Is it enough? A little bit of devil's advocate

Sect · Post by **Sect** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:54 am

I only post this b/c i'm concerned and by nature, cynical

Let's be honest here, I'm sure John loves Valiant, and thus has taken it upon himself to purchase the rights to Valiant characters. However, I'm also sure John is a business man and that he needs to feed the family and make make a living out of this.

Therefore my quesiton is it enough? Are there enough of us, and us I mean valiant fans to support the new Valiant comics? Is it possible? What do you guys think?

BodaZoffa · Post by **BodaZoffa** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:59 am

If he can generate the hype & start out with quality books, I think it will spread. A little promo by Wizard could'nt hurt either to get the younger generations attention.

Boda

betterthanezra · Post by **betterthanezra** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:05 am

If done the way John said he wanted it done.....then YES

With Shooter and Layton handeling the X-O Mini I think that the press alone would be very big.

Of course thats my Opinion.

-Brian

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:58 am

All I know is the dude came in here like a man, said what he was going to do and then did it. These characters are just property, after all, and he didn't have to tell us jack. But he did, and that says a lot.

I hope he makes some money off these characters. I'll help him do that, in my own small way.

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:06 am

I really think it can happen. But I think the biggest obstacle is going to be store owners taking a chance. It will be hard for them to believe this isn’t going to fail like VH2 & VH3. In order to do that there needs to be a big push all at once so they KNOW you are serious. Here is what I would do if it were possible.

I would get the following people on these books and start with three. I would have each one start with a 6 or 7 issue story arc. This is really needed to allow time for good press to get into books like Wizard. People need to hear about a great story from more than one person to give it a try.

X-O – Bob Layton & Kevin VanHook

Shadowman – Bob Hall

Harbinger – Jim Shooter & David Lapham

*I would leave the story to the writers

If the new issues continued from some point in Valiant history, like the end of Shadowman 43, I would reprint the story arc up to that point so readers can see what happened before. It would be very cool to have the first page of the new Shadowman be a splash page just like the cover of Shadowman 43.

I would also reprint in Hard Cover format X-O 1-8, Shadowman 1-8, and Harbinger 1-8. Followed by others in 6 months.

It would be a huge risk but I think it needed to gain readers again.

Sect · Post by **Sect** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:25 am

don't get me wrong, I do want him to be successful b/c if he is successful then we as readers and Valiant enthusiasts win b/c we will continuely have stories and comics to read.

so i'm hoping everything works out but a part of me wonders if it is possible. I don't know the coimic industry today but i'm assuming that it is still against the big two. In addition, like x-o said ppl might be skeptical about it and this can hurt

just wondering what you guys thought

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:02 am

Sect wrote:I only post this b/c i'm concerned and by nature, cynical

Let's be honest here, I'm sure John loves Valiant, and thus has taken it upon himself to purchase the rights to Valiant characters. However, I'm also sure John is a business man and that he needs to feed the family and make make a living out of this.

Therefore my quesiton is it enough? Are there enough of us, and us I mean valiant fans to support the new Valiant comics? Is it possible? What do you guys think?

Based on some rough numbers he gave us, I think it is very doable - especially putting out only 2 books or so.

davidb · Post by **davidb** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:35 am

I've got to agree with 400yrs. The biggest mistake a new comic company can make is starting out too big - they see what DC, Marvel, and Image are putting out, and figure they can do the same. Remember, Valiant started out with Magnus, then added books one at a time. Even at the height of the speculator's boom they were still putting out under 20 titles a month (I don't believe they had more than that). If Mr. Taddeo keeps things small to start, he'll definitely have more room (and a better chance) to grow things.

David B.

Todd Luck · Post by **Todd Luck** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:02 am

To repy to Sect initial question: Are there enough existing Valiant fans to support a comic? I doubt it, but the small "built-in" audience such a project would have doesn't hurt.

You're rarely paying for the currently existing fan base when you buy an old (dead) property. You're paying money because you know at one point these properties were successful. You buy them because resurrecting them will get you more attention than creating a new character and because you know the characters have something that resonates with comic fans. It's nice when you don't have to guess if a properly marketed X-O Manowar would appeal to the typical comic reader because someone before you already did it successfully.

In other words, you buy it because you know if the characters attracted readers once and they can do so again.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:53 am

Sect wrote:I only post this b/c i'm concerned and by nature, cynical

Let's be honest here, I'm sure John loves Valiant, and thus has taken it upon himself to purchase the rights to Valiant characters. However, I'm also sure John is a business man and that he needs to feed the family and make make a living out of this.

Therefore my quesiton is it enough? Are there enough of us, and us I mean valiant fans to support the new Valiant comics? Is it possible? What do you guys think?

If only we support it...NO WAY....it would be a total diaster...they need everyone to buy into it....they need shop owners to order it and people buying marvel to pick it up...they need a lot of people to buy these books...valiant fans are not going to be enough...

davidb · Post by **davidb** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:06 am

Something else to remember is what DC proved with Hawkman. For years after the mid-90's Hawkworld series flopped, they completely ignored the character. They even turned Grant Morrison down when he tried to bring Hawkman into the JLA.

What they were doing was "letting the stink come off the name." Hawkman had been so abused over the years that very few people would even consider picking up the book. They let it lay for five years (give or take) until they finally let Geoff Johns bring him back and fix him.

This proves two things: 1) If a book's well-written, it's got a much better chance of selling; and 2) Valiant's been gone for five years, and people miss it. These characters have a much better chance of making it now than if Acclaim had tried again in 2001 or so.

Just my $0.02...

David B.

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:26 am

phew, the stink of comic failure.

elyhekrue · Post by **elyhekrue** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:45 am

There are simple and easy things we can do to set the ground work for the forthcoming VH-T books. These simple guerilla-marketing tactics could help seed the comic community with enthusiasm and interest, and let others know that there are people chomping at the bit to see these books come out.

Some ideas...

1) Start talking to your local comic stores. Let them know what has happened and that you want to know any information they find out. The reality is that you will likely know more, but it makes them feel like they know more (stroking their ego) and gets them involved.

2) Dealers at conventions. Start talking with dealers at various conventions you attend when you ask to see their Valiant back issues. Let them know you are excited and can't wait to get the new books of your favorite characters. When dealers see fan enthusiasm it sticks with them, they want to make a buck off you and if they know there is interest in something then they are interested.

3) Chat with trade magazines. Wizard has a monthly letter column called "Magic Words." It's easy to write to them and ask questions (you can email: magicwords@wizarduniverse.com). We should start a campaign to get letters in their publication about: a) their recent increase in attention given to Valiant back issues, b) the recent aquisition by John Taddeo, and c) any other Valiant related questions/comments (and if you include a fart reference it might help...). Again, appeal to their egos and it will get you far.

4) Comic industry messsageboards. We are all very net savy on this board, and we all know of other comic industry messageboards that are out there. We could get on those boards and start talking about Valiant and all the things going on right now. This would bring imediate exposure to our favorite hobby, and let them know that good things are coming down the pipe.

These are all easy things to do. We already go to comic stores and convetions, and I'm sure talk to the retailers already about our Valiant fixation. It's a simple matter to push it a little further. Likewise, we already visit other messageboards. The only thing we might not already do is email Wizard, but I'm going to draft up an email today and send it.

A little nudge can go a long way.

Kyle

<man, I bet you couldn't tell I was in marketing for seven years...>

Sect · Post by **Sect** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:17 am

very cool input guys makes me feel more reassured...if that is even the word to describe it

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:39 am

I dont think that a few fanboys talking about valiants is going to change much...it will really come down to owners taking a risk and vht getting the right marketing...this is going to be a hard sale...many people hate valiant..hard to overcome that...probably best to not really mention the old stuff and let this stand on its own. If people like the new stuff they will find the old stuff...

I wonder what the status of this website is going to be....think that greg will be able to keep valiantcomics.com?

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:43 am

I think that the recent exposure in Wizard with the return of Valiant to the price guide is a great start. LCS's have been taking notice of this recently, and most all of the shops I have been in tell you the same thing "Valiant is red hot again".

k_c_collectibles · Post by **k_c_collectibles** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:26 pm

x-omatic wrote:I would also reprint in Hard Cover format X-O 1-8, Shadowman 1-8, and Harbinger 1-8. Followed by others in 6 months..

I think that is an AWESOME idea! Sign me up for 3 copies of each!!! I would do my best to help support John in his efforts to bring back Valiant even if it meant buying multiple copies of all his books.

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:13 pm

k_c_collectibles wrote:
x-omatic wrote:I would also reprint in Hard Cover format X-O 1-8, Shadowman 1-8, and Harbinger 1-8. Followed by others in 6 months..
I think that is an AWESOME idea! Sign me up for 3 copies of each!!! I would do my best to help support John in his efforts to bring back Valiant even if it meant buying multiple copies of all his books.

I really think having new stuff and the reprints come out at the same time would be a good idea. They would generate interest for each other.

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:30 pm

elyhekrue wrote:There are simple and easy things we can do to set the ground work for the forthcoming VH-T books. These simple guerilla-marketing tactics could help seed the comic community with enthusiasm and interest, and let others know that there are people chomping at the bit to see these books come out.

Some ideas...

1) Start talking to your local comic stores. Let them know what has happened and that you want to know any information they find out. The reality is that you will likely know more, but it makes them feel like they know more (stroking their ego) and gets them involved.

2) Dealers at conventions. Start talking with dealers at various conventions you attend when you ask to see their Valiant back issues. Let them know you are excited and can't wait to get the new books of your favorite characters. When dealers see fan enthusiasm it sticks with them, they want to make a buck off you and if they know there is interest in something then they are interested.

3) Chat with trade magazines. Wizard has a monthly letter column called "Magic Words." It's easy to write to them and ask questions (you can email: magicwords@wizarduniverse.com). We should start a campaign to get letters in their publication about: a) their recent increase in attention given to Valiant back issues, b) the recent aquisition by John Taddeo, and c) any other Valiant related questions/comments (and if you include a fart reference it might help...). Again, appeal to their egos and it will get you far.

4) Comic industry messsageboards. We are all very net savy on this board, and we all know of other comic industry messageboards that are out there. We could get on those boards and start talking about Valiant and all the things going on right now. This would bring imediate exposure to our favorite hobby, and let them know that good things are coming down the pipe.

These are all easy things to do. We already go to comic stores and convetions, and I'm sure talk to the retailers already about our Valiant fixation. It's a simple matter to push it a little further. Likewise, we already visit other messageboards. The only thing we might not already do is email Wizard, but I'm going to draft up an email today and send it.

A little nudge can go a long way.

Kyle

<man, I bet you couldn't tell I was in marketing for seven years...>

Good ideas. Frankly I think that EVERYTHING should start small. No big ads at first. Put out a quality product and THEN start advertising. Word of mouth would be the only "hype" or "ads" I'd like to see at least until things are up and running. The worst thing that could happen is to get the average collector's and dealer's hopes up and then be late on ship dates or have marginal stories.

Are we board members enough to support the line? No. Are Valiant fans? probably not, but maybe. I know that if Layton and/or Shooter and/or Bob Hall are on board, I'll buy multiples of each issue. I think that solicitation in Previews would be adequate warning/notice. My LCSs areound here carried the Acclaim stuff regularly and it did not sell.

I think word of mouth and previews solicitation would probably be ample to hit John's break even number of books.

VanHook · Post by **VanHook** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:28 pm

I, for one will support the new line by buying copies and mentioning it in interviews, etc. I am curious about the VIP, LLC. Any news on who that is?

Best,
KV

dave · Post by **dave** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:45 pm

If you think about some of the interest that surrounded valiant bringing back magnus and solar in the first place-comic READERS were interested to see an old character being brought back-that generated interest in and of itself for valiant and they didn't even have the internet back then (al gore was still working on it in his garage...)

I think that there is already enough to keep this one going...as long as a quality product is produced. Shooter and Layton together again? that will generate interest, as will the fan base that each of these well respected creators has.

The current buzz about the prices of some of the valiant rares helps too.

I do agree that there are some retailers out there who might refuse "on principle" because they somehow believe that valiant was responsible for the speculator market and the market crash which is ridiculous. Even those chumps will fall in line once positive things begin to happen.

I am going to have to start buying comics off the shelf again! oh no!

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:21 pm

8 new board members since the auction yesterday!!

Probably a TON more lurkers. Interest abounds!

dave · Post by **dave** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:43 pm

or are they signing up for other reasons??? wiat...if they haven't signed up-then they wouldn't know...hmmm...i dunno.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:14 am

If the stories are good....

...people will buy it.

If they are not....

.....they won't.

It's as simple as that.

There was no Wizard, Previews, Conventions, anything like that in 1938....and yet, look what happened.

There was none of that in 1961....and look what happened.

There was none of that in 1975....and look what happened.

If you tell good, entertaining stories that make sense, people will buy it, REGARDLESS of who it's by/from/for/with.

Will they sell 10 million copies? Probably not.

But they don't need to.

If it's good storytelling....

...people will buy it.

SolarFan777 · Post by **SolarFan777** » Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:04 am

It's a tough row to hoe...
The comic industry in general is down but maybe some new blood shot in the arm will do some good. Get it "blood shot"?

Seriously I will condier supporting this if, like ZWH said, the stories are good. I haven't bought anything new in years.

ValiantFans.com Board - Since 2004

Is it enough? A little bit of devil's advocate

Is it enough? A little bit of devil's advocate

Re: Is it enough? A little bit of devil's advocate

Re: Is it enough? A little bit of devil's advocate

New Valiant Comics