New Valiants cheap printing quality?

[valiantdude]

ok..when i bought xo #1, i bought 2 copies 1 pullbox and 1 regular from my LCS. The pullbox version had the pages coming out in the middle as if it was barely stapled.. i wrote it off, glad to support dino..
But now i only bought 1 copy of xo #2 and the same thing. Pages coming loose in the middle!
my lcs said he would exchange it, which is fine, but... it seems like Valiant went for the cheapest possible printing/binding.
I know theyre trying to be successful, but if 25% of the print runs came back damaged as stated in another post, that kinda sucks for them.. also it makes me think if these books are handled at all they will not stand the test of time..
where are they getting these books printed.. china? Anyone else have issues?

[valiantdude]

ok it says printed in the usa.. so please crack the whip on these guys...i would be super *SQUEE* if i placed an order for something and 25% o them were consistently damaged..

[dbngaa]

Just curious if they use multiple printers around the country, and if any of these printing defects are regional. I only ask because I haven't had any issues with problems thus far. I mean, the paper quality is the same, but no miscut covers or pages coming loose. Might just be lucky and I shouldn't tempt comic fate.

I'm southern US, in case we want to compare notes.

[BugsySig]

It should be noted that paper quality is going down accross the board with every publisher to save on cost. Most Marvel and DC books are going to start shipping with covers printed on the same paper as the interiors--no more card stock. Marvel already made the announcement, and with DC's $2.99 price point, I would suspect the same from them soon.

Personally I don't notice it because I buy all my comics digitally (other than the new #1s for the Valiant launch and trades).

[ckb]

There was a good discussion about this in my XO 1 grading process thread in Buy/Sell/Trade.

I would like to expect more for the VEI $3.99 price point as well, but I think the quality we are seeing is typical.

[jmatt]

For $4 a comic book with 22 pages, the freaking paper stock should be awesome.

This is not a cheap comic book. We should be getting cardstock covers for $4.

[vikingspawn]

[Aram]

There was a good discussion about this in my XO 1 grading process thread in Buy/Sell/Trade.

I would like to expect more for the VEI $3.99 price point as well, but I think the quality we are seeing is typical.

I think the quality of art and story in the Harby and those few pages of Bloodshot make it worth the 3.99 for me.

You really need to understand my position to know how big a statement that is... I am VERY "cheap". I ranted and raved left and right to Valiant that they should make sure to be a 2.99 price point on regular issues and only 3.99 on first issues...

I for one don't even mind the cheaper paper stock on covers as long as they print on quality paper with quality inks and they keep up the amazing quality of art and story that they have shown in Harbinger and Bloodshot.

[jmatt]

I think the quality of art and story in the Harby and those few pages of Bloodshot make it worth the 3.99 for me.

Let's see how Joe Comicbuyer feels about it in 18months. I don't think the $3.99 pricepoint can be maintained at 22 pages. Once the relaunch is well under way and the industry is dangling some new bauble in 2014, non-hardcore fans will drift.

[etos45]

I think the quality of art and story in the Harby and those few pages of Bloodshot make it worth the 3.99 for me.

Let's see how Joe Comicbuyer feels about it in 18months. I don't think the $3.99 pricepoint can be maintained at 22 pages. Once the relaunch is well under way and the industry is dangling some new bauble in 2014, non-hardcore fans will drift.

I kind of think the same as you one this. For the physical quality of the book (I read mine once, it was in great shape, now it's warped and has a small crease in it), it's not worth $3.99. If I were not a hard core Valiant fan, I wouldn't be buying these books. Also, I don't try ANY new books at $3.99 and I've dropped most of my titles that were $3.99 unless I just absolutely had to keep buying them.

Right now, it doesn't seem to be hurting Valiant from the Diamond numbers but I wonder how much is actually selling out at comic shops? Mine still has a HUGE stack of X-O #1, with two matching stacks of Harbinger and X-O #2. I have a feeling the lack of sales will drastically influence what he's ordered in the future (I guess Bloodshot #1 might reflect this?).

So, hopefully, they can find a way to either increase the quality of lower the price.

BTW - I'm in the South East and book damage (on the shelf) hasn't been a big problem for me. I think it might be more Diamond's distribution than the printer on a lot of the damages people are seeing.

[tchalla8]

(I read mine once, it was in great shape, now it's warped and has a small crease in it)

How is it you read your books so violently? I've read mine two or three times and they still look great.

[etos45]

(I read mine once, it was in great shape, now it's warped and has a small crease in it)

How is it you read your books so violently? I've read mine two or three times and they still look great.

Well I read them while having seizures.

I really have no idea, I'm pretty careful when I read, but when I put it back in the bag and set it on a flat surface I notice it was curving upward. "Crease" may not be the right word, though. It isn't like a bend or a fold there's just a line of light where you can see the book bending up. This was only so noticeable to me because I was thinking how great the book's condition was when I got home.

[MoonChild]

I agree, for 3.99 a pop we deserve better stock covers than this. I dont care if the interiors stay the same but please VEI, give us better paper stock for the covers!!

[jmatt]

If I were not a hard core Valiant fan, I wouldn't be buying these books. Also, I don't try ANY new books at $3.99 and I've dropped most of my titles that were $3.99 ...Right now, it doesn't seem to be hurting Valiant from the Diamond numbers but I wonder how much is actually selling out at comic shops?

This is a worry for me too. First issue speculation and collection, and pumped-up orders for the variants may be amping up the figures far beyond their actual market penetration. If there's a lot of stock still sitting on the shelf, and the crazy fanbase was ordering 10 of everything to get their hands on a variant, X-O may have printed 42,000 copies that were only read by 20,000 people.

Secondly, yeah, if Valiant was a publisher I'd never read before and I was already at my budget max for my monthly buys, would I shell out $4 for a 22 page comic? You might get some people to dig a little deeper at launch but once the shine is off and Harbinger is at issue 28, the justification is far less.

As I've said before, at 22 pages for $4, every issue and story-arc had better be an irreplaceable gem. I am presently re-reading VH1 and already I've come across a bunch of issues I've said "I wouldn't pay $4 for that." And I'm still in the halcyon days of 1994.

[StarBrand]

It should be noted that paper quality is going down accross the board with every publisher to save on cost. Most Marvel and DC books are going to start shipping with covers printed on the same paper as the interiors--no more card stock. Marvel already made the announcement, and with DC's $2.99 price point, I would suspect the same from them soon.

I didn't realize this. I wonder if less new comics will be submitted to CGC because of this. It seems likely.

[vikingspawn]

2 issues out and they're already downgrading the paper.

Summer of damaged Valiants!

Maybe they're holding out for the trades...

Bongo charges $2.99 per comic and they still manage to print on thick cardstock for their books and those sell under 7,000 units in the U.S..

With the flimsy paper these new Valiants have, its no wonder that dent damage is happening to the books.

For $4 a pop, I thought these books would get a better deal at the printers and with so many variant covers they put out.

[tchalla8]

2 issues out and they're already downgrading the paper.

Summer of damaged Valiants!

Maybe they're holding out for the trades...

Bongo charges $2.99 per comic and they still manage to print on thick cardstock for thier books and those sell under 7,000 units in the U.S..

With the flimsy paper these new Valiants have, its no wonder that dent damage is happening to the books.

For $4 a pop, I thought these books would get a better deal at the printers and with so many variant covers they put out.

I must be on a different planet. I'm holding both a Valiant book and a Marvel book, and I don't feel much of a difference in the paper.

[MoonChild]

He said Bongo. Really though, we know a thicker cover is far more appealing and protects the comic much better than a cover as flimsy as the interiors and again at 4 dollars a pop we deserve better quality covers. Not trying to be a d!ck, I love everything VEI has put out thus far! Believe me! Im extatic. I just want this issue to be taken care of, I want my Valiants to be collectibles in collector's condition NM, that's all.

2 issues out and they're already downgrading the paper.

Summer of damaged Valiants!

Maybe they're holding out for the trades...

Bongo charges $2.99 per comic and they still manage to print on thick cardstock for thier books and those sell under 7,000 units in the U.S..

With the flimsy paper these new Valiants have, its no wonder that dent damage is happening to the books.

For $4 a pop, I thought these books would get a better deal at the printers and with so many variant covers they put out.

I must be on a different planet. I'm holding both a Valiant book and a Marvel book, and I don't feel much of a difference in the paper.

[vikingspawn]

I must be on a different planet. I'm holding both a Valiant book and a Marvel book, and I don't feel much of a difference in the paper.

I pulled out the new Harbinger book out of the bag & board and I thought I was holding a thin 16-page promo. Bends too easy.

I compared it to a new $3.50 Dark Horse comic and there's a big difference. Even on the $2.99 Image books too.

Maybe VEI will say this is a new high end type of fragile paper they are printing on.

[vikingspawn]

He said Bongo.

I sure did!

[MoonChild]

What this man says is true! ^ There's no denying it.

[jmatt]

Well, I just read the books and I'll put up some love for the gloss paper, great color and fantastic art.

Since we're talking about the stock, I thought it was worth mentioning the nice glossy paper. It really makes the color pop.

I pulled an old Valiant and put a new book and the old one, one in each hand and there's definitely a difference in the thickness of the pages and covers.

[400yrs]

Alot of people keep mentioning "card stock". What comics (aside from the independently published books) are using card stock? It's not going to happen. And honestly, I don't want "card stock".

I don't know if Marvel and DC is using "self cover" yet, but the difference between an interior page and the cover is not noticeable on big 2 books. Dark Horse uses nice stuff (on some books). Image's cover is usually better than big 2 as well.

There was a good discussion about this in my XO 1 grading process thread in Buy/Sell/Trade.

I would like to expect more for the VEI $3.99 price point as well, but I think the quality we are seeing is typical.

I believe Valiant will get this right in time. They've made an adjustment between month 1 and month 2. There's a definite difference in the cover stock. It's thicker than the interior and there is an eggshell type finish to the cover. In theory, these covers should be much stronger than the X-O 1s. It just didn't quite work out for some reason.

I have no idea who they are using to print and I'm not really familiar with the process, but after seeing the second round of books, I'm wondering if alot of the problems are with the printing press itself rather than the paper. All the X-O 1 reg cover I saw in stores had a spine issue in the same spot (at different stores). I'm seeing alot of what looks like printing creases. I'm seeing bad cuts from dull razors (on my damn 1:20 Harby variant). I'm starting to wonder if alot of the things that looked like "thumb creases" are from the printing process as well.

I can say that I look over all the books that I buy from the different publishers pretty closely and the other companies' books don't have as many consistent problems as these books have. I wonder if they are using the same printers as the other companies.

[valiantdude]

it would be nice if someone dropped VEI a line and let them know that we are all noticing this, and is probably the one major blemish on the new start-up, and its lame, would love to get dino's thoughts on this.

[400yrs]

They know about the probs, I'm sure. They changed things up after X-O #1. It just didn't work out again. I'm betting the next group of printed books will be different as well.