The Economy

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:09 pm

Sooooo.....

The economy's gettin' scary....stuff's happening that we haven't seen since the late 70's.....gold's nearly $1000/oz, after being around $250/oz in early '02. Oil's over $100/bbl.

In this climate, TANGIBLE assets are supposed to be prime investments, as folks run away from the stock market and other intangibles...

Gold, silver....

But....has anyone noticed that prices on comics....also tangible assets....have fared the same?

From what I've seen, prices are DOWN across the board...is this just the calm before the storm? Are people going to run to comics to shield them from inflation....?

Or will comics be ignored, and thought of as a "luxury item"?

Thoughts?

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:13 pm

How's "Art" in general doing?

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:16 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:How's "Art" in general doing?

Fine art?

It will follow gold/silver/precious metals shortly. Fine Art always does well in recession.

X-O HoboJoe · Post by **X-O HoboJoe** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:19 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote:How's "Art" in general doing?
Fine art?

It will follow gold/silver/precious metals shortly. Fine Art always does well in recession.

Being honest, I've noticed the trend in comics was not currently in accordance with gold/silver/precious metals.

Which sucks.

I've always thought that the final harbinger of a poor economic forcast was large numbers of people investing in guns and ammo.

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:25 pm

I work in a store where we sell impulse items, luxury items in the sense that they are not necessary for living - we don't sell gas or groceries. We sell firearms, hunting supplies, fishing tackle, a few small boats, archery stuff and what have you.

I ran my feet off over the weekend. I sold so many pistols that I was literally dreaming (nightmares?) about having to sell pistols and I haven't done that in a while.

The inflation is off-putting, but money is certainly flowing in my local economy.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:01 pm

Chiclo wrote:I work in a store where we sell impulse items, luxury items in the sense that they are not necessary for living - we don't sell gas or groceries. We sell firearms, hunting supplies, fishing tackle, a few small boats, archery stuff and what have you.

I ran my feet off over the weekend. I sold so many pistols that I was literally dreaming (nightmares?) about having to sell pistols and I haven't done that in a while.

The inflation is off-putting, but money is certainly flowing in my local economy.

The inflation is driving me nuts....I've not seen this kind of inflation in my adult lifetime.

And, personally, it's the INFLATION that hits me where it hurts. $6.39 for two gallons of milk, when I used to be able to buy them for 99 cents each on sale?

$3.50 now for a gallon of gas?

$3/lb for lettuce?

Even the 99 cent store has raised prices....they just did it sneakily.

I buy rubbing alcohol to clean my toothbrushes, sterilize stuff, and put in my gas tank when I go for a smog check.

Where I COULD buy a 70% 16 fluid oz bottle, now it's 50% 12 oz bottles.....59 cents each.

Where some stuff (yogurt, for instance) was 3 for 99 cents....now it's 39 cents each.

And....one of my absolute most favorite treats in the whole entire world....sweetened condensed milk....which is just AWFUL for me, but tastes SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good....disappeared from the store entirely.

This inflation is getting out of hand, and will start to put a huge muzzle on the economy (and already has) if it's not put in check. There's really no such thing as DEflation, unless things are REALLY, REALLY bad....and at THAT point, you aren't worrying about lower prices on milk, TRUST me.....

Inflation hasn't been this bad since the late 1970's......

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:02 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:
ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote:How's "Art" in general doing?
Fine art?

It will follow gold/silver/precious metals shortly. Fine Art always does well in recession.

Being honest, I've noticed the trend in comics was not currently in accordance with gold/silver/precious metals.

Which sucks.

Yeah, me too, which is why I posted this. People getting laid off, work disappearing....if I can't run and hide behind the shelter of my tangible assets, I'm screwed. I have almost ZERO gold, and only about 50 ounces or so, in various forms, of silver.

Yikes.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:03 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:
ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote:How's "Art" in general doing?
Fine art?

It will follow gold/silver/precious metals shortly. Fine Art always does well in recession.

Being honest, I've noticed the trend in comics was not currently in accordance with gold/silver/precious metals.
.

And, keeping in mind, Fine Art is paintings and whatnot...not comics.

Smashey · Post by **Smashey** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:06 pm

Economy sucks. Not really comic related. But my family business is warranty repair work for furniture factories all over Ca. (Yes, ZWH, if you buy some furniture and have a prob either me or my father will probly be in your home).

No money= no houses being sold. No houses being sold= no one buying new furniture for their new homes. Its a killer. Business has slowed so much.

greg · Post by **greg** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:08 pm

X-O HoboJoe wrote:I've always thought that the final harbinger...

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:13 pm

greg wrote:
X-O HoboJoe wrote:I've always thought that the final harbinger...

Yes, but is the newsstand price $2.75....?

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:15 pm

Smashey wrote:Economy sucks. Not really comic related. But my family business is warranty repair work for furniture factories all over Ca. (Yes, ZWH, if you buy some furniture and have a prob either me or my father will probly be in your home).

I don't buy new furniture.

I'm cheap like that.

The only piece of new furniture I've ever bought for myself was my desk....that $125 jobbie from Staples that fits in your corner.

I love it.

The bed, the couch, the coffee table, the dinner table....all second hand.

imagesowner2 · Post by **imagesowner2** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:18 pm

you need to read C. Rozanski's column in the CBG this month. it is on this very subject.

Ryan

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:29 pm

imagesowner2 wrote:you need to read C. Rozanski's column in the CBG this month. it is on this very subject.

Ryan

Hey, thanks for the head's up R....I don't get CBG, though....is it online?

Love him or hate him, I respect Chuck's opinions more than just about any other retailer in the industry.

mavros · Post by **mavros** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:58 pm

People are cashing out on their collection to pay the mortgage bill on a depreciating house, cover ever rising expenses from the rise in oil, etc. The rise in supply is leading to lower prices.

Could be a good buying opportunity if you have an optimistic view that the comic market will bounce back when the economy eventually does. But judging by the ever dwindling numbers of readers, I wouldn't bank on that. There's a lot better investment options on the radar before comics...

daydreamscomics · Post by **daydreamscomics** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:48 pm

i'm selling tons of my comics, thought not to pay bills. decided to go the trade route on a lot of stuff i read

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrp ... keyourself

i can't say the economy has impacted things at our shop. our monthly sales totals keep going up. it's been over a year and half since we moved, and we are crushing last year's numbers. it's kinda scary...

wallywest · Post by **wallywest** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:10 pm

I think that comic prices will generally suffer in the short term. High end stuff might see a small boost as some big money guys decide to go the collectibles route as opposed to securities. But, that will only be on Golden Age and high grade Silver Age.

The "normal" stuff that is bought on a "normal" guy's discretionary income is going to go down. Get ready to buy if you can continue to devote some cash to our addiction....er, hobby.

As for the economy, it is kind of scary right now. But, I think people have a very unrealistic view when they talk about a recession like it is some huge anomoly or problem in our economy. A healthy free economy will have ups and downs. It is inevitable. Fortunately, we have an economy that is more up than down over any period of real length in our nation's history. Some ups will be better than others, and some downs will hurt more than others, but without both, our economy would be built on something artificial.

TKWill · Post by **TKWill** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:10 pm

Chiclo wrote:I work in a store where we sell impulse items, luxury items in the sense that they are not necessary for living - we don't sell gas or groceries. We sell firearms, hunting supplies, fishing tackle, a few small boats, archery stuff and what have you.

I ran my feet off over the weekend. I sold so many pistols that I was literally dreaming (nightmares?) about having to sell pistols and I haven't done that in a while.

The inflation is off-putting, but money is certainly flowing in my local economy.

From what I am hearing Texas is one of the few places that isn't seeing the crunch. Oil is once again king and our economy is thriving on what is killing other local economies. Heck they even started pumping in PA again from what I heard (Jedi may have to confirm this).

Here is another funny bit of information the Midland store for the retail company I work for was notoriously the lowest performing store in our district as far as sales for about eight years. In the last two years not only have they scratched their way from the bottom but they are tops on the list. They can't even staff their store properly because 18 YO kids can make more than the $12.50 they are starting at out in the oil fields. When was the last time any retailer started kids with no retail experience at $12.50 in small towns. They are even letting vets from stores sign up for "tours"; one year, minimum 15% raise, you can leave as soon as your year is up and keep the raise, so long as you can last a year. It's crazy. They did more last Saturday than we do on Saturdays in the summer and this was February. Midland/Odessa is booming like it's the 70's and 80's.

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:42 pm

TKWill wrote:
Chiclo wrote:I work in a store where we sell impulse items, luxury items in the sense that they are not necessary for living - we don't sell gas or groceries. We sell firearms, hunting supplies, fishing tackle, a few small boats, archery stuff and what have you.

I ran my feet off over the weekend. I sold so many pistols that I was literally dreaming (nightmares?) about having to sell pistols and I haven't done that in a while.

The inflation is off-putting, but money is certainly flowing in my local economy.
From what I am hearing Texas is one of the few places that isn't seeing the crunch. Oil is once again king and our economy is thriving on what is killing other local economies. Heck they even started pumping in PA again from what I heard (Jedi may have to confirm this).

Here is another funny bit of information the Midland store for the retail company I work for was notoriously the lowest performing store in our district as far as sales for about eight years. In the last two years not only have they scratched their way from the bottom but they are tops on the list. They can't even staff their store properly because 18 YO kids can make more than the $12.50 they are starting at out in the oil fields. When was the last time any retailer started kids with no retail experience at $12.50 in small towns. They are even letting vets from stores sign up for "tours"; one year, minimum 15% raise, you can leave as soon as your year is up and keep the raise, so long as you can last a year. It's crazy. They did more last Saturday than we do on Saturdays in the summer and this was February. Midland/Odessa is booming like it's the 70's and 80's.

Reminds me of bumper stickers I saw when I was very young.

"Dear Lord, just one more boom. I promise not to p*ss this one away."

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:51 pm

mavros wrote:People are cashing out on their collection to pay the mortgage bill on a depreciating house, cover ever rising expenses from the rise in oil, etc. The rise in supply is leading to lower prices.

Where is the rise in supply? eBay's current crop of comics are about the same as they usually have. Averages for the category are running at standard for the last several years.

I'm not so sure that it's a rise in supply, then, but quite the opposite: a drop in buyers.

wallywest · Post by **wallywest** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:54 pm

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:
mavros wrote:People are cashing out on their collection to pay the mortgage bill on a depreciating house, cover ever rising expenses from the rise in oil, etc. The rise in supply is leading to lower prices.
Where is the rise in supply? eBay's current crop of comics are about the same as they usually have. Averages for the category are running at standard for the last several years.

I'm not so sure that it's a rise in supply, then, but quite the opposite: a drop in buyers.

I agree 100%. I am the type that likes to turn around stuff I can get cheap "for the fun of it". But, I won't be doing much selling at this point. My last round of auctions did not go real well. I think sellers that don't have to sell will be replaced by ones who need some extra cash flow.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:57 pm

wallywest wrote:I think that comic prices will generally suffer in the short term. High end stuff might see a small boost as some big money guys decide to go the collectibles route as opposed to securities. But, that will only be on Golden Age and high grade Silver Age.

The "normal" stuff that is bought on a "normal" guy's discretionary income is going to go down. Get ready to buy if you can continue to devote some cash to our addiction....er, hobby.

As for the economy, it is kind of scary right now. But, I think people have a very unrealistic view when they talk about a recession like it is some huge anomoly or problem in our economy. A healthy free economy will have ups and downs. It is inevitable. Fortunately, we have an economy that is more up than down over any period of real length in our nation's history. Some ups will be better than others, and some downs will hurt more than others, but without both, our economy would be built on something artificial.

But it's important to understand that the bull market that started in 1982 was the longest in US history...so we've raised an entire generation of people who are completely unused to anything but. Not everyone survives recessions, and those who do not won't really care that there will be "ups and downs", y'know?

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:59 pm

TKWill wrote:
Chiclo wrote:I work in a store where we sell impulse items, luxury items in the sense that they are not necessary for living - we don't sell gas or groceries. We sell firearms, hunting supplies, fishing tackle, a few small boats, archery stuff and what have you.

I ran my feet off over the weekend. I sold so many pistols that I was literally dreaming (nightmares?) about having to sell pistols and I haven't done that in a while.

The inflation is off-putting, but money is certainly flowing in my local economy.
From what I am hearing Texas is one of the few places that isn't seeing the crunch. Oil is once again king and our economy is thriving on what is killing other local economies. Heck they even started pumping in PA again from what I heard (Jedi may have to confirm this).

Here is another funny bit of information the Midland store for the retail company I work for was notoriously the lowest performing store in our district as far as sales for about eight years. In the last two years not only have they scratched their way from the bottom but they are tops on the list. They can't even staff their store properly because 18 YO kids can make more than the $12.50 they are starting at out in the oil fields. When was the last time any retailer started kids with no retail experience at $12.50 in small towns.

But....inflation is eating that up. What good is $12.50/hr if it costs $13.00/hr to live....?

That's a general question, not specifically directed at Texas.

wallywest · Post by **wallywest** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:02 am

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:
wallywest wrote:I think that comic prices will generally suffer in the short term. High end stuff might see a small boost as some big money guys decide to go the collectibles route as opposed to securities. But, that will only be on Golden Age and high grade Silver Age.

The "normal" stuff that is bought on a "normal" guy's discretionary income is going to go down. Get ready to buy if you can continue to devote some cash to our addiction....er, hobby.

As for the economy, it is kind of scary right now. But, I think people have a very unrealistic view when they talk about a recession like it is some huge anomoly or problem in our economy. A healthy free economy will have ups and downs. It is inevitable. Fortunately, we have an economy that is more up than down over any period of real length in our nation's history. Some ups will be better than others, and some downs will hurt more than others, but without both, our economy would be built on something artificial.
But it's important to understand that the bull market that started in 1982 was the longest in US history...so we've raised an entire generation of people who are completely unused to anything but. Not everyone survives recessions, and those who do not won't really care that there will be "ups and downs", y'know?

Exactly the problem. We have a generation of young adults (I am one) who, by and large, have never known tough times. We are freaking spoiled. The inflation of the late 70s and early 80s is history. So are gas shortages, protracted Asian wars, and 18% morgage rates. People think I am crazy, but a good recession might be what we need to get these later generations off the couches

.

wallywest · Post by **wallywest** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:05 am

We are a country that spends more than we make. That goes for the individuals as well as the government. It is pathetic. Something drastic will have to happen to make fundamental changes to improve the long term health of our economy. I would gladly sign up for a significant recession now over a full on depression 15 years from now.