Another reason the Paramount news is good for Valiant

greg · Post by **greg** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:45 pm

Paramount has acquired the rights to Harbinger.

As we know, Paramount is a major movie studio,
with the financial means to handle any budget size.

So, Paramount wants (and got) Harbinger...
what does that mean for the Valiant universe at large?

Here's the thing I've been thinking lately...
when we look at which Valiant books lasted
the longest (most issues by title)...
Harbinger doesn't even rank in the Top 5.

Most issues by title (Valiant 1991-1996)
(ignoring the #0 issues and/or unnumbered books/variants)
1) X-O Manowar - 68 issues
2) Magnus - 64 issues
3) Solar - 60 issues
4) Bloodshot - 51 issues
5) Eternal Warrior - 50 issues
6) Turok - 47 issues
7) Shadowman - 43 issues
8) Harbinger - 41 issues - movie rights acquired by Paramount
9) Rai - 33 issues
10) HARDCorps - 30 issues
11) Archer & Armstrong - 26 issues
12) Ninjak - 26 issues
13) Secret Weapons - 21 issues
14) Dr. Mirage - 18 issues
15) Timewalker - 15 issues
16) Visitor - 13 issues
17) Armorines - 12 issues
18) PsiLords - 10 issues
19) Geomancer - 8 issues

...so... if Paramount wants the #8 title...
isn't that good news for all the other titles above,
and possibly even a few below?

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:49 pm

That is assuming that something positive comes from a 'movie'.

I don't even think that Harbinger was one of the more 'popular' of the books when they came out. How many folks here list Harbinger as their favorite Valiant comic ?

I don't see how the number of issues makes for any kind of ranking...

greg · Post by **greg** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:52 pm

Knightt wrote:That is assuming that something positive comes from a 'movie'.

The positive things are already coming, just from the announcement.

If you're hoping that Valiant can be BIG again,
having Paramount pick up the rights to one of the
mid-tier books is HUGELY positive.

Knightt wrote: I don't even think that Harbinger was one of the more 'popular' of the books when they came out. How many folks here list Harbinger as their favorite Valiant comic ?

Exactly the point. If #8 is good enough for Paramount...
then what are numbers 1 through 7? Chopped liver?

Their future is at least as bright as Harbinger... if not more so.

Knightt wrote:I don't see how the number of issues makes for any kind of ranking...

Books that sell vs. books that don't. That's the ranking.

greg · Post by **greg** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:00 pm

I am completely confused how ANY Valiant fan can be "unaffected"
by the Paramount news. Seriously.

Valiant was dead. DEAD. In 2004, Acclaim was dead. Valiant was in limbo,
and we hadn't seen a single Valiant product in 3 years, if not 8 years
depending on what you're counting.

A DEAD UNIVERSE. Nothing happening. No movement. No pulse.

In 2008, not only is Valiant back... PARAMOUNT wants in. On a mid-tier Valiant title.

That's like finding out that the 8th best player on your sports team has been drafted.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE OTHER SEVEN? The sky's the limit.

Who is Valiant supposed to sell their products to? A couple thousand fanboys?
How about the possibility of selling to a few million OTHER people?

How could Valiant possibly reach a few million OTHER people?

Enter Paramount. HUGE news. VERY positive. No matter how you slice it,
Valiant has benefitted incredibly by even the MENTION of Paramount.

If the project never happens... if there's never even a movie...
There's still Paramount, acquiring the rights to Valiant's mid-tier title.
No matter what.

Let the games begin.

wrunow · Post by **wrunow** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:03 pm

Knightt wrote:That is assuming that something positive comes from a 'movie'.

I don't even think that Harbinger was one of the more 'popular' of the books when they came out. How many folks here list Harbinger as their favorite Valiant comic ?

I don't see how the number of issues makes for any kind of ranking...

Harbinger was/is my favorite title until issue 25. Harbinger was to me the ultimate expression of Jim Shooter's "VALIANT vision".

I was surprised that a team book was the first picked up as they are harder to do and require more background work.

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:06 pm

The positive things are already coming, just from the announcement.

In your opinion. Odd how one of the owners is a graduate of film making. I think that there are folks here that would have been more excited about information that regard the comics instead of someone buying the rights to a film. It DOES bring in money though...

Nah, still not buying it.

If you're hoping that Valiant can be BIG again,
having Paramount pick up the rights to one of the
mid-tier books is HUGELY positive.

Again, in your opinion. I prefer comics of a movie ANY day of the week.

Exactly the point. If #8 is good enough for Paramount...
then what are numbers 1 through 7? Chopped liver?

Their future is at least as bright as Harbinger... if not more so.

Chopped liver... yeah that about sums Harbinger up. Movies are VERY expensive to produce. I would think that Paramount would rather have the roast beef than the chopped liver with their first go at a universe that has not seen the light of day in years.

Books that sell vs. books that don't. That's the ranking.

No, it looks like you made a list of how many issues were printed of each title. How does that rank in how popular they are.

Dare I say... a VALIANT try ?

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:08 pm

wrunow wrote:
Knightt wrote:That is assuming that something positive comes from a 'movie'.

I don't even think that Harbinger was one of the more 'popular' of the books when they came out. How many folks here list Harbinger as their favorite Valiant comic ?

I don't see how the number of issues makes for any kind of ranking...
Harbinger was/is my favorite title until issue 25. Harbinger was to me the ultimate expression of Jim Shooter's "VALIANT vision".

I was surprised that a team book was the first picked up as they are harder to do and require more background work.

okilee dokilee, we have our first Harbinger fan... any other takers ?

greg · Post by **greg** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:09 pm

Greg: This Harbinger/Paramount connection is great news!

Knightt: No. I don't see it. Millions of people seeing
a Harbinger movie doesn't matter. I want VEI to
sell 5,000 copies of a comic book line instead.

schi0249 · Post by **schi0249** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:09 pm

Harbinger was my least favorite early Valiant series. And I am hugely excited. Yes, material gets optioned all the time. But, that injected cash into VEI. Even IF a movie doesn't get made, its a positive for Valiant fans.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:10 pm

The reason why Paramount picked up the rights to do a Harbinger movie is because, of all the titles VALIANT published... it was the only one that had the Enterprise and a Klingon Bird of Prey in it!

Not to mention that Faith is an uber Trekie.

I've always said that VALIANT was like Star Trek, and that it only needed one "shuttle" named after it in order to come back.

How serendipidous that, of all the studios in existence, it was Paramount, the home to Star Trek, that got the license to do the first VALIANT movie

Hopefully the movie will be VALIANT's shuttle.

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:10 pm

greg wrote:I am completely confused how ANY Valiant fan can be "unaffected"
by the Paramount news. Seriously.

Valiant was dead. DEAD. In 2004, Acclaim was dead. Valiant was in limbo,
and we hadn't seen a single Valiant product in 3 years, if not 8 years
depending on what you're counting.

A DEAD UNIVERSE. Nothing happening. No movement. No pulse.

In 2008, not only is Valiant back... PARAMOUNT wants in. On a mid-tier Valiant title.

That's like finding out that the 8th best player on your sports team has been drafted.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE OTHER SEVEN? The sky's the limit.

Who is Valiant supposed to sell their products to? A couple thousand fanboys?
How about the possibility of selling to a few million OTHER people?

How could Valiant possibly reach a few million OTHER people?

Enter Paramount. HUGE news. VERY positive. No matter how you slice it,
Valiant has benefitted incredibly by even the MENTION of Paramount.

If the project never happens... if there's never even a movie...
There's still Paramount, acquiring the rights to Valiant's mid-tier title.
No matter what.

Let the games begin.

My name is Greg Holland and I personally endorse this commercial.

greg · Post by **greg** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:20 pm

greg wrote:Greg: This Harbinger/Paramount connection is great news!

Knightt: No. I don't see it. Millions of people seeing
a Harbinger movie doesn't matter. I want VEI to
sell 5,000 copies of a comic book line instead.

Knightt · Post by **Knightt** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:27 pm

greg wrote:Greg: This Harbinger/Paramount connection is great news!

Knightt: No. I don't see it. Millions of people seeing
a Harbinger movie doesn't matter. I want VEI to
sell 5,000 copies of a comic book line instead.

You can roll your 'eyes' all you want but fact is, 'rights to properties' are sold all the time... and never see the light of day.

This stuff is exactly what I was afraid of when I attended the 'panel' in NYC. When I heard 'mass media'...

Hey, cool... make a movie. When I first joined this site it was called VALIANTcomics.com. We went to VALIANTfans.com. Down the road, who knows ? VALIANTmovie.com.

I am disappointed that we have had more 'quoted words spoken' from 'management' about Paramount than we have comic books, with the exception of putting out titles by 'years end'. No titles, no plans... but seeing as how there is 'movie making' in the blood. Well I just wonder at the initial purchase of Valiant in the first place. Jim Shooter had a dream.... to make good comics, write good stories, and the rest would come. Action figures, merchandising and all that comes with that.

The comics came first.

No worries... I wont rattle your chain any longer. I have said my peace and I know that when you start throwing out the

it's time to unwad the panties.

I am walking away from this one... I have stated my opinion and said what I wanted to say.

Regularly scheduled programming will begin 'after a word from our sponsor'.... (cue the music)

Be well.

tarheelmarine · Post by **tarheelmarine** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:28 pm

Pretty cool news!

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:35 pm

It is HUGE news that a MAJOR STUDIO has picked up an option on an essentially DEAD comic book. This option will give CASH to the company that makes the books. This is good for the books. This is doubly good IF the movie comes out, as the books will benefit. There are next to NO downsides to this, unless the film is made and is a huge, stinking flop. I think that since the name of the company is VALIANT ENTERTAINMENT and said company is described as being "character-based" that a lack of comics, for a while, is not too shocking. I want new books too but I'd rather wait and get it right than rush and end up with something worse than burnt liver.

greg · Post by **greg** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:36 pm

Knight...

I understand your point. I want comics, too... but Valiant won't survive on comics alone.

No company can survive on comics alone.

If Valiant is to survive, they've got to make money somewhere.
Marvel went from nearly bankrupt to a $2Billion company because of movies.
http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=MVL&time=all

Valiant either makes money AND produces comics, or they do NEITHER.
Producing comics alone won't pay the bills.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:45 pm

greg wrote:Knight...

I understand your point. I want comics, too... but Valiant won't survive on comics alone.

No company can survive on comics alone.

If Valiant is to survive, they've got to make money somewhere.
Marvel went from nearly bankrupt to a $2Billion company because of movies.
http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=MVL&time=all

Valiant either makes money AND produces comics, or they do NEITHER.
Producing comics alone won't pay the bills.

What he said

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:23 pm

After fighting with vip all this time, I think it's great that VEI can finally make a return on it's investement via a movie rights deal.

Just think, a few short months ago we didn't even know if the vip battle would go on for another 3 years or more. Now, we have a movie to possibly look forward to and the announcement of new books by the end of the year.

Go Valiant!

Spagg · Post by **Spagg** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:51 pm

I think it is great news. Of course I want new comics asap, but I also want the comics around for the long haul. A movie can definitely help make this happen.

TKWill · Post by **TKWill** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:54 pm

I'm excited fr the news, but Harbinger wouldn't have been my first pick if I was Paramount. Shadowman, EW, and Bloodshot would all be neat when adapted. I am just afraid that the majority of the public are not going to see Harbinger for what it is and they will think it is an X-Men knock-off. These stories are original enough that I think they would stand alone with little comparison to any thing else.

I see both sides of this. I want comics and the money that Paramount paid just to have the rights for the movie goes a long way to bringing us new books. I just wish that VEI would bring information regarding the "new titles by the end of the year" comment from the movie press release.

JustCallMeAric · Post by **JustCallMeAric** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:00 pm

I think itll be good stuff. Harbinger is the easiest to make into a movie so I wouldnt read too much into it.

ncameron · Post by **ncameron** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:27 pm

I just assumed that since the Harbinger team dynamic was similar to the X-Men or as Paramount sees it "The 750+ million box-office X-Men", with ongoing Spin-off movies in development. You don't have to train the world to hard to understand that Harbinger=Mutant.

Though I would not look at Harbinger as the 8th most important brand. It may not have had the length of the X-O or Magnus, but I doubt anyone on this board thinks fondly of any Magnus story that took place after issue 38, or especially after 55, so the length of the series is irrelevant.

Harbinger is the most important brand, because anyone with a passing knowledge of comics from the early 90's knows of that book. In terms of Hollywood its the easiest sell.

Regardless a Harbinger movie is exciting for VEI because movie money is way bigger than comic book sales. Marvels profitability in the early 2000 was strictly due to bonus payouts for the extremely large box office of X-Men and Spider-man from Fox and Sony repectively. With movie money also comes, toy money, t-shirt money and even more importantly DVD money.

While the movies may not lead someone to a comic shop to see where it started it will ensure that the company's that create the comics have the funds to keep doing so. Think of going on free comic book day on the opening weekend of "Harbinger: The Movie" and getting your FCBD version of Harby 1, thats all the motivation i need to get excited about this movie.

-neil

400yrs · Post by **400yrs** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:31 pm

greg wrote: I understand your point. I want comics, too... but Valiant won't survive on comics alone.

Yep.

greg wrote:No company can survive on comics alone.

I'd disagree with this. See Image Comics. Granted, their business model is entirely different, but nonetheless, comics alone can work.

greg wrote:Valiant either makes money AND produces comics, or they do NEITHER.
Producing comics alone won't pay the bills.

For Valiant, yep.

Smashey · Post by **Smashey** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:13 pm

It is huge news. Im excited. And also kinda "bleh" because i dont have the hoards of the books I would like to own before pricing gets crazy (already happening)

As far as them grabbing a mid tier comic, I think alot of that influence is probably because the cast will be a fresh young cast. There would be more appeal to the younger audience (who in turn spend the most on this type of stuff), rather than doing a magnus movie on a middle aged man.

So while it may be a mid tier comic, it has the most potential of being a blockbuster hit.

Personally, I would rather see a Shadowman movie, or a Bloodshot movie...but, will that be a movie the whole family can go see? Or would that be a movie that a slew of teenagers can go see without an adult being present? I dont think so.

Throw a whole cast of young male and female heart throbs in there, and it will be big.

That being said. Paramount picking it up is huge. If its successful (which I dont see why it wouldnt be, comic movies are HOT), VEI is gonna go bigtime.

If it fails, I doubt another Valiant movie will be in the midst. And VEI will be just another Indy company, feeding us old Valiant junkies until they fade away.

Greg is right. They cannot survive on comics alone. The competition is too big. And it is already an uphill battle. No matter how excited this community is, the industry on a whole is not. The comic shops and collectors who were dissapointed majorly by Valiant in the past are NOT going to push this stuff. With a blockbuster box office hit, they are gonna have to jump on the bandwagon and push it. VEI NEEDS this. I think it can seriously make or break them.

With a successful movie comes toys. With a successful movie and toys comes back issue frenzies. With back issue frenzies comes new series.

With a failed attempt comes more dissapointment, and less orders on new product. (And no toys)

StarBrand · Post by **StarBrand** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:20 pm

Daniel Jackson wrote:After fighting with vip all this time, I think it's great that VEI can finally make a return on it's investement via a movie rights deal.

Just think, a few short months ago we didn't even know if the vip battle would go on for another 3 years or more. Now, we have a movie to possibly look forward to and the announcement of new books by the end of the year.

Go Valiant!

It's a good point, and a movie option is something that might've helped Defiant rebound from their lawsuit and survive.