Defiant vs VALIANT

[ManofTheAtom]

What made one different from the other?

I read Warriors of Plasm and a few of the others (I have pretty much all of it except for maybe one or two comics, don't recall which ones).

[greg]

First and foremost for me is that VALIANT was "the world outside your window" and DEFIANT (Plasm) was "what's a window?"

[magnusr]

What made one different from the other?

Whatever to call it - Defiant was more fantastic with worlds just beyond the perception of normal humans.

/Magnus

[ManofTheAtom]

First and foremost for me is that VALIANT was "the world outside your window" and DEFIANT (Plasm) was "what's a window?"

Is Dark Dominion where they crossed? heh

[ManofTheAtom]

What made one different from the other?

Whatever to call it - Defiant was more fantastic with worlds just beyond the perception of normal humans.

/Magnus

How grounded in science was it? Or was it just make believe with no grounding at all?

[Ryan]

Whatever to call it - Defiant was more fantastic with worlds just beyond the perception of normal humans.

Oh, now you did it. That means you're saying it was like Lord of the Rings, right?


DEFIANT was even more steeped in quantum theory than Valiant was. Especially theoretical quantum theory, and things like how the power of the mind is able to create realities.

Something happens that in that the realm of thoughts, dreams, and imagination starts to manifest in reality. That's the basic gist that I can remember off the top of my head.

[Ryan]

What made one different from the other?

Whatever to call it - Defiant was more fantastic with worlds just beyond the perception of normal humans.

/Magnus

How grounded in science was it? Or was it just make believe with no grounding at all?

Heavily influenced by quantum theory at the time. There used to be a video on the net and you can see the stacks of quantum theory and theoretical physics books they were reading for reference.

[ManofTheAtom]

What made one different from the other?

Whatever to call it - Defiant was more fantastic with worlds just beyond the perception of normal humans.

/Magnus

How grounded in science was it? Or was it just make believe with no grounding at all?

Heavily influenced by quantum theory at the time. There used to be a video on the net and you can see the stacks of quantum theory and theoretical physics books they were reading for reference.

Cool.

[Ryan]

Cool.

It's a Jim Shooter universe so of course it was heavily grounded in reality, using one major 'imaginative event' to explain all of the other imaginative events happening, like people getting powers, etc.

In New U it was the White Event. In Valiant it was Alpha & Omega. I don't remember if it was fully revealed in Defiant yet, but there was some reason or event that made it so the world of imagination and dreams was crossing over into reality. It had something to do with Plasm maybe? I haven't read most of those since '94.

[ManofTheAtom]

Cool.

It's a Jim Shooter universe so of course it was heavily grounded in reality, using one major 'imaginative event' to explain all of the other imaginative events happening, like people getting powers, etc.

In New U it was the White Event. In Valiant it was Alpha & Omega. I don't remember if it was fully revealed in Defiant yet, but there was some reason or event that made it so the world of imagination and dreams was crossing over into reality. It had something to do with Plasm maybe? I haven't read most of those since '94.

I imagine that's in either Defiant Genesis or Origin of the Defiant Universe. I don't recall which one I have and which one I'm missing.

[Chiclo]

Whatever to call it - Defiant was more fantastic with worlds just beyond the perception of normal humans.

Oh, now you did it. That means you're saying it was like Lord of the Rings, right?


DEFIANT was even more steeped in quantum theory than Valiant was. Especially theoretical quantum theory, and things like how the power of the mind is able to create realities.

Something happens that in that the realm of thoughts, dreams, and imagination starts to manifest in reality. That's the basic gist that I can remember off the top of my head.

Very Buddhist. This was a thing with… fringe-y science in the 90s and early 2000s. Academic science always seemed skeptical about thought creating reality and it seems like active proponents of that kind of thinking have shifted away from fringe science and toward pop spirituality. Lots of new thought.

[Ryan]

I imagine that's in either Defiant Genesis or Origin of the Defiant Universe. I don't recall which one I have and which one I'm missing.

Yeah probably one of those. War Dancer was heavily involved too, I think issue 2 is a flashback that might explain some of it.

[Ryan]

Very Buddhist. This was a thing with… fringe-y science in the 90s and early 2000s. Academic science always seemed skeptical about thought creating reality and it seems like active proponents of that kind of thinking have shifted away from fringe science and toward pop spirituality. Lots of new thought.

Definitely, lots of New Age stuff mixed with theoretical science of the time.

Sort of taking the Solar 'wish machine' stuff to the whole next level.

Instead of one person (Phil) getting the power to remake the world from his dreams and imagination, Defiant is more 'what if a bunch of people got the power to manifest their thoughts and dreams into reality, and the world of dreams and imagination is an actual place'. An ambitious comic book universe for sure.

[Cyberstrike]

The heroes were older and not your typical comic book heroes two of main characters in Warriors of Plasm Glory was in her 70s and a preacher was in his 60s and not into the whole sci-fi/fantasy/comic books and the main character of Dark Dominion was in his early-to-mid 50s when he first entered the Dark Dominion and got his powers. IIRC War Dancer was an ancient being. The other Warriors of Plasm had a wide range of ages. I like the idea of a 70-year-old grandmother becoming superhero. It felt more realistic to me than another group of teens 20 somethings, and 30 somethings becoming superheroes and it made Defiant stand out from the rest that only saw people over 40 as annoyances, sick old aunts, parental figures that couldn't do more than offer advice, mentors, or villains. The Good Guys and Charlamagne were young the Good Guys as a team was supposed to be more kids and teenagers and Charlamange starts out as a teen in the 70s but is in coma for almost 20 years (and Charlamagne felt like to m more like a superhero version of the cult classic 80s Disney sci-fi movie Flight of the Navigator).

[ManofTheAtom]

I imagine that's in either Defiant Genesis or Origin of the Defiant Universe. I don't recall which one I have and which one I'm missing.

Yeah probably one of those. War Dancer was heavily involved too, I think issue 2 is a flashback that might explain some of it.

Cool.

[ManofTheAtom]

The heroes were older and not your typical comic book heroes two of main characters in Warriors of Plasm Glory was in her 70s and a preacher was in his 60s and not into the whole sci-fi/fantasy/comic books and the main character of Dark Dominion was in his early-to-mid 50s when he first entered the Dark Dominion and got his powers. IIRC War Dancer was an ancient being. The other Warriors of Plasm had a wide range of ages. I like the idea of a 70-year-old grandmother becoming superhero. It felt more realistic to me than another group of teens 20 somethings, and 30 somethings becoming superheroes and it made Defiant stand out from the rest that only saw people over 40 as annoyances, sick old aunts, parental figures that couldn't do more than offer advice, mentors, or villains. The Good Guys and Charlamagne were young the Good Guys as a team was supposed to be more kids and teenagers and Charlamange starts out as a teen in the 70s but is in coma for almost 20 years (and Charlamagne felt like to m more like a superhero version of the cult classic 80s Disney sci-fi movie Flight of the Navigator).

interesting.

[Cyberstrike]

Defiant was a bit of an odd company, and as happy I am about the Schism Kickstarter project. I would also love to see a Defiant Omnibus collecting all the series Warriors of Plasm, Dark Dominion, The Good Guys, Charlamagne, War Dancer, Dogs of War, and the rest of them along with the associated specials, and various #0s and #1/2s and the other Schism tie ins IIRC only Warriors of Plasm and I think Dogs of War were the only ones that had tie-in or crossover issues. I would like to see the rest of Defiant get restored, remastered, and reprinted in collected editions. I also hope that if the Schism Kickstarter works out and gets published that there is general release to people who can't afford to join or find out too late about it and can get it.

[ManofTheAtom]

Defiant was a bit of an odd company, and as happy I am about the Schism Kickstarter project. I would also love to see a Defiant Omnibus collecting all the series Warriors of Plasm, Dark Dominion, The Good Guys, Charlamagne, War Dancer, Dogs of War, and the rest of them along with the associated specials, and various #0s and #1/2s and the other Schism tie ins IIRC only Warriors of Plasm and I think Dogs of War were the only ones that had tie-in or crossover issues. I would like to see the rest of Defiant get restored, remastered, and reprinted in collected editions. I also hope that if the Schism Kickstarter works out and gets published that there is general release to people who can't afford to join or find out too late about it and can get it.

For sure.

[Ryan]

Defiant was a bit of an odd company, and as happy I am about the Schism Kickstarter project. I would also love to see a Defiant Omnibus collecting all the series Warriors of Plasm, Dark Dominion, The Good Guys, Charlamagne, War Dancer, Dogs of War, and the rest of them along with the associated specials, and various #0s and #1/2s and the other Schism tie ins IIRC only Warriors of Plasm and I think Dogs of War were the only ones that had tie-in or crossover issues. I would like to see the rest of Defiant get restored, remastered, and reprinted in collected editions. I also hope that if the Schism Kickstarter works out and gets published that there is general release to people who can't afford to join or find out too late about it and can get it.

That would be awesome. Omnibuses and Compendiums.

[Cyberstrike]

Or even simple trade paper backs since to get new people into Defiant and older fans who don't remember much and don't want to go digging through their collections trying to find all their old issues. I would love to see Warriors of Plasm #0, Dark Dominion #0, Glory #0, and The Good Guys #1/2 get reprinted as proper single issues.

[Ryan]

Or even simple trade paper backs since to get new people into Defiant and older fans who don't remember much and don't want to go digging through their collections trying to find all their old issues. I would love to see Warriors of Plasm #0, Dark Dominion #0, Glory #0, and The Good Guys #1/2 get reprinted as proper single issues.

For sure. And in the trades include all the extra stuff like the character cards and Splatterball card set, etc. I just got the Dark Dominion #0 card set last year and its crazy how much work they put into to developing all the side characters, most of whom only ever appeared in the card set.

[Ryan]

Found this quote from Shooter's blog-

Jim Shooter:
As I said, some of my favorite worlds are comic-booky. I wrote for DC's absurd, all-over-the-place "universe" for a total of nine or ten years. I ran Marvel's anything-is-possible world for 9+ years. Broadway was science fantasy based. DEFIANT was powers-of-the-id based, but we went far into fantasy. The work I did that hasn't seen the light of day yet for TGS, Inc. and Phobos Entertainment was, respectively, fantasy and science fiction/science fantasy. Give me a Blue Area on the moon and I can run with it. Throw in some repulsor rays and I'm clam-happy.

January 19, 2012

[Cyberstrike]

Or even simple trade paper backs since to get new people into Defiant and older fans who don't remember much and don't want to go digging through their collections trying to find all their old issues. I would love to see Warriors of Plasm #0, Dark Dominion #0, Glory #0, and The Good Guys #1/2 get reprinted as proper single issues.

For sure. And in the trades include all the extra stuff like the character cards and Splatterball card set, etc. I just got the Dark Dominion #0 card set last year and its crazy how much work they put into to developing all the side characters, most of whom only ever appeared in the card set.

I would love to see art errors in Dark Dominion #0 fixed, some cards weren't cut right and items and characters got doubled or cut in half when you put the card set together, it looked off. I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't a major reason that Steve Ditko didn't work with Defiant again. I would love to see Glory #0 and The Good Guys #1.5 just collected and reprinted as normal comics.