Harbinger: The Beginning ***SPOILERS Thread

[Chiclo]

I think someone needs to get the field sock down to Mexico.

Quickly.

[yardstick]

Whatdidshepredict?Whatdidshepredict?Whatdidshepredict?

Her Key role is what she did in the past and it is a very important thing that she did.

I'll let Greg give all the real spoilers.

**** REMINDER - THESE ARE SPOILERS *** DON'T KEEP READING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW YET ****

**** REMINDER - THESE ARE SPOILERS *** DON'T KEEP READING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW YET ****

**** REMINDER - THESE ARE SPOILERS *** DON'T KEEP READING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW YET ****

Toyo's parents took him to many doctors to see if they could tell them what was wrong...
when that didn't work, they eventually took little Toyo to see Madame Rowena,
thinking that a fortune teller / psychic / seer / mystic might have answers.

That day she met little Toyo, Madame Rowena entered Toyo's mind and "popped" him,
the same way that Pete is able to "pop" other Harbingers into their full abilities.
Madame Rowena realized that Toyo was "like her, but far greater".

Of course, this begs the question: Who popped Madame Rowena?

[greg]

Of course, this begs the question: Who popped Madame Rowena?

If you're serious about asking...


**** REMINDER - THESE ARE SPOILERS *** DON'T KEEP READING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW YET ****

**** REMINDER - THESE ARE SPOILERS *** DON'T KEEP READING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW YET ****

At age 81 in this 1992 story, Madame Rowena considers herself the first (Harbinger).
She claims to have only had "occasional flashes" before she was "twenty-some".

[ManofTheAtom]

Of course, this begs the question: Who popped Madame Rowena?

I need to get my head out of the gutter...

that, or stop learning English slang.

[Chiclo]

Of course, this begs the question: Who popped Madame Rowena?

I need to get my head out of the gutter...

that, or stop learning English slang.

leon sometimes uses English slang, much to our chagrin.

I know he's tutting to himself as he reads this.

[yardstick]

Of course, this begs the question: Who popped Madame Rowena?

If you're serious about asking...


**** REMINDER - THESE ARE SPOILERS *** DON'T KEEP READING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW YET ****

**** REMINDER - THESE ARE SPOILERS *** DON'T KEEP READING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW YET ****

At age 81 in this 1992 story, Madame Rowena considers herself the first (Harbinger).
She claims to have only had "occasional flashes" before she was "twenty-some".

self-ignited...spontaneous combustion....hmmm... too young for hot flashes... or something...

[greg]

Of course, this begs the question: Who popped Madame Rowena?

If you're serious about asking...


**** REMINDER - THESE ARE SPOILERS *** DON'T KEEP READING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW YET ****

**** REMINDER - THESE ARE SPOILERS *** DON'T KEEP READING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW YET ****

At age 81 in this 1992 story, Madame Rowena considers herself the first (Harbinger).
She claims to have only had "occasional flashes" before she was "twenty-some".

self-ignited...spontaneous combustion....hmmm... too young for hot flashes... or something...

It gave me the impression that Harbinger ability has to mature on its own,
or be "triggered" into "instant maturity" much earlier via mind-pop by another Harbinger.

So, if a Harbinger grows up "isolated" they will only have occasional flashes in their youth,
but at the right age ("twenty-some"), the abilities could mature on their own.

Just a guess...

[yardstick]

It gave me the impression that Harbinger ability has to mature on its own,
or be "triggered" into "instant maturity" much earlier via mind-pop by another Harbinger.

If this is the case, well, I am sure there are plenty of other literary examples of negative effects resulting from someone being "triggered" prematurely (Wheel of Time series- channelers, possibly?)

Interesting concept. A person gets "triggered" too soon and they have control issues for example...

hmmm.. this reminds me of the top 10 sexually suggestive star wars lines. I'll post those in another thread for kicks and giggles...

[1st Among Equals]

.......Well so how does Toyo wife fit into the story or is she just mentioned?

[ManofTheAtom]

.......Well so how does Toyo wife fit into the story or is she just mentioned?

The story takes place in 92, 15 years ago.

He needs a wife in order to have a rebellious 14 year old son that joins the resistance in the new stories (fingers crossed).

Imagine Toyo's son as something like a Psi Harbinger.... or maybe a Chi Harbinger if he follows Eastern philosophies, heh.

[1st Among Equals]

then where was she the whole time?

[ManofTheAtom]

then where was she the whole time?

The stories that came after Unity took place on Earth Layton, where the character doesn't exist.

The stories that took place before and during Unity, as well as the one in the hc, take place on Earth Shooter.

That, my friend, is the simplest (yet more derivative) explanation any one of us will EVER get, heh.

[whovianone]

Greg, please find a drool smiley and add it to the emoticon list.

[greg]

Here's what to watch (the mailbox, the bookstore, the LCS) for...

[400yrs]

then where was she the whole time?

The last panel of the new story may give one ideas of where she is.

[ManofTheAtom]

Here's what to watch (the mailbox, the bookstore, the LCS) for...

Plastic bag

[ManofTheAtom]

then where was she the whole time?

The last panel of the new story may give one ideas of where she is.

ooooooooooooooooooooooooh

[Xero]

damn it, I have to wait another 2 hours before I can get my copy, the suspence is killing me

[muzzsucker]

damn it, I have to wait another 2 hours before I can get my copy, the suspence is killing me

I love the first panel of the new story. Its pure Valiant but updated for 2007. Great art. great coloring! Love seeing the harbinger logo again. Harada looks cool as all hell doing. Best of all, its grounded in reality. Superpowers in an ordinary world.

[whetteon]

I completely forgot how bad *SQUEE* Solar seems to be when he runs into Harada and the Harbinger kids. Sting reads his mind and suddenly *BOOM* he's fazed out of reality like he's somewhere else controlling his body with a remote control. It's small moments like that when you really grasp the his incredible powers. It's like the typical Harbinger is level 3, Harada and Sting are somewhere in the 10 range and Solar is around 100. Just blows them out of the water.

[acc205]

I completely forgot how bad *SQUEE* Solar seems to be when he runs into Harada and the Harbinger kids. Sting reads his mind and suddenly *BOOM* he's fazed out of reality like he's somewhere else controlling his body with a remote control. It's small moments like that when you really grasp the his incredible powers. It's like the typical Harbinger is level 3, Harada and Sting are somewhere in the 10 range and Solar is around 100. Just blows them out of the water.

So true, he literally can do anything his mind can come up with. controlling energy is the best power. Thats why i love solar 7 so much, when he fights the xo. they are toe to toe because phil isn't being smart. he cant think of a way to use his powers to stop the armor. when he finally does the xo is no contest.

[Second_Death]

Here's what to watch (the mailbox, the bookstore, the LCS) for...

Finally got my first copies today. I cheated and went right to the new material first. VEI doesn't just have a hit on its hands...............they have a Grand Slam HOME RUN!! Great job, guys.

[ManofTheAtom]

I want my

I want my

I want my hardcover

I want my

I want my

I want my hardcover

[Zaphod]

Finally got my 2 copies today and I had never read any of the early Harbinger stories outside of what was in the original TPB (as an aside that TPB is complete *SQUEE* without finishing the arc with Torques death.

***SPOILERS AHEAD***
***SPOILERS AHEAD***
***SPOILERS AHEAD***

A few thoughts:
- I like how Toyo's wife, Noriko (why does that name seem familiar?) doesn't correct or explain the blood on the knife to Madam Rowena. I wonder what their backstory is, they were obviously familiar with each other and Noriko kept her name in the dayplanner for the 7th.
- I have to wonder why Noriko cut herself on that particular day and why she kept that from Madam Rowena? Rowena assumed she used the knife to kill Harada but that is when Harada arrives to take Noriko home.
- It does sound as if Rowena "popped" Harada and she considers herself the first. We know chronologically the Ani-Padda boys are the first from the stories that have been printed. I wouldn't be surprised if Rowena was still "popped" in some later Retcon.
-The last page dialogue is what interests me the most.

Panel 1
(Harada arrives at Madam Rowena's, revealing that Noriko hadn't killed Harada as Rowena assumed from the bloody blade)
Harada - No. She didn't.
Noriko - Fiddlesticks.

Panel 2
(Harada and Noriko leaving, Rowena on the porch watching them leave. Noriko had brought along a teddy bear from Harada's youth as if Rowena could use it to see Harada's past actions. Very reminisciant of Unity 1 with Solar and the Wizard of Oz record that was Erica's as a young girl. Harada has quite a tight grip on the bear.)
Rowena - You should have done it. Get out of here, Toyo, you sick freak and take your chattel with you!

Panel 3
(similiar to the last panel, but this time from Rowena's POV)
Noriko - Next Year?
Rowena - If I'm still Compos Mentis.
Noriko - "Still"?

Panel 4
(Harada and Noriko flying away, hovering over a rooftop)
Harada - I Forgot what day it was till I saw your dayplanner. You cut yourself again. I wish you wouldn't do that. Blood everywhere.
Noriko - I need to feel the pain and see the blood. It makes what I am contemplating real to me.

Panel 5
(Still flying, closer up. Noriko particularily looking away from Harada)
Noriko - I...still believe in you. But you know I can't stand the deaths...the suffering. You could just wipe away my doubts. And Rowena's knowledge of them...
Harada - No. There must be a control. When you stop believing in me...end it. As for the old woman -- who would listen to a fortuneteller?

Panel 6
March 8
2:34AM
(Harada sits/stands in the dark next to a prone ((sleeping?)) Noriko clutching the bear. He is seemingly in a nightrobe)

- What exactly is Noriko contemplating "It makes what I am contemplating real to me"?
- What does Harada mean by "there must be a control"? As in control subject. As in control over what he is doing.

It is very heavily implied that Harada has influenced many of the large conflicts of the last century and was instrumental in the successes (Cuban Missle Crisis, Apartheid, Tiananmen Square, the fall of the Berling wall) as well as its failures (The Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, the Mideast mess). The story almost seeks to make Harada push the agenda that Harada is less a villian and more an idealist with loose morals and a "ends justify the means" person which is quite consistent to Shooters writing of Harada.

It also pointed out that pretty much immediately after murdering his parents, Harada went to Noriko whose family was a neighbour of the Harada's and asked her to come away with him to be his wife. Toyo was 6 and she was 11. Seems that Shooter used a little bit of Harada's origin story in "Knights on Broadway" Not exactly but I can see the similarities. Noriko points out that she "doesn't think" that Harada made her go with him but it certainly mirrors many of the same conflicts Pete had with Kris and others but never answers them definitively.

I love the story, it is far too short and leaves me wanting more. The recoloring of the stories is beautiful and it was money well spent IMO.

[user1463]

Here's what to watch (the mailbox, the bookstore, the LCS) for...

And under the X-mas tree, from what my sister tells me