Adv. of Archer & Armstrong #1 Discussion

[grendeljd]

If anyone would like to hear our OTV:VCR podcast discussing/reviewing this issue (and Wrath of the Eternal Warrior #5, and Imperium #14), please follow the link;

http://onlythevaliant.com/episodes/vcr56/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks to any who listen in

[grendeljd]

I hate to say this, but I wasn't terribly impressed with this issue. The humour fell flat for me, I'm not a big fan of the manga-meets-Archie-comics style of cartoony art, and most importantly; the characterization of everyone was very bare bones & weak.

Any ground gained by the opening scene of Armstrong in the 50's was quickly burned up by spending too much of the rest of the issue harping on a single character note - shouting out favourite wine vintages. This guy... He's a drunk because he's world weary after 6000 years & has the noble soul of a poet. He knows what humanity is capable of being at its best and is disappointed when it doesn't strive for it. Barely a hint of that exists here.

And it's not much better for Archer - his growth as a character has been cut off at the knees, and we're left with a couple of simple character elements that are also painfully one-note & shallow.

Don't even get me started on Marie Maria.

I was really looking forward to a story arc that deals with The Satchel, it sounded like a great idea before reading this - but the whole thing was just a big slap-schtick zany romp for the sake of being zany.

I'm dissapointed by this first issue, it's pushing Archer & Armstrong too far into the Quantum & Woody realm of humour that begs to be not taken seriously. There's a place for that kind of book, but I think it's a mistake to give A&A that treatment. FVL delivered a really smart, sharply intelligent but very humorous run that also weaved some really cool stuff into the background of the greater Valiant U. I honestly think it's very close to being on par with what BWS did in the classic VH1 run.

I can't see this series approaching either of those runs any time soon, but I am also still open minded & will still be reading it to see where we go from here.

[Michael_Ayer]

Yes, first time ever that I hesitated to buy a Valiant (besides QW sequel). Very sad. I used to love AA. Now... I didn't care for the art, the characterization, the story, the stupid Bacchus and the dumb fish...

So not excited.

Valiant, listen to how many of us are not excited at all. This is like Dead Drop failure! It should be a requirement to read FVL run first!

[AnarchoMambo]

So I've only read the preview, and I'm happy to report that so far, I am in disagreement.

I think that dedicated Dr Who fans had to go through this years ago early in the reintroduction process: the show necessarily became less for enthusiasts, and had to give reasons for the more casual fan to tune in.

I think that's what we're seeing here: characterization which borders on cliche, but the friction of their interactions really gets to the heart of what makes each of them unique, and the resulting humor thereby deeper and more biting to my sensibility. Setting up a diverse ensemble cast seems to me a strategy for success, as any Joss Whedon project of the last twenty years would attest. A&a emojis, audio adventures on audible.com, and the Pale Ale premiere at C2E2 show flexibility in outreach towards drawing in new fans. In a marketplace where an updated Archie is a surprise hit, and in a superhero cinematic environment where "brood-dark" is being supplanted by a lighter ensemble humor of films like Guardians of the Galaxy, I really think that Valiant is on the right track with this, impressive as the FVL version of a couple years back was.

In Dr. Who, the growth in fan base achieved by Russell T Davies was impressive, and made possible the Steven Moffat era, which is more rewarding to the dedicated fan, in my opinion. I suggest that we mostly continue to "tune in" to this new Archer&Armstrong as much as possible. I have come to realize that if an entertainment property that I enjoy is to last, I have become comfortable with the fact it has to change. In the case of this comic and the quality it represents and the market in which it exists, I for one will embrace it.

[Keith]

I'm not hating this. The story hasn't hooked me yet, but I'm going to give it every chance.

The art is taking a bit of getting used to. The characterization is mostly spot on. Is it FVL? No, but it's close. Is it Dead Drop? Thank the lord, no.

[AnarchoMambo]

And the Rafer Roberts covers are sort of ridiculously awesome!

[jeremycoe]

I really liked it. I wasn't sure I was going to. Sure, it isn't FVL or BWS (maybe Rafer needs to add a third initial to his name ) but it was fun. I felt the art fit the story being told.

[Donovan]

I did enjoy the art. Great facial expressions and body language!

[greg]

Just throwing this out there...

All of the Valiant books thus far have made it clear that the general public is aware that there are superhumans among us. In Faith, we see that Torque is now a television star.

In some ways, I'm holding out a little bit of hope that Quantum & Woody, Delinquents, Dead Drop, and A&A: Adventures of A&A are all television shows (or some type of entertainment) within the Valiant universe. In the case of "Adventures of A&A", they would be separate from, but based upon, the real versions of Archer & Armstrong... plus a completely-fictional Davey the Mackerel. In the case of Quantum & Woody and the laser-eyed goat-father, they would be completely fictional... made for TV/movies... there would be no real laser-eyed goat-father. Delinquents would be the fictional story of Q&W (who aren't real at all) working with A&A (who are fictional versions of A&A) in a story that was just for television/movie/entertainment. Dead Drop would have been entertainment, a television cop-show/sci-fi mini-series, not actual events of the Valiant universe.

The most ridiculous portions of the Valiant universe might be fiction within the Valiant universe.

... at least, that's what I'm hoping.

[Donovan]

Aw Noodle Buckets! Say it ain't so, you son mumble-fudging son of a lady dog!

[jeremycoe]

[Brapbrap]

not as bad as I expected, I also found the vintage wines thing annoying but overall they didnt *SQUEE* up the characters too badly. They need to find a better colorist and also someone needs to remember that ARCHER HAS PSIOT POWERS

[nonplayer]

I don't usually read the previews but I skimmed this over. It's ok the art is interesting the fish guy was kinda need and monsters jumping from his open bag was what I would expect something locked in a weird world place to do if the door was left open. I'd be outty. I only bought the blank as I'm collecting all the blank covers I never really liked the characters A&A so I wasent planning to get this title ongoing.
I'll read my blank tonight.

[Dallow Spicer1]

Just throwing this out there...

All of the Valiant books thus far have made it clear that the general public is aware that there are superhumans among us. In Faith, we see that Torque is now a television star.

In some ways, I'm holding out a little bit of hope that Quantum & Woody, Delinquents, Dead Drop, and A&A: Adventures of A&A are all television shows (or some type of entertainment) within the Valiant universe. In the case of "Adventures of A&A", they would be separate from, but based upon, the real versions of Archer & Armstrong... plus a completely-fictional Davey the Mackerel. In the case of Quantum & Woody and the laser-eyed goat-father, they would be completely fictional... made for TV/movies... there would be no real laser-eyed goat-father. Delinquents would be the fictional story of Q&W (who aren't real at all) working with A&A (who are fictional versions of A&A) in a story that was just for television/movie/entertainment. Dead Drop would have been entertainment, a television cop-show/sci-fi mini-series, not actual events of the Valiant universe.

The most ridiculous portions of the Valiant universe might be fiction within the Valiant universe.

... at least, that's what I'm hoping.

I agree with this. An alternative might be that the whacky portions of the Valiant U are a separate imprint. By all means print them and if people want to read them then fine...but in the same universe as XO, Divinity, imperium etc...not for me!

Ps really hate that the laser eyed goat father is even a thing!

[wwise03]

I went in expecting to hate this, and absolutely loved it!

[depluto]

I had trepidations as well, but they were just flippin' bullcorn ... I loved this!

[Bl00dsh0t]

I had little interest in picking this up but couldn't resist the CGC variant my LCS held for me and I've got to say I'm pleasantly surprised. This was a fun read and a decent representation of the characters. Everything in this book just worked for me and I cant wait to see what happens next.

I am converted.

[JCP]

My LCS didn't order my copy so I'm waiting for mine in the mail still that I had to order from Graham Crackers. I probably shouldn't have read these reviews first.

[Phantom]

Step back. New writer, digged the quirkiness of it. Completely off the wall, and in no way keeping with 'in the real world' of valiant.
First I was put off how the inner workings of the bag worked, but take a step back, off the wall its pretty cool. Seemed underground. Not what we would normally see. Maybe its gonna work like quantum and woodie did for accliam.

[mateo107]

Well, better than I expected, there were some pages missing in the previews that added a lot. Still not a fan of how the main characters are drawn, but Mary Maria at least looked good. The FVL series had a sense of world building that expanded the line and crossed over into other books, but I can't help but think that the concepts in this series will never appear anywhere else.

[Sir Sandrick]

I loved it! I thought that it was some of the freshest writing that I have seen in a while and it kept me interested the whole time. I liked the bold new direction, even if the artist does do kneecaps a bit weird lol. It was a bold direction to go and I was not expecting much from it - went away pleased and optimistic about where it is headed!

[MC Kriet]

The art took some getting used to but it's growing on me.

My biggest concern with this issue was the characterization of Archer and Armstrong. I feel like Archer took a couple steps back from where he was at the end of the FVL run. I understand that some of this might be from highlighting a select few of their character traits so that new readers can catch on quicker about who these characters are but at the same time I feel like a new reader might just see two shallow characters that get into shananigans. Maybe this isn't awful but they're so much more than how they were portrayed in this issue. I'm hoping that as the story progresses we start seeing the Archer and Armstrong that are more rounded and dynamic.

[Donovan]

The art took some getting used to but it's growing on me.

My biggest concern with this issue was the characterization of Archer and Armstrong. I feel like Archer took a couple steps back from where he was at the end of the FVL run. I understand that some of this might be from highlighting a select few of their character traits so that new readers can catch on quicker about who these characters are but at the same time I feel like a new reader might just see two shallow characters that get into shananigans. Maybe this isn't awful but they're so much more than how they were portrayed in this issue. I'm hoping that as the story progresses we start seeing the Archer and Armstrong that are more rounded and dynamic.

After reading this book, I went back and read a few FVL issues, and it immediately jumps out to me that Archer's dialogue in particular took a step back. Maybe the dialogue between him and Mary Maria was close, but otherwise it's a miss for me. It's been narrowed so much to a cliche that it doesn't even seem like it's focused on his core. Just the naivety, and I think he's DEFINITELY grown since the first issue.

Still enjoy Lafuente's artwork. Yeah, I'm an odd duck.

[jmatt]

Mmm... not sure how I feel. The characters have become caricatures of the ones we're accustomed to. And I suppose that, given the art, that's apropos.

But it's a new release aimed at new readers, so I can understand the one-dimensionality of the characters.

I've always liked the concept of Aram's satchel but I'm ambivalent with this interpretation of it. I can hear the pitch now: "What if instead of pulling things from the bag, they could enter into it..."

The overall story concept is certainly kookier than we've seen for Archer and Armstrong, venturing deep into Q&W territory. But I'm willing to give it a whirl.

I think the names of the other Sisters of Perpetual Darkness was the funniest thing about it. Miley, Kaylee and Britney.

I can see the last panel already: Aram retrieves his bottle, visit's Fred's grave and pours a drink onto it.

[BugsySig]

I had my doubts heading into this one, especially with some of the reviews here, but I thoroughly enjoyed it.

The three biggest complaints seem to be:

1. The art - Not my typical cup of tea, but it's consistent and dynamic.

2. The characterization of Archer - Fair enough. This seems like something everyone except FVL has struggled with.

3. The "fantasticness" of the story - This is a series which included a trip to a time-displaced dimension filled with dinosaurs, where the protagonists fought grey aliens with the help of a time traveler and Amelia Earhart. Then it took them into a confrontation with, among others, the dwarves of Zurich, the black block, undead nuns, and Nazi llamas, before traveling to a higher plane of existence controlled by Jim Morrison and inhabited by Elvis, Tupac and Biggie Smalls. But a talking fish bothers you?