Shooter and the new Valiant

user1463 · Post by **user1463** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:48 pm

From reading the forum descriptions, this seemed like the best place to post this:

If Jim Shooter were brought in to construct "his" version of the original Valiant Universe beginning after Unity and ignoring everything that was originally published by Voyager and Acclaim after the crossover would you be down with it?

I think I would be. Such a move would delete some good stuff but also a crap-load of bad. There wouldn't be the need for a Unity 2000 type of deal to try to clean up all the muck before Valiant can really get started again.

Everything a new reader would need to know would be reprinted in those beautiful nifty hardcovers that would of course be advertised for purchase within the comics.

Problems would come up with Magnus and Solar. I don't think the new Valiant can reprint their own respective pre-Unity material but their appearances in other books doesn't seem to be a problem. I'm sure a Shooter led brain-trust would come up with a solution to work around the licensing issues.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:06 pm

Hmm... not really a spoiler type of thread so let's move this to General Discussion.

Now to reply to this question...

user1463 wrote:If Jim Shooter were brought in to construct "his" version of the original Valiant Universe beginning after Unity and ignoring everything that was originally published by Voyager and Acclaim after the crossover would you be down with it?

Sounds like a plan to me.

Elveen · Post by **Elveen** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:09 pm

Personally, I would pick Shoot as #1 in charge of the formation of the new Universe.

What ever he wanted to do..... I would be down with it.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:20 pm

if shooter is in im happy, everything he has done has been gold in my book

*SQUEE* · Post by ***SQUEE*** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:26 am

In a perfect world this would happen.

MoonChild · Post by **MoonChild** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:30 am

It's his universe. Why Not

Compromise is good too

TDarke · Post by **TDarke** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:40 am

I was under the impression that he was not interested in revisiting Valiant beyond the occasional throw away story like the one in the Harbinger HC?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:44 am

Picking up after Unity is no different than picking up after XO 68, there would still be cliffhangers left to resolve.

Instead of resolving the cliffhanger of Archer & Armstrong coming back from the Lost Land, they would need to resolve the cliffhanger of their fight with the Sect from issue 0.

Instead of resolving the cliffhanger of Magnus' death in Rai, they would need to resolve the cliffhanger of Japan's fall during Unity.

Instead of resolving the cliffhanger of Solar merging with the sun, they would need to resolve the cliffhanger of when he abandoned Gayle to go fight in Unity.

Instead of resolving the cliffhanger of XO's dream, they would need to resolve the cliffhanger of his going back to 408.

Instead of resolving the cliffhanger of the Harbinger killing Simon, they would need to resolve the cliffhanger of Kris abandoning her son.

Instead of resolving the cliffhanger of Magnus' death, they would need to resolve the cliffhanger of his fight with Talpa.

Instead of resolving the cliffhanger of Shadowman's jump, they would need to resolve the cliffhanger of Shadowman loosing Elya.

The only comic that did NOT end with a cliffhanger was Eternal Warrior, but if they picked it up after Unity, they would have to resolve the cliffhanger of what happened in his hotel room in issue 1.

The only difference between resolving the Unity cliffhangers and resolving the last issues, is that the Unity cliffhangers have already been resolved, and in most cases by Shooter himself, while the cliffhangers from the last issues have not.

There's no need to get replacement stories for comics that already came out. It be better to get new stories that don't exist to resolve stories that need to be resolved.

Fanboy375 · Post by **Fanboy375** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:08 am

but we will lose bloodshot (which shooter was going to call rising son per the previews solicitation), master darque, etc.

xodacia81 · Post by **xodacia81** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:20 am

Would we have to lose Bloodshot? I don't think we can, as Shooter had already established the link between Rai and Bloodshot, so...somewhere along the way, we'd get Bloodshot, at least in some form. For which I would be happy.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:41 am

Nope. From what I saw of VH-Shooter in U2K, it's no place I'd be interested in visiting for an extended period of time... Three issues were too many, IMO.

Fortunately, he seems quite content to take on the LSH at DC. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on that one.

BoH

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:36 am

BloodOfHeroes wrote:Nope. From what I saw of VH-Shooter in U2K, it's no place I'd be interested in visiting for an extended period of time... Three issues was too many, IMO.

Fortunately, he seems quite content to take on the LSH at DC. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on that one.

BoH

You're asking an artist to make a sculpture out of *SQUEE*.

Shooter may very well turn Waid's Legion into a Venus DeMilo, but it would still be a Venus made of *SQUEE*.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:40 am

ManofTheAtom wrote:You're asking an artist to make a sculpture out of *SQUEE*.

Shooter may very well turn Waid's Legion into a Venus DeMilo, but it would still be a Venus made of *SQUEE*.

Your opinion, and you're entitled to it.

It seems that Shooter's been complimentary to Waid's version, from what I've read. Different times call for different heroes. We can't really have a Luthor robot full of pre-programmed "Hate" tapes now, can we (old LSH story, for those not in the know). In many ways, LSH was rectonned for the same reason Shooter retconned Solar--the times had changed and the old heroes were no longer accurate.

BoH

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:43 am

BloodOfHeroes wrote:
ManofTheAtom wrote:You're asking an artist to make a sculpture out of *SQUEE*.

Shooter may very well turn Waid's Legion into a Venus DeMilo, but it would still be a Venus made of *SQUEE*.
Your opinion, and you're entitled to it.

It seems that Shooter's been complimentary to Waid's version, from what I've read. Different times call for different heroes. We can't really have a Luthor robot full of pre-programmed "Hate" tapes now, can we (old LSH story, for those not in the know). In many ways, LSH was rectonned for the same reason Shooter retconned Solar--the times had changed and the old heroes were no longer accurate.

BoH

Except of course that Waid's retcon is an imitation of the Legion that existed before Zero Hour.

Before Waid, the Legion was a group of beings from all over the universe.

You had aliens who looked like snakes, or aliens that looked like green monsters, or aliens that looked like insects.

With Waid, all you have is a group of white boys and girls, with a couple of token aliens and nothing more.

the Pre-Waid Legion was made up of a diverse group of individuals, while his Legion is a reflection of 1950's racism.

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:44 am

BloodOfHeroes wrote:Nope. From what I saw of VH-Shooter in U2K, it's no place I'd be interested in visiting for an extended period of time... Three issues were too many, IMO.

BoH

Don't forget that Jim had to ultimately bring together Acclaims end goal in Unity 2000. I'm pretty sure that if he had free reign to have done whatever he wanted things would've been a lot different.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:02 am

Daniel Jackson wrote:Don't forget that Jim had to ultimately bring together Acclaims end goal in Unity 2000. I'm pretty sure that if he had free reign to have done whatever he wanted things would've been a lot different.

I mean the much-heralded, "We're gonna see VH-0! What Shooter would have done, had ne not been ousted!" The Quasimodo-Harbinger world. meh.

BoH

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:03 am

BloodOfHeroes wrote:
Daniel Jackson wrote:Don't forget that Jim had to ultimately bring together Acclaims end goal in Unity 2000. I'm pretty sure that if he had free reign to have done whatever he wanted things would've been a lot different.
I mean the much-heralded, "We're gonna see VH-0! What Shooter would have done, had ne not been ousted!" The Quasimodo-Harbinger world. meh.

BoH

Shooter told me that that was Starlin's idea, same with Spider-Darque.

worldsbestcomics · Post by **worldsbestcomics** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:00 pm

If Shooter was back, I would be happy regardless of whether he scrapped everything after Unity or started over after X-O 68.

The Harbinger · Post by **The Harbinger** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:11 pm

I hope he starts anywhere but right after X-O 68

Just imagine for a second that you've lived your entire life and now you're dead. If given the chance to be revived at any point in your life, would you continue right from when you died or would you choose a certain moment to do over? Valiant is like that now. Shooter is getting the chance to go back at any point and do over what went wrong. Hopefully, he starts anywhere but right where VH1 ended.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:13 pm

If he did that then it wouldn't be VALIANT.

Even when he did U2K, which gave him the chance to do what you say, he still chose to pick up seven years after he left, not at some point during his time there.

Shooter was respecting one of the principles VALIANT was built on, which was strong continuity.

I don't remember, but did Jack in U2K return to the Lost Land from 4001 or 4008?

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:49 pm

To tell you the truth Valiant wasn't "Valiant "shortly after Jim left. So trying to save issues and story lines that were sub par as well as the later books that got downright ridiculous doesn't appeal to me much. If most of the stories would have been worthy of pre unity status I would agree, keep the continuity intact. This is not the case though, so scrapping the garbage (and there is a ton of it) and starting again somewhere around Unity makes much more sense to me.

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:50 pm

Daniel Jackson wrote:To tell you the truth Valiant wasn't "Valiant "shortly after Jim left. So trying to save issues and story lines that were sub par as well as the later books that got downright ridiculous doesn't appeal to me much. If most of the stories would have been worthy of pre unity status I would agree, keep the continuity intact. This is not the case though, so scrapping the garbage (and there is a ton of it) and starting again somewhere around Unity makes much more sense to me.

Forget Unity. Starting after Unity doesn't make any sense because then we have to go over new resolutions for stories that were already resolved.

rictor · Post by **rictor** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:53 pm

I would love to see Shooter come back to the VALIANT universe in any capacity. He is one of my favorite writers and he created the universe. So I think he could be a tremendous asset for VEI. I don't know how he feels about returning, since he seems really happy to be back at DC, but I'd be really happy to see any new VALIANT from him.

TDarke · Post by **TDarke** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:03 pm

Well, given the internal power struggle his hiring has started at DC, Shooter may not be back there for too long.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:13 pm

TDarke wrote:Well, given the internal power struggle his hiring has started at DC, Shooter may not be back there for too long.

What's the scoop? Or at least a link!

Thanks!
BoH