Divinity #4

[Brapbrap]

A really boring ending in my opinion, are Unity just going to put all their enemies in spheres and forget about them? Also didn't like that Unity took Divinity away when 3 of them didn't think it was the right thing to do, Livewire and Aric have always tried to do the right thing rather than what their superiors tell them to do so why are they so out of character in this arc?

[Keith]

A really boring ending in my opinion, are Unity just going to put all their enemies in spheres and forget about them? Also didn't like that Unity took Divinity away when 3 of them didn't think it was the right thing to do, Livewire and Aric have always tried to do the right thing rather than what their superiors tell them to do so why are they so out of character in this arc?

Yeah, this ending was a little too similar to how things resolved with Malgam in the last Unity arc. So how does Harada interact with Divinity in Imperium if the Big D is currently a bubble boy in Unity's warehouse?

I don't know if I'd say Gilad/X-O/and Livewire were acting out of character... more like they screwed up big time in confronting Divinity heavy handed and didn't realize initially what he was all about. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that. Ninjak and Neville certainly have a different outlook than them.

[agent_graves]

I liked it, even though it played out similar to the Unity/Malgam situation, it was more of a character piece, the moments with his family that never was, were heartbreaking. He was never really in the fight, his mind was elsewhere, and still is, his imprisonment is more of a refuge for him, he can leave whenever he wants, but at the moment, he's more concerned with bonding with his daughter, (he let Eva go, but brought back a younger Anya) making up for lost time. Another interesting subplot, David Camp and The Traverlers, their movement, spreading the Gospel of Divinity, Abram has a cult following.

At first I thought continuity, lined up well with Unity, but looking back, the package in #17, was Malgam from #18. Divinity will be making a brief appearance in BOD #1, the art was done by Braithwaite, who's doing the future parts of the event, so we might get a sneak peek into Divinity ll. I'm assuming by the time we get to Imperium #7, Abram will have decided, exactly what he wants to do moving forward, Harada trying to recruit a God, should be interesting.

Overall, I thought it was a pretty amazing story, a few kinks here and there, but, a job well done by the whole creative team, now I have a new favorite Valiant character, mission accomplished

[dornwolf]

I liked it, even though it played out similar to the Unity/Malgam situation, it was more of a character piece, the moments with his family that never was, were heartbreaking. He was never really in the fight, his mind was elsewhere, and still is, his imprisonment is more of a refuge for him, he can leave whenever he wants, but at the moment, he's more concerned with bonding with his daughter, (he let Eva go, but brought back a younger Anya) making up for lost time. Another interesting subplot, David Camp and The Traverlers, their movement, spreading the Gospel of Divinity, Abram has a cult following.

At first I thought continuity, lined up well with Unity, but looking back, the package in #17, was Malgam from #18. Divinity will be making a brief appearance in BOD #1, the art was done by Braithwaite, who's doing the future parts of the event, so we might get a sneak peek into Divinity ll. I'm assuming by the time we get to Imperium #7, Abram will have decided, exactly what he wants to do moving forward, Harada trying to recruit a God, should be interesting.

Overall, I thought it was a pretty amazing story, a few kinks here and there, but, a job well done by the whole creative team, now I have a new favorite Valiant character, mission accomplished

Interaction with Harada will be interesting since we really don't know where Abram stands. He was simply making life better for those around him and trying to return home. Question remains how will he react to a guy who feels war is the quickest way to peace.

[agent_graves]

I liked it, even though it played out similar to the Unity/Malgam situation, it was more of a character piece, the moments with his family that never was, were heartbreaking. He was never really in the fight, his mind was elsewhere, and still is, his imprisonment is more of a refuge for him, he can leave whenever he wants, but at the moment, he's more concerned with bonding with his daughter, (he let Eva go, but brought back a younger Anya) making up for lost time. Another interesting subplot, David Camp and The Traverlers, their movement, spreading the Gospel of Divinity, Abram has a cult following.

At first I thought continuity, lined up well with Unity, but looking back, the package in #17, was Malgam from #18. Divinity will be making a brief appearance in BOD #1, the art was done by Braithwaite, who's doing the future parts of the event, so we might get a sneak peek into Divinity ll. I'm assuming by the time we get to Imperium #7, Abram will have decided, exactly what he wants to do moving forward, Harada trying to recruit a God, should be interesting.

Overall, I thought it was a pretty amazing story, a few kinks here and there, but, a job well done by the whole creative team, now I have a new favorite Valiant character, mission accomplished

Interaction with Harada will be interesting since we really don't know where Abram stands. He was simply making life better for those around him and trying to return home. Question remains how will he react to a guy who feels war is the quickest way to peace.

I'm definitely looking forward to it, while also hoping that Divinity ll, drops in December, and not the assumed, January/February, that BC reported...

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/05/27/ ... vinity-ii/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CongoBill]

Yeah, I was a little let down by the ending, mainly because I expected to have a clearer picture of this character's role in the Valiant universe going forward. But I have to remember that issue four was written (and probably drawn) well before VEI had any knowledge this mini-series was going to be a hit.

The story itself was really quite sad, and while I don't agree with Unity's tactics, I can certainly understand it when you look at some of the crap that's rained down on the Earth in the recent VEI past (the Vine, Armor Hunters, etc.). Then again, given that Abram can probably get out of that containment pod whenever he feels like it (and I assume Unity realizes that possibility), I don't understand why they wouldn't try to communicate more with him before attacking. Or maybe they did and I'm just not remembering? I will re-read the series again in one sitting to see what I'm not remembering. Seems to me that Unity really needs a psiot with mind-reading/control abilities (ala Harada or Peter Stanchek) on their team. Who else in the Valiant universe could have probed Abram's mind and figure out what he's up to?

I am definitely looking forward to see how Harada interacts with Abram in the upcoming issue of Imperium, although it seems like that may just be a one and done type of deal. There is still so much they can do with this character and Divinity II seems so far off. We still don't know exactly what all his powers are or how exactly he got them, and what he wants to do now that he's returned to earth and can't retrieve his family as he had hoped. Hopefully we'll get some bits and pieces before Divinity II, because VEI needs to keep the momentum going with this character. If I was VEI I'd fast-track a Divinity vs. Bloodshot mini-series ASAP!!!! Or not.

[jmatt]

Questions.

So, am I correct in assuming that he's not actually seeing the ghosts of Eva and Anya, but some kind of digital recording that Livewire is casting? "Digital recordings of his wife and daughter are working!... My projections are working! He's lost in his own head!"

Does Livewire now have the ability to project images into the mind of others? That's new, no?

And if they weren't real, who is he talking to in his prison? The projection? Or has he actually found a way to reach back through time and talk to the spirit of Anya? "You were there. You brought us back."

Did David Camp die from his fall and was he resurrected by Divinity? Can we assume these other acolytes are similar?

I'm not sure how I feel about the issue. My gut reaction is that it was okay, and indeed sad for Divinity... but the projection thing muddies the melancholy because he didn't actually bend time and see his loved ones.

[pixierosa]

As I see it, there really are only two main choice for dealing with bad guys or entities too dangerous to be on the loose: they either have to be contained somehow or eliminated, which is a nice way to say "murdered". What is eerily similar between Divinity and Malgam is that both are isolated by Unity but both also have the means to bust out at any time. They are choosing to remain where they are - Divinity, lost in his thoughts and interactions with his daughter, and Malgam, lost in reflections and remembrances of better times.

As for Harada, I think he his idea of utopia with appeal to Divinity - after all, that's what he wanted to build. A place of equality. Harada need only approach him without malice - Divinity may work with Harada without Harada resorting to measures of compulsion and control like he has over Sunlight on Snow and Lord Vine 99.

[hkupo]

As I see it, there really are only two main choice for dealing with bad guys or entities too dangerous to be on the loose: they either have to be contained somehow or eliminated, which is a nice way to say "murdered". What is eerily similar between Divinity and Malgam is that both are isolated by Unity but both also have the means to bust out at any time. They are choosing to remain where they are - Divinity, lost in his thoughts and interactions with his daughter, and Malgam, lost in reflections and remembrances of better times.

As for Harada, I think he his idea of utopia with appeal to Divinity - after all, that's what he wanted to build. A place of equality. Harada need only approach him without malice - Divinity may work with Harada without Harada resorting to measures of compulsion and control like he has over Sunlight on Snow and Lord Vine 99.

Divinity seemed very much the pacifist, how long do you think a union between Harada and Abram could last?

[CongoBill]

Questions.

So, am I correct in assuming that he's not actually seeing the ghosts of Eva and Anya, but some kind of digital recording that Livewire is casting? "Digital recordings of his wife and daughter are working!... My projections are working! He's lost in his own head!"

Does Livewire now have the ability to project images into the mind of others? That's new, no?

And if they weren't real, who is he talking to in his prison? The projection? Or has he actually found a way to reach back through time and talk to the spirit of Anya? "You were there. You brought us back."

Did David Camp die from his fall and was he resurrected by Divinity? Can we assume these other acolytes are similar?

I'm not sure how I feel about the issue. My gut reaction is that it was okay, and indeed sad for Divinity... but the projection thing muddies the melancholy because he didn't actually bend time and see his loved ones.

That's a good point about Abram's family. I didn't even think about that when I finished the issue, but on a second reading I am thinking that Livewire was referring to the containment probe that she was projecting, and telling her teammates that Abram/Divinity was distracted or lost in his own head and so it was their best chance to trap him. But it's not totally clear. That would be really sad if Abram is sitting in that containment pod underground interacting with fake projections that Unity is sending to him. I have to think he is interacting with whatever he is creating in his head, whether that is an illusion or he actually can communicate with other planes of existence. Since he obviously did not know the fate of his family at the beginning of the issue, the answer has got to be that he's communicating with fake Unity projections or with his actual family. I hope for his sake it's the latter.

[agent_graves]

Questions.

So, am I correct in assuming that he's not actually seeing the ghosts of Eva and Anya, but some kind of digital recording that Livewire is casting? "Digital recordings of his wife and daughter are working!... My projections are working! He's lost in his own head!"

Does Livewire now have the ability to project images into the mind of others? That's new, no?

And if they weren't real, who is he talking to in his prison? The projection? Or has he actually found a way to reach back through time and talk to the spirit of Anya? "You were there. You brought us back."

Did David Camp die from his fall and was he resurrected by Divinity? Can we assume these other acolytes are similar?

I'm not sure how I feel about the issue. My gut reaction is that it was okay, and indeed sad for Divinity... but the projection thing muddies the melancholy because he didn't actually bend time and see his loved ones.

I was wondering the same thing, but during the confrontation with Unity, he says, that was then, this is now. So, maybe they (MI-6) was recording from afar, investigating what Divinity was up to in the Outback, and figured they could use that against him, and it actually worked, took him off his game, and they was able to get him inside the pod. Eh, idk, a few more re-reads, might make it a little clearer, it seemed like the younger Anya was actually back at the end, Abram ask her if she liked being back, all I know is, 11 months, is way to long a wait, for the next mini, I'm kind of disappointed by that.

Looking forward to Imperium #7 tho, more so now, to see how VEI handles this, continuity wise..

[Brapbrap]

Questions.

So, am I correct in assuming that he's not actually seeing the ghosts of Eva and Anya, but some kind of digital recording that Livewire is casting? "Digital recordings of his wife and daughter are working!... My projections are working! He's lost in his own head!"

Does Livewire now have the ability to project images into the mind of others? That's new, no?

And if they weren't real, who is he talking to in his prison? The projection? Or has he actually found a way to reach back through time and talk to the spirit of Anya? "You were there. You brought us back."

The way I read it Abram DID bring his family back, he says "The first thing I did when I came back was this:" which says to me that the family part takes place before Unity goes to fight him. His wife and daughter told him it was too late and he let them die again since they wanted to ("Don't you see? It's too late...")


In Unity #18 Malgams little pod could make holograms so it is possible that the pod for Divinity is meant to be the same thing or at least similar technology, when it projects the picture of eva it causes him to do his weird page turning thing back to when he tried to resurrect Eva. It seems like while he does this he just stands still not doing anything in the present so Unity is able to seal him in.

At the end he remakes a little bit of his island thing within the pod and resurrects his daughter, although again she can never stay for long ("I'm getting tired. Is it okay if I leave now?") however it doesn't seem like he still resurrects his wife, either because he can't or because she doesn't like it.

[dornwolf]

Questions.

So, am I correct in assuming that he's not actually seeing the ghosts of Eva and Anya, but some kind of digital recording that Livewire is casting? "Digital recordings of his wife and daughter are working!... My projections are working! He's lost in his own head!"

Does Livewire now have the ability to project images into the mind of others? That's new, no?

And if they weren't real, who is he talking to in his prison? The projection? Or has he actually found a way to reach back through time and talk to the spirit of Anya? "You were there. You brought us back."

The way I read it Abram DID bring his family back, he says "The first thing I did when I came back was this:" which says to me that the family part takes place before Unity goes to fight him. His wife and daughter told him it was too late and he let them die again since they wanted to ("Don't you see? It's too late...")


In Unity #18 Malgams little pod could make holograms so it is possible that the pod for Divinity is meant to be the same thing or at least similar technology, when it projects the picture of eva it causes him to do his weird page turning thing back to when he tried to resurrect Eva. It seems like while he does this he just stands still not doing anything in the present so Unity is able to seal him in.

At the end he remakes a little bit of his island thing within the pod and resurrects his daughter, although again she can never stay for long ("I'm getting tired. Is it okay if I leave now?") however it doesn't seem like he still resurrects his wife, either because he can't or because she doesn't like it.

Anyone else starting to notice that Kindt developing a bit of a crutch all of a sudden in his writing..

[BugsySig]

Here's how I read it, having re read the first three issues prior to reading #4:

Abram returns and immediately attempts to bring his wife and daughter to him, but as we learn they are dead and the wife is not happy to be brought back.

Having been unable to give himself what he wanted, Abram attempts to give everyone else what they want...no, what they "need."

When Abram "travels" to the past, this is done in his head only. He can warp reality, but is not capable of time travel. If he was, why not just travel back to the 1960s? Because he can't.

In this issue, Livewire projects images of Abram's wife and daughter via technology (unspecified, but I can assume given recent issues of Unity she has this capability). These images distract Abram and allow Unity to imprison him. It also acts as an entry point to the flashback of Abram's first act upon his return to Earth.

At the end, Abram is contained, but is now bringing only his daughter back. Her getting tired is likely a result of Abram pulling her spirit to Earth via Deadside. While it is possible that this is also a projection being run by MI6 to keep Abram docile and contained, I believe Abram would be able to tell the difference unless he has suffered a complete psychotic break.

I really like the idea of the Travelers as followers of Divinity and the impetus for his release and attempts to equalize humanity. This is a similar goal to Harada, so his inclusion in Imperium makes a lot of sense...can't wait to see how Dysart handles the character.

[greg]

It seems possible that each of the travelers (worshipers) may have experienced years (or a lifetime) of their wishes fulfilled, even though it was just minutes (or seconds) of our time.

It would explain why the travelers are so "worshipful". They've experienced a lifetime of "his divinity", even if it was only minutes of actual time.
There might be some who would "worship" very quickly, but it seems more likely that many of the travelers have already spent "years" with him... in their minds.

[jmatt]

... I am thinking that Livewire was referring to the containment probe that she was projecting,

If you take a look at that panel where she's talking about the projection, you can literally see the faces of his family 'streaming' toward him from her hands. So, she's not projecting the containment pod.

That means he was duped. He was never speaking to or seeing the souls of his family.

The way I read it Abram DID bring his family back, he says "The first thing I did when I came back was this:"

Read the whole quote: "The first thing I did was this:" ... "I tried to fix... everything." The "this" is fix everything, not see his family. The first thing we readers saw him do was save David Camp.

Abram returns and immediately attempts to bring his wife and daughter to him, but as we learn they are dead and the wife is not happy to be brought back.

Gotta disagree. If that's true, what is Livewire's projection thing all about? She can't possibly be projecting more images of his encounter with his family.

It seems possible that each of the travelers (worshipers) may have experienced years (or a lifetime) of their wishes fulfilled, even though it was just minutes (or seconds) of our time.

It would explain why the travelers are so "worshipful". They've experienced a lifetime of "his divinity", even if it was only minutes of actual time.

There might be some who would "worship" very quickly, but it seems more likely that many of the travelers have already spent "years" with him... in their minds.

I like that idea.

[Brapbrap]

Read the whole quote: "The first thing I did was this:" ... "I tried to fix... everything." The "this" is fix everything, not see his family. The first thing we readers saw him do was save David Camp.

nope go and read the last few pages of Divinity #3, we see his shuttle land from space in to the desert and then he flies across some sea to a forest where he meets eva and his daughter. The story isn't chronological, so although saving David Camp is the first thing we read it is NOT the first thing to happen in the story.

divinity is not chronological, the stuff with eva happens before david camp. When he is getting sealed in the pod he revisits that moment as he has revisited many other moments in his life

When Abram "travels" to the past, this is done in his head only. He can warp reality, but is not capable of time travel. If he was, why not just travel back to the 1960s? Because he can't.

his time travel powers work like you reading a comic book, except in his case the comic book is his life so he can't travel back to any scene that doens't involve abram.


him trying to visit Eva in the 70s or 80s is like trying to turn to a page that isn't in the book.

[BugsySig]

So you're saying he can only travel to times/places in his own history...fair enough. I can see that.

[CongoBill]

So you're saying he can only travel to times/places in his own history...fair enough. I can see that.

But that doesn't really add up. He's not time traveling when he meets his family. He'd never met his daughter or seen his wife as an older woman. So I really don't think he's a time traveler. At most it seems he can recreate moments from his past, although I'm thinking most of what we saw in this mini-series, other than the projections of his family, were just his memories. There is a scene in issue #1 where there is a ghostly image of him sitting in his apartment watching himself and his wife before his trip. Did he actually travel back to that time or is that just his memory? I think it's the latter. And, either way, it doesn't explain whether his wife and daughter that he encounters in present time are real spirits, his own hallucinations, or Livewire's "projections." I am having a harder time believing Livewire was creating the images of his wife and family he interacted with since it looks like contacting them (or recreating them) is one of the first things Abram did when he arrived back on Earth. Plus the logistics and tech required for Unity to create such a thing are pretty outlandish even for the VEI universe.

After re-reading all four issues my feeling is the mini-series is still excellent in many ways but it's also very unclear as to what exactly happened to Abram, both on his mission and after he returned to Earth, what his powers are (I'm assuming we've only seen a glimpse of this), and whether Abram is even sane at this point.

So what do we know? Abram seems to be benevolent, although who knows how long that will hold up being locked in a tiny pod underground. He can create life (flora and fauna) and transform life (he did change a couple of soldiers into animals because that is "what they wanted"), and can even create little worlds (no evidence he can create a whole planet at this point). He can get in your head and imprison you in a sort of timeless alternate reality -- that is what he did to Unity before they figured out how to block his mind control. He can heal or bring people back from the dead (David Camp). He can fly or levitate, I assume, although since it took him 27 years (or whatever it was) to get back to Earth he's not able to zip around the universe like Aric can. And maybe he can communicate with other planes of existence (although we don't know that for sure).

I really wish Matt Kindt would drop by here and explain some of this stuff! At least providing clarity on the "projections" would be nice since I don't know how being vague on that point really adds to the story. All the other unanswered questions, as fodder for future stories, I can understand. But not whether his wife and daughter were real or created by Unity. That should have been clearer, IMO.

[jmatt]

I really wish Matt Kindt would drop by here and explain some of this stuff! At least providing clarity on the "projections" would be nice since I don't know how being vague on that point really adds to the story. All the other unanswered questions, as fodder for future stories, I can understand. But not whether his wife and daughter were real or created by Unity. That should have been clearer, IMO.

QFT. It's too ambiguous. As a writer, I would want the visions he sees of his family to be real since that's the source of the melancholy for his tale. But it's clear that we're also being told that Livewire is projecting these images.

She calls them "digital recordings". Were they somehow able to record his actual encounter with his family and just keep cycling those images back to him? I guess a reread is in order.

[BugsySig]

I really wish Matt Kindt would drop by here and explain some of this stuff! At least providing clarity on the "projections" would be nice since I don't know how being vague on that point really adds to the story. All the other unanswered questions, as fodder for future stories, I can understand. But not whether his wife and daughter were real or created by Unity. That should have been clearer, IMO.

QFT. It's too ambiguous. As a writer, I would want the visions he sees of his family to be real since that's the source of the melancholy for his tale. But it's clear that we're also being told that Livewire is projecting these images.

She calls them "digital recordings". Were they somehow able to record his actual encounter with his family and just keep cycling those images back to him? I guess a reread is in order.

Nah. I think they were just pictures of them alive and dead. You can see them in one of the large panels. Those images then made Abram remember his failed attempt to reunite with his family and served as the distraction Unity needed to contain him.

[Brapbrap]

i think it would be really interesting to read everything in chronological order, i might try and figure out the order within the next few days.

[CongoBill]

I really wish Matt Kindt would drop by here and explain some of this stuff! At least providing clarity on the "projections" would be nice since I don't know how being vague on that point really adds to the story. All the other unanswered questions, as fodder for future stories, I can understand. But not whether his wife and daughter were real or created by Unity. That should have been clearer, IMO.

QFT. It's too ambiguous. As a writer, I would want the visions he sees of his family to be real since that's the source of the melancholy for his tale. But it's clear that we're also being told that Livewire is projecting these images.

She calls them "digital recordings". Were they somehow able to record his actual encounter with his family and just keep cycling those images back to him? I guess a reread is in order.

I really don't think it's clear at all that Livewire is projecting the images. What am I missing? And when you think about it, how could Abram be able to do all the stuff he does in these issues and then only think he's generating images of his family while being fooled by digital projections from Unity? That just doesn't add up to me. Sure, maybe if Unity had a Harada-like psiot who could get into Abram's head and make him believe he's seeing what they want him to see I could buy it, but being fooled by a digital recording? Nah, that can't be what Kindt intended. Could it?

[depluto]

I found the story a little hard to follow one month at a time. I guess I need to read them all at once. But you guys are right, it seemed like a soft ending.

But on the art side, there were some clean, simple and powerful images in this issue. Great stuff!

[jmatt]

I really don't think it's clear at all that Livewire is projecting the images. What am I missing?

See the images of Eve and Anya flowing from her hands and surrounding Divinity?


image ru