Big Difference from the Last One

TLC55555 · Post by **TLC55555** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:25 am

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 23375&rd=1

greg · Post by **greg** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:28 am

I guess this indicates once again... "Beware of the first public sale..."

$1,500 "Buy It Now" (first public sale)
$320 full auction (second public sale)

At that rate of decline, the third public sale will end at $68.
(And I hope I'm the winner.)

Eric Jackson · Post by **Eric Jackson** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:29 am

ya, but this one, like the other was bought buy aug002.. so he still holds the whole market. :/

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:53 am

We need to make sure some volcano or typhoon doesn't wipe Hawaii off the map. It would be a Valiant disaster.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:53 am

Is aug going to become the Valiant Dentist? Is he already? Anyone think that someone has got a more impressive collection of valiants? Does anyone has any records about what he has bought in the last few years? Someone should have been keeping track. The guy has deep pockets that is for sure, but sometimes I think that you gotta question his spending habits, well not if you are a seller...

TLC55555 · Post by **TLC55555** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:19 am

DawgPhan wrote:Is aug going to become the Valiant Dentist? Is he already? Anyone think that someone has got a more impressive collection of valiants? Does anyone has any records about what he has bought in the last few years? Someone should have been keeping track. The guy has deep pockets that is for sure, but sometimes I think that you gotta question his spending habits, well not if you are a seller...

He's a 9.8 fiend. I sold him about 10 of them myself. I wouldn't be suprised if he has hundreds. I don't know if he even bothers with 9.6's or below.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 12:03 pm

He is just very odd...I mean he buys up some books like there is no tomorrow and then others he doesnt even bother with...SOTU's great deal springs to mind...the Solar 6 which I dont think that he snaggeg also is another case. He could have picked up both of those on the cheap and never even looked at him, but he dropped the hammer on the first CEAR with what 2 hours or something like that...I am sure that he is always looking for 9,8 valiants...why does he pass on some and gobble up multiples of others? Of course I am sure that he lurks this board and loves seeing us talk about him..I would just like to see a picture of all of his slabs...i think that it would be quite impressive...or hell he could have some even more insane buyer for all of these books and doesnt even collect.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:14 pm

Harb #1 9.8, I am nearly positive, sold for almost $1000 because Dino and I (and I suppose CKB to a point) were discussing the fact that it was, at this point, a $1000-$1500 book in March or thereabouts. That was when the pop. was 3.

It sold for $969, and I'm positive it would have sold more had anyone been willing to bid more against Aug.

So...is it STILL a $1000 book? In my opinion, no, based solely on the rise in population. What's $1000 with 3 graded is $500+ with 6 or more graded. But still....Dawg's right, this board has had an INCREDIBLE influence on the prices people are willing to pay for Valiants. $60-$80 for a Magnus #0 on a routine basis? I wouldn't have imagined that 5 years ago.

ZWH <---glad to be setting market prices instead of just reporting them for a change.

TLC55555 · Post by **TLC55555** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:39 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:Harb #1 9.8, I am nearly positive, sold for almost $1000 because Dino and I (and I suppose CKB to a point) were discussing the fact that it was, at this point, a $1000-$1500 book in March or thereabouts. That was when the pop. was 3.

It sold for $969, and I'm positive it would have sold more had anyone been willing to bid more against Aug.

So...is it STILL a $1000 book? In my opinion, no, based solely on the rise in population. What's $1000 with 3 graded is $500+ with 6 or more graded. But still....Dawg's right, this board has had an INCREDIBLE influence on the prices people are willing to pay for Valiants. $60-$80 for a Magnus #0 on a routine basis? I wouldn't have imagined that 5 years ago.

ZWH <---glad to be setting market prices instead of just reporting them for a change.

I sold the $969 Harby 9.8 to Aug., which was the 5th graded at 9.8, in July. The 4th 9.8 belonged to another member of this board (x-omatic ?) and I think it sold for $1,200, but I believe sold after mine. I agree with ZWH that the $969 price would probably have been much higher if there was another party as interested as Aug. According to CGC, there are still only 5 Harby #1 9.8's (although I do have a CGG 9.8).

Similar to the Harby $969 sale, is the 2nd CEAR in 9.8. I'm guessing that it would have reached over $1,000 if there was another interested bidder at that level. If Aug was willing to pay $1,500 for the 1st one just a few weeks ago, I sure that he would have paid much more than $350 for the 2nd. It just takes more than one bidder. This is somewhat of a side effect of Aug bidding...some other bidders just don't bother. As an example, I would have bid more than $350 for the CEAR myself, but didn't bother when I saw Aug bidding. Good for Aug...bad for the seller. Basically, bidder intimation.

To answer the question, it's only a $1,000 Ebay book if more than one bidder is able to and does bid that high.

Eric Jackson · Post by **Eric Jackson** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:07 pm

yes tlc,, you've made me think twice on bidding on some harby pinks when i see you there... :littlesmile:

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:25 pm

Eric Jackson wrote:yes tlc,, you've made me think twice on bidding on some harby pinks when i see you there... :littlesmile:

why? Bid what you want to pay..then if you dont win atleast you made the other guy pay more...I know that I am happy with that when I lose an auction. I am just never in the market for stupid money valiants. They nearly always start at more than I would pay for them...bidding is free...do it...do it against everyone...I cant believe that people are intimidated by others bidding habits...cmon people...

TLC55555 · Post by **TLC55555** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:57 pm

DawgPhan wrote:
Eric Jackson wrote:yes tlc,, you've made me think twice on bidding on some harby pinks when i see you there... :littlesmile:
why? Bid what you want to pay..then if you dont win atleast you made the other guy pay more...I know that I am happy with that when I lose an auction. I am just never in the market for stupid money valiants. They nearly always start at more than I would pay for them...bidding is free...do it...do it against everyone...I cant believe that people are intimidated by others bidding habits...cmon people...

"Intimidated" was really just a figure of speach. I was making a point that you cannot be assured that a book like the CEAR in ultra-high grade will be bid extremely high if there are few bidders. There are Physiological, timing (fall-bad, Summer/Christmas-Good) factors involved also. I usually always bid what I'd be willing to spend on a book. If I win, great! If not, there will be others. I guess that making the other quy spend more really wasn't in my thoughts though!!

Eric Jackson · Post by **Eric Jackson** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:19 pm

DawgPhan wrote:
Eric Jackson wrote:yes tlc,, you've made me think twice on bidding on some harby pinks when i see you there... :littlesmile:
why? Bid what you want to pay..then if you dont win atleast you made the other guy pay more...I know that I am happy with that when I lose an auction. I am just never in the market for stupid money valiants. They nearly always start at more than I would pay for them...bidding is free...do it...do it against everyone...I cant believe that people are intimidated by others bidding habits...cmon people...

First off, i was just joking. If i want a book i'll bid whatever i want to pay. If its something that looks like i can pick it up cheap i'll do so, but i'm not going to go place bids on all books i'd like to pick up and if someone else (usually people from this board) have already bid,,, i know how much they probobly bid i'm not going to bother. Making the other guy pay is just goofy, I gain nothing from doing so.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:32 pm

Eric Jackson wrote:
DawgPhan wrote:
Eric Jackson wrote:yes tlc,, you've made me think twice on bidding on some harby pinks when i see you there... :littlesmile:
why? Bid what you want to pay..then if you dont win atleast you made the other guy pay more...I know that I am happy with that when I lose an auction. I am just never in the market for stupid money valiants. They nearly always start at more than I would pay for them...bidding is free...do it...do it against everyone...I cant believe that people are intimidated by others bidding habits...cmon people...
First off, i was just joking. If i want a book i'll bid whatever i want to pay. If its something that looks like i can pick it up cheap i'll do so, but i'm not going to go place bids on all books i'd like to pick up and if someone else (usually people from this board) have already bid,,, i know how much they probobly bid i'm not going to bother. Making the other guy pay is just goofy, I gain nothing from doing so.

sorry you feel that way...what ever happened to punishment bids? I dont do it to everyone but some people I like to place bids that I know will not win just to make them pay more for it...hell if I win I will buy it, but nothing like making someone work for it...oh and I probably wouldnt lay off of any auction just because a board member bid on it...of course there are a few that I wouldnt bid against...

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:32 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:Harb #1 9.8, I am nearly positive, sold for almost $1000 because Dino and I (and I suppose CKB to a point) were discussing the fact that it was, at this point, a $1000-$1500 book in March or thereabouts. That was when the pop. was 3.

It sold for $969, and I'm positive it would have sold more had anyone been willing to bid more against Aug.

So...is it STILL a $1000 book? In my opinion, no, based solely on the rise in population. What's $1000 with 3 graded is $500+ with 6 or more graded. But still....Dawg's right, this board has had an INCREDIBLE influence on the prices people are willing to pay for Valiants. $60-$80 for a Magnus #0 on a routine basis? I wouldn't have imagined that 5 years ago.

ZWH <---glad to be setting market prices instead of just reporting them for a change.

You know, I remeber making this exact argument on how this book was NOT all that rare and valuable but was smack down by the board memebers. I could say, "I told you so" but I'm so above that.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 8:36 pm

whetteon wrote:
ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:Harb #1 9.8, I am nearly positive, sold for almost $1000 because Dino and I (and I suppose CKB to a point) were discussing the fact that it was, at this point, a $1000-$1500 book in March or thereabouts. That was when the pop. was 3.

It sold for $969, and I'm positive it would have sold more had anyone been willing to bid more against Aug.

So...is it STILL a $1000 book? In my opinion, no, based solely on the rise in population. What's $1000 with 3 graded is $500+ with 6 or more graded. But still....Dawg's right, this board has had an INCREDIBLE influence on the prices people are willing to pay for Valiants. $60-$80 for a Magnus #0 on a routine basis? I wouldn't have imagined that 5 years ago.

ZWH <---glad to be setting market prices instead of just reporting them for a change.
You know, I remeber making this exact argument on how this book was NOT all that rare and valuable but was smack down by the board memebers. I could say, "I told you so" but I'm so above that.

yeah I think that we both may have said that this book was not that rare in grade. I think that the jury is still out on that one...I honestly dont think that it is worth a $1000...I have a hard time thinking that any of the valiants or any book that is only 12 years old is worth that kinda coin...

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:39 pm

whetteon wrote: You know, I remeber making this exact argument on how this book was NOT all that rare and valuable but was smack down by the board memebers. I could say, "I told you so" but I'm so above that.

Who said it wasn't rare? I never said ANYTHING about the book not being rare. In fact....I say the exact opposite, STILL. It is RIDICULOUSLY rare. Here's why:

There are 5 or 6 known 9.8's. There are 504 Spawn #1 9.8's. Ok, yes, pound for pound the Spawn in 9.8 is rarER proportionately, but how about Magnus #1? There are THIRTY FOUR in 9.8. That's apples to apples. 40 Solar #1's. X-O? 37. Rai? 39. Shadowman? 26. A&A #0....? THREE. Ahhhh...there's a book. Is it really THAT rare? Did ALL the copies seem to be damaged on arrival, as mine did? Curious....indeed. OR...is it just a case where they've just not been valuable enough to bother with grading...? Interesting.

But I digress....only 5-6 copies graded in 9.8, versus high 20's (mid-30's if A&A isn't factored in) as an average for the other 6 pre-unity 'first issues'....?

The point stands, my friend.

No 'I told you so' to be had.

(as an aside....who sent in an A&A #0 Gold that came back as restored? Can you say 'waste of time, money, and good toilet paper'? <smirk> I'd LOVE to see what the 'restoration' is.

)

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:04 pm

DawgPhan wrote:
yeah I think that we both may have said that this book was not that rare in grade. I think that the jury is still out on that one...I honestly dont think that it is worth a $1000...I have a hard time thinking that any of the valiants or any book that is only 12 years old is worth that kinda coin...

It's not really about the book, as you know. It's about the grade. There has always been a market for extremely high grade books; it's just never had the chance to express itself

That's why cents...you know, 2002, brand new, 'worth 1 cent' cents...that grade in MS69 (one less than 'perfect')....sell for $500+. It's the finest known. And it's just a cent. Two years old.

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:23 pm

TLC55555 wrote:

I sold the $969 Harby 9.8 to Aug., which was the 5th graded at 9.8, in July. The 4th 9.8 belonged to another member of this board (x-omatic ?) and I think it sold for $1,200, but I believe sold after mine. I agree with ZWH that the $969 price would probably have been much higher if there was another party as interested as Aug. According to CGC, there are still only 5 Harby #1 9.8's (although I do have a CGG 9.8).

Similar to the Harby $969 sale, is the 2nd CEAR in 9.8. I'm guessing that it would have reached over $1,000 if there was another interested bidder at that level. If Aug was willing to pay $1,500 for the 1st one just a few weeks ago, I sure that he would have paid much more than $350 for the 2nd. It just takes more than one bidder. This is somewhat of a side effect of Aug bidding...some other bidders just don't bother. As an example, I would have bid more than $350 for the CEAR myself, but didn't bother when I saw Aug bidding. Good for Aug...bad for the seller. Basically, bidder intimation.

To answer the question, it's only a $1,000 Ebay book if more than one bidder is able to and does bid that high.

I actually sold my Harb 9.8 before yours but didn't announce it until later.

I would have bid on the CEAR 9.8 for over 500. Seeing how I sold a 9.6 over that amount. The timing was not right for me to spend the money, so I didn't bid. Out of the CEARs' that I have seen for sale, very few have looked to be 9.8. I think percentage wise Harb 1 will always be the hardest to get in 9.8.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:34 am

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:That's why cents...you know, 2002, brand new, 'worth 1 cent' cents...that grade in MS69 (one less than 'perfect')....sell for $500+. It's the finest known. And it's just a cent. Two years old.

Are there ever any graded perfect? And where do pennies like that come from ... surely not from somebody's pocket?

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:31 pm

DawgPhan wrote:
Eric Jackson wrote:yes tlc,, you've made me think twice on bidding on some harby pinks when i see you there... :littlesmile:
why? Bid what you want to pay..then if you dont win atleast you made the other guy pay more...I know that I am happy with that when I lose an auction. I am just never in the market for stupid money valiants. They nearly always start at more than I would pay for them...bidding is free...do it...do it against everyone...I cant believe that people are intimidated by others bidding habits...cmon people...

Mmmm...not intimidation, really, more of a resignation, because you know, at the end of the day, unless you bid stupid money you're not going to win.

Unless, of course, you're one of those people that gets a thrill out of making others pay more.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:39 pm

depluto wrote:
ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:That's why cents...you know, 2002, brand new, 'worth 1 cent' cents...that grade in MS69 (one less than 'perfect')....sell for $500+. It's the finest known. And it's just a cent. Two years old.

Are there ever any graded perfect? And where do pennies like that come from ... surely not from somebody's pocket?

There ARE, but they are ridiculously rare. The ones that you find are generally proofs, which already go through a rigourous prcoess already. The only business strike MS70's you find are in Mint Sets, and POSSIBLY mint bags purchased straight from the mint the day they're sent out.

And no, they don't come from anbody's pocket.

But remember, an MS70, by pCGS standards (THE standard) has to have no flaws visible ANYWHERE on the entire surface, at a 10 TIMES magnification rate.

Pretty picky.

Considering that, it's MUCH, MUCH harder to get an NGC MS70 than a CGC 10.0.

That's my background, what I've done for 22 years now....so that's why I get a lil'....mmmm....irked when someone questions my grading ability.