Why's Everybody Dumping..???

The Mixer · Post by **The Mixer** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:33 am

Im very curious why so many people apear to be dumping they Valiant collections. so Many complete runs available on eBay.

I thought many valiant collectors were in on the long haul with these I am curious.

Im pretty close to re-completing my complete set after a flood in early may and it's a bit dishartning to see so many being given away on eBay.

would like the thoughts of some of you ..

[/list]

x-omatic · Post by **x-omatic** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:37 am

The Mixer wrote:Im very curious why so many people apear to be dumping they Valiant collections. so Many complete runs available on eBay.

I thought many valiant collectors were in on the long haul with these I am curious.

Im pretty close to re-completing my complete set after a flood in early may and it's a bit dishartning to see so many being given away on eBay.

would like the thoughts of some of you ..

[/list]

I am not dumping. I am 5 plus deep on all Pre-Unity. At least 10 deep on Magnus. I was just selling extras to free up more cash for some artwork and the last few books I need.

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:54 am

i'm finding some awesome deals on stuff that i actually don't need but i can sell them to finance my quest to complete my run.
i would NEVER unload all my valiant stuff.
it'd have to be a damn serious situation for that to happen.

dino · Post by **dino** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:55 am

I dont think people are unloading. Some are just skimming from the top. Its a good indicator of just how many of these books we have amongst us.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:04 pm

Well I dont know that people are dumping Valiant but it seems like people are more open to sell stuff right now, which is evident by the number of posters on this board who come on only to offer something for sale. Not that I mind that since I am always looking to buy stuff, but it sure seems like everyone is trying to make a little money back on these books. People who like their books will keep them. People who have too many books will sell some...People who dont care about these books will sell them all and make money...the best part is that all of this selling with drive prices down and I will be able to afford everything that I want...so sell on guys...

greg · Post by **greg** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:30 pm

We actually predicted that "something" would happen following the
mentions of Valiant books in Overstreet and Wizard earlier in 2004...

We believed that either the books would 'come out of the woodwork'
and flood Ebay... (therefore, lowering prices due to an increase in supply)...
and/or former Valiant collectors would return to pick up the books again.

Surprisingly, the prices haven't really fallen much on Ebay (yet)...
unless you count the X-O 1/2 Gold FLOOD currently underway...
and a few of the tougher VVSS books are somewhat cheaper lately.

CGC prices have been all over the board... with extreme highs and lows lately,
but the non-key Valiant books seem to be settling into a "normal" price range.

It will be interesting to see what changes take place the rest of 2004.

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:56 pm

Well, it's probably time to spill the beans on what I have been up to. These seems like a good thread.

I have been buying pre-unity for the last 18 months from ebay, and ended up 10-deep in overgraded books (added to the stuff I already had, about 2 full sets). This is why I recently had a massive sale (which is still going on - I'm still taking orders based on my thread in the BST forum) at grades 8.5 or better.

In mid March, I did a massive grading pass of my pre-unity books. I identified 250 books that I believed were 9.6 or better. I sent them in for a pre-screen, and 160 (not a typo) of them passed. Over the next two to three weeks, I will be getting these back from CGC. The bill from CGC for this service was on the order of $2500.

What I have been selling as 8.5+ raw were the 90 that I got back as 'rejects' and the ones that didn't make the cut in the first place.

To intercept some questions:

- I do not know the grades, and I will not be getting them until the books arrive in the mail.

- I will be selling many of the CGC books to cover the major expense for the grading. I will set a price on the CGCs and not sell for less than that price. Period.

- I am not dumping. I set my prices for the raw books and stuck to them. They are not getting cheaper. I was run out of many books. I refused to sell multiples of keys to single buyers, unless they were parts of run.

- Greg has the full list of my books currently at CGC, and the grades will be posted as they come back.

- My goal was always to gather and finance a CGC 9.6+ set of pre-unity, plus a raw set in decent shape, for my own collection.

- The sales I had of the CGC premium books were a mistake. I never intended to sell those books when I listed them, since they were part of my personal set. This is why the prices were so high. Not high enough, apparently.

I am open to constructive comments and questions. Thanks again to evryone who has bought raw books from me! And please buy more.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:04 pm

Alrighty then that sounds cool...I wonder if you will get any 10.0 back in this batch...I have a question though. I thought that with the prescreen you had to have 100 copies of the SAME book. If I sent in 100 copies of Solar 1 I could say that I onyl wanted the books that are better than 9.8 graded. It looks like you sent in several different books for prescreen...like you sent in 250 books for prescreen and it was composed of 10 solar #1, 20 harbinger #1, 5 Solar #10, and so on and thus forth. Which is the case...did you send in a bunch of the same book or a bunch of different books?

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:09 pm

You can send in 100+ moderns for a pre-screen. Does not have to be the same title.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:11 pm

ckb wrote:You can send in 100+ moderns for a pre-screen. Does not have to be the same title.

Ahh....I always thought that they had to be the same title...well now that service makes a little more sense to me.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:27 pm

That is a good goal and it would be kinda neat but I dont really see myself putting a set like together anytime soon. I dont own any cgc books much less going after 50 books graded in 9.6 or better. I guess if I did what you did and started buying large lots of books then I might be able to do it, but I think that I would rather put those dollars somewhere else...it is fairly neat though and I would like to see some pictures or something when you get those cgc packages in...

Greg what do you think about a CGC type registry for Valiants on this site? I guess that cgc could do their own and people could add their books to that registry, but I was just thinking that you could do it in house...Just a though...we really dont know how good we got it on here...I was jsut looking around for some cerebus info since i am considering putting together a nice run of those books and it is kinda hard to come up with a decent site to get information from and that is a book that was being published a recently as a few months. Anyway I really want to see pictures of all of those books and to get a break down of the grades...

As far as protection that slabs provide to a book I dont know that it is that much better than the heavy mylars and a full backing board. We have seen evidence of comics being damaged while in the slab so it does not protect against that and I dont think that the slab blocks UV rays that can also harm books. There is the micro chamber paper or whatever they call it, but that is said to need replacing every 7 years...I dont think that people are buying slabbed books because they are better protection for your book. It is really for the grading and nothing more...

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:43 pm

I appreciate the comments.

The CGC thing is hard to quantify, but I look at it in the following way:

A book in a slab changes the book into a commodity, but more importantly, it is now a showpiece. That's why it always made more sense to me to slab the Gold books, and why I did those first.

While the protection the slab offers is not perfect, it is better than any bag/board can provide, and still let the item be a showpiece. Light exposure is a concern for any comic, UV protection or not.

My goal with Valiant buying and selling has never been to profit - although it would be nice. The goal is to finance further collecting of Valiant items. I do not have everything I want, yet. There's no need for me to hold 10 copies of every book now that my CGCs are coming back.

dino · Post by **dino** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:45 pm

I used to spend $20 on showcase sealers back in the 90s. CGC a book is much better value for money.

I didnt realise the slabs werent UV protective. You could essentially have a 10.0 book sitting in a LCS for five years and fading below its grade.

The Mixer · Post by **The Mixer** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 2:59 pm

Well Im gad to see so many people responding and more glad to see it's not a dump,but a roll off.

Im gonna consider sepearting my collection and pulling one good set and keep the multiple's apart..

ckb I wish you the best with your CGC books I am looking at some of your lots on eBay to replenish some of my losses, as some are aware I had a Flood in early May that wiped out about 300 books I need to replace including my complete post 97 sets....

Unfortunietly I know I will not be able to get them in the same condition I had them being a store owner in the 80 & 90's I alwasy kept two books of everyting Valiant and image that came in the store.

So Im off to try to replace what I lost..

John

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:00 pm

dino wrote:I used to spend $20 on showcase sealers back in the 90s. CGC a book is much better value for money.

I didnt realise the slabs werent UV protective. You could essentially have a 10.0 book sitting in a LCS for five years and fading below its grade.

Well with the 10.0 books it is like catching a lighting bug in a jar...it looks good that night...and hell it might even look good in the morning, but if you take it out and put it in another jar chances are it aint gonna look so good...Anything could happen to make a 10.0 not a 10.0...things beyond your control. You could probably take 10 10.0s pull them outta the case and give them right back to cgc and probably 1/2 would not come back 10.0s...

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:20 pm

And there will be 160 MORE Pre-unity books graded 9.6 or better, which increases the population, which decreases the net worth of the other copies.

Just the reality of the biz.

You could sell a 9.4 X-men #140 for $250 in 2000. Try getting $50 for it now.

And CKB...did you ever get your Harb #1 9.8? There are plenty out there....none of the 22 I ended up with would have made it.

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:25 pm

DawgPhan wrote:
dino wrote:I used to spend $20 on showcase sealers back in the 90s. CGC a book is much better value for money.

I didnt realise the slabs werent UV protective. You could essentially have a 10.0 book sitting in a LCS for five years and fading below its grade.
Well with the 10.0 books it is like catching a lighting bug in a jar...it looks good that night...and hell it might even look good in the morning, but if you take it out and put it in another jar chances are it aint gonna look so good...Anything could happen to make a 10.0 not a 10.0...things beyond your control. You could probably take 10 10.0s pull them outta the case and give them right back to cgc and probably 1/2 would not come back 10.0s...

I can't agree with that. Outside of actual DAMAGE taking place, a 10.0 book looks, to the naked eye, perfect. If the screener, pre-graders, and graders all agree it's 10.0...it's 95 out of 100 (I'd say 99 out of 100, but just to be safe) going to get the same grade again.

9.4 vs. 9.6 vs. 9.8, on the other hand, you have a very valid point.

But 10.0's are visually perfect books....and it's EASY to grade perfect books. You look for flaws. You look over every square centimeter...and if you see ONE....it's not a 10.0.

Easy as cake. That's also why they don't much exist. I can point out flaws in books all day long, flaws that only the nitpickiest among us would care about...but which still are flaws, be it the tiniest of stress, a hint of a bend to an interior page, a hint of a cover abrasion, a tiny spine fleck, whatever.

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:30 pm

Yes but I am saying that the tiniest bit of damage will take place 1/2 the time...probably more slightly more possible if you ship the book from CGC to your house and the from your house to CGC...If any damage takes place the book is no longer a 10.0 and I would think that it would be hard to keep that damage from happening...I do agree that if there is no damage then a 10.0 would remain a 10.0 but I think that the possibility of damage occuring is very high...

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:14 pm

My goal from the start was to acquire one copy of every pre-Unity issue, one copy of a few post-Unity issues of interest, and at least two copies of each Pre-Unity first issue. However, the hunting for bargains has been too much fun. I now have a lot of extra issues that I never intended to own. Right now, I'm mostly using them as trading barter. Valiants are so much easier to find for a bargain than many of the other things I'm looking for, so it works out. I don't know about selling though. Very few of these issues will get more than $10 on ebay, and you lose even more money on lots. I'll probably hold on to whatever I don't trade.

ckb · Post by **ckb** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:43 pm

I don't know yet if any of the Harbinger 1 issues that passed the pre-screen got a 9.8+ or not. I think there were only 2-4 that made it, out of the ~10 I sent in.

When you say there are plenty out there, are you talking about plenty listed in the census, or plenty in existence? I'd disagree with the latter!
I thought we speculated in our discussion about this that a 9.8 H1 could bring $1000-$1500.

ZephyrWasHOT!! wrote:And there will be 160 MORE Pre-unity books graded 9.6 or better, which increases the population, which decreases the net worth of the other copies.

Just the reality of the biz. You could sell a 9.4 X-men #140 for $250 in 2000. Try getting $50 for it now.

And CKB...did you ever get your Harb #1 9.8? There are plenty out there....none of the 22 I ended up with would have made it.

greg · Post by **greg** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:47 pm

ckb wrote:I thought we speculated in our discussion about this that a 9.8 H1 could bring $1000-$1500.

Whoa... well, I know I'd pay $300... and I'm usually a "cheap" buyer.
Hmmm...

DawgPhan · Post by **DawgPhan** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:53 pm

greg wrote:
ckb wrote:I thought we speculated in our discussion about this that a 9.8 H1 could bring $1000-$1500.
Whoa... well, I know I'd pay $300... and I'm usually a "cheap" buyer.
Hmmm...

What is it that stops there from being a 9.8 Harbinger #1...seems like it would ahve been taken care of? I think that it was subject to spine splitting and the coupon thing, but other than that what other printer defects are hurting this book, but then again arent some printer defects allowed in a 9.8?

sonicdan · Post by **sonicdan** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:04 pm

I've been going through my extra gold books and trying to figure
out if I should sell off my extras. I sold bunch of golds a year or two back.
I'm down to my personal set and about 12 doubles.
Should I keep 'em or sell

DAN

ZephyrWasHOT!! · Post by **ZephyrWasHOT!!** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:56 pm

ckb wrote:I don't know yet if any of the Harbinger 1 issues that passed the pre-screen got a 9.8+ or not. I think there were only 2-4 that made it, out of the ~10 I sent in.

When you say there are plenty out there, are you talking about plenty listed in the census, or plenty in existence? I'd disagree with the latter!
I thought we speculated in our discussion about this that a 9.8 H1 could bring $1000-$1500.

Yes, there are plenty in the census, comparatively speaking.

There are 3, which is more than, say, 0. That's not bad for Harb #1!

lobo · Post by **lobo** » Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:28 pm

greg wrote:We actually predicted that "something" would happen following the
mentions of Valiant books in Overstreet and Wizard earlier in 2004...

We believed that either the books would 'come out of the woodwork'
and flood Ebay... (therefore, lowering prices due to an increase in supply)...
and/or former Valiant collectors would return to pick up the books again.

Surprisingly, the prices haven't really fallen much on Ebay (yet)...
unless you count the X-O 1/2 Gold FLOOD currently underway...
and a few of the tougher VVSS books are somewhat cheaper lately.

CGC prices have been all over the board... with extreme highs and lows lately,
but the non-key Valiant books seem to be settling into a "normal" price range.

It will be interesting to see what changes take place the rest of 2004.

From some of the feedback from sellers I've talked to, they only started digging out some of their Valiants to sell simply because of the increased exposure they have been seeing in Wizard.
But from the auctions I see on ebay, selling prices don't seem to getting much lower. For every guy 'dumping' some of his stock there is a fresh collector trying to pick up runs while the getting is relatively good. There are still deals to be had though.

I have noticed that the coupon issues of Harbinger consistantly go for bigger and bigger money. I don't think this is a trend that will be reversing.
I would gladly trade 4 or 5 Solar #1s for just a single Harb #1 (with coupon) straight across right now.

I'd love to see a few CGC 9.8 Harbinger #1s go up for auction just to see what kind of feeding frenzy they would fire up.

ValiantFans.com Board - Since 2004

Why's Everybody Dumping..???

Why's Everybody Dumping..???

Re: Why's Everybody Dumping..???

Beans. Spill.

Glad to See a Responser

to dump or not to dump that is the question