Antonio631, and the future of the back issue market...

[greg]

As some of you know, and some have guessed, it has come to light that
Ebay seller "antonio631" is the new owner of the Acclaim archives...
that is, all comic books found by the bankruptcy trustees for Acclaim.

The books were sold privately as a single lot, not part of the earlier public auction,
quantity was estimated to be 25,000 books, no titles, no issue numbers,
just a single "bulk" of unknown books, sold in January by the trustees.

I believe that Antonio is working on making lists of the books,
and, of course, he is posting auction lots to Ebay.
He estimates that there are actually 15,000-20,000 books.

It is no coincidence that exactly 10 copies of Turok EB Games
and 10 copies of Shadowman Vol 3 #1 with price were auctioned.
They were unopened "distributor packs", which normally contain 10 copies
of a book.

If you're running the numbers in your head... then you know that 15,000
would be more than 10 copies of every book that Valiant and Acclaim printed,
so it's entirely possible that some books are in large quantity...
while other books may not be represented at all.

Remember that Acclaim purchased Voyager (Valiant) in mid-1994,
so they would have 'inherited' the stored books, and either company
could have changed their 'archival policies' at any point in time.
10 copies? 100 copies? 1 copy? I don't think anyone knows for sure.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

[mrwoogieman]

I happen to believe that the Acclaim comics will out-number the Valiants by about ten to one when all is said and done. I would be shocked if he has any pre-Unity books in any substantial quantities.

[myron]

this could be very good or very bad...won't know for awhile yet...

[magnusr]

Remember that Acclaim purchased Voyager (Valiant) in mid-1994, so they would have 'inherited' the stored books

Unfortunately most was thrown away when the first offices closed.

/Magnus

[dino]

I wonder what he paid. I'm just glad I don't have any VH2 books, looks like they are gonna tank.

[Unblessed]

VH1 > all other incarnations by Acclaim.

~The Unblessed Soul

[SiBill]

I bought a ten pack from him a while ago (not the EB nor SMV3 ) - they were almost dead mint and he included a static cling for the Turok game. I have only bought the cheap ones from him - 99 cents or so per copy. This is ingenious and sneaky - I hope those (loral and 703Chang) buyers read these posts. Those 2 are bidding up these things to ridiculous heights. More interesting to me are dealers like KC Collectibles who cheap bid on every Acclaim book out there. They basically compete with their customers and realize small per book profits on their wins (from the same customers.) They are defining a new culture in collecting. They are the Walmarts of Ebay comic collecting. Now I don't have any opinion on whether this is good or bad - plus he is a regular contributor here so I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. What do you guys think about dealers like that - how is a collector suppose to find that "delightful bargain" in that environment. Is this good or bad? Can we even debate this without it getting personal?

[dino]

Its damn sneaky especially since this is the only market for the books, without us those books are worthless. The seller clearly knew what the potential of the assets, what the books were worth before he put them on ebay and may have even lied about the reasons for the auction going down. As for people like KC collectibles, I say if they are willing to buy the book they can do whatever they want within the system, which is what they are doing. Ebay is not really a place for super bargin deals. It is where you'll find books at or around market value.

[Unblessed]

I bought a ten pack from him a while ago (not the EB nor SMV3 ) - they were almost dead mint and he included a static cling for the Turok game. I have only bought the cheap ones from him - 99 cents or so per copy. This is ingenious and sneaky - I hope those (loral and 703Chang) buyers read these posts. Those 2 are bidding up these things to ridiculous heights.

A reason I stopped buying stuff off eBay.

More interesting to me are dealers like KC Collectibles who cheap bid on every Acclaim book out there. They basically compete with their customers and realize small per book profits on their wins (from the same customers.) They are defining a new culture in collecting. They are the Walmarts of Ebay comic collecting. Now I don't have any opinion on whether this is good or bad - plus he is a regular contributor here so I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. What do you guys think about dealers like that - how is a collector suppose to find that "delightful bargain" in that environment. Is this good or bad?

If they are going to bid and sell like NORMAL people, I see nothing wrong with capitalism. But then again, I don't like ebayism.

Can we even debate this without it getting personal?

Doubt it. /THROWS MUD AT Dino and ZWH!/ Take that, poopyheads!

/pops open a can of fresh worms/

~The Unblessed Soul

[tanord]

15,000 comics is a lot of overstock. Maybe some of those are some extra VH1 Turok #1s?

[greg]

15,000 comics is a lot of overstock. Maybe some of those are some extra VH1 Turok #1s?

It's likely...
Valiant did have a "trade program" to redeem regular Turok #1s for Gold issues.

Another thing that's likely is Gold books...
These are books that were held by Valiant to reward collectors/dealers
at conventions, for promoting Valiant, etc. They would have been
"in the office" for that purpose. Did they survive? We'll see.

VVSS books would have been around the office as well,
since they were signed and embossed after printing.
There's a potential for a lot of those to be included.

I can't say for sure, but I don't believe that antonio631 was aware of the
volatile nature of Turok EB Games when he first posted the auction.
He posted 10 copies of regular and 10 copies of EB Games without specifying
which was which... just a quote about "this is one of two covers".
Both started at $0.99 with no reserve.

So... from that standpoint, I'd have to guess that he's used ValiantComics.com
as a "crash course" in Valiant/Acclaim information in the past couple weeks.

Remember, he bought all the books "sight unseen"... so it was entirely possible
that he could have wound up with 15,000 copies of Turok #1.
That wouldn't even be 1% of the print run.

[greg]

What do you guys think about dealers like that - how is a collector suppose to find that "delightful bargain" in that environment. Is this good or bad? Can we even debate this without it getting personal?

As far as "10 packs" go... we can only assume that anyone who bids
is thinking of selling the books individually. Few among us actually
buy and hold 10 copies at a time... and even those who do have the
concept of "future resale" in mind.

From the standpoint of buying 10 copies (as a single auction lot) simply
to re-sell them individually, I don't think you can differentiate between
the collector and the dealer. For that one issue, everyone who bids
is a potential dealer... whether they have a shop and employees or not.

If we're talking about individual books, I wouldn't expect dealers to pay
"top dollar" for anything... since retail requires mark-up.
Even if bidders are buying with the intent to re-sell, it's got to be discounted
in some way... otherwise, there's no point in bidding.

While there may not be "dirt cheap" auctions in this scenario,
everything isn't selling for top dollar either. If it's top dollar, then you can be sure
that it will either be sold for a loss, or put away for a long time.
If it's sold for a loss, maybe you'll be the beneficiary of that deal...
and if it's put away, then whoever bought it becomes a collector, too.

[400yrs]

My first instinct is to say that prices will drop as demand is met, but that depends on what he actually has. To me, it seems like he doesn't really know comics or at least Valiants. Considering this and the fact that 2 of his first auctions listed were for extremely rare variants, I think he probably has a lot of good books there. I seriously doubt that he searched for those 2 variants to list first and more than likely just happened across them meaning that there may be similar books where those came from.

Does this mean the books I bought from him are "file copies?"

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

You have to be persistent and VERY aware of the market to 'make money' on eBay. It's a ridiculously difficult thing to do, unless you cheat.

And yes, lots of sellers cheat.

However....if you watch cycles, pay attention to the market, it CAN be done....I did it full time for two years with no website to support me, but I know a HELL of a lot about comics, so that's my 'leg up'...unfortunately, eBay is the great levelling of the playing field, because you simply cannot buy things from people for 'nothing' and turn around and sell them for a profit...there's too many people watching, and even if someone doesn't know what they're doing (antonio being the PERFECT example here) they're still not going to get screwed.

3 years ago, when the books were new, that lot might have sold for $30. Maybe. Doubftul.

So it's not as if..on eBay...you're ever going to run in to someone who says 'I have these Spiderman comics from the early 60's, do you want them for $5?'.

Never happen.

[ZephyrWasHOT!!]

By the by....there are also plenty of dealers who live 'on the margin' as it were, living solely on the amount, after fees, they can make trading in very high dollar books. That Detective #31 for example....a KNOWLEDGEABLE dealer could, provided it was accurately graded, could flip that book withOUT CGC for $20,000, easy.

But it's a HUGE risk, and few have the cajones (or the resources) to play those kinds of games. I certainly don't.

[Escaflown4]

Since we know he got Acclaim's comic archive from the assets liquidation. Do we have any word on who got the Valiant/Acclaim character's rights? Or is that still up in limbo?

[mrwoogieman]

Since we know he got Acclaim's comic archive from the assets liquidation. Do we have any word on who got the Valiant/Acclaim character's rights? Or is that still up in limbo?

Those rights, along with every scrap of original art (comic/video game related/promotional or otherwise) that was left at the Acclaim HQ have not yet been sold.

I was told that the original art will go to the purchaser of the rights to the comic characters as a package deal.

[greg]

Does this mean the books I bought from him are "file copies?"

Yep... whatever that's worth to ya.

[SiBill]

However....if you watch cycles, pay attention to the market, it CAN be done....I did it full time for two years with no website to support me, but I know a HELL of a lot about comics, so that's my 'leg up'...unfortunately, eBay is the great levelling of the playing field, because you simply cannot buy things from people for 'nothing' and turn around and sell them for a profit...there's too many people watching, and even if someone doesn't know what they're doing (antonio being the PERFECT example here) they're still not going to get screwed.

Well - this will be an interesting case study. We'll see how long Antonio takes to "re-list" books. To paraphrase you - the market will regulate itself. Everyone in the know will regard Antonio suspiciously. He will probably learn from these circumstances and create new accounts with new strategies. This guy is probably smarter than some of us give him credit for. Why else would he buy 15000 bucks - for a 99 cents store? I will be watching - this could be fun. PS - maybe Antonio's real name is Gareb Shamus On a serious tip - perhaps Wizard or some other industry rag will write this story and inspire Vertigo to buy the characters - now that's what I's like to see (Shadowman for mature audience)

[riftt]

Since we know he got Acclaim's comic archive from the assets liquidation. Do we have any word on who got the Valiant/Acclaim character's rights? Or is that still up in limbo?

Those rights, along with every scrap of original art (comic/video game related/promotional or otherwise) that was left at the Acclaim HQ have not yet been sold.

I was told that the original art will go to the purchaser of the rights to the comic characters as a package deal.

what's the asking price?

[dino]

You have to be persistent and VERY aware of the market to 'make money' on eBay. It's a ridiculously difficult thing to do, unless you cheat.

And yes, lots of sellers cheat.

However....if you watch cycles, pay attention to the market, it CAN be done....I did it full time for two years with no website to support me, but I know a HELL of a lot about comics, so that's my 'leg up'...unfortunately, eBay is the great levelling of the playing field, because you simply cannot buy things from people for 'nothing' and turn around and sell them for a profit...there's too many people watching, and even if someone doesn't know what they're doing (antonio being the PERFECT example here) they're still not going to get screwed.

3 years ago, when the books were new, that lot might have sold for $30. Maybe. Doubftul.

So it's not as if..on eBay...you're ever going to run in to someone who says 'I have these Spiderman comics from the early 60's, do you want them for $5?'.

Never happen.

Unless it's a buy it now

[tanord]

Greg, is the newfound Valiant/Acclaim collection accounted for in your print run or are they extra copies on top of the print run?

[greg]

Greg, is the newfound Valiant/Acclaim collection accounted for in your print run or are they extra copies on top of the print run?

I don't believe they would have any impact... at least not what we know so far...
10 copies from a distributor pack means two things...
a) 10 copies doesn't matter in a print run of thousands
b) They came from a distributor, so they should be counted in the original distributor order numbers.
(These numbers from the Standard Catalog of Comic Books fed a lot of the estimates on the site.)

If 100 or more copies of some of the more limited books appear,
then we'll have to consider that the print run may be larger than
the current estimates... it's a tough call though, because we'll probably
never see more than 25% of any book on the secondary market.
The "other 75%" might as well be trash, so print runs generally mean
much less than "supply readily available", when it comes to collecting.

Of course, if he happens to find a stack of a certain printing error from Bloodshot 0,
then I think I'll be adjusting the print run estimates immediately.

[dino]

If he has a stack of those bloodshot error books then he really will change the back issue market.

[tbrezz]

VVSS books would have been around the office as well,
since they were signed and embossed after printing.
There's a potential for a lot of those to be included.

Well he difinetly has VVSS books Don't know if they came from the purchase or not but he had up a Armorines 1 VVSS and a Rai 21 VVSS no coa along with a turok Redpath signed by Fabian Nicieza and Rafael Kayanan and a Harbinger Act of Gods signed by James Perham so odds are they are more in there hopefully that elusive Psi Lords #1 VVSS