Valiant Universe - 40 months in... what's important?

[greg]

Many comic books are not immediately "key issues" because we don't know what will happen with those characters. After a few years, it's more apparent which characters are important in the stories of the universe. The "first appearances" of those characters tend to become a focal point, if they aren't already, with fans and collectors beginning the search for these newly identified "key issues".

The current Valiant Universe is based heavily upon the groundwork laid by the 1990s Valiant Universe, so there are many characters whose first appearances have been known for decades. Harada is in Solar #3 (1991), Aric is in X-O Manowar #1 (1992), etc.

But now we're 40 months into the Valiant Universe that began with X-O Manowar #1 in May 2012... so, which new characters are important, and where did we see them first?
(We can add to the list as the discussion progresses)

(alphabetical)
Anon-Lurker – Ivar, Timewalker #2 (2015)
* Armor Hunters - X-O Manowar #24 (2014)
* Bleeding Monk - Harbinger #1 (2012)
* Commander Trill (Vine) - X-O Manowar #1 (2012)
Darpan - Harbinger #2 (2012)
* Divinity (Abram Adams) - Divinity #1 (2015)
Generation Zero (Cronus, Telic, Traveler, etc.) - Harbinger Wars #1 (2013)
GIN-GR - X-O Manowar #24 (2014)
Ingrid Hillcraft - Harbinger #3 (2012)
Livewire (Amanda McKee) - Harbinger #3 (2012), significant differences from Livewire of the 1990s Valiant
Mary Maria Archer - Archer & Armstrong #1 (2012)
Dr. Neela Sethi - Ivar, Timewalker #1 (2015)
* Punk Mambo - Shadowman #13 (2013)
Roku - Ninjak #1 (2015)
* Dr. Shan Fong (Doctor Mirage) - Shadowman #5 (2013)
Sunlight on Snow (Mech Major) - Imperium #1 (2015), perhaps the same entity as "Goldie Boy" nanites in Bloodshot

NOTE: the * indicates this character is in the title of at least one issue (either a series, or a #0 special)

I don't want to be the only one having fun, so let's keep it going.
To suggest more for the list, be sure to mention the comic with the first appearance.

[nscc]

Darpan the Mirror - Harbinger 2
Neville Alcott - X-O 5
Gen Zero - harbinger wars 1
Punk mambo - Shadowman 13

Not sure if they will all be important and there are a bunch more too, but those are ones I remember

..Edited to remove listing Mary maria again

[jeremycoe]

Divinity - Divinity 1

[Brapbrap]

Darpan the Mirror - Harbinger 2
Neville Alcott - X-O 5
Gen Zero - harbinger wars 1
Punk mambo - Shadowman 13

Not sure if they will all be important and there are a bunch more too, but those are ones I remember

..Edited to remove listing Mary maria again

I think Gen Zero are in Bloodshot first

[possumgrease]

Shan Fong as Dr. Mirage - Shadowman 5.

Arguably, this is merely a gender-swap and not a substantially new character like the new Livewire.

[possumgrease]

Major Mech/Sunlight on Snow - Imperium #1

[greg]

Shan Fong as Dr. Mirage - Shadowman 5.

Arguably, this is merely a gender-swap and not a substantially new character like the new Livewire.

I think Shan Fong is substantially a new character.
Carmen Mirage (or if it's a gender-swap, Hwen Mirage) was very different from Shan Fong.

[greg]

Neville Alcott - X-O 5

Neville is an original 1990s Valiant character, pretty much the same (unless someone wants to make a case).

[Keith]

Roku - Ninjak #1
GIN-GR (and the other Armor Hunters) - X-O Manowar #24

[FormerReader]

Not to sidetrack the discussion, but any ideas on why the market has decided Divinity's first appearance is in high demand, but no body else's is. I would argue there are characters on this list that are more important to the Valiant universe.

[kjjohanson]

The Shadow Seven as a group, and some individual members – Ninjak #4
AnonLurker – Ivar, Timewalker #2
*The 1% – A&A #1
Alyssa & Dox – Shadowman #1

We've been told there are plans in store for many of the characters that first appear in that one panel in Book of Death #1.

I'd say Kris Hathaway is significantly different in the reboot.

I think there are cameos of some of Gen Zero at the end of Bloodshot 6, then a few specific characters in #7, before we see a bunch more full appearances in 8.

[greg]

Not to sidetrack the discussion, but any ideas on why the market has decided Divinity's first appearance is in high demand, but no body else's is. I would argue there are characters on this list that are more important to the Valiant universe.

The 350 print run for Divinity #1 1:40 variant is one reason.

Generally, though, I think people are focused on the "first Valiant title that isn't from the 1990s" aspect. Divinity is a new character, like some of the others, but the others didn't get their own title to go along with their first appearance.

[greg]

Generation Zero is a tough one to lock down for "first appearance".

In Bloodshot #6 (2013), we see multiple psiot children being held by Project Rising Spirit and guarded by Gamma. Bloodshot is able to rescue those children and head into the desert by the time of the Harbinger Wars crossover (a few issues later). In Harbinger Wars #1 (2013), we meet Generation Zero members Cronus, Telic, Traveler, etc., and we know that Cronus is the leader of the Generation Zero team. However, it's not clear (to me) whether any of the Generation Zero children were rescued by Bloodshot in earlier issues.

For that matter, is it possible that members of Generation Zero were shown in the Harbinger Foundation building way back in Harbinger #3 (2012)?

[FormerReader]

Not to sidetrack the discussion, but any ideas on why the market has decided Divinity's first appearance is in high demand, but no body else's is. I would argue there are characters on this list that are more important to the Valiant universe.

The 350 print run for Divinity #1 1:40 variant is one reason.

Generally, though, I think people are focused on the "first Valiant title that isn't from the 1990s" aspect. Divinity is a new character, like some of the others, but the others didn't get their own title to go along with their first appearance.

This will be my last comment sidetracking the discussion. I thought Dino said they always print 1000 for each book. Has that changed? I can see that I guess I thought Punk Mambo got a solo issue first so why no interest? Livewire has been in multiple books and is arguable the most important new character to be introduced since the relaunch. I'm glad Divinity is getting noticed, I'm just surprised no one else is.

[greg]

Not to sidetrack the discussion, but any ideas on why the market has decided Divinity's first appearance is in high demand, but no body else's is. I would argue there are characters on this list that are more important to the Valiant universe.

The 350 print run for Divinity #1 1:40 variant is one reason.

Generally, though, I think people are focused on the "first Valiant title that isn't from the 1990s" aspect. Divinity is a new character, like some of the others, but the others didn't get their own title to go along with their first appearance.

This will be my last comment sidetracking the discussion. I thought Dino said they always print 1000 for each book. Has that changed?

The minimum of 1,000 copies was true during 2012 and possibly 2013. It hasn't been stated since that time, and other statements have indicated numbers as low as the 350 on Divinity #1 1:40.

I can see that I guess I thought Punk Mambo got a solo issue first so why no interest? Livewire has been in multiple books and is arguable the most important new character to be introduced since the relaunch. I'm glad Divinity is getting noticed, I'm just surprised no one else is.

I don't think the portion of the hobby that pushes the prices of new comics due to speculation (or whatever) is really following Valiant very closely. Most of those who push new comic prices higher are following a trend, and in the case of Valiant, most of us are happy to get a copy of Valiant books for $3.99 because we are readers. That doesn't set many trends for speculators to follow.

There are a number of low-print variants from Valiant that sell for $50+, but they are almost entirely driven by scarcity, not necessarily story contents.

We are the ones who determine what's important to us in the Valiant universe, and with 3.5 years of stories... we should be getting a clearer picture. Once that's established with some level of consensus, we can push that information outward... similar to http://www.valiant101.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Most of the books on that "Lesson 1" page have seen their prices increase in recent years... because they are the foundations that the new Valiant Universe has used.

With 3.5 years of stories in hand, it's time to talk about the next layer (Lesson 2) of the Valiant Universe which was built upon that foundation.

(... and if there was any question, valiant101.com is one of my sites)

[Brapbrap]

Generation Zero is a tough one to lock down for "first appearance".

In Bloodshot #6 (2013), we see multiple psiot children being held by Project Rising Spirit and guarded by Gamma. Bloodshot is able to rescue those children and head into the desert by the time of the Harbinger Wars crossover (a few issues later). In Harbinger Wars #1 (2013), we meet Generation Zero members Cronus, Telic, Traveler, etc., and we know that Cronus is the leader of the Generation Zero team. However, it's not clear (to me) whether any of the Generation Zero children were rescued by Bloodshot in earlier issues.

For that matter, is it possible that members of Generation Zero were shown in the Harbinger Foundation building way back in Harbinger #3 (2012)?

I don't think PRS's psiots came from The Harbinger Foundation. I just had quick look through Bloodshot and noticed that Kalea / Cloud appears and is called by name in Bloodshot #7, which is I think the first appearance of a Gen Zero character.

[jeremycoe]

Not to sidetrack the discussion, but any ideas on why the market has decided Divinity's first appearance is in high demand, but no body else's is. I would argue there are characters on this list that are more important to the Valiant universe.

The 350 print run for Divinity #1 1:40 variant is one reason.

Generally, though, I think people are focused on the "first Valiant title that isn't from the 1990s" aspect. Divinity is a new character, like some of the others, but the others didn't get their own title to go along with their first appearance.

This will be my last comment sidetracking the discussion. I thought Dino said they always print 1000 for each book. Has that changed? I can see that I guess I thought Punk Mambo got a solo issue first so why no interest? Livewire has been in multiple books and is arguable the most important new character to be introduced since the relaunch. I'm glad Divinity is getting noticed, I'm just surprised no one else is.

And Punk Mambo's solo issue wasn't her first appearance.

[FormerReader]

With 3.5 years of stories in hand, it's time to talk about the next layer (Lesson 2) of the Valiant Universe which was built upon that foundation.

(... and if there was any question, valiant101.com is one of my sites)

Thanks for the reply Greg.

[BugsySig]

How about XO's daughter? Lula from Rai? Kay McHenry, Tama, the 4001 Geomancer? Magic?

[Bl00dsh0t]

Tama - The Valiant #4

The new geomancer looks set to play a significant role in the Valiant U (and has done already given her battle with Darque)

Most of the other 'significant' characters who could have or have had an impact on changing the Valiant landscape have been mentioned already, though Magic from Bloodshot Reborn #4 (I think she first appeared) could also prove to be a big name character down the line.

[ValiantCentral]

These are being tracked here FYI http://www.valiantdatabase.com/books/keys" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, not to be confused with http://www.valiantdatabase.com/books/classic/keys" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (inspired by Greg's page of course)

[jmatt]

Angela Peace Baingana Imperium #2
Gravedog Imperium #2
LV-99 Imperium #4 (?)

The issue numbers are just a guess based on a search of their first mention in the spoiler section. For some reason, search says there's no mention of LV-99 in any post. But then again it says the same thing about "X-O".

More ideas:

Vine priest X-O #1
Creature from another dimension that steals Angela's eyes Imperium #4
The other two cosmonauts Divinity #3
The Lyceum Historian SLDM #2 (?)

This one is a reach: The fetus we saw resist GIN-GR's attack on Mexico City. Talk about a first appearance.

[Elveen]

I think the new VEI characters that will be a big deal are:

Livewire
Darpan
Cronos
Dr M
The Monk

This spec is all based of movie appearances.

I don't see how they can get divinity in the first few flicks, but I'd be trying if I could.
Maybe they can do a cut scene at the end.

[jmatt]

I agree with Elveen from a collectors point of view. The movies will drive what the public sees as "important". There will of course be ancillary speculation among comic book readers for other characters they perceive as potential movie content.

From a non-collectors point of view, a reader's view, what's "important" is all just a matter of taste and limited to the minuscule VEI reader base of maybe 7500 actual readers. Which is kinda sad. The movies could change that, too.