiant (as in VEI) stories to tell.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:57 pm

xodacia81 wrote: I think there MIGHT be a way to keep Selski around but not as Solar. As an energy powered being, yes. But not as Solar. Either way, ths throws an interesting curve into everything.

We talked about this quite awhile back and Greg pointed out that it gets kind of muddy when dealing with these matters. Valiant clearly had differences in their version of Solar, but since they based everything on the GK version, Valiant may not have free and clear rights to Phil Seleski.

What a mess.....

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:00 pm

sanman wrote:I’d hope that between Rai and Eternal Warrior there are still enough future Valiant (as in VEI) stories to tell.

There are, but the big question is will it be enough to keep a large fan base interested for long?

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:01 pm

Daniel Jackson wrote:
xodacia81 wrote: I think there MIGHT be a way to keep Selski around but not as Solar. As an energy powered being, yes. But not as Solar. Either way, ths throws an interesting curve into everything.
We talked about this quite awhile back and Greg pointed out that it gets kind of muddy when dealing with these matters. Valiant clearly had differences in their version of Solar, but since they based everything on the GK version, Valiant may not have free and clear rights to Phil Seleski.

What a mess.....

Too true

VHMMV · Post by **VHMMV** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:31 pm

You snooze, you lose, VEI.

If they just assumed that Classic Media would license them the characters, they were dead wrong.

Honestly, the Solar and Magnus licenses are things which they should have locked down long ago. For all we know, they tried and failed. For all we know, they didn't try at all. It'd be nice to know, one way or the other.

greg · Post by **greg** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:38 pm

VHMMV wrote:You snooze, you lose, VEI.

If they just assumed that Classic Media would license them the characters, they were dead wrong.

Honestly, the Solar and Magnus licenses are things which they should have locked down long ago. For all we know, they tried and failed. For all we know, they didn't try at all. It'd be nice to know, one way or the other.

VEI definitely tried.

Let's face it, VEI isn't as established as Dark Horse.

When the Magnus license was granted to iBooks... it was a flop. With Louise Simonson... flop.
...and iBooks was more established than VEI.

Perhaps the Magnus managers said, "No more little guy licenses..." and chose Dark Horse.

The question will be... can Magnus stand alone? Can Dr. Solar work without Valiant?

There's a reason that these books ended in the 1980s...
There's a reason that these books were only popular again because of Valiant.

I think it will be clear in a year or two that Magnus and Solar won't work without Valiant.

What is Solar going to do? Be a god to the regular world?
Be a god to Dark Horse characters? Which ones?

Something about the whole concept seems strange... like dropping Superman into Hellboy.

Magnus will at least have his regular cast of characters... but what will they do?

I'm sure that a "pitch" was made by Dark Horse, and the licensors obviously bought it,
but I'm not sure that they realize what made those characters great in the 1990s wasn't
that they were "stand alone"... but they were part of something big.

Take them out, and you're asking the characters to carry the whole load separately...
I personally don't think they can do it.

Sadly, it looks like we'll have to wait.

Steve Topper · Post by **Steve Topper** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:50 pm

greg wrote: The question will be... can Magnus stand alone? Can Dr. Solar work without Valiant?

There's a reason that these books ended in the 1980s...
There's a reason that these books were only popular again because of Valiant.

I think it will be clear in a year or two that Magnus and Solar won't work without Valiant.

Sadly, it looks like we'll have to wait.

Greg, that's quite a bit of assuming that Solar and Magnus will fail without Valiant. If you're basing it on the books ending in the 1980's . . . several books that are selling well now, ended in the 1980's

Jonah Hex ... Justice League of America ... Red Sonja ... Transformers ... G.I. Joe (and these are just off the top of my head).

A decent relaunch of either title could succeed, especially in the current market where nostalgia is supporting titles like Project: Superpowers, the Twelve, etc. Even Conan and the other R.E. Howard properties are experiencing a rebirth without ties to the comics published previously.

And do you really think the popularity of the titles were strong under Valiant? Under Shooter -- yes! But his vision didn't last and the books faltered. Magnus was effectively jumpstarted twice during its 64-issue run -- once after the Malev War ended and we got the Torque storyline and then again under Giffen. Solar was jumpstarted at Birthquake after a series of boring stories that included Dr. Eclipse, Ravenous and Master Darque.

Dark Horse has shown it can produce very good comics. Personally, I like the characters and will give them an opportunity to succeed or fail on the merits of their stories and art, not because they are or aren't being published by VEI.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:47 pm

Perhaps Dark Horse could take some of the heroes from Comics Greatest World to interact with the Gold Key characters. Solar and Magnus helped launch Valiant, maybe they'll spearhead the launch of another comic universe.

betterthanezra · Post by **betterthanezra** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:49 pm

While this is depressing news on the outset I'm shocked we didn't hear about this at SDCC.

I think it all comes down to who works on these books. How they are set up and what they plan on doing with the characters once they begin.

I was sure VEI was working on getting the characters to publish them...bringing them into there long term plans...looks like it's NOT to be.

I'm sure they planned for this from the get go. They had to. There must have been two plans One with the characters included and one without.

-Brian

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:16 pm

StarBrand wrote:Perhaps Dark Horse could take some of the heroes from Comics Greatest World to interact with the Gold Key characters. Solar and Magnus helped launch Valiant, maybe they'll spearhead the launch of another comic universe.

That was something I was wondering about. The question is, how? The most obvious way to do it would be to have Solar have some connection to the Vortex and the Reaver Swarm. If they do relaunch CGW/DHH, and if they do use the GK characters, I will be very interested in seeing HOW it is done. I always felt that that was a universe which was never given an honest shot at buiding itself. But, I think they might have some sort of plan for either solo ongoing titles or a "GK" universe.

Geomancer · Post by **Geomancer** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:49 pm

xodacia81 wrote:
StarBrand wrote:Perhaps Dark Horse could take some of the heroes from Comics Greatest World to interact with the Gold Key characters. Solar and Magnus helped launch Valiant, maybe they'll spearhead the launch of another comic universe.
That was something I was wondering about. The question is, how? The most obvious way to do it would be to have Solar have some connection to the Vortex and the Reaver Swarm. If they do relaunch CGW/DHH, and if they do use the GK characters, I will be very interested in seeing HOW it is done. I always felt that that was a universe which was never given an honest shot at buiding itself. But, I think they might have some sort of plan for either solo ongoing titles or a "GK" universe.

Those are assets they could use. But just like Valiant built a universe from 3 Gold Key characters, Dark Horse could do the same - only this time substituting Doctor Spektor for Turok.

In any case its exciting to be talking about actual publication plans of ongoing comics with characters I got introduced to through Valiant.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 11:54 pm

THis could be tricky with 2 comic universes using the same stuff to some degree or another but there could be unity type crossovers between the 2 if plans were made well

nutflush76 · Post by **nutflush76** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:38 am

I think these books can work at Dark Horse.

As far as how the books fit into the Dark Horse "universe" well, there isn't one really.

Is there?

I bet that Dark Horse creates a Universe from the Gold Key characters i.e. Magnus, Solar, Doktor Spektor, Turok, etc..

I think that VEI could use the characters left and make them into a good, cohesive universe. I don't see much how the 41st century stories can work without Magnus, but I do see how they could use Phil Seleski/Solar in the present.

Seleski could very well work as "Man of the Atom" or something along those lines. He would probably have to be closer to the blue version in the acclaim comics, but at least the principle is the same.

Face it. The new universe is going to HAVE to be different from the old or else the stories would never change. They are really gonna have to be different now since a number of the major characters are going to be seemingly unavailable for the new universe.

If we ever get anything besides Hardcover reprints.

Geomancer · Post by **Geomancer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:48 am

I agree, nutflush.

It would seem that some form of retcon will now be required.

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:53 am

When VEI makes a major comic publishing announcement I've no doubt this board will blow up over it. Meantime, Dark Horse made an announcement today that's carrying the day here, and rightly so imo.

Geomancer · Post by **Geomancer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:56 am

Great post Jay Tomio!

I agree that the characters are in great hands with Dark Horse.

At the risk of sounding like a heretic again, could VEI license characters to Dark Horse as well?

They could still pursue movie deals, etc.

How about the prospects of a dark Horse/VEI partnership that could result in something closer to the superhero universe many of us hope to see?

There are still many great characters in VEI's stable. What looks like a setback - could turn out to be a creative boost. So VEI could easily go it alone - with the kind of creative talent they've lined up on their projects so far.

Geomancer · Post by **Geomancer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:57 am

StarBrand wrote:When VEI makes a major comic publishing announcement I've no doubt this board will blow up over it. Meantime, Dark Horse made an announcement today that's carrying the day here, and rightly so imo.

When looked at in a certain way - this is definitely a day for celebration. New comics for Solar and Magnus!

nutflush76 · Post by **nutflush76** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:00 am

I agree, Jay, that no announcement at comic-con doesn't mean that nothing is happening.

But I think that it does put the goal of a new line of books (or even a book) being published by the end of the year into some serious jeopardy. They would still have to bring on an EIC and a head writer. I can't think that too much planning (at least for the type of continuity Valiant is famous for) can be going on without these two important pieces of the puzzle in place.

If the EIC and head writer are currently under contract with other companies why can't they announce it?

Announcements come all the time about writers currently under contract with one company going to another company. jeph Loeb and Ed McGuinness jumping from DC to Marvel comes to mind.

Again, I do think that new books will come from VEI but I think they may be a lot farther off than a lot of us think.

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:41 am

Valiant Solar and Gold Key/Dark Horse Solar are the same in name only.

Presumably, you can have the Phil Seleski character, which is NOT the same as the Gold Key character, still in the Valiant Unverse. Just use a different name.

Magnus is a different story, since it is the same character as the Gold Key Magnus.

Chris

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:15 pm

Considering that Dark Horse has made no official statement at SDCC (the newsarama story could be a mistake) or on their website, I chalk this up to rumor and wait for the official word.

Geomancer · Post by **Geomancer** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:23 pm

cjv wrote:Valiant Solar and Gold Key/Dark Horse Solar are the same in name only.

Presumably, you can have the Phil Seleski character, which is NOT the same as the Gold Key character, still in the Valiant Unverse. Just use a different name.

Magnus is a different story, since it is the same character as the Gold Key Magnus.

Chris

I can see a powerful being trying to make a fresh attempt at a normal life and adopting a new costumed identity. No need to even mention he was Solar in a previous life.

I can see Rai coming to the 21st century and playing the role for the future that Eternal Warrior plays for the past. The 41st century can be revisited through an inter-company crossover.

Even Dark Horse doesn't look to be getting Turok.

I'm sure there are far more clever and well thought out takes on a non-Gold Key VEI. In any case, if VEI does get into ongoing comic book series - they have plenty of material for a VEI universe.