Life Without Solar

[ManofTheAtom]

If I remember correctly, in the story Darque was sucked into the wormhole Erica was trapped in, but I don't think that plot was ever explored

I just looked at the book and nothing to support this in the art. Gilad does shout at Bloodshot to "Go Find Darque" as if he escaped during the chaos.

Hmmm.. I'm gonna have to re-read it. I was pretty sure that was what happened.

[BloodOfHeroes]

Not all crazy people are schizos.

Actually, sexually abused children are much more prone to develop Dissociative Identity Disorder issues, commonly bandied about as "schizo," and/or "MPD" by many.

Also, far more women than men suffer from this.

BoH

[thePike]

Not all crazy people are schizos.

Actually, sexually abused children are much more prone to develop Dissociative Identity Disorder issues, commonly bandied about as "schizo," and/or "MPD" by many.

Also, far more women than men suffer from this.

BoH

He's right on this point

[ManofTheAtom]

Not all crazy people are schizos.

Actually, sexually abused children are much more prone to develop Dissociative Identity Disorder issues, commonly bandied about as "schizo," and/or "MPD" by many.

Also, far more women than men suffer from this.

BoH

True, but there was still no indication that Pierce suffered from that particular problem.

[thePike]

If I remember correctly, in the story Darque was sucked into the wormhole Erica was trapped in, but I don't think that plot was ever explored

I just looked at the book and nothing to support this in the art. Gilad does shout at Bloodshot to "Go Find Darque" as if he escaped during the chaos.

Hmmm.. I'm gonna have to re-read it. I was pretty sure that was what happened.

Save you some time. Here is the last page that Darques was seen on, the occuring events, then Gilad yelling at Bloodshot.

nothing has been edited out between these pages (just put in a nice line for continuity sake)

[thePike]

True, but there was still no indication that Pierce suffered from that particular problem.

Nope, but then again we are missing a couple thousand years of story between Pierce killing herself at her house until she leaves for Unity. Aside from gathering knowledge, followers, & technology - who knows what else went on.

[ManofTheAtom]

Save you some time. Here is the last page that Darques was seen on, the occuring events, then Gilad yelling at Bloodshot.

nothing has been edited out between these pages (just put in a nice line for continuity sake)

Hmmm... thanks

[cjv]

The split was made POSSIBLE by the fact that Phil was made of energy. As for Phil being a Schizo chicken, but "Erica would not split like that" - you mean to tell me that you think Pierce was more sane than Phil? If she was more crazy, than she certainly had the potential to split just like Phil did.

Not all crazy people are schizos.

No, but schizophrenia has nothing to do with multiple personalities. Schizophreniacs have symptoms of delusions, hallucinations, disorganized thinking. Multiple personality disorder is something entirely different.

AND you are assuming that simply because Phil, a person not at all trained in psychology, called his splitting a "schizo episode" or something like that, it was a professional diagnosis.

We also don't really know what psychological diagnosis that Pierce may have had.

Lastly, for all we know, energy people who have severe emotional issues and/or experience swings in thoughts and emtion may be prone to "splitting" like that. Maybe anytime one of them experience severe emotional distress or severe doubts about themselves they split off.

On the panel, the last image we see of her father looks like Darque. Anyone think that means anything, or is it simply artistic license?

If I remember correctly, in the story Darque was sucked into the wormhole Erica was trapped in, but I don't think that plot was ever explored

That would explain it then, at least partially.

[ManofTheAtom]

No, but schizophrenia has nothing to do with multiple personalities. Schizophreniacs have symptoms of delusions, hallucinations, disorganized thinking. Multiple personality disorder is something entirely different.

AND you are assuming that simply because Phil, a person not at all trained in psychology, called his splitting a "schizo episode" or something like that, it was a professional diagnosis.

We also don't really know what psychological diagnosis that Pierce may have had.

Lastly, for all we know, energy people who have severe emotional issues and/or experience swings in thoughts and emtion may be prone to "splitting" like that. Maybe anytime one of them experience severe emotional distress or severe doubts about themselves they split off.

Or it could have been an isolated incident limited to one individual.

If we go down that line of thought, we end up with a split of Erica and Phil for every nightmare they have.

And what about PMS? Does Erica split into a different person every 28 days?

That would explain it then, at least partially.

That theory was debunked,

[thePike]

Or it could have been an isolated incident limited to one individual.

If we go down that line of thought, we end up with a split of Erica and Phil for every nightmare they have.

If you go by what we are shown in the comic books from Solar #1 to Solar #13 about both Phil & Pierce, I'd say it's a pretty sure bet that Phil was a lot more mentally stable (give what ever DSM IV label you would prefer) than Pierce and he split on several occasions (question: do all of these instances have a common theme to them to suggest why he split?)

And what about PMS? Does Erica split into a different person every 28 days?

So what is 200 years divided by 28 days? What if all those split Ericas also had PMS so every 28 days each duplicate duplicates. Maybe thats why all the faces look the same in BWS art - they're all Erica Pierce!

[ManofTheAtom]

If you go by what we are shown in the comic books from Solar #1 to Solar #13 about both Phil & Pierce, I'd say it's a pretty sure bet that Phil was a lot more mentally stable (give what ever DSM IV label you would prefer) than Pierce and he split on several occasions (question: do all of these instances have a common theme to them to suggest why he split?)

Yes, they do.

He split three times.

The first was when he was angered with Dobson for being an incompetent fool.

The second was when Darque tried to force him to destroy the world. He split into a side that loved Gayle and a side that wanted to destroy (hence the Destroyer).

The third time he split was when he was experiencing grief over Gayle's death. The Explorer was the side of him that wasn't dragged down by sorrow, which left a side of him that was a sourpuss.

So what is 200 years divided by 28 days? What if all those split Ericas also had PMS so every 28 days each duplicate duplicates. Maybe thats why all the faces look the same in BWS art - they're all Erica Pierce!

[cjv]

No, but schizophrenia has nothing to do with multiple personalities. Schizophreniacs have symptoms of delusions, hallucinations, disorganized thinking. Multiple personality disorder is something entirely different.

AND you are assuming that simply because Phil, a person not at all trained in psychology, called his splitting a "schizo episode" or something like that, it was a professional diagnosis.

We also don't really know what psychological diagnosis that Pierce may have had.

Lastly, for all we know, energy people who have severe emotional issues and/or experience swings in thoughts and emtion may be prone to "splitting" like that. Maybe anytime one of them experience severe emotional distress or severe doubts about themselves they split off.

Or it could have been an isolated incident limited to one individual.

Absolutely. We have a sample size of one, so the only thing we know for sure is that Phil was able to do it (multiple times).

Since we are dealing with fictional stories, it would be VERY EASY for a writer to take that fact and use it with Erica as well.

If we go down that line of thought, we end up with a split of Erica and Phil for every nightmare they have.

If you wanted to take it to the extreme, you absolutely could.

I don't recall the situation when Phil split into DEstroyer, so I don't know Phil's emotional state then. But when he split the first time, it was under extreme guilt of having destroyed the planet/universe. The time for Deathmate was after the death of Gayle, right? SO both of those are pretty traumatic, emotional times - pretty far from just a "nightmare".

If Erica, while living with Albert, learns about the outcome of Unity and how she is trapped in the wormhole, and Albert dies (etc), that might be just as traumatic.

That would explain it then, at least partially.

That theory was debunked,

[/quote]

So I guess it was just artistic license then.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

I don't recall the situation when Phil split into DEstroyer, so I don't know Phil's emotional state then. But when he split the first time, it was under extreme guilt of having destroyed the planet/universe. The time for Deathmate was after the death of Gayle, right? SO both of those are pretty traumatic, emotional times - pretty far from just a "nightmare".

It wasn't guilt, it was desesperation with Dobson's incompetence.

If Erica, while living with Albert, learns about the outcome of Unity and how she is trapped in the wormhole, and Albert dies (etc), that might be just as traumatic.

That's assuming she gave a damn and that she could feel guilt.

Considering that she slept with Albert, it's a sure bet that Erica's morals were non existent.

[thePike]

That's assuming she gave a damn and that she could feel guilt.

Considering that she slept with Albert, it's a sure bet that Erica's morals were non existent.

These events point to a moral compass of nil I'll completely agree. However, in the 3 instances of splitting for Solar:

He split three times.

The first was when he was angered with Dobson for being an incompetent fool.

The second was when Darque tried to force him to destroy the world. He split into a side that loved Gayle and a side that wanted to destroy (hence the Destroyer).

The third time he split was when he was experiencing grief over Gayle's death. The Explorer was the side of him that wasn't dragged down by sorrow, which left a side of him that was a sourpuss.

These would be the 3 events; but whats the common denominator that caused them? The 1st reason seems like idiocy, the second will power? and the third grief? It would seem feasible that Erica could do the same...

[ManofTheAtom]

That's assuming she gave a damn and that she could feel guilt.

Considering that she slept with Albert, it's a sure bet that Erica's morals were non existent.

These events point to a moral compass of nil I'll completely agree. However, in the 3 instances of splitting for Solar:

He split three times.

The first was when he was angered with Dobson for being an incompetent fool.

The second was when Darque tried to force him to destroy the world. He split into a side that loved Gayle and a side that wanted to destroy (hence the Destroyer).

The third time he split was when he was experiencing grief over Gayle's death. The Explorer was the side of him that wasn't dragged down by sorrow, which left a side of him that was a sourpuss.

These would be the 3 events; but whats the common denominator that caused them. The 1st seems like idiocy, the second will power? and the third grief? It would seem feasible that Erica could do the same...

Anger, Wrath, Sorrow, meaning that emotion is the common denominator.

But the question remains, can Erica feel emotion?

We know she can hate, but could she love? Could she get sad? Could she get angry? Could she get scared?

In all her apperances in Unity, she seemed extremely stoic, the complete absense of emotion, EXCEPT during her final fight with Solar, in which she was the embodiment of hatred.

Dammit, I just proved cjv's theory right,

Like the Destroyer, Mothergod COULD have been the embodiment of Erica's hatred, which is why she lacked any other emotions.

[thePike]

Anger, Wrath, Sorrow, meaning that emotion is the common denominator.

But the question remains, can Erica feel emotion?

We know she can hate, but could she love? Could she get sad? Could she get angry? Could she get scared?

In all her apperances in Unity, she seemed extremely stoic, the complete absense of emotion, EXCEPT during her final fight with Solar, in which she was the embodiment of hatred.

She does seem that way later, but if you remember in Solar #12 she shows concern for little Albert when he gets beat up by the other kids. Also, the Erica that is at the house where she just vaporized her husband (just before she is vaporized by herself, the Mothergod version of Erica) is crying over that episode meaning that the original Erica did have some emotions.

Lack of a moral compass doesn't necessarily dictate not emotions; actually it usually dictates misplaced, misdirected or truly FUBARed emotions.

Dammit, I just proved cjv's theory right,

Like the Destroyer, Mothergod COULD have been the embodiment of Erica's hatred, which is why she lacked any other emotions.

[ManofTheAtom]

She does seem that way later, but if you remember in Solar #12 she shows concern for little Albert when he gets beat up by the other kids. Also, the Erica that is at the house where she just vaporized her husband (just before she is vaporized by herself, the Mothergod version of Erica) is crying over that episode meaning that the original Erica did have some emotions.

Lack of a moral compass doesn't necessarily dictate not emotions; actually it usually dictates misplaced, misdirected or truly FUBARed emotions.

Well, yeah, but that was a completely different Erica, not he one from A&O.

[BloodOfHeroes]

If you go by what we are shown in the comic books from Solar #1 to Solar #13 about both Phil & Pierce, I'd say it's a pretty sure bet that Phil was a lot more mentally stable (give what ever DSM IV label you would prefer) than Pierce and he split on several occasions (question: do all of these instances have a common theme to them to suggest why he split?)

Extreme emotional reactions. His version of "Hulking out," I guess.

BoH

[cjv]

If Erica, while living with Albert, learns about the outcome of Unity and how she is trapped in the wormhole, and Albert dies (etc), that might be just as traumatic.

That's assuming she gave a damn and that she could feel guilt.

Considering that she slept with Albert, it's a sure bet that Erica's morals were non existent.

I wouldn't say non-existant. Just warped and twisted to her own worldview.

She clearly thought she loved Albert, and cared for him. She felt emotionally hurt by his betrayal. She was concerned when he was being bullied. If she found out that she (indirectly) caused his death, she probably would react. Maybe not with guilt (chances are she would blame someone else) but potentially with sorrow and anger.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

It was not love.

The scene with Albert is a direct parallel to her scene with Phil in A&O.

She went to the two of them out of her own interests, not because she loved them or had any feelings for them, but because being with them made her feel better about herself, less alone.

[cjv]

Well, yeah, but that was a completely different Erica, not he one from A&O.

Huh?

I will grant that the Erica that A&O-Pierce killed hadn't gone through the same experiences that Pierce from A&O did (ie, trying to seduce Phil, getting powers, etc), but she certainly had the same background.

If nothing else, the point would be that in A&O-Pierce, that Erica (the one that was crying, the A&O-Pierce called weak) was suppressed in A&O-Pierce. Again, supporting the idea that there could be a personality split.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

Well, yeah, but that was a completely different Erica, not he one from A&O.

Huh?

I will grant that the Erica that A&O-Pierce killed hadn't gone through the same experiences that Pierce from A&O did (ie, trying to seduce Phil, getting powers, etc), but she certainly had the same background.

If nothing else, the point would be that in A&O-Pierce, that Erica (the one that was crying, the A&O-Pierce called weak) was suppressed in A&O-Pierce. Again, supporting the idea that there could be a personality split.

Chris

But the point I'm making is that the SD-Pierce still had emotions because she had not gone through the same experiences as AO-Pierce.

Look at how she behaved with her baby and her sadness after she killed Bert.

Those are emotions we never see AO-Pierce display.

Even the concern she displayed when the bullies tormented Albert could be chalked up to her looking out for her best interests.

She did not want people to know about her, and Albert could have given her away.

She did not keep Albert around out of love (he wasn't his real son, remember?), she kept him around so she would not be alone.

If AO-Pierce had been capable of loving another human being, then she would have mourned the dead of her real son, AO-Albert.

[BloodOfHeroes]

Well, yeah, but that was a completely different Erica, not he one from A&O.

Huh?

I will grant that the Erica that A&O-Pierce killed hadn't gone through the same experiences that Pierce from A&O did (ie, trying to seduce Phil, getting powers, etc), but she certainly had the same background.

If nothing else, the point would be that in A&O-Pierce, that Erica (the one that was crying, the A&O-Pierce called weak) was suppressed in A&O-Pierce. Again, supporting the idea that there could be a personality split.

Chris

Wouldn't it be easier to just revive the non A&O/non-Unity Pierce? I mean, can you really kill an energy being?

*ducks*

BoH

[cjv]

Well, yeah, but that was a completely different Erica, not he one from A&O.

Huh?

I will grant that the Erica that A&O-Pierce killed hadn't gone through the same experiences that Pierce from A&O did (ie, trying to seduce Phil, getting powers, etc), but she certainly had the same background.

If nothing else, the point would be that in A&O-Pierce, that Erica (the one that was crying, the A&O-Pierce called weak) was suppressed in A&O-Pierce. Again, supporting the idea that there could be a personality split.

Chris

Wouldn't it be easier to just revive the non A&O/non-Unity Pierce? I mean, can you really kill an energy being?

*ducks*

That Pierce (nonA&O Pierce, the one that didn't travel throught the blackhole) didn't have powers. That was before Phil's machine started to break down.

Chris

[ManofTheAtom]

Well, yeah, but that was a completely different Erica, not he one from A&O.

Huh?

I will grant that the Erica that A&O-Pierce killed hadn't gone through the same experiences that Pierce from A&O did (ie, trying to seduce Phil, getting powers, etc), but she certainly had the same background.

If nothing else, the point would be that in A&O-Pierce, that Erica (the one that was crying, the A&O-Pierce called weak) was suppressed in A&O-Pierce. Again, supporting the idea that there could be a personality split.

Chris

Wouldn't it be easier to just revive the non A&O/non-Unity Pierce? I mean, can you really kill an energy being?

*ducks*

That Pierce (nonA&O Pierce, the one that didn't travel throught the blackhole) didn't have powers. That was before Phil's machine started to break down.

Chris

Both Erica's gained powers during the meltdown.