Unity: A casually negative pre-mortem

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:31:37 pm

The announced cancellation of Unity has me going over the things that miffed me about this title.

The book has been weird from the start. That whole head-fake with The Captain and his team in issue #1? That's how you wanna kick off a new team book bearing the name of the single most remembered and revered Valiant property? With a gag?

I remember reading that and feeling the same way I did with the "I'm Shadowman" moment at the end of Shadowman #1. "Oy. Did they really think that was a good idea?"

The Silk arc seemed disjointed, the visual virus thing was never sold convincingly and then there was the unexplained 'warehouses of toy robots' thing.

The United didn't just seem contrived, it was actually contrived in the book. "The Americans have a superhero team, we must create one too!" Its conception was totally inorganic.

The historical Unity Teams, while not completely without charm, was an obvious attempt to establish some lore for the Unity concept. I like universe building ideas, but what purpose did that serve? What ulterior dictum or moral or theme was conveyed by their existence? Some of them were put together by government at the time, others were just supers who happen to fall in together. There is no over riding thread or basis for them.

Gilad given the ability to jump out of aircraft and sustain no damage. I won't even get into the 'through skyscrapers' aspect, that's been covered.

Not enough team. Three solo issues followed by three more issues of each member going up against warmonger, alone.

Faith comes. Faith goes. Okay, I like a rotating and mixed cast in a team book. Not sure this qualifies.

Feh. What might have been.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:35:26 pm

Good points ... none of it bothered me as much as the Faith fakeout. That could have been an interesting direction.

lorddunlow · Post by **lorddunlow** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:22:56 pm

I like this thread.

I felt like this was a bait and switch from the beginning. I actually enjoyed it for a while. Haven't even made it through the United arc. Read the first issue of that. Went no further.

I don't get what was going on.

ilzuccone · Post by **ilzuccone** » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:50:47 pm

jmatt wrote: What might have been.

QFT.

should have been a full throttle book from day one.

dornwolf · Post by **dornwolf** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:45:35 am

I didn`t mind the first two arcs. Armor Hunters kind a delayed what might`ve been and then properly derailed. Unity could`ve been a great place to introduce bigger concepts into the universe. At least before everyone started getting their own books.

mateo107 · Post by **mateo107** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:31:15 pm

I thought Unity had a great start but then suffered from diminishing returns every subsequent arc.

I actually liked the "fake-out" with the Captain's Unity team in the first issue, it reminded me of the lackluster JLA team being taken out in Grant Morrison's JLA #1, making way for the big 7 to take over. The first arc delivered everything I wanted from a team book, Livewire momentarily becoming XO Manowar, Harada shifting from hero villain, and Aric from villain to hero. It really reminded me of the first year of the original Avengers series, and I thought it was positioned to keep going strong.

The second arc was too short, but it set up great villain who I thought should have played a bigger role in the series than just the villain-of-the-month. Kindt started to give us chemistry and interaction between the characters, and by the Armor Hunters arc, Gilad and Ninjak had a comaraderie reminiscent of Superman/Batman.

The United arc at first looked like it was going to set a new status quo for the team, but nothing really changed. Faith came and went, and this was the last time the series felt like a "team" book. What killed it was two back-to-back arcs of character spotlights. This would have made more sense, for instance, before Ninjak had his own book, but by this time it was redundant. We also didn't really need these all at once, I think it would have worked better to distribute these in between arcs. These could have also been a series of one-shots, there seemed to be no reason for them to take up space in Unity.

Warmonger was a complete misfire, focusing on one character at a time in the present day, but just for a few pages, and devoting the rest of it to past teams with no compelling reason to care about them. I imagine only die-hard Valiant completionists stayed through this whole arc. Maybe VEI realized new readers don't jump into a series at issue #20 anymore, but I don't think it was enough to keep the attention of faithful readers either.

Unfortunately, the book doesn't look like it will get a chance to redeem itself. James Asmus gets a filler arc and then a throw-away comedy issue will close out the series with a whimper. It's strange, because the series as a whole doesn't read like it's a continuous series. The arcs read like disconnected miniseries, there weren't continued plot threads running through it. Divinity could have just as well been an arc of Unity, as much as any arc of Unity could have been its own series like Divinity. I really hope Valiant will try again with a real team book, but I suppose since it wasn't being done right here then canceling Unity isn't a loss of anything but potential.

JonesyAZ · Post by **JonesyAZ** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:09:25 pm

This has been one book that I've loved since day one; for its' unorthodox take on team books. However...like my VCR buddy Hawkeyeps, the most recent "Warmonger" arc has pretty much derailed any excitement I've had for the title. That being said, I'm looking forward to Asmus' two issue tale and the again unorthodox "Comedy Special" that will finish off the title.

Hey, with one book out of the way, now Valiant can focus on the book it really wants to release: Psilords. Oh yeah!!!

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:39:30 pm

To be fair, the book did of course have some great moments and was enjoyable. Even though they didn't fit the team premise, the solo issues were good. And I can't say that any one arc was unenjoyable, just that they each had their own weaknesses.

While in most books I don't like the villain of the month approach, this is the one title that could have pulled that off and been an engine for creating more baddies to populate the Valiant universe. I even like the general concept of Warmonger -- but it should have been two issues not four.

And that's how the book should have played out, as a rocket ride through a parade of villains that are dispatched and then go on to cause mayhem in other titles. Two issue arcs where they loop back around and take another pass at a villain that re-appears 24 months later.

In retrospect, this title may have fallen from the desire to make each arc the size of a TPB.

tiredofmyself · Post by **tiredofmyself** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:40:12 am

Matt Kindt needs to be an editor instead of writer. He can't finish a story with proper climax. At least Robert Vinditti can maintain a flat line of awesomeness. Matt always start with awesome ideas (To kill a king - Not that one! Silk! United - look more like good guys than Unity! Revolution against Father! Immortal Enemy! Divinity!) and ended up as underwhelming as possible. I have significantly lowered my expectation for resolution of Ninjak arcs and just enjoyed the ride.

Besides that, Unity suffered from all the events and minis. Imagine if Unity is main book of all the crossovers and absorb the two minis, it will truly be the greatest team book on market. Instead Valiant had to learn from the Big Two and split storyline from the book to sell more events and minis. This happened with Marvel's AXIS. An Uncanny Avengers arc is turned into event, messing up all the continuities and pacing of other books and the event itself is one of the worst in Marvel event history.

dornwolf · Post by **dornwolf** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:17:49 am

tiredofmyself wrote: Matt Kindt needs to be an editor instead of writer. He can't finish a story with proper climax. At least Robert Vinditti can maintain a flat line of awesomeness. Matt always start with awesome ideas (To kill a king - Not that one! Silk! United - look more like good guys than Unity! Revolution against Father! Immortal Enemy! Divinity!) and ended up as underwhelming as possible. I have significantly lowered my expectation for resolution of Ninjak arcs and just enjoyed the ride.

Besides that, Unity suffered from all the events and minis. Imagine if Unity is main book of all the crossovers and absorb the two minis, it will truly be the greatest team book on market. Instead Valiant had to learn from the Big Two and split storyline from the book to sell more events and minis. This happened with Marvel's AXIS. An Uncanny Avengers arc is turned into event, messing up all the continuities and pacing of other books and the event itself is one of the worst in Marvel event history.

Oh come now there are plenty of really crappy Marvel events in recent history. Hell there are character arcs that are literally worse.

Though I'll agree they shouldn't of splintered the book in such away.

tiredofmyself · Post by **tiredofmyself** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:36:54 am

dornwolf wrote:
tiredofmyself wrote: Matt Kindt needs to be an editor instead of writer. He can't finish a story with proper climax. At least Robert Vinditti can maintain a flat line of awesomeness. Matt always start with awesome ideas (To kill a king - Not that one! Silk! United - look more like good guys than Unity! Revolution against Father! Immortal Enemy! Divinity!) and ended up as underwhelming as possible. I have significantly lowered my expectation for resolution of Ninjak arcs and just enjoyed the ride.

Besides that, Unity suffered from all the events and minis. Imagine if Unity is main book of all the crossovers and absorb the two minis, it will truly be the greatest team book on market. Instead Valiant had to learn from the Big Two and split storyline from the book to sell more events and minis. This happened with Marvel's AXIS. An Uncanny Avengers arc is turned into event, messing up all the continuities and pacing of other books and the event itself is one of the worst in Marvel event history.
Oh come now there are plenty of really crappy Marvel events in recent history. Hell there are character arcs that are literally worse.

Though I'll agree they shouldn't of splintered the book in such away.

It's just to illustrate the industrial standard of taking a team book arc out to make it something like a event or minis hurts both the team book and the entire line-up involved.

Although come to think of it, the first arc of Unity is resolved in such a underwhelming way (We got the armor back = we beat Harada delusion), they should go all the way and merge the Harbingers arc into this "event" so the actual ending is Renegades coming out of nowhere to expose Harada to the world.

Brapbrap · Post by **Brapbrap** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:03:48 am

axis was easily the best event marvel have done in a while, so many great miniseries and story arcs came out of it. compare it to the absolute dreck that came before it in original sin, infinity, avx, e.t.c.

leonmallett · Post by **leonmallett** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:22:49 am

jmatt wrote:...
Feh. What might have been.

I agree with every point you made, more or less, but this comment sums it all up.

Too much freedom given to Kindt in my humble opinion. This book should have been, and should still be, one of a couple of flagship books. Instead it seems to have been Kindt's writing experimentation playground. Entertainment seemed to take a back seat to technique and structure, and what was left, the technique and structure Kindt was exploring, simply has not been compelling.

For me, a really wasted opportunity by VEI. If they want to set themselves up as an indie-darling publisher, they will sell like one. If they have real ambition, they need to accept that the freedom afforded Kindt on Unity (and arguably The Valiant) arguably contradicts that ambition for flagship books.

ChiptheRipper · Post by **ChiptheRipper** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:21:28 am

I liked Unity the whole time. I'm not expecting Shakespeare, I'm reading a comic book. I think some of you guys are a bit spoiled by how good Valiant has been, because if one thing is even a tiny bit cheesy I come on here an everyone is acting like it's the death of an entire artform. I'm new here, and from an outside perspective this website seems to be 50% complaining that Valiant shouldn't be like every other cape comic, and 50% complaining that the good guys don't always win and wrap everything up nice and neat like in every other cape comic

. For example, I thought Aric killing the "original" Unity team was a neat twist. I thought Unity having to be recruited by a government agency was more interesting than "all the good guys unite out of the goodness of their hearts". I liked in the Silk arc when Ninjak and Aric let all the civilians die- they are government operatives and the mission comes first. It's definitely one of the weakest titles Valiant has put out, but that's like complaining about a B- on a report card to me.

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:59:00 am

I liked Unity, and had high hopes for it. It seemed to me that it suffered from too many situations that were set up and deserved a deeper exploration, but went nowhere after the 3 or 4 issue tpb limit was hit.

- Dr. Silk introduced, but not heard from again
- The visual virus had two parts, iirc. The alien aspect... not explored. The ancient symbols that trigger it... not explored.
- Dr. silk tells Livewire she is immune because she is not human. Next arc, never mind, she is. No further explanation.
- The United were introduced and.........

Personally, I though Malgam was less the best choice for the big bad in the previous arc, and really think they should have restructured it to play off the conflict with Divinity. And the Warmonger arc could have gone with another issue or two to establish why she is a threat (and while we're at it, but back on the swearing, and the "present day" art was awful."). I did like the introduction of previous Unity teams. I'd like to think this is fertile ground for Valiant to explore. The Secret History of the Valiant Universe begs to be told!

I do like that the book is ending in story because the team is falling apart. They never did seem to gel, and the heavy hand of MI-6 and G.A.T.E. adds a further discord.

If I had my way, we will see G.A.T.E. create their own Secret Weapons team. A new Unity will reform when Gilad gets back from whatever happens after Book of Death.

agent_graves · Post by **agent_graves** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:55:24 am

It was a good thought, some were better than others. But looking back, it had no direction, I'm sure I'm probably alone on this one but, I think Kind-t should have kept Harada around, in that leadership role. Also, expand the roster, have a good mix of characters, if Unity is suppose to be Valiants, Jla/Avengers, it never quit felt that way.

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:19:50 pm

Unity is the only title that has left me feeling a bit jaded with the new Valiant ..

The name Unity is such an important name for Valiant fans -- It is the name of the most epic crossover in comics I have ever read.

But with VEI the only thing really epic was the maketing push/gimmick for that 1st issue

the story and concept was not epic -- it was overall a letdown.

And now its ending with a comedy special -- that feels like the jokes on me.

The opening arc -- had some nice moments but overall lacked cohesion and felt disjointed. Kind-t, got the main concept of Harada but played down his powers. Its like he was VH1 Harada and not the mega-bad *SQUEE* that Dysart created in which you don't want to be in the same room with him unless you have Psiot dampening capabilities or a Psiot blocking Helmet.

The Silk 2nd arc, had plenty of ambition but was confusing and seemed to end too abrupt. Like it should have been a longer arc but editorial cut it short for Armor Hunters.

The Unity Armor Hunter story arc was pretty bleh with some flat out bad story ideas like Livewire thinking of killing herself because she wore the X-O suit.

I actually have been enjoying the recent arcs -- I thought the United was a great story arc introducing some pretty cool new characters. Some of those characters joining Unity would have actually made the title more interesting.

War Monger and the legacy of past Unity's was pretty good as well.

But the lingering problems always remained ... why is the team essentially only 3 characters?

X-O makes a big speech by officially going public in AH: Aftermath about the beginning of Unity -- and he is basically MIA after that except for the Divinity mini-series.

And I'm guessing its marketing that decided that Gilad needed this costume and Axe that was introduced in ancient times because they wanted to stick with one look for Gilad -- cause its "cool". Even though its still hasn't been explained why an expert in war and military and fighting is using the same look and weapon from thousands of years ago?

I have no doubt that Unity will be back with a new series. I'm hoping that when it gets re-launched it has a greater concept and long term story arc plan. More characters. More Characters. More *NEW* characters! Livewire along with Gin-GR + a whole slew of cool new characters would be very cool to see.

jmatt · Post by **jmatt** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:05:25 pm

bygranddesign wrote:I have no doubt that Unity will be back with a new series. I'm hoping that when it gets re-launched it has a greater concept and long term story arc plan.

The problem with that is the same characters have continuity in their own books / minis to maintain.

bygranddesign wrote: More characters. More Characters. More *NEW* characters! Livewire along with Gin-GR + a whole slew of cool new characters would be very cool to see.

+1

hunter_peterson · Post by **hunter_peterson** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:26:23 pm

jmatt wrote:
bygranddesign wrote:I have no doubt that Unity will be back with a new series. I'm hoping that when it gets re-launched it has a greater concept and long term story arc plan.
The problem with that is the same characters have continuity in their own books / minis to maintain.

bygranddesign wrote: More characters. More Characters. More *NEW* characters! Livewire along with Gin-GR + a whole slew of cool new characters would be very cool to see.
+1

I agree on a new Unity. I'd like to see GATE assemble a new Unity team of:

Livewire
Gin-Gr
Malgam
Roku
Xaran (the Eternal Hunter)

Alternately, Archer and Armstrong can be subbed for Xaran. But otherwise that gives us a team that can actually be developed in one book and that echoes the Big Three.

BugsySig · Post by **BugsySig** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:46:30 pm

The first two arcs were good. It started off with a bang, then VEI dropped the ball starting with Armor Hunters. It was all down hill from there. The United arc had a few good moments (and The Myth is possibly my favorite new character to come out of VEI), and the solo focus issues were very good before a lame conclusion with Malgam.

Unity should have been VEI's event book. As I mentioned in other threads, if Unity had gone from XO v Harada, to Webnet, to Armor Hunters, to Divinity, to The Valiant, to Book of Death...wow. But VEI felt it was better to shoe horn in a lame arc of Gilad and Ninjak fighting dogs instead of just having the main story of AH run through Unity. And it was better to spin Divinity off into its own mini instead of intro in the character, then having Unity take him on. And while The Valiant and BoD have involved...oh! Unity! They were pitched as "event minis". That really just left Unity with nothing to do.

Let's have a team book with real purpose! Real action! Real consequences for the VALIANT Universe!

Some ideas...

Darque Passages: Shadowman, Gilad, Dr. Mirage, Punk Mambo, Roku and Sandria Darque follow Master Darque through various dimensions from Deadside to Lyceum and beyond.

Secret Weapons: Livewire leads mission specific teams on various cosmic and espionage style missions. Gin-Gr, XO, Malgam, The Myth, Roku, Ninjak, Chronos, Mary-Maria, Gunslinger, etc.

String · Post by **String** » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:48:43 am

Overall, I've enjoyed this title. It's had its' highs and lows certainly, but it's been an atypical team book. I think it's biggest obstacle has been a lack of clearly defined purpose. They also need to lose the overbearing governmental control.

apainter · Post by **apainter** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:18:05 am

I've held the idea for awhile that Kindt creates great, detailed stories, he just doesn't let us know what they are. I'm reasonably sure he has all the details and history in his head, but he holds back information from his readers. Maybe he just assumes we'll get that information between the lines.

Either that, or he's just sloppy. I can't decide which.

I mean, the whole visual virus thing, and the re-re-re-copying of Dell. (BTW, is Silk's Dell the same as the WWI era Dell? I think so, but I'm not sure. He's never made that connection clear.) Dell, by this point, was totally opposed to Silk and his virus. She knows the virus has a visual component. That visual component is tattooed on her shoulder, and SHE WALKS AROUND WITH IT EXPOSED!!! This passes without explanation. So a woman who opposes his plan is actually spreading it. Is she deliberately triggering the virus, planning to reveal the infected and take them out? No explanation. (Also, there's an annoying typo in this arc. At one point, Silk says his virus infected everyone who stepped foot in Thailand. Silk's base is in Taiwan, not Thailand. At least, I think it's a typo. Maybe Silk has infected Thailand too, and it just never came up again, because Kindt.)

The end of Divinity was confusing. Were the talking images of his wife and child "real" or projections by Livewire? Both? (My take? Divinity's "wish fulfillment" power worked too well on Unity, and it allowed them to get to him, as mentioned in the story. Once they got through, Livewire's projections of his wife and kid turned Divinity's power on itself, and he got caught in a kind of feedback loop.)

The first arc of Rai is problematic. What is the problem with Father? The society seems well off. Functioning. Not in need of anything. A bit too complacent maybe, but not suffering. Yet there's a conspiracy against Father based on some unknown evil he's responsible for. At the end of the first arc, we learn what happened to Rai's mother, and he turns against him. What happened to Rai's mom is tragic, but hardly a call for the overthrow of their society. The people Rai had been fighting against seem much, much worse, at any rate. In the arcs since, we've seen the things Father's been doing, but we didn't see them in the first arc, and neither did Rai. So he's basically calling for the overthrow of their society because his mom died under suspicious circumstances.

Back to Unity: it was a big deal to recruit Bloodshot, only to be shuffled off into the AH: Bloodshot series.

JMatt mentioned it earlier, but I'll repeat it: I hate Kindt's version of Gilad's power. As was said in the first EW issue, he's immortal, not invulnerable. What could be a threat to him if he can crash through buildings without a scratch?

In general though, I like Unity. I like the team, and how they interact, especially Ninjak. I like Ninjak in Unity more than his solo series. He's more fun with the team.

Art

NinJZA · Post by **NinJZA** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 3:50:31 pm

I was getting excited for the upcoming Unity hardcover coming out until reading this thread. Now I might have to just check it out on Scribd.

Captain Craig · Post by **Captain Craig** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:27:17 pm

The truth is that now into year 3 the misses are starting to pile up for VEI.
Pulling Divinity arc out of the title didn't help it one bit. I'd suggest it partially sabotaged the title. Poor decision.
Ending the title with this "All Comedy" special is another WTF idea.

Misses in the last 1.5yrs
Turning Jack/Shadowman seemingly evil and dropping him altogether.
Uneven and mismanaged Eternal Warrior ongoing/mini that don't even tie together. NOT.ONE.ARC.
Killing Kay/Geomancer with little character development before we could love her.
Needlessly renumbering Bloodshot, thank god Bloodsquirt seems gone, horrid psyche manifestation idea.
UNITY's slide into mediocrity this past year
DEAD DROP, enough said
Ivar, no major marketing push outside the initial launch.
The VALIANT -- lets face it, didn't really deliver and was one big set up for Bloodshot Reborn. Very well could've been BS #26-29.

Hits:
X-O
RAI
Imperium
Book of Death
Dr.Mirage
Ninjak

Middle Ground
I'm placing Divinity onto middle ground as I'm not sold that it delivered either. It's amount of confusion keeps me waffling on it.
Bloodshot Reborn is in an odd middle ground as well for me. This gal Magic, who was the druggie girlfriend of one of the infected "Red Circle Killers" is now going to be following Ray around. Just doesn't make sense, barely know each other.

bygranddesign · Post by **bygranddesign** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:25:24 pm

Agree with much of what you said Craig

But Ivar wasn't a miss

if it concludes in a satisfactory way (and I believe FVL when he says 12 issues was always the intention)

Then it was a creative success ... And I would put it on the plus column

We can criticize the marketing push for the title ... But I respect that Valiant had enough confidence in FVL's vision that they allowed him to tell this story. No crossovers. No gimmicks. Just a 12 issue story that (hopefully) tells a complete and satisfying story. And I look forward to buying the hardcover so I can read it all over again.

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Unity: A casually negative pre-mortem

Unity: A casually negative pre-mortem

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