Was Deathmate the real start of Valiant's death?

Darques_Emporium · Post by **Darques_Emporium** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:36 pm

I keep talking to some of my buddies and I keep trying to sell them on the new Harbinger HC that is coming out and all they keep telling me is that Deathmate was the reason why Valiant died as the Valiant books were horrible and rushed? Is this true that they were rushed? I didn't buy them when they first released but I swear I read somewhere that Image just kept delaying the books. I also seem to recall that none of the books were very good. Deathmate happened before Acclaim purchased Valiant, yes?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:37 pm

Yes, DM came before Acclaim bought VALIANT.

No, the books weren't rushed (specially the Image ones which shipped late).

As for the quality of the story, that's up to the individual.

I for one liked it, and if it hadn't been for DM I wouldn't have gotten into VALIANT.

DM blue and yellow were my first-ever non-DC and Marvel comics.

Brother J · Post by **Brother J** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:33 pm

I think a book can be rushed but late at the same time. Reminds me of the story Bob Layton told of having to go sit on Rob Liefeld's porch and not leaving until the guy penciled his part of the Deathmate series. It was late because the Image guys were slackers, but was rushed because Liefeld probably didn't have much done until Layton paid his visit, so then Liefeld did the rest of the story in a rush to get Layton off his back.

jedimarley · Post by **jedimarley** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:37 pm

Really...Valiant did the best they could considering the circumstances.

They did their best to put out a quality product. And in the proses exposed Image (at the time) for what they were.

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:10 pm

A few years ago (around 98-00) I was at one of LCS we had here in Indianapolis and I was talking to a now a former employee and he told me that the store he was working at had lost more money on Deathmate than any other mini-series in the store's history.

I remember when Gen 13 was the hottest book around the same store couldn't give away Deathmate Black for free and that was Gen 13's first appearance!

betterthanezra · Post by **betterthanezra** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:15 pm

Cyberstrike wrote: I remember when Gen 13 was the hottest book around the same store couldn't give away Deathmate Black for free and that was Gen 13's first appearance!

I found so many copies of Deathmate Black in cheap bins in San Diego last week man that brought up memories....

-Brian

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:33 pm

Cyberstrike wrote:A few years ago (around 98-00) I was at one of LCS we had here in Indianapolis and I was talking to a now a former employee and he told me that the store he was working at had lost more money on Deathmate than any other mini-series in the store's history.

I remember when Gen 13 was the hottest book around the same store couldn't give away Deathmate Black for free and that was Gen 13's first appearance!

Is Gen 13 still around?

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:36 pm

Daniel Jackson wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:A few years ago (around 98-00) I was at one of LCS we had here in Indianapolis and I was talking to a now a former employee and he told me that the store he was working at had lost more money on Deathmate than any other mini-series in the store's history.

I remember when Gen 13 was the hottest book around the same store couldn't give away Deathmate Black for free and that was Gen 13's first appearance!
Is Gen 13 still around?

In a rebooted version that started from scratch a few months ago.

Darques_Emporium · Post by **Darques_Emporium** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:18 pm

ManofTheAtom wrote:
Daniel Jackson wrote:
Cyberstrike wrote:A few years ago (around 98-00) I was at one of LCS we had here in Indianapolis and I was talking to a now a former employee and he told me that the store he was working at had lost more money on Deathmate than any other mini-series in the store's history.

I remember when Gen 13 was the hottest book around the same store couldn't give away Deathmate Black for free and that was Gen 13's first appearance!
Is Gen 13 still around?
In a rebooted version that started from scratch a few months ago.

That's too bad as Gen 13 was one of the few Image books I actually liked. Then again Wild Storm is DC now. I guess it makes sense.

superman-prime · Post by **superman-prime** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:51 pm

if any comic shop went down because of death mate thats called
putting all your eggs in 1 basket
everyone just ordered too much and henged their bets on that 1 series
there was other great stuff out and the bust was around the corner,
but, the moral of the story is never bet too much on 1 thing
ask the sports card companies of the early nintys same tehing then came comics then mTG
those that did 1 thing died alot that were deverse servived

Daniel Jackson · Post by **Daniel Jackson** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:32 am

Jay Tomio wrote:Regarding Gen13, I have to say that the Wildstorm reboot books are actually quite good,

As good as the original?

Cyberstrike · Post by **Cyberstrike** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:17 am

superman-prime wrote:if any comic shop went down because of death mate thats called
putting all your eggs in 1 basket

Nope the store is still in business.

etos45 · Post by **etos45** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:30 am

I don't think I've ever thought about it before, but I think that Deathmate was about the time I quit reading Valiant. But I think it was more out of disgust of what was going on in the comic industry than what Valiant was doing themselves. Besides, I also think the obscene amount of gimmick covers and all the new titles were a giant turn off too. I liked the small universe.

Second_Death · Post by **Second_Death** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:48 am

Deathmate was a big mistake for Valiant but it was not the start. The beginning of the end started with the dismissal of Jim Shooter.

mobstirr · Post by **mobstirr** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:52 am

Second_Death wrote:Deathmate was a big mistake for Valiant but it was not the start. The beginning of the end started with the dismissal of Jim Shooter.

/agree

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:34 pm

Jay Tomio wrote:In hindsight (and perhaps some not) I think a lot of people hated the idea and it's easy to attach anything negative in that era to VALIANT's practices and Image as a whole.

I'm not even going to front - when Deathmate was announced I was excited. Let's not act like Image wasn't the single hottest publisher on the market. If their were 10 creators who had a bigger following at the time than Liefeld (who even had national commercials - which admittedly was insane) they are revisionist musings. While I'm the opinion that no company crossover ever really accomplished (in my lifetime) anything substantial or significant I thought for new two publishers on the rise this was a great idea and being what it as it was no risk (creatively not financially)

It should have been good but Image's tardiness beckhamed the whole thing. I don't even think the quality would have mattered - get it on time it would not have been viewed with nearly the scorn that it did. It just seems like a project that should have been completed - in pocket - before it was ever released when considering Image's problems with being on time (aside from McFarlane). They effectively turned a project that should have been potentially absolutely harmless and only beneficial into a project that is one of the significant markers of the dark ages of the market (unless you were one of the creator-rock stars).

Regarding Gen13, I have to say that the Wildstorm reboot books are actually quite good,

Could you please clarify what the verb form of Beckham means?

I am relatively sure it has to do with metrosexual football icon David Beckham.

magnusr · Post by **magnusr** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:32 pm

Chiclo wrote:Could you please clarify what the verb form of Beckham means?

Isn't it something like wasting an easy chance? Originally to miss a penalty?

/Magnus

ManofTheAtom · Post by **ManofTheAtom** » Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:29 pm

Darques_Emporium wrote:That's too bad as Gen 13 was one of the few Image books I actually liked. Then again Wild Storm is DC now. I guess it makes sense.

It's become Wildstorm-lite.

Geomancer · Post by **Geomancer** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:54 pm

Deathmate might have marked the end of valiant's "Golden Age" (or even Unity) but to me Birthquake was the deathblow. Thats when so many of the characters I were following either disappeared or were watered down.

To this day I continue to appreciate pretty much everything that came before it.

The Harbinger · Post by **The Harbinger** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:57 pm

Geomancer wrote:Deathmate might have marked the end of valiant's "Golden Age" (or even Unity) but to me Birthquake was the deathblow. Thats when so many of the characters I were following either disappeared or were watered down.

To this day I continue to appreciate pretty much everything that came before it.

yep yep

slym2none · Post by **slym2none** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:59 pm

Personally, I found myself enjoying VALIANT comics less and less (to be fair, I did not read all of them all the way through to CE, but most) a few months leading up to Chaos Effect, and CE was the cut-off for me and VALIANT. I figured if I ever wanted to start back up, at least I knew right where to pick up from - and never did.

-slym