Harbinger #21 Discussion

[bygranddesign]

Wow, this was such a great read.

This is Dysart at his best. Some cool twists with some brilliant character building. This recaptured the brilliance of the renegades arc. There doesn't need to be a lot of action when Dysart is writing for it to be exciting and compelling storytelling.

I loved the interactions between all the characters. Every renegade character is flawed but it always seems like Flamingo gets knocked the worst, but I think she had a great character issue showing many layers of her personality. She is not so shallow. She understands her weaknesses and she genuinely cares about the team.

I loved the Faith and Torque getting together (bumping uglies scene) THIS IS ON LIKE KING KONG PLAYING PING PONG!

some really funny moments throughout.

Loved the @X character even more after this issue. Loved the twist that his sister died during the Harbinger Wars and that was the impetus for him hacking into PRS. Brilliant storytelling by Dysart.

Peter, Monica Jim, Kris - all were great in this issue as well.

Just so well written that I actually stopped three or four times to soak it in because I didn't want it to end.

overall 9/10

Can't wait for Bleeding Monk #0

[grendeljd]

D'oh! Simultaneous thread creation! Redundancy is imminent!

I'll re-post my comments here, my thread should be deleted

Really enjoyed this issue, it tops the 4 Valiant comics released to date this month for me. Some really great character moments, I thought. The depth of the writing continues to astound & impress me, as always.

Loved every little bit of Monica Jim here, I like that her motivations are not so innocent as we might expect of a young girl who has yet to expose the damage inflicted on her psyche through her experiences with PRS.

Good turnaround on the events we saw in the preview between Flamingo & Torque... and then there was Faith & Torque!!

Favourite line, by a mile; 'I don't think I like it when girls come to my room'

[bygranddesign]

Favourite line, by a mile; 'I don't think I like it when girls come to my room'

LOL .. yeah that was a great line!

[bygranddesign]

The ending felt like some foreshadowing with Monica Jim telling Peter that he is weak and she'll be safer without him

Once again Peter's odds of dying go up

Not that I think he will die because he is weak but because he will prove how strong he is by protecting the renegades and going head to head vs Harada.

[grendeljd]

The ending felt like some foreshadowing with Monica Jim telling Peter that he is weak and she'll be safer without him

Once again Peter's odds of dying go up

Not that I think he will die because he is weak but because he will prove how strong he is by protecting the renegades and going head to head vs Harada.

Yeah, lots of heavy foreshadowing here, in a way. Because we know a death is coming, I find myself almost wincing every time a character gets some really good moments in the book. Which was basically everyone in this issue, so anyone could still die according to my own sleep deprived logic!

[xodacia81]

What if it isn't a Renegade that dies, but Harada? Wouldn't that upset things? What if Peter than became the big bad? Or, the Bleeding Monk? (I posted a different theory a moment ago, in another thread)

[Phoenix8008]

What if it isn't a Renegade that dies, but Harada? Wouldn't that upset things? What if Peter than became the big bad? Or, the Bleeding Monk? (I posted a different theory a moment ago, in another thread)

That thought spurred a memory for me. -D.P.7! For those not as chronologically challanged as myself, that is Displaced Paranormals 7 - part of the Marvel "New Universe" line in the 80's. They were the Harbinger's of their time. Normal people with superpowers on the run from an organization led by a power hungry leader. What was neat was that after the first 12 issues, they had all been captured and ended up fighting the big bad guy and seemingly destroying him. They then took over the 'Clinic' and became the management! They had to run the company and try to help all the other Paranormals in the clinic! It could be really neat if something similar happened later in Harbinger with them taking over the HGC and trying to make it 'good'.

[KXXX]

I'll finally be able to sleep now that the question of whether or not Torque's projection could suffer from premature ejaculation has been answered.

10/10

[kevinbastos]

Rules for a horror movie:

1) No sex, any sex and you will die, Its like having a neon sign above your head screaming "KILL ME"


Torque's likelihood of death went up.

[SJS4]

Rules for a horror movie:

1) No sex, any sex and you will die, Its like having a neon sign above your head screaming "KILL ME"


Torque's likelihood of death went up.

I figured torque and faith are the only safe ones now that we saw the preview covers for armor hunters.

[jmatt]

Rules for a horror movie:

1) No sex, any sex and you will die, Its like having a neon sign above your head screaming "KILL ME"


Torque's likelihood of death went up.

That's my take. Faith is pregnant, Torque croaks and a future hero is born.

[pixierosa]

It was a good read. I really enjoyed learning the background on issues that I had questions about, such as where they were hiding out at, how they were getting their data, and so forth. Loved the old speakeasy idea. I especially appreciated hearing Pete confess how hard it is for him to scan people and assimilate that information. Monica was harsh, perhaps overly so, especially since she herself is the weak link when it comes to being a team player and keeping their whereabouts unknown.

Flamingo - well, she did show that recognizes some of her shortcomings but she's still the kind of person who would be a "frenemy". She said she knows Torque is interested in Faith, she herself claims to consider Faith a friend, but what does she do? Tries to screw Torque first, then offers up sloppy seconds. Yeahhhhhh. Nice girl.

Kris was in ball buster mode (loved that "he's classy that way" crack) but she's correct. Ax put them in a bad spot. Ax uncovered the truth about Vegas, but is he aware that the Renegades and the Gen Zero kids that he's going to help free are also inadvertently responsible for his sister's death? Will that affect his choices?

Faith was a bit surprising here - I never imagined her being quite that forward. As usual, she gets some great lines Also liked Torque's crack about girls coming to his room. No doubt

Things are revving up!

[nonplayer]

Seamsike Monica is a loose cannon she may be her own down fall.
This issue was absolutely great 10/10 I got my 4.00 worth. I was reading when I got to the center page ad was like wow only half way. Not a quick read didnt fly by like some issues. Really felt meaty and Im not refering to torq

[Captain Craig]

I was intrigued at several turns with this issue.

Ax and his deeper motivations for what he did. His personal ties to the events of Harbinger Wars make him a somewhat unpredictable element in their "secret lair".

Flamingo/Faith/Torque---For someone inexperienced Faith's boldness struck me as a tad unrealistic. Even in HS and some early college girls who had had sex were timid about taking it off that first time. Faith just rips her top right off and totally takes charge. Still, it's fiction so suspend reality. The touching moment was later when Torque's projection had disapated and we got to see the true Torque once again. It's been awhile since we've seen him.

Monica Jim is not happy about her surroundings and is clearly with The Renegades only as an ends to a mean. Like Ax I'm thinking she could be as much harm as good. What I'm thinking will happen is events will cause her to realize that her last statement isn't as right as she feels it is at this moment. 10 issues ago I'd have agreed with her but the group has matured a lot since then.


Side note: I'm ticked at Diamond, they shorted my LCS and I didn't get Eternal Warrior #6---ARGH, got wait till next week. I did notify my store to update my hold file with RAI, Dr.Mirage and all Armor Wars material. The store owner, chuckled at another employee and said "I almost took the liberty of doing that for you".

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

So, is @X a psiot? Or has that not been mentioned yet? And yes, someone else mentioned the fact if he knows that the Renegades were partially responsible for Vegas? Would that change his opinion of them?
And as far as Faith being too forward, she's already come to terms with death, and is happy with her life. She's taken the initiative in a number of situations, so I think this is just her character evolving. Can't be meek and timid while fighting for your life. She's coming out of her shell......And so it Torgue! ZING!!! Definitely like that twist from VH1, and happy for Faith gettin' some!
Soooo, Monica Jim can only create cartoon animals, even after seeing real ones now? Or, she just prefers that?
Overall, great issue, and I can't believe I'm the first one to mention, CLAYTON HENRY IS KILLIN IT!!!!! Go Clayton!

[Phoenix8008]

This issue sounds awesome and I can't wait to read it! Just read #20 last night. @X is cool so far. I don't think he's supposed to be a psiot, but he's really dang good with computers and it makes me wonder if maybe he's just not activated yet.

[lorddunlow]

Soooo, Monica Jim can only create cartoon animals, even after seeing real ones now? Or, she just prefers that?

I wondered the same thing. I sort of wonder if it's just an issue of artist style/interpretation an Dysart means for them to be more realistic.

[Captain Craig]

Yeah, cause her cartoon cat is what tipped off the Harada homeless spy. I real looking cat wouldn't have been worth reporting back on.

I'd like to see a story where an explanation is given. Then see her switch to real projections vs cartoon looking ones.

[apainter]

"You're weak... and I'll be safer without you."

Was anyone else reminded of Livewire's comment to Pete in issue 4? "You're an idiot who makes the worst of the opportunities he's given and we'll be better off with you gone."

Art

[pixierosa]

The touching moment was later when Torque's projection had disapated and we got to see the true Torque once again. It's been awhile since we've seen him.

My sentiment exactly. It also illustrates the level of trust he has in Faith, and likely, how he feels about her. His clothes wouldn't even disappear for Flamingo. He subconsciously still feels the need to have a barrier against her. Faith is special.

[BugsySig]

Once again Dysart is trying to mind *SQUEE* us. Every time a character had a scene focusing on them, I would think "damn...foreshadowing...they're a goner." I did that like 6 times. *SQUEE* you Dysart.

Glad to see MJ is still loyal to her team. I am really looking forward to seeing Gen Zero back in action soon.

Something struck me as off with @x. He has to know who was responsible for the Las Vegas incident, including the Renegades. This whole thing could be a set up for them as well. Let's not forget what VH1 Ax was like. I wouldn't expect a huge departure from Ax as third foil to Harada and Pete.

[bygranddesign]

Something struck me as off with @x. He has to know who was responsible for the Las Vegas incident, including the Renegades. This whole thing could be a set up for them as well. Let's not forget what VH1 Ax was like. I wouldn't expect a huge departure from Ax as third foil to Harada and Pete.

Yep i'm getting this feeling also.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is the one that kills a renegade.

This huge betrayal leads to him being the Lex Luther type villian of VEI - no super power but incredible smart and gifted with a sense of humanity (afterall its the death of his sister that leads him to this path)

[lorddunlow]

Once again Dysart is trying to mind *SQUEE* us. Every time a character had a scene focusing on them, I would think "damn...foreshadowing...they're a goner." I did that like 6 times. *SQUEE* you Dysart.

Yup. Always. I always think "*SQUEE* you Dysart". Always.


Harbinger GOOOOOOLD!

[xodacia81]

Once again Dysart is trying to mind *SQUEE* us. Every time a character had a scene focusing on them, I would think "damn...foreshadowing...they're a goner." I did that like 6 times. *SQUEE* you Dysart.

Yup. Always. I always think "*SQUEE* you Dysart". Always.


Harbinger GOOOOOOLD!

Long may Dysart reign! 5 years! 5 years! 5 years! (at least)

[Captain Craig]

Something struck me as off with @x. He has to know who was responsible for the Las Vegas incident, including the Renegades. This whole thing could be a set up for them as well. Let's not forget what VH1 Ax was like. I wouldn't expect a huge departure from Ax as third foil to Harada and Pete.

Yep i'm getting this feeling also.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is the one that kills a renegade.

This huge betrayal leads to him being the Lex Luther type villian of VEI - no super power but incredible smart and gifted with a sense of humanity (afterall its the death of his sister that leads him to this path)

Yep, same here. Hadn't figured in @x as the killer of a Renedgade but my earlier comment about him as the "unpredictable element in their lair" is that he's not to be trusted. Bad mojo coming off that guy.