batman RIP

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:08 pm

anyone have a idea how it will end ???

has it been good bad or ugly in your opinion

Steve Topper · Post by **Steve Topper** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:04 pm

No idea how it's going to end. I suspect Batman will be gone for some set amount of time and then return. But just guessing.

My opinion of it so far is, it has been not good. Not really bad, but nothing I would recommend to anybody. But then, I'm not especially a big Grant Morrison fan, either.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:10 pm

I got to agree its been pretty sad not near the par of lee and loabs run, or the batman and son arc and for a story with big changes i expected more

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:49 am

I dropped Batman during this RIP run. I had no clue as to what was going on and didn't enjoy the book at all under Morrisson. Decided to save myself another $3 / month rather than collect out of habit.

So to me, RIP sucked.

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:18 am

I was getting into Batman a little bit before RIP. I was reading Detective and probably the 4 or so issues of Batman prior to RIP but I just didn't want to get bogged down in the huge crossover.

I do still read Detective and it seems a rather self-contained corner of the RIP story.

dave · Post by **dave** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:44 am

when i left batman it was because they made it necessary to pick up all 12 monthlies or whatever...

i would've expected good things from morrisson-esp after batman was ridigin so high with lee and loeb

ncameron · Post by **ncameron** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:46 am

I'm a Grant Whorisan.
I pretty much buy everything Grant has written since he started writing New X-Men.
***spoiler filled analysis***
RIP started very slow, the first two issues were very poorly paced. Morrison as of late often seems to be writing for the trade except that every 22 pages he has a big splash page reveal or some cliffhanger. Which is most modern comic writers style but its frustrating especially in stories that have delays.

My biggest problem with the book is that in theory every issue since grant started writing Batman culminates into RIP. By trying to take the bat *SQUEE* crazy silver age stories and condense that everything that happened in those stories either really happened or were hallucinations due to a psychological breakdown in an attempt to understand the Joker, its just seems hard to take. Even moreso then the unretcon of Batman's son with Talia. Or the 3 murderous Batmen.

Also my other big problem was the reveal of Jezzebel Jet as a member of the Black Glove. It reeks of Lee/Loeb's Hush, in which this newly introduced character is obviously the bad guy. I hate that.

Though through it all I am finishing the story to see who the damn black glove is.

Though even though I have a few criticisms of Grants run, i have enjoyed greatly the Batmen of the World arc illustrated by J.H. Williams III, its also started a lot fo the Black Glove story in bits and pieces. The Jon J. Muth issue 663 while really off putting at first upon re-reading it was really cool. Also the biggest part of RIP I enjoyed was Batman's conversations with Batmite. Specifically the line where Batman ask's mite if hes really a 5th dimension imp or a part of his imagination. to which mite replies what do you think is the 5th dimension.

Though as good as the run is I cant help but wish Dustin Nguyen who is doing the art for Detective was on batman, he's way better then daniel andI feel the Return of Hush in Detective is one of Dini's weaker stories.

-neil

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:20 pm

Think it's really Bruce's dad?

ncameron · Post by **ncameron** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:19 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:Think it's really Bruce's dad?

I hope not. Though I am intrigued to see what Alfred's role in all of this is. I have seen theories in which Alfred is the Black Glove.

For me though I dont want the Black Glove to be Thomas Wayne as it's bad enough when Bucky is alive, and Barry Allen is back. Next thing you know Uncle Ben will be brought back by Mephisto.

-Neil

How long till we see the Joker with his tongue stiched back so that all future appearances wont match the forked tongue.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:04 pm

ncameron wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote:Think it's really Bruce's dad?
I hope not. Though I am intrigued to see what Alfred's role in all of this is. I have seen theories in which Alfred is the Black Glove.

For me though I dont want the Black Glove to be Thomas Wayne as it's bad enough when Bucky is alive, and Barry Allen is back. Next thing you know Uncle Ben will be brought back by Mephisto.

-Neil

How long till we see the Joker with his tongue stiched back so that all future appearances wont match the forked tongue.

I figure Dr. Strange will fix the Joker's tongue next issue.

Did they ever have a story-line where Bruce had an older brother that supposedly died? Any theories on "Thomas Jr." out there?

Alfred as BG would be a nice homage to the old Outsider/Death of Alfred storyline as long as they don't bring back Aunt Hattie.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:26 pm

THe superman and supergirl titles are going back to a single story arc between all 3 books

ncameron · Post by **ncameron** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:05 pm

superman-prime wrote:THe superman and supergirl titles are going back to a single story arc between all 3 books

triangle numbering rules. though budget is getting tight so i am looking to cut books not buy more.

-neil

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:19 pm

It just ads 1 book to my list (supergirl )
so im ok with it

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:04 am

ncameron wrote:I'm a Grant Whorisan.
I pretty much buy everything Grant has written since he started writing New X-Men.
***spoiler filled analysis***
RIP started very slow, the first two issues were very poorly paced. Morrison as of late often seems to be writing for the trade except that every 22 pages he has a big splash page reveal or some cliffhanger. Which is most modern comic writers style but its frustrating especially in stories that have delays.

My biggest problem with the book is that in theory every issue since grant started writing Batman culminates into RIP. By trying to take the bat *SQUEE* crazy silver age stories and condense that everything that happened in those stories either really happened or were hallucinations due to a psychological breakdown in an attempt to understand the Joker, its just seems hard to take. Even moreso then the unretcon of Batman's son with Talia. Or the 3 murderous Batmen.

Also my other big problem was the reveal of Jezzebel Jet as a member of the Black Glove. It reeks of Lee/Loeb's Hush, in which this newly introduced character is obviously the bad guy. I hate that.

Though through it all I am finishing the story to see who the damn black glove is.

Though even though I have a few criticisms of Grants run, i have enjoyed greatly the Batmen of the World arc illustrated by J.H. Williams III, its also started a lot fo the Black Glove story in bits and pieces. The Jon J. Muth issue 663 while really off putting at first upon re-reading it was really cool. Also the biggest part of RIP I enjoyed was Batman's conversations with Batmite. Specifically the line where Batman ask's mite if hes really a 5th dimension imp or a part of his imagination. to which mite replies what do you think is the 5th dimension.

Though as good as the run is I cant help but wish Dustin Nguyen who is doing the art for Detective was on batman, he's way better then daniel andI feel the Return of Hush in Detective is one of Dini's weaker stories.

-neil

Grant Morrison is very over-rated he can deliver a great story (like JLA and Arkham Asylum) when he wants to, but the problem is that 80% of his "best" stuff is total crap.

The Filth and Marvel Boy were complete and total crap because Morrison was writing a bunch of stories that had a ton of over the top $hit that if anyone else wrote it, that writer would never write for Marvel or DC again but because it's Grant Morrison it's considered cool and hip when in truth it's a piece of $hit.

Also Morrison tries to be a "non-liner" writer but sadly he comes off more as a stupid hack than to be the next Alan Moore.

nutflush76 · Post by **nutflush76** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:41 pm

I think Jezzebel jet is the black glove. Especially after the ending of the most recent issue.

I have mixexd feelings on this story arc. It really seems like not much has happened in the last 4 issues. The other books in the crossover don't seem to be that interconnected with the main story at all.

It has been kinda neat to see the old silver age stories tied in to the current contunuity. Up until now they have been treated as if they never happened. This is really the first attempt to make them relevant and I think that has really been done well.

As for the Joker. I really don't like the way Daniel has drawn him he doesn't look so much like a homicidal clown as he does look like some guy who has a bunch of scars on his face resembling a grin. Also, when he cut his tongue there was NO BLOOD! He would have had blood gushing all over his face which would have made him really cool.

Also, I really don't like the way he has been written. Gone is the crazy clown of the killing joke that everybody loves and in his place is just another cold-blooded homicidal maniac.

Big deal.

That's not the Joker.

I really hope DC does not go any farther with this "interpretation" of the Joker.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:09 am

ya going dk with the joker is a little over kill it just makes him a normal maniac

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:12 pm

nutflush76 wrote:As for the Joker. I really don't like the way Daniel has drawn him he doesn't look so much like a homicidal clown as he does look like some guy who has a bunch of scars on his face resembling a grin.

Didn't they retcon Joker's origin earlier this year to make The Bat responsible for the J-man's scars/grin?

ncameron · Post by **ncameron** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:47 pm

BloodOfHeroes wrote:
nutflush76 wrote:As for the Joker. I really don't like the way Daniel has drawn him he doesn't look so much like a homicidal clown as he does look like some guy who has a bunch of scars on his face resembling a grin.
Didn't they retcon Joker's origin earlier this year to make The Bat responsible for the J-man's scars/grin?

If they retcon and no one notices does it count?
see:
Superman:Birthright
Spiderman:Chapter One

-Neil

sanman · Post by **sanman** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:10 pm

The RIP Batman books have been okay, though I’m a bit ticked that the other titles are marked “RIP” just to boost sales. Sorta reminds me of Knightsend or Reign of the Supermen but even less interesting.

Is Bruce Wayne going to die? I still can’t believe DC will actually go through with it but we’ll see. Whatever Morrison does it will not be permanent—whether there’s a planned return soon or a later writer trying to fix a train wreck.

Crap or not DC will probably get my money for Batman and Detective until the day I die. I have a continuous run of both starting somewhere in the early 70’s and I’ve watched the titles’ quality go up and down over the years—not ready to throw the Bat out with the guano yet.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:23 pm

from the lee run batman has been pretty good up to this point detective has been way streaky forever, you get a good few issues then 10 crap ones, you would figure for the 2ed longest running title they would put a super team on detective

nutflush76 · Post by **nutflush76** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:41 pm

superman-prime wrote:from the lee run batman has been pretty good up to this point detective has been way streaky forever, you get a good few issues then 10 crap ones, you would figure for the 2ed longest running title they would put a super team on detective

I agree, but for some reason DC views "Batman" as the Batman flagship book.

I guess because it's called "Batman"

They probably think new readers will get confused by "Detective Comics".

Actually come to think of it when I first started collecting comics as a wee child I didn't know Detective was a bat-book either.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:14 pm

ya but come on dc dont treat detective as second fiddle do arks between the 2 like superman is going 2

ncameron · Post by **ncameron** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:16 am

superman-prime wrote:ya but come on dc dont treat detective as second fiddle do arks between the 2 like superman is going 2

I would love to see DC streamline the batbooks to say
Batman
Detective
Robin
Cancel the Outsiders, keep brave and the bold doing its own thing along with Batman/Superman or is it Superman/Batman. Also keep Nightwing in NYC or Bludhaven or some city far away from Gotham.

You could have Batman, Detective, and Robin all working coordinated like you do with the Superman Family. Morrison and Dini could still work out their respective stopries but just unified in an overall direction. As it stands the Batman in Batman is some crippled husk of a man going through a psychotic episode, while the Batman in Detective is akin to the Batman the Animated Series, which given Dini's history is unsurprising. I would like to see a more consistent approach like what Johns and Robinson are doing but who knows it's DC editorial that allows the craziness as of late.

-neil

ncameron · Post by **ncameron** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:25 am

Though it looks like the conclusion to RIP got delayed. Surprise, who would have guessed.

From Diamond's Shipping Update page for 10/22

Batman #681 RIP Reg./Var.
AUG08 0132-3
11/19/2008

Then two weeks later we get.
Batman #682 Reg./Var.
SEP08 0111-2
12/3/2008

Followed by 2 weeks later.
Batman #683 Reg./Var.
SEP08 0113-4
12/17/2008

And another two weeks and this is the 2nd part of the Denny O'Neil story the first being Detective 851.
Batman #684 Reg./Var.
OCT08 0110-11
12/31/2008

January Solicits list a 2 part Faces of Evil story involving Catwoman and Hush in Detective 852 and Batman 685 done by the Dini/Nguyen team. So I am assuming the Neil Gaiman/Andy Kubert two parter would be in February. So who knows when the batbooks will start this Battle for the Cowl that takes place after RIP.

-Neil

J-Scott-R · Post by **J-Scott-R** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:42 am

superman-prime wrote:from the lee run batman has been pretty good up to this point detective has been way streaky forever, you get a good few issues then 10 crap ones, you would figure for the 2ed longest running title they would put a super team on detective

I'm more of the opinion that Detective has been the most consistent of the Bat books. I agree that Batman usually has the flashier of artists, but it also gets stuck with the most overrated writers (Grant Morrison for one), but Detective has been fairly steady for the last twenty years with writers like Alan Grant, Chuck Dixon, Greg Rucka, and now Paul Dini.

Scott