Questions about Solar

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Fri May 21, 2004 8:37 am

I'm rereading the early Solar run right now, and I have some questions.

1. When Solar created a second universe to replace the one he destroyed, I remember reading somwhere that the recreation had anomolies the original didn't, like Geomancers and Harbingers. So where was that stated, am I remembering that correctly, and would extra-terrestrial anomolies like Spider-Aliens and (much later) Malevs also be anomolies that weren't in the original universe?

2. In Solar #7, after fighting a Spider-Alien in the Manowar armor (I'm assuming its a different one than the suit Aric found two issues earlier), he just leaves the body and armor on an alien planet or moon in the solar system. Couldn't someone just find the armor and take the ring? Maybe the Spider-Aliens came back and grabbed it, but it doesn't look like they got the chance.

DJSpecter · Post by **DJSpecter** » Fri May 21, 2004 8:48 am

1) This was from Geoff to Gilad, I don't remember exactly, but I think Solar 11, so keep reading.

2) See X-O 28-30.

-Dave

Shakespeare · Post by **Shakespeare** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:53 am

#1) It's from Geoff to Erica...in Eternal Warrior #2, I think. (Geoff is talking to Erica and is looking at her album) One of the most important revelations in the entire history of Valiant and it's just a throw away line. They really should have played this up more.

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Fri May 21, 2004 10:45 am

Thanks, guys.

Yeah, that struck me as a pretty big revelation, as well.

It makes it particularly hard to chart the history of the Vh1 Universe. Even though the origins of Gilad, Aram, and the Geomancers go far back into pre-history, that history didn't exist until Solar re-created the universe sometime between April and September of 1991. So who's origin came first: Seleski's or theirs?

whetteon · Post by **whetteon** » Fri May 21, 2004 10:49 am

Seleski's

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that when he created the vh1 universe he also gave everyone false memories of their own past.

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Fri May 21, 2004 10:56 am

I think it's a little more cosmologically scientific than that. He's the Polish Sun God. If he wants to create a universe on a whim after absorbing a star, he can probably create a new history, as well. Time is not absolute. Unity proves that, in the second universe (Vh1) past, present, and future occur simotaneously on different planes. Though present and future are shaped by the past, that past is still occurring. If the past weren't still occurring, it couldn't be shaped by other time periods, and thus Magnus never would have ended up in the year 4000 AD.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:35 am

Solar is far from my area of expertise, but the only universe I'm aware he created was VH-2. Even "Brave New World" was in our universe, just in a galaxy far, far away.

I thought that the Phil who destroyed his universe came to "our" universe. Was there a revelation in the post-Brave New World issues that named him creator?

*sigh*. two Solar questions in one day. I really gotta pull out the back issues...

BoH

Jaknife · Post by **Jaknife** » Fri May 21, 2004 1:59 pm

the malevs were made way later than the spideraliens. in solar #20, solar defeated that ship, which crash landed. at the end he says the presence on board was...malevolent. later in magnus, the malev emporer tells magnus that solars destruction of that ship was their beginning.

shaxper · Post by **shaxper** » Sun May 23, 2004 8:03 pm

My bad about Solar creating the universe. That was my perception of what occured in Solar #1, but BoH is correct.

As for the Malevs, I'm aware that Malev 6 was "created" when a sentient artificial intelligence met Solar, but where did the sentient artificial intelligence come from? Was it another of these anomolies created when Solar blew up his universe and came to ours?

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:31 pm

my understanding of all this is solar's origin existed in a universe very much like our own. seleski was unique in that no one as "special" as him had ever existed in that universe. since there was no one else like him, he ended up sharing with erica. this is what enabled erica (the only other survivor of that universe) to escape and begin unity in an attempt to unmake what solar had done.

so solar screws up his universe and creates a new one. one which seems to be exactly the same as his except for all the superheroes. my personal take on this is that since he was a comic fan he subconciously remade the universe to allow the potential for extraordinary beings like himself.

i also think it was done as an attempt to ensure that he wouldn't feel so alone. he would, by design, always have someone who could relate to him and his unusual destiny because they too shared a unusual destiny of their own.

now i dont think the majority of this is supported in any valiant issues, it's just my take on why the original universe was devoid of characters which seem to abound in the new one.

also, something that *SQUEE* me off about vh2 (sorry if this has already been covered but i just started reading those, until this point where i stopped out of disgust) is that vh2 was caused by the timeline diversion in which aric escaped with the x-o armor before 1991 which caused all the timeline from that point on to diverge from the vh1 timeline.

but why then was the origin of the eternal warrior, ivar and aram changed? they would have been born well, well before aric escaped the spider aliens in 792 ad (guessing at the date). i mean, i was with them up until that point...but once i realized that the eternal family's origins would remain unchanged given that circumstance i saw what simply sloppy writing it was. here's another stupid thing about vh2...if aric escaped in 792 ad with the armor, causing the change in the timeline, why is he STILL on the spider aliens ship in the armorines mini-series?? i was looking thru it and damned if aric and the mapgiver (elvis..lol) aren't sitting in the background of one of the panels. i mean, what the hell were they thinking? thats just poor execution. not meaning to *SQUEE* off any vh2 fanboys here, just calling it like i see it.

as for the x-o armor solar defeated and left on the moon that was later utilized as the armor which was bonded with paul after shanhara was destroyed by the spider aliens.

solar was often overlooked as one of the books that served as a harbinger (excuse the pun) of things to come in the valiant universe. everyone wants to point to magnus and rai as the books which reveal everything, but there's a fair amount of things in solar as well.

DJSpecter · Post by **DJSpecter** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:36 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but there are NO VH2 fanboys here.

And that year for Aric was 410 (or 408) (The Man of the Atom special delt with this I think.)

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:41 pm

i couldnt remember the date, but either way it's still WAY after the eternal warrior and his brothers.

i think they're are some fans of the vh2 stuff here. or there was on the old board anyway.

myron · Post by **myron** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:45 pm

cinlach wrote:my understanding of all this is solar's origin existed in a universe very much like our own. seleski was unique in that no one as "special" as him had ever existed in that universe. since there was no one else like him, he ended up sharing with erica. this is what enabled erica (the only other survivor of that universe) to escape and begin unity in an attempt to unmake what solar had done.

so solar screws up his universe and creates a new one. one which seems to be exactly the same as his except for all the superheroes. my personal take on this is that since he was a comic fan he subconciously remade the universe to allow the potential for extraordinary beings like himself.

yes and no...Erica had the power in seleskis original universe and tried to use the government and her power to destroy solar...at which point he los t control and made the black hole...then he recreated the universe. The second time around he tried to help erica with her powers and she went balistic and started all the unity stuff...

solar was often overlooked as one of the books that served as a harbinger (excuse the pun) of things to come in the valiant universe. everyone wants to point to magnus and rai as the books which reveal everything, but there's a fair amount of things in solar as well.

I agree...at least through the first 30 issues or so...

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:49 pm

cinlach wrote:also, something that *SQUEE* me off about vh2 (sorry if this has already been covered but i just started reading those, until this point where i stopped out of disgust) is that vh2 was caused by the timeline diversion in which aric escaped with the x-o armor before 1991 which caused all the timeline from that point on to diverge from the vh1 timeline.

but why then was the origin of the eternal warrior, ivar and aram changed? they would have been born well, well before aric escaped the spider aliens in 792 ad (guessing at the date). i mean, i was with them up until that point...but once i realized that the eternal family's origins would remain unchanged given that circumstance i saw what simply sloppy writing it was.

This was explained in MAN OF THE ATOM. It's called Heisenberg's Principle, which (paraphrased) states that the act of observing a reaction causes it to affect the reaction. When Phil watched Aric create a world that was new from 408 onward, his desire for a world in which he had never been born was so strong that it affected the timeline moving BACKWARDS from 408 to the Big Bang. That's why we have different Immortal Brothers. Not bad writing at all. Some pretty heavy stuff that I believe put off a lot of comic readers. With a few exceptions--Bloodshot, Eternal Warrior, Harada, a bit o' Phil Seleski--VH-1 was much more a world of black and white, whereas VH-2 was nothing but subtle shades of grey. Just this fanboy's two cents' worth.

Semi-unrelated tidbit: at one time, they were goin to reveal that VH-1's Phil Seleski was the only member of triplets who survived and that, in his world without Phil (aka "VH-2"), Frank and Helena got their chance at life while Phil was never born. Too bad that never saw publication. It could have been pretty cool.

cinlach wrote:here's another stupid thing about vh2...if aric escaped in 792 ad with the armor, causing the change in the timeline, why is he STILL on the spider aliens ship in the armorines mini-series?? i was looking thru it and damned if aric and the mapgiver (elvis..lol) aren't sitting in the background of one of the panels. i mean, what the hell were they thinking? thats just poor execution. not meaning to *SQUEE* off any vh2 fanboys here, just calling it like i see it.

VH-2 had a continuity that rivaled VH-1, but it was (again) much more subtle and spread out all over the place. If you missed a title, you could miss an important revelation. VH-2 Aric didn't bond with the armor and didn't make it to the present day, unlike his VH-1 counterpart. It's very conceivable that the Spider Aliens, wanting to recapture the X-O armor, at least got Aric again. His presence was never explained, but it doesn't contradict anything the way VH-1 Aric's corpse on the alien ship would.

BoH, swinging for the fences on yet another Solar discussion

cinlach@aol.com · Post by **cinlach@aol.com** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:52 pm

thanks for the assist guys, it's been a long time since i've re-read the entire line...something i sincerely wanna do again.

here's a question...did they ever say what happened to geoff after chaos effect? i've been racking my brain and i do not remember hearing about that.

after chaos effect the books really started to go downhill for me and i stopped buying them. i just couldn't justify paying $2.50 for a book that i felt was substandard to what they could do. so everything after Chaos is really sketchy for me.

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:54 pm

DJSpecter wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, but there are NO VH2 fanboys here.

You're wrong.

BoH

BloodOfHeroes · Post by **BloodOfHeroes** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:58 pm

shaxper wrote:My bad about Solar creating the universe. That was my perception of what occured in Solar #1, but BoH is correct.

Phew! Thanks for the assist. If I missed THAT, I'd have to become a fan of something with more streamlined continuity. Like, say, HAWKMAN or THE LEGION OF SUPERHEROES...

BoH

Shakespeare · Post by **Shakespeare** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:13 pm

"which (paraphrased) states that the act of observing a reaction causes it to affect the reaction."

Would someone please tell Michael Moore about this...

"did they ever say what happened to geoff after chaos effect?"

Everyone had a party because they were glad he was gone.

But honestly, even though they had Armstrong and Archer in later stories, we never saw Geoff again (except, chronologically, in Rai #0)

S

justin · Post by **justin** » Mon May 24, 2004 3:17 pm

I know Geoff dies in 2062 and his niece (Lucinda Mendez) suceeds him as Geomancer. But as to what happens to him after Chaos Effect, I know not!

-A

Jaknife · Post by **Jaknife** » Mon May 24, 2004 4:11 pm

He probably came back with Archer and Armstrong, and then just chilled. Wouldn't he have tried to contact Gilad? As he would still be able to hear the Earth. Hmm, oh well. Maybe they came back after the lines had ended.

cjv · Post by **cjv** » Mon May 24, 2004 5:04 pm

You know, I never really thought that Solar "created" the Valiant Universe, in as much as his transfer from his own universe to the Valiant Universe somehow "enabled" the creation of the super power beings (Harbingers, Gilad, Geomancers, etc). Meaning it wasn't something he really did, but when he "fell" into the VH1 universe, he presence changed the past, present, and future to turn it into the universe we know and love.

Chris

Jaknife · Post by **Jaknife** » Mon May 24, 2004 7:20 pm

I agree with this completely. Because he obviously wasn't in a state of mind to do something so extraordinary. also, if he created it, why would he allow for another phil seleski and another edgewater accident.