Yet another Alien rumor

[syzhang28]

Your Shang-Chi example is ironic since it seems that DMG was integral in the Mandarin not showing up in Iron Man 3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang-Chi ... evelopment

That's not what irony means. That's simply a connected point of note between an item that is related to this topic (DMG) and one that isn't (the Mandarin). Apologies for the semantics.

[syzhang28]

I have read these threads , and for the life of me I cannot figure out why anyone cares this much about rumors/info.

I mean honestly who cares? Why do you care so much to make it a big argument?

Why not just hope for the best(which i have been doing since dmg took over. )

Life will go on no matter who is right or wrong,

Who's arguing? Just a spirited debate. Hopefully Manoftheatom feels the same.

[Ryan]

There is no difference, actually. It's product, nothing more and nothing less.

DMG can, by its lonesome, decide to KS an Eternal Warrior comic and not involve VALIANT at all.

I'll peruse that page when I can because now I'm curious who from VALIANT, if anyone, is actually listed on it.

Like, who oversaw the project? Who edited it? Who hired the team? etc.

Was it anyone from VALIANT proper, or did DMG bring outsiders?

Everyone at Valiant was hired by DMG, right?

You're saying that Valiant and DMG should be treated as entirely separate entities. We can agree to disagree on that point.

Even if that's true, that Valiant Entertainment is now a separate entity from DMG, I think the new Valiant should still try to make amends for the recent past where DMG has cheated the fans. Even if they personally had nothing to do with it.

Of course they're separate. DMG does other things that don't involve VALIANT too.

In this instance, DMG chose to make a graphic novel with, it seems, no involvement from VALIANT.

Again, I disagree here.

I think comparing it to Marvel is apples to oranges, Marvel is a huge Entertainment brand that has 100 or 1000s of projects going on simultaneously. DMG is a tiny company that's been involved in a handful of movies, and owns a comic book company that has maybe 10 viable brands, all except X-O are dormant.

What you're proposing is that DMG and Valiant are totally separate. I find it hard to believe that DMG payed millions of dollars for Valiant and has been running it at a loss for 5 years, but now has no involvement even though nothing has changed and they're still the ones writing all the checks.

If you're hired by DMG you're hired to do the job that DMG tells you to do. If there's a separate Valiant entity, well they were also hired by DMG and are by extension DMG employees. Any editor or penciler hired by Valiant is also a DMG employee, correct?

[Ryan]

I have read these threads , and for the life of me I cannot figure out why anyone cares this much about rumors/info.

I mean honestly who cares? Why do you care so much to make it a big argument?

Why not just hope for the best(which i have been doing since dmg took over. )

Life will go on no matter who is right or wrong,

Actually nobody is debating about the rumors at all. We're just debating who's actually in charge at Valiant and who (if anybody) should be responsible for ripping off the fans, by paying for products that are promised but never delivered.

Obviously the people discussing and debating it care, if you don't you're free not to read.

[Ryan]

I have read these threads , and for the life of me I cannot figure out why anyone cares this much about rumors/info.

I mean honestly who cares? Why do you care so much to make it a big argument?

Why not just hope for the best(which i have been doing since dmg took over. )

Life will go on no matter who is right or wrong,

Who's arguing? Just a spirited debate. Hopefully Manoftheatom feels the same.

Totally, we don't agree on this point and are debating the issue. I've disagreed with a lot of people on this board but I enjoy debating and getting other people's viewpoints.

[ManofTheAtom]

There is no difference, actually. It's product, nothing more and nothing less.

DMG can, by its lonesome, decide to KS an Eternal Warrior comic and not involve VALIANT at all.

I'll peruse that page when I can because now I'm curious who from VALIANT, if anyone, is actually listed on it.

Like, who oversaw the project? Who edited it? Who hired the team? etc.

Was it anyone from VALIANT proper, or did DMG bring outsiders?

Everyone at Valiant was hired by DMG, right?

You're saying that Valiant and DMG should be treated as entirely separate entities. We can agree to disagree on that point.

Even if that's true, that Valiant Entertainment is now a separate entity from DMG, I think the new Valiant should still try to make amends for the recent past where DMG has cheated the fans. Even if they personally had nothing to do with it.

Of course they're separate. DMG does other things that don't involve VALIANT too.

In this instance, DMG chose to make a graphic novel with, it seems, no involvement from VALIANT.

Again, I disagree here.

I think comparing it to Marvel is apples to oranges, Marvel is a huge Entertainment brand that has 100 or 1000s of projects going on simultaneously. DMG is a tiny company that's been involved in a handful of movies, and owns a comic book company that has maybe 10 viable brands, all except X-O are dormant.

What you're proposing is that DMG and Valiant are totally separate. I find it hard to believe that DMG payed millions of dollars for Valiant and has been running it at a loss for 5 years, but now has no involvement even though nothing has changed and they're still the ones writing all the checks.

If you're hired by DMG you're hired to do the job that DMG tells you to do. If there's a separate Valiant entity, well they were also hired by DMG and are by extension DMG employees. Any editor or penciler hired by Valiant is also a DMG employee, correct?

Pencillers, writers, etc would be freelancers. And they'd be hired by VALIANT, which is the division that makes the comics, not DMG.

Except, it would seem to be, for this KS.

I asked to be shown which staffers from VEI worked on it, but no one has provided any names.

The sole fact we have to go on right now is that Mintz directly created the Kickstarter, not VALIANT Entertainment.

What has been proposed by the people whose comments I've seen on Facebook about this issue is, pure and simply, that DMG created this project without any direct involvement from VALIANT Entertainment.

They could be wrong. They could be right.

If they're wrong, then VEI is just as responsible. But if they're right, then you cannot blame anyone at VEI for DMG's faults.

[Ryan]

Pencillers, writers, etc would be freelancers. And they'd be hired by VALIANT, which is the division that makes the comics, not DMG.

Except, it would seem to be, for this KS.

I asked to be shown which staffers from VEI worked on it, but no one has provided any names.

The sole fact we have to go on right now is that Mintz directly created the Kickstarter, not VALIANT Entertainment.

What has been proposed by the people whose comments I've seen on Facebook about this issue is, pure and simply, that DMG created this project without any direct involvement from VALIANT Entertainment.

They could be wrong. They could be right.

If they're wrong, then VEI is just as responsible. But if they're right, then you cannot blame anyone at VEI for DMG's faults.

Ok, so let's assume your version is correct. Subsidiaries are completely independent of their parent companies.

In the latest comic book produced, X-O #3, Dan Mintz is the first name listed as Chairman of the company. But let's assume in this case that he has nothing to do with the comics (except the Kickstarter comic, which is not a Valiant production, but a DMG production).

Assuming all that, it should be understandable that some fans are frustrated and angry for being ripped off, and would at least like it to be acknowledged by the 'new' people.

It's a confusing logic when people paid for a Valiant Eternal Warrior graphic novel that was produced by the Chairman of Valiant, but now we're saying that wasn't really Valiant at all. Yeah he still owns Valiant and is the Chairman, but he's no longer involved (or was never involved) so we don't have to acknowledge or take responsibility for him ripping off the fans using Valiant's name?

[TheFerg714]

@ManofTheAtom

I think you're obfuscating man. I don't get why you feel the need to separate 'Valiant Entertainment' and 'DMG'. DMG is the reason we're all in this mess. They're the reason crappy leaders get put in charge, who end up hiring crappy talent.

Imo, they're one in the same. Sure, DMG has other ventures that it's focused on, but they're the ones that initiated the hostile buyout in the first place. You can't divorce Valiant's current problems from it's parent company.

[ManofTheAtom]

Pencillers, writers, etc would be freelancers. And they'd be hired by VALIANT, which is the division that makes the comics, not DMG.

Except, it would seem to be, for this KS.

I asked to be shown which staffers from VEI worked on it, but no one has provided any names.

The sole fact we have to go on right now is that Mintz directly created the Kickstarter, not VALIANT Entertainment.

What has been proposed by the people whose comments I've seen on Facebook about this issue is, pure and simply, that DMG created this project without any direct involvement from VALIANT Entertainment.

They could be wrong. They could be right.

If they're wrong, then VEI is just as responsible. But if they're right, then you cannot blame anyone at VEI for DMG's faults.

Ok, so let's assume your version is correct. Subsidiaries are completely independent of their parent companies.

In the latest comic book produced, X-O #3, Dan Mintz is the first name listed as Chairman of the company. But let's assume in this case that he has nothing to do with the comics (except the Kickstarter comic, which is not a Valiant production, but a DMG production).

Assuming all that, it should be understandable that some fans are frustrated and angry for being ripped off, and would at least like it to be acknowledged.

It's a confusing logic when people paid for a Valiant Eternal Warrior graphic novel that was produced by the Chairman of Valiant, but now we're saying that wasn't really Valiant at all. Yeah he still owns Valiant and is the Chairman, but he's no longer involved (or was never involved) so we don't have to acknowledge or take responsibility for him ripping off the fans using Valiant's name?

Not what I'm saying at all.

I'm just saying that DMG and VALIANT Entertainment are separate entities, and if DMG is the one responsible for fumbling the KS, then all that anger should be directed at them.

For instance, Mintz is the name that appears as the one that created the KS, correct? It is not VALIANT Entertainment.

Assume this went the legal route and people decided to file a suit to get their money back.

They'd have to sue the right person and/or entity, the one that is legally accountable.

Is that DMG or is that VEI?

If Mintz created the KS personally, does that not make DMG responsible? Sure, he used VALIANT's information, but if no one from the VALIANT division was involved, if it was all handled by DMG, then VEI cannot be held legally accountable.

[syzhang28]

Valiant is, of course, behind the kickstarter. Here are two quotes from the artist of the story:

Taracido added, “If we add to this the fact that VALIANT is behind this OGN"

“Thanks Valiant for trusting in my pencils!”

[ManofTheAtom]

@ManofTheAtom

I think you're obfuscating man. I don't get why you feel the need to separate 'Valiant Entertainment' and 'DMG'. DMG is the reason we're all in this mess. They're the reason crappy leaders get put in charge, who end up hiring crappy talent.

Imo, they're one in the same. Sure, DMG has other ventures that it's focused on, but they're the ones that initiated the hostile buyout in the first place. You can't divorce Valiant's current problems from it's parent company.

Not saying you should. I'm talking specifically about the KS.

If DMG did the KS all by themselves, then blaming and accusing VEI is counterproductive. It's directing one's anger at the wrong target.

I don't like Vincent Van Goat because I consider his existence to diminish what VALIANT should be. Should I direct that anger at some suit from the video game division of Acclaim Entertainment, or to the writer and artist that created him and the editor that approved it from the comic book division?

Same principle applies here.

IF, as those comments on Facebook suggests, DMG is solely responsible for the KS and VEI staffers had nothing to do with it, then VEI should not be the target of this anger and rage.

[Ryan]

Pencillers, writers, etc would be freelancers. And they'd be hired by VALIANT, which is the division that makes the comics, not DMG.

Except, it would seem to be, for this KS.

I asked to be shown which staffers from VEI worked on it, but no one has provided any names.

The sole fact we have to go on right now is that Mintz directly created the Kickstarter, not VALIANT Entertainment.

What has been proposed by the people whose comments I've seen on Facebook about this issue is, pure and simply, that DMG created this project without any direct involvement from VALIANT Entertainment.

They could be wrong. They could be right.

If they're wrong, then VEI is just as responsible. But if they're right, then you cannot blame anyone at VEI for DMG's faults.

Ok, so let's assume your version is correct. Subsidiaries are completely independent of their parent companies.

In the latest comic book produced, X-O #3, Dan Mintz is the first name listed as Chairman of the company. But let's assume in this case that he has nothing to do with the comics (except the Kickstarter comic, which is not a Valiant production, but a DMG production).

Assuming all that, it should be understandable that some fans are frustrated and angry for being ripped off, and would at least like it to be acknowledged.

It's a confusing logic when people paid for a Valiant Eternal Warrior graphic novel that was produced by the Chairman of Valiant, but now we're saying that wasn't really Valiant at all. Yeah he still owns Valiant and is the Chairman, but he's no longer involved (or was never involved) so we don't have to acknowledge or take responsibility for him ripping off the fans using Valiant's name?

Not what I'm saying at all.

I'm just saying that DMG and VALIANT Entertainment are separate entities, and if DMG is the one responsible for fumbling the KS, then all that anger should be directed at them.

For instance, Mintz is the name that appears as the one that created the KS, correct? It is not VALIANT Entertainment.

Assume this went the legal route and people decided to file a suit to get their money back.

They'd have to sue the right person and/or entity, the one that is legally accountable.

Is that DMG or is that VEI?

If Mintz created the KS personally, does that not make DMG responsible? Sure, he used VALIANT's information, but if no one from the VALIANT division was involved, if it was all handled by DMG, then VEI cannot be held legally accountable.

Mintz is listed as Chairman in the comics, owns Valiant, and hired everyone there. You're proposing that he went rogue and ripped off people using the Valiant name.

Even if that were the case, the 'new' Valiant should still acknowledge it and try to make amends because he used their name to dupe people.

[ManofTheAtom]

Valiant is, of course, behind the kickstarter. Here are two quotes from the artist of the story:

Taracido added, “If we add to this the fact that VALIANT is behind this OGN"

“Thanks Valiant for trusting in my pencils!”

Quote the rest of what he said,

Taracido added, “If we add to this the fact that VALIANT is behind this OGN, giving the team total freedom of creation, the project takes on a greater dimension. I am surrounded by a team passionate about giving an excellent result to all the fans and new readers of ETERNAL WARRIOR, this time with SCORCHED EARTH! Right now, I am really enjoying the line art for Eternal Warrior”.

What does 'total freedom of creation' mean?

No editorial oversight?

[syzhang28]

Cody White, while he was Valiant Entertainment Sales Communication Coordinator said the Valiant publishing team did "editorial work involved with actually executing the production of the story"

[syzhang28]

Cody White also "personally wrote the updates to announce that the digital would go out" so he was updating the kickstarter page as a Valiant employee

[ManofTheAtom]

Pencillers, writers, etc would be freelancers. And they'd be hired by VALIANT, which is the division that makes the comics, not DMG.

Except, it would seem to be, for this KS.

I asked to be shown which staffers from VEI worked on it, but no one has provided any names.

The sole fact we have to go on right now is that Mintz directly created the Kickstarter, not VALIANT Entertainment.

What has been proposed by the people whose comments I've seen on Facebook about this issue is, pure and simply, that DMG created this project without any direct involvement from VALIANT Entertainment.

They could be wrong. They could be right.

If they're wrong, then VEI is just as responsible. But if they're right, then you cannot blame anyone at VEI for DMG's faults.

Ok, so let's assume your version is correct. Subsidiaries are completely independent of their parent companies.

In the latest comic book produced, X-O #3, Dan Mintz is the first name listed as Chairman of the company. But let's assume in this case that he has nothing to do with the comics (except the Kickstarter comic, which is not a Valiant production, but a DMG production).

Assuming all that, it should be understandable that some fans are frustrated and angry for being ripped off, and would at least like it to be acknowledged.

It's a confusing logic when people paid for a Valiant Eternal Warrior graphic novel that was produced by the Chairman of Valiant, but now we're saying that wasn't really Valiant at all. Yeah he still owns Valiant and is the Chairman, but he's no longer involved (or was never involved) so we don't have to acknowledge or take responsibility for him ripping off the fans using Valiant's name?

Not what I'm saying at all.

I'm just saying that DMG and VALIANT Entertainment are separate entities, and if DMG is the one responsible for fumbling the KS, then all that anger should be directed at them.

For instance, Mintz is the name that appears as the one that created the KS, correct? It is not VALIANT Entertainment.

Assume this went the legal route and people decided to file a suit to get their money back.

They'd have to sue the right person and/or entity, the one that is legally accountable.

Is that DMG or is that VEI?

If Mintz created the KS personally, does that not make DMG responsible? Sure, he used VALIANT's information, but if no one from the VALIANT division was involved, if it was all handled by DMG, then VEI cannot be held legally accountable.

Mintz is listed as Chairman in the comics, owns Valiant, and hired everyone there. You're proposing that he went rogue and ripped off people using the Valiant name.

Even if that were the case, the 'new' Valiant should still acknowledge it and try to make amends because he used their name to dupe people.

Obviously, VEI has to deal with the damage that the KS fiasco is doing to their brand and standing with their audience.

That doesn't make them guilty of DMG screwing up the KS if they were not involved in it.

[syzhang28]

Cody White also says the Valiant team were involved in this: "We refused to put out the digital copy until the creative team had been paid."

Why would they draw the same line now for the fans who have had money stolen?

[ManofTheAtom]

Cody White also "personally wrote the updates to announce that the digital would go out" so he was updating the kickstarter page as a Valiant employee

For the digital, cool. But that was done in lieu of the print version, no? Which is what is the root of the problem.

See, I see VEI releasing a digital copy as an attempt at mitigating the *SQUEE* the KS left them with.

If VEI could release the physical copy, they probably would have by now.

[ManofTheAtom]

Cody White, while he was Valiant Entertainment Sales Communication Coordinator said the Valiant publishing team did "editorial work involved with actually executing the production of the story"

Ok.

[syzhang28]

Travis Escarfullery who was Valiant Director of Design and Production said "I'm not building an AR cover or explaining how it's done." once he was fired and they didn't pay him what they owed him which means he was involved with at least making that one piece of it.

Even with the little they have said we have so much evidence that Valiant was involved with the kickstarter. It was not something DMG were doing but something DMG were ordering Valiant to do.

[ManofTheAtom]

Cody White also says the Valiant team were involved in this: "We refused to put out the digital copy until the creative team had been paid."

Why would they draw the same line now for the fans who have had money stolen?

It still sounds as they're mitigating the problem, trying to put things right.

VEI probably has its own budget to pay for the XO and Ninjak minis, and depended on the money the KS raised to pay for the GN. I don't know. It makes sense, though.

[ManofTheAtom]

Travis Escarfullery who was Valiant Director of Design and Production said "I'm not building an AR cover or explaining how it's done." once he was fired and they didn't pay him what they owed him which means he was involved with at least making that one piece of it.

Even with the little they have said we have so much evidence that Valiant was involved with the kickstarter. It was not something DMG were doing but something DMG were ordering Valiant to do.

something DMG were ordering Valiant to do.

And there it is.

The project did not originate from VEI. It originated from DMG. VEI is just dealing with DMG mismanaging the fulfillment.

[syzhang28]

Valiant is, of course, behind the kickstarter. Here are two quotes from the artist of the story:

Taracido added, “If we add to this the fact that VALIANT is behind this OGN"

“Thanks Valiant for trusting in my pencils!”

Quote the rest of what he said,

Taracido added, “If we add to this the fact that VALIANT is behind this OGN, giving the team total freedom of creation, the project takes on a greater dimension. I am surrounded by a team passionate about giving an excellent result to all the fans and new readers of ETERNAL WARRIOR, this time with SCORCHED EARTH! Right now, I am really enjoying the line art for Eternal Warrior”.

What does 'total freedom of creation' mean?

No editorial oversight?

Per another quote I posted it literally means "editorial work involved with actually executing the production of the story"

[syzhang28]

Travis Escarfullery who was Valiant Director of Design and Production said "I'm not building an AR cover or explaining how it's done." once he was fired and they didn't pay him what they owed him which means he was involved with at least making that one piece of it.

Even with the little they have said we have so much evidence that Valiant was involved with the kickstarter. It was not something DMG were doing but something DMG were ordering Valiant to do.

something DMG were ordering Valiant to do.

And there it is.

The project did not originate from VEI. It originated from DMG. VEI is just dealing with DMG mismanaging the fulfillment.

Yeah man, that's how bosses work. If Hitler orders nazis to kill people the nazis are the bad guys too. famously so actually. even though they tried to say what you are "we're just following orders"

and now we've reached the nazi part of an internet debate.

[ManofTheAtom]

Travis Escarfullery who was Valiant Director of Design and Production said "I'm not building an AR cover or explaining how it's done." once he was fired and they didn't pay him what they owed him which means he was involved with at least making that one piece of it.

Even with the little they have said we have so much evidence that Valiant was involved with the kickstarter. It was not something DMG were doing but something DMG were ordering Valiant to do.

something DMG were ordering Valiant to do.

And there it is.

The project did not originate from VEI. It originated from DMG. VEI is just dealing with DMG mismanaging the fulfillment.

Yeah man, that's how bosses work. If Hitler orders nazis to kill people the nazis are the bad guys too. famously so actually. even though they tried to say what you are "we're just following orders"

and now we've reached the nazi part of an internet debate.

Yeah, VEI are not the Nazis and DMG is not Hitler. So, chill.

The point here would be that it is not a VEI project. It was a DMG project that, in your words, VEI were ordered to do.

If a digital copy of it exists, it means that VEI did their part. They created the graphic novel. Fulfillment is up to the entity or person that created the project, the one that initiated it.