Notable shooter quotes and the new HCs

[yardstick]

These quotes are taken from the Petrilak (1998) interview:
http://www.valiantcomics.com/valiant/joe/shooter/

Q: Did you read any of the new VALIANT Universe books? Fabian's books?

A: Well, not really. I ran into Fabian before the new stuff launched, and he said he was really interested in my opinion... but the only thing I read was some promotional stuff they did- a brochure, sort of- talking about Armstrong and other characters as the world's oldest dysfunctional family (their Retailer Review Copies they handed out. -Joe)... I didn't think much of the ideas. I remember that there were several things touted in that brochure that I didn't think much of. I haven't read the actual books. Let me put it to you this way: if I ever had control of those characters again I'd benignly neglect a lot of it.


Q: So what would you do?

A: Geez. Well, I would be tempted to start at Unity, pick it up from there.


Q: Wow!

A: I don't know... that would be my first instinct, but I'd have to sit down and read all the stuff. And I'd probably find some good things, and say well... I can't throw the whole thing out. But just sitting here with you? My instinct would be to pick it up from Unity, rewriting Unity #1, which I plotted but did not script, and going on from there.


Speculation: With the HC reprints, does it look like this is what is happening?

[ManofTheAtom]

These quotes are taken from the Petrilak (1998) interview:

Q: Did you read any of the new VALIANT Universe books? Fabian's books?

A: Well, not really. I ran into Fabian before the new stuff launched, and he said he was really interested in my opinion... but the only thing I read was some promotional stuff they did- a brochure, sort of- talking about Armstrong and other characters as the world's oldest dysfunctional family (their Retailer Review Copies they handed out. -Joe)... I didn't think much of the ideas. I remember that there were several things touted in that brochure that I didn't think much of. I haven't read the actual books. Let me put it to you this way: if I ever had control of those characters again I'd benignly neglect a lot of it.


Q: So what would you do?

A: Geez. Well, I would be tempted to start at Unity, pick it up from there.


Q: Wow!

A: I don't know... that would be my first instinct, but I'd have to sit down and read all the stuff. And I'd probably find some good things, and say well... I can't throw the whole thing out. But just sitting here with you? My instinct would be to pick it up from Unity, rewriting Unity #1, which I plotted but did not script, and going on from there.


Speculation: With the HC reprints, does it look like this is what is happening?

Not with the A&A hc.

It be funny if the hardcover were just A&A 0 with the new short story, though, lol.

[cjv]

It actually sounds more like what he did with Unity 2000.

Start over from Unity, rewrite it, and seemingly not really care about the characters too much.

Chris

[yardstick]

These quotes are taken from the Petrilak (1998) interview:

Q: Did you read any of the new VALIANT Universe books? Fabian's books?

A: Well, not really. I ran into Fabian before the new stuff launched, and he said he was really interested in my opinion... but the only thing I read was some promotional stuff they did- a brochure, sort of- talking about Armstrong and other characters as the world's oldest dysfunctional family (their Retailer Review Copies they handed out. -Joe)... I didn't think much of the ideas. I remember that there were several things touted in that brochure that I didn't think much of. I haven't read the actual books. Let me put it to you this way: if I ever had control of those characters again I'd benignly neglect a lot of it.


Q: So what would you do?

A: Geez. Well, I would be tempted to start at Unity, pick it up from there.


Q: Wow!

A: I don't know... that would be my first instinct, but I'd have to sit down and read all the stuff. And I'd probably find some good things, and say well... I can't throw the whole thing out. But just sitting here with you? My instinct would be to pick it up from Unity, rewriting Unity #1, which I plotted but did not script, and going on from there.


Speculation: With the HC reprints, does it look like this is what is happening?

Not with the A&A hc.

It be funny if the hardcover were just A&A 0 with the new short story, though, lol.

How many VH1 characters "guest star" in A&A issues 3-end? In what issue does the first VH1 guest appear, and who is it?

If there is a negligible impact on the VH1 continuity with A&A issues after Unity, then we could be talking about the possiblity that A&A post-unity issues are not going to impact the VEI universe enough to matter. So the speculation would then be more valid than it appears on its face.

[ManofTheAtom]

How many *VALIANT (1991-1996)* characters "guest star" in A&A issues 3-end? In what issue does the first *VALIANT (1991-1996)* guest appear, and who is it?

If there is a negligible impact on the *VALIANT (1991-1996)* continuity with A&A issues after Unity, then we could be talking about the possiblity that A&A post-unity issues are not going to impact the VEI universe enough to matter. So the speculation would then be more valid than it appears on its face.

You mean from 3 to 12?

Ivar is in 8, Janine Noir and Master Darque are in 9, Ivar is in 10 and 11 , Magnus... I mean Solar is in 11 and 12.

Other than the two Unity issues with Gilad and Turok, issues 4-7 are pretty much guest star free.

[yardstick]

In the quotes above, Shooter is saying he would begin again with Unity #1 and go from there. None of the characters you have mentioned would substantially impact a reboot from Unity #1 (comparing the A&A HC), except for Solar. I am sure Shooter would be able to write neglecting Solar, notwithstanding his A&A HC appearance.

[ManofTheAtom]

In the quotes above, Shooter is saying he would begin again with Unity #1 and go from there. None of the characters you have mentioned would substantially impact a reboot from Unity #1 (comparing the A&A HC), except for Solar. I am sure Shooter would be able to write neglecting Solar, notwithstanding his A&A HC appearance.

Shooter already did the "starting after Unity" idea in U2K, and it was a disaster.

Plus, there are a lot of other things to consider beside character apperances.

For instance, Unity took place in 1992. It be ridicolous for VEI's new line of titles to be set in 1992, just like it be as ridicolous to have the characters appear in 2008 after leaving 1992.

For one thing, wouldn't Harada have taken over the world sometime during those 16 years? What about Elya's prophecy? ("gee, guess she was wrong. Here I am in 2008, still alive and kicking").

What about the cliffhangers, like with X-O, who went to 409? (I suppose that the cliffhanger with A&A is resolved in the HC).

What about Jillian in Eternal Warrior? If he appears in 2008 then it means that the gunmen killed her, no?

Of course, a third possibility would be to have them return to Earth in 92 and then jump forward to 2008 and pretend that nothing that was published happened... but then, what about VEI's investment?

They spent close to a million dollars (just on the properties, that's not counting all other development) on more than just the initial eight VALIANT titles.

If they ignore everything after Unity then they have to ignore all the other properties they acquired, like Bloodshot, Ninjak, Psi-Lords, Timewalker, The Visitor, Armorines, HARD Corps, and the rest.

Sure, they could "reintroduce them into continuity", but that would require having to pay creators to tell NEW origin/introductory stories.

That doesn't make much sense given that they already own the originals, which they could just as easily reprint as they have the three hardcovers they've done so far.

One could argue that they could reprint a Ninjak hardcover and say that "nothing after Unity happened, EXCEPT for these Ninjak stories", but that be silly.

[cjv]

In the quotes above, Shooter is saying he would begin again with Unity #1 and go from there. None of the characters you have mentioned would substantially impact a reboot from Unity #1 (comparing the A&A HC), except for Solar. I am sure Shooter would be able to write neglecting Solar, notwithstanding his A&A HC appearance.

Shooter already did the "starting after Unity" idea in U2K, and it was a disaster.

That's my thought. U2K was more along the line of what Shooter was describing.

The fact is that is appears that VEI is going to (at the very least) have Unity, and at least part of post-Unity Valiant comics be considered "canon".

For instance, Unity took place in 1992. It be ridicolous for VEI's new line of titles to be set in 1992, just like it be as ridicolous to have the characters appear in 2008 after leaving 1992.

Why would it be ridiculous? In the Lost Land, time os not absolute (or is it absolute in the lost land? I always get it confused). Anyway, people can get to any time FROM the lost land, if my understanding of it is correct...so they could easilly enter the lost land in 19992, and exit in 2008. Heck, Aric got sent to the year 409!

Probably they won't do that, and they have given no indication that they will reboot from Unity (or some point after it). In fact, given that they are printing A&A after Unity, I agree with you that they probably are not going to reboot following Unity.

For one thing, wouldn't Harada have taken over the world sometime during those 16 years? What about Elya's prophecy? ("gee, guess she was wrong. Here I am in 2008, still alive and kicking").

Yup, Harada might have (or other resistance fighters might have apperas).

As for Elya, you yourself said Elya's "prophecy" could be suspect. (NOT Rai 0, but Elya)

None of those mean it would be ridiculous to have the heroes appear in 2008 instead of 1992.

Chris

[yardstick]

In the quotes above, Shooter is saying he would begin again with Unity #1 and go from there. None of the characters you have mentioned would substantially impact a reboot from Unity #1 (comparing the A&A HC), except for Solar. I am sure Shooter would be able to write neglecting Solar, notwithstanding his A&A HC appearance.

Shooter already did the "starting after Unity" idea in U2K, and it was a disaster.

Plus, there are a lot of other things to consider beside character apperances.

For instance, Unity took place in 1992. It be ridicolous for VEI's new line of titles to be set in 1992, just like it be as ridicolous to have the characters appear in 2008 after leaving 1992.

For one thing, wouldn't Harada have taken over the world sometime during those 16 years? What about Elya's prophecy? ("gee, guess she was wrong. Here I am in 2008, still alive and kicking").

What about the cliffhangers, like with X-O, who went to 409? (I suppose that the cliffhanger with A&A is resolved in the HC).

What about Jillian in Eternal Warrior? If he appears in 2008 then it means that the gunmen killed her, no?

Of course, a third possibility would be to have them return to Earth in 92 and then jump forward to 2008 and pretend that nothing that was published happened... but then, what about VEI's investment?

They spent close to a million dollars (just on the properties, that's not counting all other development) on more than just the initial eight VALIANT titles.

If they ignore everything after Unity then they have to ignore all the other properties they acquired, like Bloodshot, Ninjak, Psi-Lords, Timewalker, The Visitor, Armorines, HARD Corps, and the rest.

Sure, they could "reintroduce them into continuity", but that would require having to pay creators to tell NEW origin/introductory stories.

That doesn't make much sense given that they already own the originals, which they could just as easily reprint as they have the three hardcovers they've done so far.

One could argue that they could reprint a Ninjak hardcover and say that "nothing after Unity happened, EXCEPT for these Ninjak stories", but that be silly.

MOTA, The quotes say "neglect" not ingore. I am not talking about a retcon here, or even a traditional reboot. Take, for example, Shooter's treatment of the previous continuity of Magnus before VH1. He even discusses it in the Petrilak interview, how he subtley developed Leeja's character from the bimbo she was portrayed in the Russ Manning Gold Key Magnus to the VH1 version.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reboot

[ManofTheAtom]

In the quotes above, Shooter is saying he would begin again with Unity #1 and go from there. None of the characters you have mentioned would substantially impact a reboot from Unity #1 (comparing the A&A HC), except for Solar. I am sure Shooter would be able to write neglecting Solar, notwithstanding his A&A HC appearance.

Shooter already did the "starting after Unity" idea in U2K, and it was a disaster.

That's my thought. U2K was more along the line of what Shooter was describing.

The fact is that is appears that VEI is going to (at the very least) have Unity, and at least part of post-Unity Valiant comics be considered "canon".

For instance, Unity took place in 1992. It be ridicolous for VEI's new line of titles to be set in 1992, just like it be as ridicolous to have the characters appear in 2008 after leaving 1992.

Why would it be ridiculous? In the Lost Land, time os not absolute (or is it absolute in the lost land? I always get it confused). Anyway, people can get to any time FROM the lost land, if my understanding of it is correct...so they could easilly enter the lost land in 19992, and exit in 2008. Heck, Aric got sent to the year 409!

Probably they won't do that, and they have given no indication that they will reboot from Unity (or some point after it). In fact, given that they are printing A&A after Unity, I agree with you that they probably are not going to reboot following Unity.

For one thing, wouldn't Harada have taken over the world sometime during those 16 years? What about Elya's prophecy? ("gee, guess she was wrong. Here I am in 2008, still alive and kicking").

Yup, Harada might have (or other resistance fighters might have apperas).

As for Elya, you yourself said Elya's "prophecy" could be suspect. (NOT Rai 0, but Elya)

None of those mean it would be ridiculous to have the heroes appear in 2008 instead of 1992.

Chris

Sure it would.

They didn't walk out of the Lost Land, Solar transported them out, which is how Aric ended up in 408, Turok ended up in 1987, Elya ended up in the 31st Century, and the others returned to 1992 (except for Shadowman, who was the only one that walked in and walked out through the doorway. At the very least he would be guaranteed to come out in 92).

Their transportation was dictated by their desire of where they wanted to go, so why would they want to go to 2008?

Gilad would want to go to save Jillian. Archer and Armstrong expected to return to 1992 to face Mahmud. Magnus wanted to stop Talpa. The Harbinger kids expected to return to their own time.

There would be no reason in the story for any of them to be transported to 2008.

[yardstick]

In the quotes above, Shooter is saying he would begin again with Unity #1 and go from there. None of the characters you have mentioned would substantially impact a reboot from Unity #1 (comparing the A&A HC), except for Solar. I am sure Shooter would be able to write neglecting Solar, notwithstanding his A&A HC appearance.

Shooter already did the "starting after Unity" idea in U2K, and it was a disaster.

That's my thought. U2K was more along the line of what Shooter was describing....

Chris

The implications of U2K from my understanding (from the interviews, board member analysis and reading what I have from U2K), is that Shooter was trying to fit the VH1, VH2 and VH3 continuities together, using the multiverse model. There is some suggestions/implications that Shooter may have placed booby traps within U2K to allow for an easier retcon back to VH1, as well as taking a subtle poke at those who took VH1 and twisted it into VH2/VH3

[cjv]

Sure it would.

They didn't walk out of the Lost Land, Solar transporteded them out, which is how Aric ended up in 408, Turok ended up in 1987, Elya ended up in the 31st Century, and the others returned to 1992 (except for Shadowman, who was the only one that walked in and walked out through the doorway. At the very least he would be guaranteed to come out in 92).

Their transportation was dictated by their desire of where they wanted to go, so why would they want to go to 2008?

Gilad would want to go to save Jillian. Archer and Armstrong expected to return to 1992 to face Mahmud. Magnus wanted to stop Talpa. The Harbinger kids expected to return to their own time.

There would be no reason in the story for any of them to be transported to 2008.

Why did Turok appear in 1987? He wanted to?

Why did Elya go back to the 30th centruy, when she wanted to go with Jack?

Did Aric go back to 409 because he wanted to (ie, talking about it right before he got transported) or because that was were he "belonged"?

There are some inconsitancies in how people were transported back. Was it because of desire (in which case Elya got shafted, and who knows why Turok "wanted" to go to 1987") or because of where they belonged chronologically (in which case why did Truok "belong" in 1987"?). Or both? Or neither?

The fact is that it could happen. The vast majority of people were transported by Solar not on a conscious, person by person basis, so mistakes could have happened.

You are absolutely correct about Shadowman though, he found his own way back. (Which always confused my...Elya was right next to him when she was transported...why wasn't Shadowman effected by the mass transportation?)

Chris

[yardstick]

Sure it would.

They didn't walk out of the Lost Land, Solar transported them out, which is how Aric ended up in 408, Turok ended up in 1987, Elya ended up in the 31st Century, and the others returned to 1992 (except for Shadowman, who was the only one that walked in and walked out through the doorway. At the very least he would be guaranteed to come out in 92).

Their transportation was dictated by their desire of where they wanted to go, so why would they want to go to 2008?

Gilad would want to go to save Jillian. Archer and Armstrong expected to return to 1992 to face Mahmud. Magnus wanted to stop Talpa. The Harbinger kids expected to return to their own time.

There would be no reason in the story for any of them to be transported to 2008.

During Unity, there is no part of the story which indicates that there were not other versions of the Heroes present in the Lost Land. There is no indication during Unity, for example, that the Rai that attacked Mothergod (for example) wasn't Sho Sugino. (from Secrets of the VU).

In fact I find the Unity story amazing simply because of the huge number of holes which allow for other characters (duplicates, or new) to be present. Rai 0 is another good example of a story which has so many holes it should be a brand of swiss cheese.

[ManofTheAtom]

Did Aric go back to 409 because he wanted to (ie, talking about it right before he got transported) or because that was were he "belonged"?

He was talking about it. Read the comic

There are some inconsitancies in how people were transported back. Was it because of desire (in which case Elya got shafted, and who knows why Turok "wanted" to go to 1987") or because of where they belonged chronologically (in which case why did Truok "belong" in 1987"?). Or both? Or neither?

Read the comic Their transportation was controlled by their subconciousess, and in Aric's case his conciousess.

The fact is that it could happen. The vast majority of people were transported by Solar not on a conscious, person by person basis, so mistakes could have happened.

No, it couldn't have happened. Read the comic

For them to be transported to 2008 their subconciousess or conciousess would need to guide them to that particular destination.

It was said that Turok ended in 1987 because of his exposure to futuristic tech. It could be that Elya was transported to the 31st Century due to her exposure to Shadowman.

Magnus', Solar's, Geoff's, Archer's Armstrong's, Gilad's, and the Harbinger kid's transportation to 1992 was guided by their conciousness. Magnus wanted to stop Talpa, Solar wanted to return to Gayle, A&A expected to fight Mahmud, Gilad wanted to save Jillian, and the kids wanted to go back home.

Read the comic

You are absolutely correct about Shadowman though, he found his own way back. (Which always confused me...Elya was right next to him when she was transported...why wasn't Shadowman effected by the mass transportation?)

[ManofTheAtom]

During Unity, there is no part of the story which indicates that there were not other versions of the Heroes present in the Lost Land. There is no indication during Unity that the Rai that attacked Mothergod (for example) wasn't Sho Sugino. (from Secrets of the VU).

huh?

Sure there is, it's right there in the comic.

The Rai that Mothergod killed was the one that went to the Lost Land with Magnus.

I just checked it and it's clear as water that the Rai that died could have only been Tohru.

You two really need to read the comics again (or is it for the first time?)

In fact I find the Unity story amazing simply because of the huge number of holes which allow for other characters (duplicates, or new) to be present. Rai 0 is another good example of a story which has so many holes it should be a brand of swiss cheese.

Not really, no.

Except for the deaths of Shadowman and Archer, everything in Rai 0 was shown in other comics to have happened exactly as it as presented.

[QWfanSD]

Sure it would.

They didn't walk out of the Lost Land, Solar transported them out, which is how Aric ended up in 408, Turok ended up in 1987, Elya ended up in the 31st Century, and the others returned to 1992 (except for Shadowman, who was the only one that walked in and walked out through the doorway. At the very least he would be guaranteed to come out in 92).

Their transportation was dictated by their desire of where they wanted to go, so why would they want to go to 2008?

Gilad would want to go to save Jillian. Archer and Armstrong expected to return to 1992 to face Mahmud. Magnus wanted to stop Talpa. The Harbinger kids expected to return to their own time.

There would be no reason in the story for any of them to be transported to 2008.

During Unity, there is no part of the story which indicates that there were not other versions of the Heroes present in the Lost Land. There is no indication during Unity, for example, that the Rai that attacked Mothergod (for example) wasn't Sho Sugino. (from Secrets of the VU).

In fact I find the Unity story amazing simply because of the huge number of holes which allow for other characters (duplicates, or new) to be present. Rai 0 is another good example of a story which has so many holes it should be a brand of swiss cheese.

I did find Rai 0 in a quarter box when I was still reading comics and it was stupid to me. Why limit yourself to what a thoraway book says just keep it open and see what you come up with.

[ManofTheAtom]

Sure it would.

They didn't walk out of the Lost Land, Solar transported them out, which is how Aric ended up in 408, Turok ended up in 1987, Elya ended up in the 31st Century, and the others returned to 1992 (except for Shadowman, who was the only one that walked in and walked out through the doorway. At the very least he would be guaranteed to come out in 92).

Their transportation was dictated by their desire of where they wanted to go, so why would they want to go to 2008?

Gilad would want to go to save Jillian. Archer and Armstrong expected to return to 1992 to face Mahmud. Magnus wanted to stop Talpa. The Harbinger kids expected to return to their own time.

There would be no reason in the story for any of them to be transported to 2008.

During Unity, there is no part of the story which indicates that there were not other versions of the Heroes present in the Lost Land. There is no indication during Unity, for example, that the Rai that attacked Mothergod (for example) wasn't Sho Sugino. (from Secrets of the VU).

In fact I find the Unity story amazing simply because of the huge number of holes which allow for other characters (duplicates, or new) to be present. Rai 0 is another good example of a story which has so many holes it should be a brand of swiss cheese.

I did find Rai 0 in a quarter box when I was still reading comics and it was stupid to me. Why limit yourself to what a thoraway book says just keep it open and see what you come up with.

Because VALIANT did things different to DC and Marvel

[cjv]

Did Aric go back to 409 because he wanted to (ie, talking about it right before he got transported) or because that was were he "belonged"?

He was talking about it. Read the comic

Yes, I know he was talking about it. That's why I mentioned it.

What I am saying is was it his desire to go back to that time frame that casued him to be transported back there, or was it because somehow chronilogically he was supposed to be there?

If it was desire, then why didn't Elya's desire to be with Shadowman cause her to appear in his time frame? And why did Turok want to be in 1987?

Exposure to future tech? Technology that appeared in the year 4000 caused him to appear in the year 1987? Yeah, that makes sense. If you want a ridiculous explanation, look no further than that!

And Elya's desire to be with Shadowman....caused her NOT to be with Shadowman? Again, that makes no sense whatsoever.

[For them to be transported to 2008 their subconciousess or conciousess would need to guide them to that particular destination.

Just like Elya's and Turok's subconscious led them to their destinations? Yeah, right.

Face it, people were transported back to further the storylines, with a slight attempt being made to explain why some people were being transported to various time (but the explanation wasn't very consistant).

Given that the explanation wasn't consistant, you could easily have the heroes transported back to 2008. Heck..."the heroes exposure to future technology caused them to appear in 2008 instead of 1992". It worked for Turok, why not other characters?

You are absolutely correct about Shadowman though, he found his own way back. (Which always confused me...Elya was right next to him when she was transported...why wasn't Shadowman effected by the mass transportation?)

This is what I mean. The "explanation" was applied randomly and in the case of Shadowman, not applied at all. He was in the lost land when others were being transported, but he wasn't...


Chris

[QWfanSD]

Sure it would.

They didn't walk out of the Lost Land, Solar transported them out, which is how Aric ended up in 408, Turok ended up in 1987, Elya ended up in the 31st Century, and the others returned to 1992 (except for Shadowman, who was the only one that walked in and walked out through the doorway. At the very least he would be guaranteed to come out in 92).

Their transportation was dictated by their desire of where they wanted to go, so why would they want to go to 2008?

Gilad would want to go to save Jillian. Archer and Armstrong expected to return to 1992 to face Mahmud. Magnus wanted to stop Talpa. The Harbinger kids expected to return to their own time.

There would be no reason in the story for any of them to be transported to 2008.

During Unity, there is no part of the story which indicates that there were not other versions of the Heroes present in the Lost Land. There is no indication during Unity, for example, that the Rai that attacked Mothergod (for example) wasn't Sho Sugino. (from Secrets of the VU).

In fact I find the Unity story amazing simply because of the huge number of holes which allow for other characters (duplicates, or new) to be present. Rai 0 is another good example of a story which has so many holes it should be a brand of swiss cheese.

I did find Rai 0 in a quarter box when I was still reading comics and it was stupid to me. Why limit yourself to what a thoraway book says just keep it open and see what you come up with.

Because VALIANT did things different to DC and Marvel

I thought they redid all the characters to new updated versions for the new books dont marvel and dc do that all the time.

[yardstick]

During Unity, there is no part of the story which indicates that there were not other versions of the Heroes present in the Lost Land. There is no indication during Unity that the Rai that attacked Mothergod (for example) wasn't Sho Sugino. (from Secrets of the VU).

huh?

Sure there is, it's right there in the comic.

The Rai that Mothergod killed was the one that went to the Lost Land with Magnus.

I just checked it and it's clear as water that the Rai that died could have only been Tohru.

You two really need to read the comics again (or is it for the first time?)

In fact I find the Unity story amazing simply because of the huge number of holes which allow for other characters (duplicates, or new) to be present. Rai 0 is another good example of a story which has so many holes it should be a brand of swiss cheese.

Not really, no.

Except for the deaths of Shadowman and Archer, everything in Rai 0 was shown in other comics to have happened exactly as it as presented.

Events shown in the comics do not necessarily preclude other events from happening between the panels (as it were).

Unity shows that a Rai attacked Mothergod, not necessarily Tohru. Can you explain Secrets of the VU where it says that Sho was going to the Lost Land?

Oh, and it is "read them again" not "read them for the first time". FYI

[yardstick]

I thought they redid all the characters to new updated versions for the new books dont marvel and dc do that all the time.

Marvel and DC frequently retcon/reboot their stories so that new readers do not have to go back and get 168 (or in Fantastic Four's case 400+) back issues just to keep up with what is going on now. Or in order to explain anomalies (or create more anomalies). Take for example the spiderman movies with the organic webshooters, versus the comics with the mechanical webshooters.

[ManofTheAtom]

What I am saying is was it his desire to go back to that time frame that casued him to be transported back there, or was it because somehow chronilogically he was supposed to be there?

How does something chronologically belong to an specific time period/era?

What determines that? Is it a physical component or a mental one?

If physical, what is it about the body that determines to which time period it belongs to? Is it the contents of one's stomach (i.e. if you drink mead and mutt you must be a Viking and belong in the 5th Century, but if you eat McDonalds and DQ's Blizzards you belong in the 20th?)

What happens when physical attributes that determine to which time period your body chronologically belongs to overlap?

For instance, Big Macs (and I'm using food as a proxy, it could be any kind of physical attribute other than what one eats, like medicines that one is injected with to fight specific viruses) have existed for the last 25-30 years, so what era/time period do you belong to? The 1970's, the 1980's, the 1990's, or the 21st Century?

If it is a mental attribute, what determines it? Exposure to certain ideas, like if you know of rotary phones you belong in the early 20th Century but if you're aware of IPhones you belong in the 21st?

Is it a cellular component? And if so, what determines to what era those cells belong to?

Is it an energy component, like tachyons or some other form of particles infused in your body doing for you what carbon 14 does? (that sounds too much like sci fi to me, but I could be wrong).

So, what determines how something chronologically belongs to an specific time period/era, and how does it apply to Aric, Turok, and Elya?

If it was desire, then why didn't Elya's desire to be with Shadowman cause her to appear in his time frame? And why did Turok want to be in 1987?

It be paradoxical, but maybe Elya's desire to be with Shadowman interacted with Solar's energy in a way that sent her to a specific moment in time when the Cult of Shadowman would exist.

Exposure to future tech? Technology that appeared in the year 4000 caused him to appear in the year 1987? Yeah, that makes sense. If you want a ridiculous explanation, look no further than that!

Exposure to future tech changed Turok's way of thinking, making it so that his brain (his conciousness) did no longer chronologically belong in his original time period.

Just like Elya's and Turok's subconscious led them to their destinations? Yeah, right.

Face it, people were transported back to further the storylines, with a slight attempt being made to explain why some people were being transported to various time (but the explanation wasn't very consistant).

Let's focus on what happened based solely on the character's perspective and not the "metatextual", as they call it, aspect of "furthering storylines".

Given that the explanation wasn't consistant, you could easily have the heroes transported back to 2008. Heck..."the heroes exposure to future technology caused them to appear in 2008 instead of 1992". It worked for Turok, why not other characters?

The transportation WAS consistant, as except for Aric (who wished to go to 409), Elya (who found herself in an era devoted to Shadowman), and Turok (whose mind no longer belonged to the 18th Century), everyone returned home.

This tends to be a moot point as we're forgetting that not only does the A&A hardcover contain the two Unity chapters but it also contains the four issues that came after them, which showed A&A in 1992.

Magnus returned to the 41st Century and Solar (with Geoff) went back to 1992, but we'll ignore those since VEI might not be able to use them.

Rai died in the Lost Land, X-O Manowar wished to go to 408 AD, and Shadowman swam back to 1992.

That leaves A&A, Gilad, and the Harbinger kids as the only ones whose Solar energy might possibly push toward 2008 (that is, of the eight VALIANT titles that took place during Unity, these would be the only three which could conceivable take place in 2008).

HOWEVER, as said above, the A&A hardcover shows us that the duo will return to Earth in 1992.

That leaves Gilad and the Harbinger Kids... what possible reason could there be for them to be transported to 2008? For one thing, Gilad would want to go back to rescue Jillian, right?

This is what I mean. The "explanation" was applied randomly and in the case of Shadowman, not applied at all. He was in the lost land when others were being transported, but he wasn't...

Solar "I've returned Magnus to 4001, Geoff."

Solar: "This'll be risky, but I'll have to blanket the entire Lost Land with an energy field -- and allow it to penetrate those who are left. Their own conciousness leading them in their directions home.

After everyone (the VALIANT heroes except for Shadowman) vanished.

Solar: "Now-- let's get everyone else out of here. There are all the ones that Pierce brought with her from 4001 AD. They're next!"

This is when Elya vanished.

Now we know WHY Elya vanished. The question is, why didn't Shadowman vanish when Solar sent the others away?

It could be because, unlike everyone else, Shadowman arrived on his own.

Think about it.

Geoff used Solar's hand to bring the heroes to the Lost Land, while Erica used her own powers to bring everyone else there.

What if the reason Solar was able to send everyone except for Shadowman to different time periods was because, unlike Jack, everyone else had been exposed to Solar and Erica's energies that transported them to the Lost Land?

[ManofTheAtom]

I thought they redid all the characters to new updated versions for the new books dont marvel and dc do that all the time.

That was Fabian Nicieza's doing. He believed that doing that would attract Batman and X-Men readers that liked that kind of stuff.

He was wrong. The new readers never came and the ones he had from the original VU left.

[ManofTheAtom]

Events shown in the comics do not necessarily preclude other events from happening between the panels (as it were).

Unity shows that a Rai attacked Mothergod, not necessarily Tohru. Can you explain Secrets of the VU where it says that Sho was going to the Lost Land?

Oh, and it is "read them again" not "read them for the first time". FYI

So what you're suggesting is that, even though before he died Rai told Magnus to remember that he kept his pledge (one he made issues earlier), and that despite the continuity from panel to panel that consistantly shows that the Rai that died was actually the same Rai that came to the Lost Land with Magnus, somehow between the panel after Rai told Magnus that, he was replaced with the other Rai?

You must be aware that your suggestions lacks any sort of facts to support it, right?

Btw, in Secrets Sho was working WITH Mothergod, not against her.

If you're looking for ideas for untold stories, then offer ones that don't contradict what has been shown, but ones that were not shown

Maybe Sho and Tohru fought each other, the good Rai vs the bad Rai, and maybe Tohru killed Sho and gave him a chance to redeem himself.

Who knows. That story hasn't been told.

The death of Tohru was told, and there is nothing to suggest that he wasn't the one that died.

[yardstick]

What if the reason Solar was able to send everyone except for Shadowman to different time periods was because, unlike Jack, everyone else had been exposed to Solar and Erica's energies that transported them to the Lost Land?

This is a better explanation of why everyone went back to their own time.