Consistency. Stability.

[jmatt]

This is gonna read like a minor rant. Dino, Warren, et al -- love you and the line. I love it all so much, I'm going to say the following with all due respect and in the spirit (hopefully) of making Valiant a better comic line.

I think a lot of the posts I'm reading in the Valiant #4 thread sum up something I've been saying for awhile: There's no Grand Roadmap or Character Bible.

When you let the writers do whatever they want, the result is an overall sense that things are just blowing around depending on what writer has Dino and Warren's ear.

EW has been a mess since inception, he's something different every time we see him. His FVL incarnation, his Houses incarnation, the 4001 patient and wise father, his kids came and went without further study, he wants to be the Fist and Steel, he doesn't want to be the Fist and Steel, etc.

The concept of Geomancer is no better. There's the seemingly normal human of Buck McHenry, there's a version that can transform into a crow, there's Kay who starts off normal and then can later fly, talk to the Earth as some kind of simian representation, and generate hand blasts of some sort, there's the new ones in Rai and the one from the box...

The IE. Same deal. How could they spend four issues on this great character and not lay out what it actually is and how it relates to the Earth and geomancers, in specific?

Bloodshot? He's a man? He's not a man? Hints about Silk creating nanites, he's black, he's a soldier from Viet Nam, he's not black, he can change his appearance but doesn't do so when it would be advantageous, he's Ray, etc.

Shadowman? Nuff said.

Hell, we can't even all agree on how and which Ani Padda brothers are immortal and why.

You will notice that when characters stay with one writer, like X-O and AA and Harby, things stay consistent from one arc to the next.

This universe needs a strong hand at the helm, one that will lay out the ground rules to the writers and insist that concepts not just come and go willy-nilly. Defined power sets that stay defined and are used consistently. Origins that are well explained and not nebulous. Lineages that are definitive and adhered to (Silk, Unit-Y, the Houses, Bloodshot origin, etc).

Love the company and the people. But it's time to stop flinging stuff at the wall to see what will stick.

[Tim]

Part of what made the Pre-Unity VH1 so great was the fact that it was the vision of a very small group of people. Shooter, Layton and BWS were calling the shots and everybody knew it. When that dynamic was changed the entire line suffered. I see Venditti, Dysart and Van Lente the same as I see the original Valiant trio. I think they are probably fine writers, but adding Kindt and Lemire to the mix seems like a mistake. Especially since they've basically both taken turns *SQUEE* on Van Lente's work.

The unified direction that I felt we had up until maybe midway through Unity is slipping away.

[bygranddesign]

Good post - I agree with much of what your saying.

I still love the product obviously - But I definitely feel like there needs to be a strong voice running the show keeping all ducks in a row - Making sure that continuity matters.

I think the best idea wins philosophy can be a double edged sword

Eternal Warrior is proof of this - i think FVL, Pak, Milligan and Kindt all have good ideas for the character but much of the character tone and continuity doesn't mesh.

FVL introduces Eternal Warrior as a dedicated fighter for the Earth who uses MODERN military weapons ... A bit of bad *SQUEE* although I think FVL does a great job of bringing out his softer side by the end of the arc and really rounded out the character.

Then Pak introduces a vastly different character in terms of tone in his EW book. Pak paints a picture of someone who left the fight and has been in isolation since American colonial times. A much more somber portrayal. I don't mind the introduction of the houses and the children - it adds some rich history .. (Although I find it ridiculous that his children are the swords of his rival houses yet he is unaware of this fact for thousands of years). But the drastic tonal change for the character doesn't mesh. It's supossed to be a few years before the A&A arc but there still has been no explanation as to how he went from destroying the Earth Goddeses at the end of the 1st arc ..and then becoming super dedicated to the Earth in the A&A arc.

Kindt has done some good things with the character - but EW comes off as 2nd tier and incompetent compared to Ninjak especially. He uses a costume and weapon that was introduced in the Pak series as his look and weapon during ancient Mesopotamia! Where is the bad *SQUEE* who shoots guns from the FVL introduction?

The Geomancer and The Earth take a complete back seat for EW in Unity. You would think it would shade his thinking when it comes to missions ..? but there is no indication that the Geomancer or the Earth (that he is the fighter and protecter of) matter while in Unity.

Where was Kay The Geomancer when Armor Hunters was happening? Why wasn't that important character part of a story where the Earth was being invaded?

EW seems to be so important to the universe .. Yet the character is all over the place. Someone needs to take control of the character - take him away from unity - and just develop this relationship between EW and this new Geomancer. Give him a more modern look! And give us an origin story already!

And yeah there are some other issues with other character ... But EW is the one that needs the most work to reconcile all these continuity and character issues.

[blujay]

All legitimate points, although I think the next EW series will have a geomancer co-star.

And I feel like most of these inconsistencies will probably be addressed at some point. These aren't story breaking concerns, I feel thats vei's approach to EW: if its a good story let them tell it, besides hes got a long life, youre not getting the full picture

[hunter_peterson]

All legitimate points, although I think the next EW series will have a geomancer co-star.

And I feel like most of these inconsistencies will probably be addressed at some point. These aren't story breaking concerns, I feel thats vei's approach to EW: if its a good story let them tell it, besides hes got a long life, youre not getting the full picture

You're right, we only see the tiniest fractions of his life, even if we spent years with the character in one era. It gives an interesting amount of wiggle room.

I personally think that the continuity issues with Gilad aren't too bad- we just need a recap from his perspective and it'll seem more cohesive. "I was a bit depressed for a while, but got back in the game when some stuff went down with my girl, then the Geomancer got kidnapped and I spent years trying to make up for not doing my job right. Then I joined Unity." It could be done in a page or two.

I also think we need an arc of Unity dedicated to his mythology and threats- the Valiant was a start, but the Houses need to join the VU proper. It'd address both his less vital-seeming role in Unity and the other inconsistencies in his timeline. I really think that would be important for firming up the role of the character, and the introduction of the new Geomancer might give Kindt the opportunity to straighten things out. Seeing him take center stage on the chief world-building book of the line would be great!

[erwinrafael]

For once, I would like them to depict EW as a competent tactician. At the rate he's going, he would not have any cred to talk down Aric on his bullheadedness.

[geocarr]

For once, I would like them to depict EW as a competent tactician.

+1

[String]

FVL introduces Eternal Warrior as a dedicated fighter for the Earth who uses MODERN military weapons ... A bit of bad *SQUEE* although I think FVL does a great job of bringing out his softer side by the end of the arc and really rounded out the character.

With Gilad making appearances in Ivar's book, I'm interested in seeing how FVL will continue to handle his characterization and if it will contrast with Kindt's characterization of him. There needs to be some base form for these writers to follow for the character to make his appearances more consistent.

Then Pak introduces a vastly different character in terms of tone in his EW book. Pak paints a picture of someone who left the fight and has been in isolation since American colonial times. A much more somber portrayal. I don't mind the introduction of the houses and the children - it adds some rich history .. (Although I find it ridiculous that his children are the swords of his rival houses yet he is unaware of this fact for thousands of years). But the drastic tonal change for the character doesn't mesh. It's supossed to be a few years before the A&A arc but there still has been no explanation as to how he went from destroying the Earth Goddeses at the end of the 1st arc ..and then becoming super dedicated to the Earth in the A&A arc.

Again, I will say that I enjoyed Pak's limited run on EW, inconsistencies aside. The introduction of the Houses, the concept of the Swords, it gave Gilad a milieu of his own, something to better set him apart within the VEI universe. Armstrong contends with ancient history and the Sect, Ivar contends with the future and all of time while this set-up gave Gilad the opportunity to contend with the more mystical/supernatural side of the universe. But sadly, it appears all of that may have been quietly swept under the rug for now which is a shame.

As for his children, a wonderful idea. But then again it goes back to establishing some base form for writers to follow. Are there any limitations on him having kids? Can they all become immortal like him? Who are their mothers? So much potential here.

Kindt has done some good things with the character - but EW comes off as 2nd tier and incompetent compared to Ninjak especially. He uses a costume and weapon that was introduced in the Pak series as his look and weapon during ancient Mesopotamia! Where is the bad *SQUEE* who shoots guns from the FVL introduction?

Kindt has done very well in forming the friendship/partnership between Ninjak and Gilad but yes, Ninjak is putting Gilad to shame in the tactical dept. For a bit there, I did like how Kindt was showing Gilad's historical perspective on either Ninjak's actions or the situation they faced, which makes sense but Gilad comes off as being more bull-headed than Ninjak when, given his obvious life-span and experience, Gilad should be a tactician on par with Steve Rogers by now.

And yes, PLEASE lose the axe. Unless this weapon is similar to Thor's axe or otherwise mystical in nature, it makes little sense for him use in today's modern warfare. Plus, Gilad's abilities need to be better defined. I still can't get over the image from the AH crossover of Gilad leaping from Ninjak's exploding jet, crashing through a skyscraper and getting up right afterwards. Sorry, Kindt, but immortality does not mean invulnerability!

The Geomancer and The Earth take a complete back seat for EW in Unity. You would think it would shade his thinking when it comes to missions ..? but there is no indication that the Geomancer or the Earth (that he is the fighter and protecter of) matter while in Unity.

Where was Kay The Geomancer when Armor Hunters was happening? Why wasn't that important character part of a story where the Earth was being invaded?

I've always thought that Geomancer's agenda should influence Gilad's participation in Unity's missions. Unless this is a downtime period similar to what was shown in Milligan's EW mini and Gilad is just hanging out. Better still, what if a Unity mission comes into conflict with the Geomancer's agenda? Would Gilad face off against his teammates in order to fulfill the Geomancer's goal(s)?

Again, it's unclear, it's unstated, it's used (apparently) whenever the writer feels like it. Granted, one could make the argument that Gilad served with Unity this whole time just so he could be in the right position to open the Box and thus save the future Geomancer but there was no hint of that. And an excellent question concerning Kay.

[jmatt]

I think the best idea wins philosophy can be a double edged sword

No doubt about it. And so can listening to the fan base. Pak's 'Houses' theme was received with luke-warmth by some of us, so they took it in another direction -- it didn't even make it through the rest of his arcs. By the time we reached the 4001 conclusion arc, all talk of Mitu disappeared.

This must be frustrating for Dino and Warren, who are just trying to give us what we want "but not what we expect", as Dino is fond of saying.

Where was Kay The Geomancer when Armor Hunters was happening? Why wasn't that important character part of a story where the Earth was being invaded?

Agreed. In early VH1, Geoff was an integral part of everything that transpired. If he is to be the Fist and Steel protecting the Earth, then everything the EW does should be framed from that perspective. What could be more important than playing that role.

Even within Unity, Kay could have been the Yoko Ono of the group, the one that Gilad heeled to, to the consternation of the other members. It would have been an interesting dynamic. "My boss lays beneath our feet and Kay is her spokesman. I go where she says." I rather like the idea of Gilad being the faithful attack dog kept on her leash. Ya don't dare mess with Kay!

I would have loved to have seen a few panels of Kay talking to the Australopithicene representation of Earth during AH. I think that was a rather unique angle and was disappointed we never saw it again.

[bygranddesign]

In early VH1, Geoff was an integral part of everything that transpired. If he is to be the Fist and Steel protecting the Earth, then everything the EW does should be framed from that perspective. What could be more important than playing that role.

Even within Unity, Kay could have been the Yoko Ono of the group, the one that Gilad heeled to, to the consternation of the other members. It would have been an interesting dynamic. "My boss lays beneath our feet and Kay is her spokesman. I go where she says." I rather like the idea of Gilad being the faithful attack dog kept on her leash. Ya don't dare mess with Kay!

I would have loved to have seen a few panels of Kay talking to the Australopithicene representation of Earth during AH. I think that was a rather unique angle and was disappointed we never saw it again.

+1

I've always thought that Geomancer's agenda should influence Gilad's participation in Unity's missions. Unless this is a downtime period similar to what was shown in Milligan's EW mini and Gilad is just hanging out. Better still, what if a Unity mission comes into conflict with the Geomancer's agenda? Would Gilad face off against his teammates in order to fulfill the Geomancer's goal(s)?

+1

Yep, agree

I think there were a lot of missed opportunities with Kay

[dino]

Lol. These aren't inconsistencies, they're stories we haven't told yet. You guys are going to have your minds blown by what's coming up. In fact, Book of Death answers one of the questions you posed here. You'll just have to wait I'm afraid.

[dornwolf]

I'm going to point out I don't think the crow geomancer was a person transformed into a crow, I think it's a crow that is the geomancer. There's never been a rule that the geomancer had to be human.

[erwinrafael]

Lol. These aren't inconsistencies, they're stories we haven't told yet. You guys are going to have your minds blown by what's coming up. In fact, Book of Death answers one of the questions you posed here. You'll just have to wait I'm afraid.

I'll just believe it when I see it, Dino. For now, I am not touching anything with Kindt attached to it as all the problems cropped up when he came onboard. Sorry.

[hunter_peterson]

Lol. These aren't inconsistencies, they're stories we haven't told yet. You guys are going to have your minds blown by what's coming up. In fact, Book of Death answers one of the questions you posed here. You'll just have to wait I'm afraid.

You say that like our minds aren't blown all the time! Keep up the good work!

...and maybe throw us some 4001 minis?

I'm going to point out I don't think the crow geomancer was a person transformed into a crow, I think it's a crow that is the geomancer. There's never been a rule that the geomancer had to be human.

I assumed it was a Geomancer speaking through a crow, not literally a super intelligent crow wizard. Like how Odin can speak through his crows, sometimes. A glorified telephone.

[Tim]

I'm going to point out I don't think the crow geomancer was a person transformed into a crow, I think it's a crow that is the geomancer. There's never been a rule that the geomancer had to be human.

I think that's a great point. The voice of the Earth having to be a human every time seems pretty species-ist and not how the Earth would operate at all.

[depluto]

Like how Odin can speak through his crows, sometimes. A glorified telephone.

If I could do that I would totally ditch my cell phone.

[depluto]

Lol. These aren't inconsistencies, they're stories we haven't told yet. You guys are going to have your minds blown by what's coming up. In fact, Book of Death answers one of the questions you posed here. You'll just have to wait I'm afraid.

I believe in what you guys are doing. There are hits and misses but this has been a wonderful last few years, so thank you for that.

[bygranddesign]

Lol. These aren't inconsistencies, they're stories we haven't told yet. You guys are going to have your minds blown by what's coming up. In fact, Book of Death answers one of the questions you posed here. You'll just have to wait I'm afraid.

I definitely try to take into account that you only have so many stories to tell every month ... and hard choices need to be made about which stories have to be put off for another time.

But I do feel like Kay deserved her moment to shine in her own book - a Geomancer one shot or mini-series in which you see her grow into the role ...as we learn along with her everything that goes into being a Geomancer. It could have developed her further (and made her eventual death more impactful) - and further develop the Geomancer mythology and their relationship to Earth and Gilad. The Geomancer was front and center important in VH1 ... But there seems to be less importance in VEI (but yes I could see that changing now with the Valiant and the new Geomancer and the introduction of the 4001 Geomancer in Rai. Is this new Geomancer in The a Valiant the same as the one just introduced in 4001 Rai - give me a wink if true

In regards to The Valiant - I really enjoyed it - but I feel like there was too much story left unsaid.

My theory is that the Immortal Enemy was a creation of the Earth/Earth Goddess to cull humanity.

Age of Darkness = good thing for the Earth. Humanity unchecked is Earth's biggest enemy. Gilad cheating a bit and sending back a new Geomancer from the future (and being released to this time period at the exact same moment of Kay's death - nicely done/smart storytelling Kindt/Lemire!)- might help in the short term but have negative consequences long term (as we see in 4001 where the Earth is pretty decimated)

As much as I think that is a cool theory - it still does leave me with a lot of open questions and potential inconsistencies.

Why (and how) does the world go into an age of darkness when a Geomancer is killed by the immortal Enemy?
I would assume that it only happens when I.E kills a Geomancer ? .. As we know Buck dies (accidently) in the 1st arc of A&A. (Side question - Buck lived for hundreds of years - do Geomancer age slowly? Or do different geomancers have different abilities like some can speak through animals. Some age slowly ..etc.)
Should we assume that there are no geomancers during this age of darkness?
Also Pak seemed to imply in his 4001 story arc that the reason why the Earth was a mess was because of the Gods were killed off (but maybe I read too much into that?)
If my theory were true - (and the earth goddess created I.E) how devastated would Kay be to realize that the "person" she works for (Earth) is the same person that creates the creature that kills Geomancers off every few thousand years...?

I think The Valiant was a really good mini - that will have long term consequences for the universe - Bloodshot obviously being one of the biggest characters impacted. I do wish some of these lingering questions about the origin of Immortal Enemey were answered. Hmmm.. How about The Valiant #0?

Dino, even though I have issues/questions here and there, I am loving the product ... And my mind is blown quite often when I read Valiant. Every writer on Valiant has blown my mind at some point - especially that Dysart fellow - you should get him on a 2nd book So thank you so much for what you and your company have brought to comics. Congrats on the DMG deal too. Can't wait to see Valiant in movies and TV! And looking forward to more info on The Book of Death! Sounds rad!

[String]

But I do feel like Kay deserved her moment to shine in her own book - a Geomancer one shot or mini-series in which you see her grow into the role ...as we learn along with her everything that goes into being a Geomancer. It could have developed her further (and made her eventual death more impactful) - and further develop the Geomancer mythology and their relationship to Earth and Gilad.

+ 1,000,000

Her death did hit hard, but had we seen more of her before this, seen her trials, errors, and triumphs in learning to be a strong Geomancer, her death would have been SO much more impactful.

But, if Dino says have faith, then I'll wait. Overall, I have not been disappointed with anything VEI has released so far.

[blujay]

Lol. These aren't inconsistencies, they're stories we haven't told yet. You guys are going to have your minds blown by what's coming up. In fact, Book of Death answers one of the questions you posed here. You'll just have to wait I'm afraid.

Can I get some sort of "told ya so" bragging rights?

[jmatt]

You guys are going to have your minds blown by what's coming up. In fact, Book of Death answers one of the questions you posed here. You'll just have to wait I'm afraid.

I'm looking forward to it.

I knew I could draw you from your cozy lair.

[lorddunlow]

You guys are going to have your minds blown by what's coming up. In fact, Book of Death answers one of the questions you posed here. You'll just have to wait I'm afraid.

I'm looking forward to it.

I knew I could draw you from you cozy lair.

Good work. I have some honest opinions I plan on expounding on here when I get a chance.

Love that Dino still lurks here.

[dornwolf]

I'm going to point out I don't think the crow geomancer was a person transformed into a crow, I think it's a crow that is the geomancer. There's never been a rule that the geomancer had to be human.

I assumed it was a Geomancer speaking through a crow, not literally a super intelligent crow wizard. Like how Odin can speak through his crows, sometimes. A glorified telephone.

Thats another idea I forgot to mention. The only reason I even point it out is that ever since that mini was even announced people constantly bring it up as a point of bad writing or whatever because they immediately assume it's a shape changing Geomancer or whatever.

[jmatt]

Thats another idea I forgot to mention. The only reason I even point it out is that ever since that mini was even announced people constantly bring it up as a point of bad writing or whatever because they immediately assume it's a shape changing Geomancer or whatever.

For me, I didn't consider bad writing as much as I was thrown by it since we had never seen it before. This is what I mean by consistency in the archetype.

I think it would be pretty cool if the Geomancer could summon the creatures of nature and have them do her bidding in a limited fashion (no, not ala Aquaman). Think of the scene in LOTR where Gandalf is trapped atop the Dark Tower, summons a nearby moth, whispers to it and it fetches the Eagles to rescue him. Great scene!

[jmatt]

Love that Dino still lurks here.

The last time we saw this was when Krylox was whining (instead of me) and Dino showed up and promised us something great.

What did we get? The Armor Hunters event!

That being said, I feel pretty self conscious about a post like my OP. It's meant as constructive criticism and I hope it's viewed in that light.