HARBINGER: THE BEGINNING - Recolored Pages - SNEAK PREVIEW

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:10 am

I haven't seen enough of the art yet to come to any conclusions really. It seems to me though that most tpb's and hardcovers don't usually look as "sharp" as a single comic book does. So I wouldn't get too worked up if the coloring doesn't have the look everyone's expecting. We'll just have to wait and see what they do with the regular comics.

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:51 pm

Quite right DJ. Besides, its the story we should be concerned with, not the coloring.

manningfan · Post by **manningfan** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:08 pm

It will be awesome to finally know where Harada came from and hopefully have a look at why he is the way he is. I hope that Harbinger is a permanant return from Valiant.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:13 pm

manningfan wrote:It will be awesome to finally know where Harada came from and hopefully have a look at why he is the way he is. I hope that Harbinger is a permanant return from Valiant.

Yeah I want to see a preview page from the New story now

Ricomortis · Post by **Ricomortis** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:37 pm

Jesus people...

You guys will find ANYTHING to freaking argue or complain about.

Seriously though... its Valiant and ITS back! What the *SQUEE* else matters? We had absolutely zero say when the original came out and we loved it... I'm sure a fan who has spent 1 million bucks of his money to buy a dead universe and bring it back to its hayday will take EVERY precaution to make sure it happens. Will everyone agree on everything... hell no... but did you still love it?

Rico

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:22 pm

Ricomortis wrote:Jesus people...

You guys will find ANYTHING to freaking argue or complain about.

Seriously though... its Valiant and ITS back! What the *SQUEE* else matters? We had absolutely zero say when the original came out and we loved it... I'm sure a fan who has spent 1 million bucks of his money to buy a dead universe and bring it back to its hayday will take EVERY precaution to make sure it happens. Will everyone agree on everything... hell no... but did you still love it?

Rico

Good to see your off the "Stuff"....

Ricomortis · Post by **Ricomortis** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:02 pm

jedimarley wrote:
Ricomortis wrote:Jesus people...

You guys will find ANYTHING to freaking argue or complain about.

Seriously though... its Valiant and ITS back! What the *SQUEE* else matters? We had absolutely zero say when the original came out and we loved it... I'm sure a fan who has spent 1 million bucks of his money to buy a dead universe and bring it back to its hayday will take EVERY precaution to make sure it happens. Will everyone agree on everything... hell no... but did you still love it?

Rico
Good to see your off the "Stuff"....

Yea... ran out last night.

Rico

manningfan · Post by **manningfan** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:14 am

Who isn't happy?

VHMMV · Post by **VHMMV** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:55 am

I think part of the problem which some people may be having with the new colors isn't really about the colors at all, but at seeing their memories/experiences of the original Valiant U. change. For so long, it's been one way in their head, and now it's not. It's like when you move and then have occassion to see what the new tennants have done with your former home. You remember the living room as being green, and now it's blue. It's not the way you see it in your mind, and it can be an adjustment.

Me, I'm supporting it. Let's face it; reprinting the original watercolors was never a serious option. Even if they had all of the original color sheets, it was never going to happen. This wasn't done out of lack of options, it was done because technology has improved, and more people like computer coloring. And besides, the originals still exist. This isn't replacing them, it's in addition to them.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:41 am

VHMMV wrote:I think part of the problem which some people may be having with the new colors isn't really about the colors at all, but at seeing their memories/experiences of the original Valiant U. change. For so long, it's been one way in their head, and now it's not. It's like when you move and then have occassion to see what the new tennants have done with your former home. You remember the living room as being green, and now it's blue. It's not the way you see it in your mind, and it can be an adjustment.

Me, I'm supporting it. Let's face it; reprinting the original watercolors was never a serious option. Even if they had all of the original color sheets, it was never going to happen. This wasn't done out of lack of options, it was done because technology has improved, and more people like computer coloring. And besides, the originals still exist. This isn't replacing them, it's in addition to them.

I like this.

muzzsucker · Post by **muzzsucker** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:54 am

VHMMV wrote:I think part of the problem which some people may be having with the new colors isn't really about the colors at all, but at seeing their memories/experiences of the original Valiant U. change. For so long, it's been one way in their head, and now it's not. It's like when you move and then have occassion to see what the new tennants have done with your former home. You remember the living room as being green, and now it's blue. It's not the way you see it in your mind, and it can be an adjustment.

Me, I'm supporting it. Let's face it; reprinting the original watercolors was never a serious option. Even if they had all of the original color sheets, it was never going to happen. This wasn't done out of lack of options, it was done because technology has improved, and more people like computer coloring. And besides, the originals still exist. This isn't replacing them, it's in addition to them.

Nicely said. The new HC (new coloring or not) will never be able to eclipse the joy I had reading these books for the first time or outshine the memory of that first time. I think maybe if my first time was with this new hardcover it might have been an even better experience very much like the Star Wars special editions.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:26 am

muzzsucker wrote:much like the Star Wars special editions.

If you're compairing the harbinger HC to the Star Wars Special Edition. Then the new valiant will fail to the true OG Valiant fans.

Just like the Special editions did with the OG Star Wars fans.

And. OG Star Wars fans didn't care to much for the prequels that Lucas did. Did they?

I just don't get it. Just like Lucas, Valiant is Fcking with perfection. There was no reason to change the coloring.

Just like when Lucas changed the Cantina seen. Didn't change the story, but it ruined the look and feel to the movie.

But who are we kidding. Just like the Special Editions were made to attract new Star Wars fans. The younger, more Special effect oriented crowd.

The Harbinger HC isn't for us. It's to attract new readers. The new generation of comic book fans. They need this look to compete with Marvel and DC.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:31 am

jedimarley wrote:
muzzsucker wrote:much like the Star Wars special editions.
If you're compairing the harbinger HC to the Star Wars Special Edition. Then the new valiant will fail to the true OG Valiant fans.

Just like the Special editions did with the OG Star Wars fans.

And. OG Star Wars fans didn't care to much for the prequels that Lucas did. Did they?

I just don't get it. Just like Lucas, Valiant is Fcking with perfection. There was no reason to change the coloring.

Just like when Lucas changed the Cantina seen. Didn't change the story, but it ruined the look and feel to the movie.

But who are we kidding. Just like the Special Editions were made to attract new Star Wars fans. The younger, more Special effect oriented crowd.

The Harbinger HC isn't for us. It's to attract new readers. The new generation of comic book fans. They need this look to compete with Marvel and DC.

I have to disagree with the Star Wars analogy and generalisation. I saw the original films in the cinema (Empire I saw twice) and later had them on video. I love the Empire Strikes Back. I watched it dozens of times before the 90's re-release. I own the original trilogy Special Edition DVDs and don't have an issue with the way Empire was re-done. Equally I feel that Star Wars/A New Hope benefitted from the Han and Jabba scene and the Biggs footage being added back in, especially as I had become familiar with both from reading the novelisation of the first film a few times (although I agree about the cantina mistake). The point is I am an 'old school' Star Wars fan and I accept the changes, and even feel my viewing of Empire at least has been enhanced. I even like Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith (although neither comes close to Star Wars/A New Hope or the Empire Strikes Back).

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:45 am

leonmallett wrote:
jedimarley wrote:
muzzsucker wrote:much like the Star Wars special editions.
If you're compairing the harbinger HC to the Star Wars Special Edition. Then the new valiant will fail to the true OG Valiant fans.

Just like the Special editions did with the OG Star Wars fans.

And. OG Star Wars fans didn't care to much for the prequels that Lucas did. Did they?

I just don't get it. Just like Lucas, Valiant is Fcking with perfection. There was no reason to change the coloring.

Just like when Lucas changed the Cantina seen. Didn't change the story, but it ruined the look and feel to the movie.

But who are we kidding. Just like the Special Editions were made to attract new Star Wars fans. The younger, more Special effect oriented crowd.

The Harbinger HC isn't for us. It's to attract new readers. The new generation of comic book fans. They need this look to compete with Marvel and DC.
I have to disagree with the Star Wars analogy and generalisation. I saw the original films in the cinema (Empire I saw twice) and later had them on video. I love the Empire Strikes Back. I watched it dozens of times before the 90's re-release. I own the original trilogy Special Edition DVDs and don't have an issue with the way Empire was re-done. Equally I feel that Star Wars/A New Hope benefitted from the Han and Jabba scene and the Biggs footage being added back in, especially as I had become familiar with both from reading the novelisation of the first film a few times (although I agree about the cantina mistake). The point is I am an 'old school' Star Wars fan and I accept the changes, and even feel my viewing of Empire at least has been enhanced. I even like Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith (although neither comes close to Star Wars/A New Hope or the Empire Strikes Back).

You just made my argument for me.

Some 'Old School" Star Wars like the Special Editions. Some don't.

Same will/is happening with the Harbinger HC.

The thing is...Some Star Wars fans DO NOT acknowledge the existence of the Special Editions.

Will the same be said for the Harbinger HC????

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:57 am

jedimarley wrote:
leonmallett wrote:
jedimarley wrote:
muzzsucker wrote:much like the Star Wars special editions.
If you're compairing the harbinger HC to the Star Wars Special Edition. Then the new valiant will fail to the true OG Valiant fans.

Just like the Special editions did with the OG Star Wars fans.

And. OG Star Wars fans didn't care to much for the prequels that Lucas did. Did they?

I just don't get it. Just like Lucas, Valiant is Fcking with perfection. There was no reason to change the coloring.

Just like when Lucas changed the Cantina seen. Didn't change the story, but it ruined the look and feel to the movie.

But who are we kidding. Just like the Special Editions were made to attract new Star Wars fans. The younger, more Special effect oriented crowd.

The Harbinger HC isn't for us. It's to attract new readers. The new generation of comic book fans. They need this look to compete with Marvel and DC.
I have to disagree with the Star Wars analogy and generalisation. I saw the original films in the cinema (Empire I saw twice) and later had them on video. I love the Empire Strikes Back. I watched it dozens of times before the 90's re-release. I own the original trilogy Special Edition DVDs and don't have an issue with the way Empire was re-done. Equally I feel that Star Wars/A New Hope benefitted from the Han and Jabba scene and the Biggs footage being added back in, especially as I had become familiar with both from reading the novelisation of the first film a few times (although I agree about the cantina mistake). The point is I am an 'old school' Star Wars fan and I accept the changes, and even feel my viewing of Empire at least has been enhanced. I even like Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith (although neither comes close to Star Wars/A New Hope or the Empire Strikes Back).
You just made my argument for me.

Some 'Old School" Star Wars like the Special Editions. Some don't.

Same will/is happening with the Harbinger HC.

The thing is...Some Star Wars fans DO NOT acknowledge the existence of the Special Editions.

Will the same be said for the Harbinger HC????

Time will tell. I cannot lay claim to being an 'old school' VALIANT fan, so the reaction will be interesting. It just seemed you were arguing that all old school SW fans disliked the SE versions. Sorry if I misinterpreted that.

Re the colouring - was the old colouring reproducible still? I assume that VEI have the films of the original pages - is this the case?

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:30 am

jedimarley wrote:There was no reason to change the coloring....It's to attract new readers.

Another possibility is that it wasn't possible to reprint without recoloring.

/Magnus

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:35 am

magnusr wrote:
jedimarley wrote:There was no reason to change the coloring....It's to attract new readers.
Another possibility is that it wasn't possible to reprint without recoloring.

/Magnus

If not?? They know where to find JJ.

Fact is. That would be a GREAT selling point....."Newly re-colored by Janet Jackson"

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:39 am

leonmallett wrote: It just seemed you were arguing that all old school SW fans disliked the SE versions. Sorry if I misinterpreted that.

I like the SE versions. But now that I have the choice to either watch the original theatrical versions or the SE editions on DVD..I'll choose the originals.

Same will go for the Harbinger HC. If I'm not thrilled with the 'New Look'...
I'll re-read the originals.

TKWill · Post by **TKWill** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:14 am

jedimarley wrote:
leonmallett wrote: It just seemed you were arguing that all old school SW fans disliked the SE versions. Sorry if I misinterpreted that.
I like the SE versions. But now that I have the choice to either watch the original theatrical versions or the SE editions on DVD..I'll choose the originals.

Same will go for the Harbinger HC. If I'm not thrilled with the 'New Look'...
I'll re-read the originals.

I still have my OG remastered box-set on VHS that I refuse to part with. The SE disgusted me, but I have a begrudging acceptance of it now. I don't love it, but what are you gonna do. I don't feel the same way about the HC, it is what has to be done. The younger modern reader demands the newer style of coloring. Let it be. And as someone said before, as long as the stories are of the same quality I am in.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:11 pm

jedimarley wrote:
leonmallett wrote: It just seemed you were arguing that all old school SW fans disliked the SE versions. Sorry if I misinterpreted that.
I like the SE versions. But now that I have the choice to either watch the original theatrical versions or the SE editions on DVD..I'll choose the originals.

Same will go for the Harbinger HC. If I'm not thrilled with the 'New Look'...
I'll re-read the originals.

I like that idea, but were talking about recoloring 7entire issues plus the new story by Shooter. I imagine it would be hard for Janet to do that kind of volume and keep up with whatever she's currently doing. Not to mention the extra cost.

betterthanezra · Post by **betterthanezra** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:42 pm

jedimarley wrote:
magnusr wrote:
jedimarley wrote:There was no reason to change the coloring....It's to attract new readers.
Another possibility is that it wasn't possible to reprint without recoloring.

/Magnus
If not?? They know where to find JJ.

Fact is. That would be a GREAT selling point....."Newly re-colored by Janet Jackson"

A great selling point for who? Seriously WE love JJ colors thats for sure but outside of this group the average Comic fan has no idea who Janet is and wouldn't care...
not enough to sway someone buying the HC, again outside this group...they will either buy it or not.

-Brian

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:37 pm

so much controversy over recoloring.

IMO

There is no reason for ME as a VALIANT fan to purchase the Harbinger HC because I've read and own the whole story line.

In terms of marketing the book, you want to offer the old VALIANT readers reasons to purchase the HC, such as new digital coloring (the current standard) and a new Harada origin story.

As Greg stated the original coloring will always be there in the original printing.

If you don't like the new coloring don't buy it

(yeah right

).

I like the new coloring, which is reason enough for me to purchase the HC.

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:52 pm

ThrillKillWill wrote:
jedimarley wrote:
leonmallett wrote: It just seemed you were arguing that all old school SW fans disliked the SE versions. Sorry if I misinterpreted that.
I like the SE versions. But now that I have the choice to either watch the original theatrical versions or the SE editions on DVD..I'll choose the originals.

Same will go for the Harbinger HC. If I'm not thrilled with the 'New Look'...
I'll re-read the originals.
I still have my OG remastered box-set on VHS that I refuse to part with. The SE disgusted me, but I have a begrudging acceptance of it now. I don't love it, but what are you gonna do. I don't feel the same way about the HC, it is what has to be done. The younger modern reader demands the newer style of coloring. Let it be. And as someone said before, as long as the stories are of the same quality I am in.

I have that same set but I refuse to be an OG Lucas flunkie.

We all know that Londo Mollari is the original gangsta anyways.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:26 pm

betterthanezra wrote:A great selling point for who? Seriously WE love JJ colors thats for sure but outside of this group the average Comic fan has no idea who Janet is and wouldn't care...
not enough to sway someone buying the HC, again outside this group...they will either buy it or not.

Everyone of us here, on this site, has posted at least once that the coloring technique is one of the reasons that we fell in love with early Valiant.

Who's to say that that couldn't happen again?

You want Valiant to blend with what's already out there?

Or to stand out?

muzzsucker · Post by **muzzsucker** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:46 pm

When I mentioned the special editions I was talking about the enhancements. No one believes that Greedo should shoot first

I'm talking about the updated lightsaber effects and sounds, the death star explosion, the upgrade to 5.1 surround sound etc. etc. etc.

As far as we know this HC will be the very same story but with technical upgrades. For me thats exciting.

I remember a very similar debate about the digital coloring in the Sandman Absolute editions on the newsarama boards and the general consensus was that hand coloring had seen its day. I love sandman to bits but seeing the new Absolute edition made me fall in love again. The story has so much more depth now, layers I hadn't seen before because hand coloring only allows so much to be done were now visible. The story was deepened. My hope is that the same thing happens here.