Post Resurgence

[ManofTheAtom]

At the end of Resurgence, the VEI iterations of the VALIANT characters became lost in the multiverse.

Most are in the Underdeadside, some are still in the VEI reality, and Aram and Faith appear to be lost in the bridge between them.

What if Faith and Aram end up finding their way to the VH-1 and VH-2 realities?

Could there be a "Faith of Two Worlds" or "Faith of Three Worlds" comic down the line someday maybe?

While I don't care for multiverses, it would be curious to see the original and new Faiths meet.

The Arams would likely just go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for this all to blow over.

[syzhang28]

At the end of Resurgence, the VEI iterations of the VALIANT characters became lost in the multiverse.

Most are in the Underdeadside, some are still in the VEI reality, and Aram and Faith appear to be lost in the bridge between them.

What if Faith and Aram end up finding their way to the VH-1 and VH-2 realities?

Could there be a "Faith of Two Worlds" or "Faith of Three Worlds" comic down the line someday maybe?

While I don't care for multiverses, it would be curious to see the original and new Faiths meet.

The Arams would likely just go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for this all to blow over.

The story was so bad. Such cheap writing. We're living Acclaim all over again. Feels so Unity 2k

[ManofTheAtom]

One interesting aspect of a meeting between the three Faiths (VH-1, VH-2, and VH-3) would be that the first one would be the eldest of the group, having been born in the '70s (the second one would be only slightly younger, having been born in 1981), and also have had more experience as a member of the Harbinger resistance and, in 2025, a leader in Archer's peace movement.

Unlike VH-1 and VEI Faith the VH-2 version didn't seem to be all that into comics and pop culture, so that would add another layer to their interaction.

[Ryan]

At the end of Resurgence, the VEI iterations of the VALIANT characters became lost in the multiverse.

Most are in the Underdeadside, some are still in the VEI reality, and Aram and Faith appear to be lost in the bridge between them.

What if Faith and Aram end up finding their way to the VH-1 and VH-2 realities?

Could there be a "Faith of Two Worlds" or "Faith of Three Worlds" comic down the line someday maybe?

While I don't care for multiverses, it would be curious to see the original and new Faiths meet.

The Arams would likely just go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for this all to blow over.

You're the one who didn't want DC-Lite?

Faith seems a lot like Jubilee to me, great as a supporting character but very limited potential as a main character.

Post-Resurgence I think forgetting all about Resurgence and multiverse shenanigans would be the best idea. Just tell great stories with the best versions of the characters. No more events, no more over-hype. Go back to the basics.

[ManofTheAtom]

At the end of Resurgence, the VEI iterations of the VALIANT characters became lost in the multiverse.

Most are in the Underdeadside, some are still in the VEI reality, and Aram and Faith appear to be lost in the bridge between them.

What if Faith and Aram end up finding their way to the VH-1 and VH-2 realities?

Could there be a "Faith of Two Worlds" or "Faith of Three Worlds" comic down the line someday maybe?

While I don't care for multiverses, it would be curious to see the original and new Faiths meet.

The Arams would likely just go to the Winchester, have a nice cold pint, and wait for this all to blow over.

You're the one who didn't want DC-Lite?

Faith seems a lot like Jubilee to me, great as a supporting character but very limited potential as a main character.

Post-Resurgence I think forgetting all about Resurgence and multiverse shenanigans would be the best idea. Just tell great stories with the best versions of the characters. No more events, no more over-hype. Go back to the basics.

Unfortunately the multiverse is here to stay. All we can hope for is that someday they re-interpret it in a way that fits VALIANT canon, then undo it.

[syzhang28]

One interesting aspect of a meeting between the three Faiths (VH-1, VH-2, and VH-3) would be that the first one would be the eldest of the group, having been born in the '70s (the second one would be only slightly younger, having been born in 1981), and also have had more experience as a member of the Harbinger resistance and, in 2025, a leader in Archer's peace movement.

Unlike VH-1 and VEI Faith the VH-2 version didn't seem to be all that into comics and pop culture, so that would add another layer to their interaction.

This sounds like your describing the virtue of the thing you've been arguing for years would be the death rattle

[ManofTheAtom]

One interesting aspect of a meeting between the three Faiths (VH-1, VH-2, and VH-3) would be that the first one would be the eldest of the group, having been born in the '70s (the second one would be only slightly younger, having been born in 1981), and also have had more experience as a member of the Harbinger resistance and, in 2025, a leader in Archer's peace movement.

Unlike VH-1 and VEI Faith the VH-2 version didn't seem to be all that into comics and pop culture, so that would add another layer to their interaction.

This sounds like your describing the virtue of the thing you've been arguing for years would be the death rattle

The point here is that if such a meeting were to take place it should be done in a style that is consistent with VALIANT (meaning the original version) and not lame like DC's style.

[Ryan]

Unfortunately the multiverse is here to stay. All we can hope for is that someday they re-interpret it in a way that fits VALIANT canon, then undo it.

That's the thing about fiction being all made-up though, it can just as easily be un-made-up. Or just like 'Beyond' is ignoring all previous continuity, new comics can just be made ignoring Resurgence, DMG, etc etc.

I think Beyond is using the right characters though. X-O, BS, and SM should be the 3 flagships. They're just using the wrong versions. It should be the original Aric, Angelo Mortalli Bloodshot, and Creole Jack Boniface SM.

Just like Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man always eventually come back to the Kent, Wayne, and Parker versions, Valiant should build their universe around the original fan-beloved versions of their best characters. No one wants to read about Cyborg Superman in the long run. Bring back the OGs.

[ManofTheAtom]

Unfortunately the multiverse is here to stay. All we can hope for is that someday they re-interpret it in a way that fits VALIANT canon, then undo it.

That's the thing about fiction being all made-up though, it can just as easily be un-made-up. Or just like 'Beyond' is ignoring all previous continuity, new comics can just be made ignoring Resurgence, DMG, etc etc.

I think Beyond is using the right characters though. X-O, BS, and SM should be the 3 flagships. They're just using the wrong versions. It should be the original Aric, Angelo Mortalli Bloodshot, and Creole Jack Boniface SM.

Just like Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man always eventually come back to the Kent, Wayne, and Parker versions, Valiant should build their universe around the original fan-beloved versions of their best characters. No one wants to read about Cyborg Superman in the long run. Bring back the OGs.

As I've said before, any return to VH-1 should respect the passage of time as well as the events of Rai #0, so no Jack, no Archer, and Faith would be close to her 50s.

That could work for a The End-type event that closes that universe for good, but, in the long run now, the VEI version should be the ones they should focus on.

To be fair, Alien has compared the Beyond versions to Marvel's Ultimate and DC's Absolute lines. They've never said they're replacing the current VEI main versions.

[ManofTheAtom]

Narratively, the most viable version of a VH-1 revival would be one that begins in 1996 and continues on from there.

Sort of like how the Newsroom and The Morning Show were and are a few years behind the present. Or like Stranger Things, which is set 40 years ago.

[Ryan]

Unfortunately the multiverse is here to stay. All we can hope for is that someday they re-interpret it in a way that fits VALIANT canon, then undo it.

That's the thing about fiction being all made-up though, it can just as easily be un-made-up. Or just like 'Beyond' is ignoring all previous continuity, new comics can just be made ignoring Resurgence, DMG, etc etc.

I think Beyond is using the right characters though. X-O, BS, and SM should be the 3 flagships. They're just using the wrong versions. It should be the original Aric, Angelo Mortalli Bloodshot, and Creole Jack Boniface SM.

Just like Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man always eventually come back to the Kent, Wayne, and Parker versions, Valiant should build their universe around the original fan-beloved versions of their best characters. No one wants to read about Cyborg Superman in the long run. Bring back the OGs.

As I've said before, any return to VH-1 should respect the passage of time as well as the events of Rai #0, so no Jack, no Archer, and Faith would be close to her 50s.

That could work for a The End-type event that closes that universe for good, but, in the long run now, the VEI version should be the ones they should focus on.

To be fair, Alien has compared the Beyond versions to Marvel's Ultimate and DC's Absolute lines. They've never said they're replacing the current VEI main versions.

I didn't say bring back Vh1. Read more carefully

[ManofTheAtom]

Unfortunately the multiverse is here to stay. All we can hope for is that someday they re-interpret it in a way that fits VALIANT canon, then undo it.

That's the thing about fiction being all made-up though, it can just as easily be un-made-up. Or just like 'Beyond' is ignoring all previous continuity, new comics can just be made ignoring Resurgence, DMG, etc etc.

I think Beyond is using the right characters though. X-O, BS, and SM should be the 3 flagships. They're just using the wrong versions. It should be the original Aric, Angelo Mortalli Bloodshot, and Creole Jack Boniface SM.

Just like Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man always eventually come back to the Kent, Wayne, and Parker versions, Valiant should build their universe around the original fan-beloved versions of their best characters. No one wants to read about Cyborg Superman in the long run. Bring back the OGs.

As I've said before, any return to VH-1 should respect the passage of time as well as the events of Rai #0, so no Jack, no Archer, and Faith would be close to her 50s.

That could work for a The End-type event that closes that universe for good, but, in the long run now, the VEI version should be the ones they should focus on.

To be fair, Alien has compared the Beyond versions to Marvel's Ultimate and DC's Absolute lines. They've never said they're replacing the current VEI main versions.

I didn't say bring back Vh1. Read more carefully

How do you know the Beyond versions are not Aric, Angelo, and Jack? Also, Angelo = VH-1.

[ManofTheAtom]

Potentially, the most interesting thing in a hypothetical meeting between VH-1 Faith and VEI Faith would be the latter's relationship with VEI Archer, where, in contrast, VH-1 Archer married VH-1 Flamingo.

[syzhang28]

Potentially, the most interesting thing in a hypothetical meeting between VH-1 Faith and VEI Faith would be the latter's relationship with VEI Archer, where, in contrast, VH-1 Archer married VH-1 Flamingo.

I have zero interest in the old Valiant being brought into modern day. Bring back the days of very high quality event stories that were accessible to everyone and had top creators like Book of Death, Armor Hunters, The Valiant.

[ManofTheAtom]

Potentially, the most interesting thing in a hypothetical meeting between VH-1 Faith and VEI Faith would be the latter's relationship with VEI Archer, where, in contrast, VH-1 Archer married VH-1 Flamingo.

I have zero interest in the old Valiant being brought into modern day. Bring back the days of very high quality event stories that were accessible to everyone and had top creators like Book of Death, Armor Hunters, The Valiant.

There's room for all. It's all about context.

[leonmallett]

Potentially, the most interesting thing in a hypothetical meeting between VH-1 Faith and VEI Faith would be the latter's relationship with VEI Archer, where, in contrast, VH-1 Archer married VH-1 Flamingo.

I have zero interest in the old Valiant being brought into modern day. Bring back the days of very high quality event stories that were accessible to everyone and had top creators like Book of Death, Armor Hunters, The Valiant.

[leonmallett]

Unfortunately the multiverse is here to stay. All we can hope for is that someday they re-interpret it in a way that fits VALIANT canon, then undo it.

That's the thing about fiction being all made-up though, it can just as easily be un-made-up. Or just like 'Beyond' is ignoring all previous continuity, new comics can just be made ignoring Resurgence, DMG, etc etc.

I think Beyond is using the right characters though. X-O, BS, and SM should be the 3 flagships. They're just using the wrong versions. It should be the original Aric, Angelo Mortalli Bloodshot, and Creole Jack Boniface SM.

Just like Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man always eventually come back to the Kent, Wayne, and Parker versions, Valiant should build their universe around the original fan-beloved versions of their best characters. No one wants to read about Cyborg Superman in the long run. Bring back the OGs.

The further we get from the 90s, the less grounded the 'mafia hitman' angle is IMHO.

The Mortalli as a personality overlay can work but arguably not as the source since there are literally so many better options (soldiers, spies etc.).

[ManofTheAtom]

Unfortunately the multiverse is here to stay. All we can hope for is that someday they re-interpret it in a way that fits VALIANT canon, then undo it.

That's the thing about fiction being all made-up though, it can just as easily be un-made-up. Or just like 'Beyond' is ignoring all previous continuity, new comics can just be made ignoring Resurgence, DMG, etc etc.

I think Beyond is using the right characters though. X-O, BS, and SM should be the 3 flagships. They're just using the wrong versions. It should be the original Aric, Angelo Mortalli Bloodshot, and Creole Jack Boniface SM.

Just like Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man always eventually come back to the Kent, Wayne, and Parker versions, Valiant should build their universe around the original fan-beloved versions of their best characters. No one wants to read about Cyborg Superman in the long run. Bring back the OGs.

The further we get from the 90s, the less grounded the 'mafia hitman' angle is IMHO.

The Mortalli as a personality overlay can work but arguably not as the source since there are literally so many better options (soldiers, spies etc.).

I'd consider the alternative; start with an average man (such as a hitman) and then overlay the personalities of soldiers (like Garrison), spies, and the like into his mind, causing him to forget which one of them is the real one.

Hitmen can be considered disposable, whereas soldiers, spies (in particular), and the like are not.

For instance, a hitman would be considered less valuable than an Ethan Hunt and a James Bond, whose identities can be copied and overlaid over the mind of a hitman to give him their skills and abilities.

[Ryan]

I have zero interest in the old Valiant being brought into modern day. Bring back the days of very high quality event stories that were accessible to everyone and had top creators like Book of Death, Armor Hunters, The Valiant.

So you want more Matt Kindt? Hard pass. We know you don't like the 90s comics, but the facts are that it was the 90s comics that created the cult following and fanbase that was rabid for any new Valiant comics which lead to VEI's early success.

Yes, VEI made high quality re-makes of the 90s comics and they were good at marketing, but if they were so much better than the 90s versions then why isn't there a cult following for those books like there was for the 90s comics? Where is the rabid fanbase? Where is anyone even re-reading or discussing these comics?

[syzhang28]

I have zero interest in the old Valiant being brought into modern day. Bring back the days of very high quality event stories that were accessible to everyone and had top creators like Book of Death, Armor Hunters, The Valiant.

So you want more Matt Kindt? Hard pass. We know you don't like the 90s comics, but the facts are that it was the 90s comics that created the cult following and fanbase that was rabid for any new Valiant comics which lead to VEI's early success.

Yes, VEI made high quality re-makes of the 90s comics and they were good at marketing, but if they were so much better than the 90s versions then why isn't there a cult following for those books like there was for the 90s comics? Where is the rabid fanbase? Where is anyone even re-reading or discussing these comics?

Matt Kindt didn't write Book of Death or Armor Hunters. You should read the comics before you dismiss them or make insults to people who bring them up.

I love 90s comics. I'm here because of them. But VEI didn't just modernize them they did it better. Then they expanded way past what 90s did or was ever gonna do. Your argument that they aren't more popular is broken. 90s comics are not popular, by your definition that would mean they aren't good. Moreover, 90s comics were beyond unpopular 10-15 years after they came out. The 1991 Valiant comics in 2001-2006 were a ghost town. They didn't really come back into popularity until VEI showed everyone just how good Valiant and the characters can be. 2012 was VEI. we're 13 years later. We're in what 2003 was for 90s Valiant. VEI is way more popular today than Valiant was in 2003. Quality and popularity do not go hand in hand. And if you want to make that argument, then here it is - proof that VEI is good? They even made 90s Valiant popular again.

Can we stop making it a 90s or VEI argument. They are both amazing. In different ways. I can like both and not want MOTAs tired, first idea, amateur writer fantasies to come true. If VEI had continued with the right people still in charge I bet we would have had 90s Valiant brought back and it would have been great.

[syzhang28]

Potentially, the most interesting thing in a hypothetical meeting between VH-1 Faith and VEI Faith would be the latter's relationship with VEI Archer, where, in contrast, VH-1 Archer married VH-1 Flamingo.

I have zero interest in the old Valiant being brought into modern day. Bring back the days of very high quality event stories that were accessible to everyone and had top creators like Book of Death, Armor Hunters, The Valiant.

There's room for all. It's all about context.

Agreed but I don't want old versions of those characters trying to be culturally relevant. I already have culturally relevant versions. They're in VEI. The main reason to bring them to the modern day has already been done without the baggage of the oldness of 90s Valiant.

[Ryan]

The further we get from the 90s, the less grounded the 'mafia hitman' angle is IMHO.

The Mortalli as a personality overlay can work but arguably not as the source since there are literally so many better options (soldiers, spies etc.).

Sure, there were a lot of elements in Bloodshot that were very 90's to the point of being stupid. All I'm saying is that version of the character was popular. The version that is more like a mix between Punisher and Captain America, an 'enhanced' super soldier with speed, martial arts, and a healing factor.

As opposed to the VEI version that was like VH2 with all the different identities (almost as cliche as a the mobster angle at this point) and is completely indestructible and invulnerable.

[Ryan]

Matt Kindt didn't write Book of Death or Armor Hunters. You should read the comics before you dismiss them or make insults to people who bring them up.

I love 90s comics. I'm here because of them. But VEI didn't just modernize them they did it better. Then they expanded way past what 90s did or was ever gonna do. Your argument that they aren't more popular is broken. 90s comics are not popular, by your definition that would mean they aren't good. Moreover, 90s comics were beyond unpopular 10-15 years after they came out. The 1991 Valiant comics in 2001-2006 were a ghost town. They didn't really come back into popularity until VEI showed everyone just how good Valiant and the characters can be. 2012 was VEI. we're 13 years later. We're in what 2003 was for 90s Valiant. VEI is way more popular today than Valiant was in 2003. Quality and popularity do not go hand in hand. And if you want to make that argument, then here it is - proof that VEI is good? They even made 90s Valiant popular again.

Can we stop making it a 90s or VEI argument. They are both amazing. In different ways. I can like both and not want MOTAs tired, first idea, amateur writer fantasies to come true. If VEI had continued with the right people still in charge I bet we would have had 90s Valiant brought back and it would have been great.

Show me one insult I've made. Not liking a comic or a writer is an insult now?

You obviously weren't here in the 2000s, 90s Valiant was popular. It was a cult following with a small but rabid fanbase that would buy anything Valiant and were dying for new comics. You still never answer my simple question "if VEI were so much better than the 90s versions then why isn't there a cult following for those books like there was for the 90s comics? Where is the rabid fanbase? Where is anyone even re-reading or discussing these comics?"

[Ryan]

The 1991 Valiant comics in 2001-2006 were a ghost town. They didn't really come back into popularity until VEI showed everyone just how good Valiant and the characters can be. 2012 was VEI.

Yeah you obviously weren't here or in the fanbase. 2001-06 a Ghost town? It was a vibrant and growing fanbase (despite no new comics), just look at the archives here even though the first 2 years of the board (02-04) were lost in the crash. I was here, those were some of the most lively years on this board and in this fanbase. You have no idea what you're talking about. You're just making up 'facts' out of thin air to support your argument.

The initial success of VEI was due to there already being a rabid core of fans who would do anything for new Valiant books. Who were the ones pumping up the sales on variants and pre-orders? Who were the ones positive review bombing the early trades on Amazon to try and help promote them? The hardcore fans from this board who were fans of the 90s comics and had waited years for new comics, that's who.

VEI is way more popular today than Valiant was in 2003.

That's demonstrably false. A better description for the popularity of Valiant (VEI) today (for the last 7 years at least) is a Ghost town.

[Ryan]

I have zero interest in the old Valiant being brought into modern day. Bring back the days of very high quality event stories that were accessible to everyone and had top creators like Book of Death, Armor Hunters, The Valiant.

Back to the topic of Post-Resurgence.

You're saying bring back the 'high quality event' stories using the modern versions (VEI). Isn't that exactly what Resurgence was trying to do? An event series with the VEI versions, using one of the founding VEI writers and a good quality professional artist. And yet very few of the VEI fans supported it.

All I'm saying is that instead of continuing VEI (as Alien/DMG has been doing for years now) or doing yet another re-imagining reboot of the characters (as Beyond is going to do), I would prefer to finally give the flagship characters a shot at returning to their original, fan-beloved versions.

I'm not saying bring back all of VH1 or address all the minutiae of obscure continuity. Just try doing versions that are much closer to the originals and that show a real understanding and appreciation of those versions.

The VEI X-O is one of their characters that's been the closest to the VH1 version (maybe that's why he's always been their most popular character?). But still, there were many minor tweaks. Give us the version that's more of a barbarian with his original origin restored, the original Spider aliens as BWS designed them. No energy sword, bring back the original armor with the muscle striation lines. More ORB and Ken Clarkson, adventures on modern Earth, no more Space Barbarian. Swearing to Lugh and calling the armor 'good skin'.

Bloodshot like I already said, not invulnerable, not over-powered. A super soldier with enhanced fighting abilities who lost his memory and has adventures in a more grounded espionage world. More Bourne Identity and less Fantastic Four.

Shadowman as the Creole, wavy long hair normal guy who just fights weird criminals at night and half the time doesn't even know if he has powers or he's just going crazy.

To me these are the iconic versions of the flagship characters, just like the iconic version of Superman is Clark Kent, Batman is Bruce Wayne, etc. etc. Even though there've been tons of different versions of those characters over the years, they always come back around to being pretty close to the originals.

Get back to telling a grounded, connected, realistic, credible science fiction/super hero story with solid, consistent art across the line. That's what made most people Valiant fans in the first place. No more marketing over-hype, no flashy gimmicks, no variants, no predatory publishing practices. Show that you care about what made Valiant special and that you're on the same side as the fans. Fans aren't the enemy.