DC or Marvel - Which is the better comic publisher?

[slym2none]

Two words - Iron Fist (okay that is Brubaker and Fraction writing together). But I keep forgetting to 'big up' (that is the right 'street' or 'urban' vernacular isn't it? - trying to 'keep it real' here! ) this great, great book.

Leon, if I may - please, please, PLEASE don't try to be 'urban,' OK? 'Keepin' it real' just isn't you.





-slym

[Zool]

Now I don't know if these still fully count in current continuity (again, a constant problem with DC) but the best intro arcs or runs for the characters are:

Wonder Woman- the stuff witten and drawn by Perez (1-25 of the 80's series or something like that)
GL- GL Emerald Dawn
Flash- Waid's run
Aquaman- I assume Peter David's run, heard lots of good things about it despite the loss of the hand...
Superman- Man of Steel and Superman 1-22 (the core of Byrne's run)
Batman- Batman Year One and if I can cheat with a second recommendation, Starlin's run in the 80's
JLA- JLA: Midsummers Nightmare and Morrison's run (they work as one long storyline)
Titans- Wolfman/Perez's run
Spectre- the Orstrander/Mandrake series of the 90's
Darkseid/New Gods- Kirby's stuff in the 70's now collected in cheap trades: New Gods, Forever People, two Jimmy Olsen trades and the first Mister Miracle trade

Cheers all who chipped in, I'm familiar with a some of this stuff (Peter David on Aquaman, Batman Year One, Byrne Superman) but will probably have a dig around for some other bits.

Also, I read Kevin Smith's Green Arrow, and thoroughly enjoyed it (but didn't know the character very much before that). I absolutely despise Kevin Smith's Daredevil (I character I know backwards) stuff so I'd be interested to hear if he offended any G.A. fans with his handling of the character.

And, I must admit though, Marvel continuity may be a bit messy but with all this 'I don't know if this is still in continuity' talk I'm glad at least all my Marvel books still happened

[Todd Luck]

And now to chime in on my own question: I voted for Marvel.

I've always been a DC guy, even before I read comics I tended to gravitate more towards their characters. But their main titles tended to be of such poor quality in the 90's, I ended up just collecting their smaller, more obscure titles since that was were all their talent was. But since the crash of the 90's almost every single title I've collected has been canceled, editorially screwed over (and then canceled) and then altered or wipped out of continuity immediately after the cancelation. Infinite Crisis was of such poor quality and One Year Later screwed over the one DCU title I was still reading (which was of course canceled a few months later). I just gave up. I know DC is putting some great things right now but I just can't bring myself to care anymore. At some point I'll hunt down the back issues or trades for the stuff that sounds decent.

Meanwhile, I was reading JMS's Spiderman run and enjoying it to death. It's the quirky, original, human stories that made the series great to begin with. Aunt May and Mary Jane went from being annoying 2-D sterotypes to being fully fleshed out, interesting characters that were actually important to the stories. I found similar quality and enjoyment in JMS's other titles.

I was enjoying the Civil War Spiderman story (probably the best of JMS's run) and was intrigued by the Civil War miniseries (but never once did I feel I had to go out and get it to follow ASM). Then Cap got killed. It was 100% shock. I'd never been surprised by a Marvel/DC comic in my whole life before. It was amazing.

So i got Cap 25. I'd never picked up a Cap issue before. Like many comic fans, including many who are mad over the death, I'd never even thought about picking up an issue of Cap's series before. I mean he's cool on Avengers but what can you do with a book about a walking flag? But reading Cap 25, I was blown away. The incredible art and smart, powerful story hooked me immediately. And things I thought wouldn't work, like the resurrected Bucky, added volumns to the story. So now I collect Cap.

Well, that pushed me over the edge on trying Civil War itself. I'd read so much whining about it online I didn't think I'd like it. But I loved it. It really felt like a natural evolution of the last umpteen decades of the public's discomfort over superheros and the arguements between Cap and Iron Man over human (civil) rights vs the greater good (like in the 80s, when they argued over whether to kill Molecule Man or Galactus when they had the chance). Iron Man is trying to use the law to make the world a better place while Cap is trying to stand up for rights of his fellow heroes. Both use dirty or draconian measures in their battle. I greatly enjoyed it. I really loved most of the specials too- War Crimes, Captian America/Iron man, Avengers Illumanti- it's just so unusual to see specials in an x-over event focus on characterization and ideas rather than on big fights and cosmic hoo doo.

I also tried Annihlation and World War Hulk and i'm hooked on those too. I've even tried some of their "lighter" stuff like Marvel Adventures Iron man which I though was very good in an old school sort of way and Franklin Richards which is hillarious (pray this kid never finds the Ultimate Nulifer!). I saw one issue of Marvel Adventures Avengers where all the Avengers are turned into little MODOC heads, that I've got to get! LOL

[Chiclo]

-Wonder Woman is one of the few DC titles I can claim to be a regular reader of over the last 10 years or so. Really, the only key for her is the one on the shelf and the ones that crossover with it. She loses her powers and gets them back almost annually and it's almost always Artemis or Circe, depending on whether or not she's on good terms with Artemis.

To push you a little bit, if you had to introduce someone to Wonder Woman with one arc or run, which would it be? (and I appreciate you may not understand every facet of the character after it, but you'd have the basics).

And in fact, if anyone wants to chip in with the same for GL, The Flash and Aquaman I'd be very interested to hear them.

The Deodato WW run I would say is the only one I wuold bother hunting down. And that just as much for the Bolland covers as anything else.

GL? I would say the rebirth thing that Johns and Van Sciver did is pretty good. I likes the GL 48-50 storyline when Hal Jordan went crazy as well

Flash I heard the last few years have been great but I wouldn't bother buying them all.

And there's no such thing as a great Aquaman story..there hasn't been one yet

Yeah, the Deodato run is as good as any.

There was one arc... I'd have to go digging through back issues to find it again, it was around issue 90 or 100 of one of her old series. She had lost the mantle of Wonder Woman to Artemis (again) but still had her power. She ended up squaring off against the Joker and dances with Pan to out-psycho the Joker. Probably my favourite WW arc.

[Chiclo]

Ed Brubaker is becoming one of my favorite writers.His runs on Daredevil and on Captain America got me hook.Those were two books I never read until he got on them.As far on the X-men in IMO i thinks he has done a wonderful job writing the books.I love the way he brought Warpath back as a kick A$$ killing machine.

Jesse

The 12-part arc where they go to the Shi'ar Empire and square off against Deathbird and the third Summers boy (Vulcan) was pretty cool. It's kinda cool how the Starjammers have broken up and Hapzebah is now wearing the X.

Side note - Peter David is taking over She-Hulk. This is awesome, but I haven't heard if he's leaving X-Factor. His X-Factor run has been really outstanding, and I'll be glad to see him on one of my (other) favourite books.

[daydreamscomics]

Marvel by leaps and bounds...Better writers, better artists, better stories, better concepts, better all around...

i give them

Vertigo titles are better than 90% of what DC puts out, and the only DC titles i'm actually excited to read are written by Grant Morrison (2 books)...or Darwyn Cooke (1 book).

i give them (and that's pushing it)

[leonmallett]

Two words - Iron Fist (okay that is Brubaker and Fraction writing together). But I keep forgetting to 'big up' (that is the right 'street' or 'urban' vernacular isn't it? - trying to 'keep it real' here! ) this great, great book.

Leon, if I may - please, please, PLEASE don't try to be 'urban,' OK? 'Keepin' it real' just isn't you.





-slym

Thought I'd give it a try. I'll stick to my not-so-keeping-it-urbanly-real board persona.

[cobra_commander]

Marvel has no regular exclusive that touches Morrison IMHO (maybe if Gaiman is still on board with Eternals - but that's flat for a Gaiman title) and I haven't found any of their flagship titles to be better than Dini's Detective, All Star-Superman, or the current Sinestro Corps stuff (excellent). Teen Titans has fallen off a bit for me at DC - I still love Shadowpact.

I like Brubaker - I really do - but his revisions seem more great feats of common sense (and he had the wisdom to do it and should get all the credit - no doubt) that stands outs due to the lack of it in the House of Ideas in the recent past. Still, I enjoy his work.

Morrison and Meltzer write on another level to the Marvel writers. You can tell they're just more skilled at their craft.

[leonmallett]

I still haven't voted on this because for me it is very close. That closeness isn't based on great quality, but fatigue with some of the central problems centred around both companies over-use of 'events' (at least in my view). Until 5 years ago, and after over 20 years reading comics up until then, I would have instantly said DC, but they have actually taken a step back with key events in the last few years for my liking. Thus each has some incredibly books, but there is a lot of so-so stuff that feels as though it is a re-tread or otherwise is place-holding/treading water. And don't get me started on the change for change's sake phase DC are going through (some is okay - but the sheer amount of changes to characters that has happened is overwhelming and so is overkill: there has simply been too much change; I'd love no more reboots or re-branding for a while, but at least they have effectively undone Bart as the Flash and brought back Wally).

[tarheelmarine]

Few random observations:

-Is Kingdom Come technically a key for DC's mainstream continuity? That was an elseworlds story and **spoiler**Wonderwoman was pregnant with Superman's baby at the end of the series** and as I understand it, that didn't happen (among many other things) in regular DC continuity. It's also set a ways in the future and drawn by Alex Ross. So, it fits in about like Earth X.

KC is one of the mulitiverses.

[Todd Luck]

Few random observations:

-Is Kingdom Come technically a key for DC's mainstream continuity? That was an elseworlds story and **spoiler**Wonderwoman was pregnant with Superman's baby at the end of the series** and as I understand it, that didn't happen (among many other things) in regular DC continuity. It's also set a ways in the future and drawn by Alex Ross. So, it fits in about like Earth X.

KC is one of the mulitiverses.

Atleast it is this week...

[Chiclo]

Few random observations:

-Is Kingdom Come technically a key for DC's mainstream continuity? That was an elseworlds story and **spoiler**Wonderwoman was pregnant with Superman's baby at the end of the series** and as I understand it, that didn't happen (among many other things) in regular DC continuity. It's also set a ways in the future and drawn by Alex Ross. So, it fits in about like Earth X.

KC is one of the mulitiverses.

Atleast it is this week...

[Cyberstrike]

-Meanwhile, DC has returned one of it's flagship characters (Green Lantern) to new heights thanks to Geoff Johns.

Yeah by sh!tcanning Kyle Rayner to oblivion. Hal Jordan is the most boring
character in the DCU his return marked the end of the Green Lantern for
me, as the Specter he was much more of a fully 3D character when I read the first few issues of the Green Lantern series Hal was back as his old dull as dirt character.

-They've successfully relaunched the JLA & JSA books.

Big deal they did that back in 90s and much better.

-They brought back the multiverses, which will give them a lot more creative avenues.

Here's a newsflash DC brought back the multiverse in The Kingdom
with the Hypertime concept but guess what the fans hated it and frankly
the multiverse concept needs to be forgotten it serves only to confuse the
readers.

-They made the right move by bringing Wally back as Flash.

So what he was the Flash before Infinte Crapfest why shouldn't be the Flash afterwords he has earned the mantle of being the Flash just as Kyle
Rayner earned the mantle of being Green Lantern.

[leonmallett]

Say how you feel Cyberstike, don't be sitting on the fence there.

[Chiclo]

Now, now Leon.

No need for that level of sarcasm.

At least, no need for that after you hit the magic 3000 (less than 100 to go!).

[Cyberstrike]

Say how you feel Cyberstike, don't be sitting on the fence there.

I don't like either one right now. I like IDW, Dark Horse, Image, and Valiant.

[leonmallett]

Say how you feel Cyberstike, don't be sitting on the fence there.

I don't like either one right now. I like IDW, Dark Horse, Image, and Valiant.

No offence meant, fella.

[leonmallett]

Now, now Leon.

No need for that level of sarcasm.

At least, no need for that after you hit the magic 3000 (less than 100 to go!).

Working on it.

[Cyberstrike]

Say how you feel Cyberstike, don't be sitting on the fence there.

I don't like either one right now. I like IDW, Dark Horse, Image, and Valiant.

No offence meant, fella.

None was taken I was simply answering the question more fully.

I think DC has taken a 20+ year step backwards with Infinte Crapfest,
and when I, the world's biggest Jim Starlin fan, can't even look at Mysteries in Space mini-series he did without feeling disgusted by it. Then you know that DC has lost me as a long time and loyal reader, now
maybe in a few years I might be able to forgive them.

I lost what little intrest I had in Marvel after the God-awful "The Other" crossover through the Spider-Man titles.

[leonmallett]

Say how you feel Cyberstike, don't be sitting on the fence there.

I don't like either one right now. I like IDW, Dark Horse, Image, and Valiant.

No offence meant, fella.

None was taken I was simply answering the question more fully.

I think DC has taken a 20+ year step backwards with Infinte Crapfest,
and when I, the world's biggest Jim Starlin fan, can't even look at Mysteries in Space mini-series he did without feeling disgusted by it. Then you know that DC has lost me as a long time and loyal reader, now
maybe in a few years I might be able to forgive them.

I lost what little intrest I had in Marvel after the God-awful "The Other" crossover through the Spider-Man titles.

Without doubt I regard Infinite Crisis and the need that DC feel is there for an event-trilogy, or whatever they are planning, as being something of a nadir. I also dislike that 'third-tier' characters are altered/killed/mantles passed on to simply meet Didio's desire for diversity. I have no problem with diversity, but why change so many characters so dramatically (the Charlton crew seem most shafted on this in my view) at the same time? There is always room for new characters and the issue would not feel so forced. It has not been story led, it has been sweeping editorial mandate led. Montoya as the Question was the tipping point for me where I just wanted to shaek Didio and say: "No!". Messinfg the basic genius of the Shazam/Capatian Marvel/Billy Batson premise was the next stupid move. Grrr.

At least Civil War as a premise (taking out the politics and the execution) was a more solid foundation for a story. Don't get me started on House of aMazing stupidity though...


Rant over.

Normal stupid(er) posts will resume...!

[Todd Luck]

Montoya as the Question was the tipping point for me where I just wanted to shaek Didio and say: "No!".

Montoya as the what?!?!

Just keeping telling yourself "It'll be whiped out of continuity next crossover" whenever crap like this happens because, well, it probably will be.

[leonmallett]

Montoya as the Question was the tipping point for me where I just wanted to shaek Didio and say: "No!".

Montoya as the what?!?!

Just keeping telling yourself "It'll be whiped out of continuity next crossover" whenever crap like this happens because, well, it probably will be.

The out they appear to be leaving to justify the situation is that there is a Vic Sage question (or so it appears) on one of the new Earths.

[hawkman]

I notice the poll is all tied up

Here's a noobs twocents:

I learned to read in '77, that makes me an old fan. DC was >IT< and I flat could not stand Marvel(except of course a little Spiderman). When I got a little older something clicked and I switched to Marvel and couldn't get enough. Back and forth over the years. I ramble but I have two points(I think)

1. It's creator driven, even before I knew who wolfman/perez were, I knew that Teen Titans and Legion of Superheroes kicked *SQUEE*. This goes for both companys, and any and all eras. I mean geez they all switch back and forth, when Jim Lee is drawing Punisher War Journal its BETTER than ice cream. Even Stan(the MAN) Lee did some work for DC.

2.Its also about the continuity. Anytime either company finds something that makes money for them they do it to death(see Ghost Rider, for example)

I don't buy or collect collect comics anymore. Because they (marvel/dc) always ruin it in the end by trying to make me buy more related titles, crossovers etc.. I myself kinda wish I could just go to the store and buy a comic with a catchy cover and read about Batman or Spiderman beating up a classic villain by the end of the issue with highquality or at least decent artwork.

Until Valiant returns, make mine ice cream.

[Todd Luck]

I notice the poll is all tied up

Here's a noobs twocents:

I learned to read in '77, that makes me an old fan. DC was >IT< and I flat could not stand Marvel(except of course a little Spiderman). When I got a little older something clicked and I switched to Marvel and couldn't get enough. Back and forth over the years. I ramble but I have two points(I think)

1. It's creator driven, even before I knew who wolfman/perez were, I knew that Teen Titans and Legion of Superheroes kicked *SQUEE*. This goes for both companys, and any and all eras. I mean geez they all switch back and forth, when Jim Lee is drawing Punisher War Journal its BETTER than ice cream. Even Stan(the MAN) Lee did some work for DC.

2.Its also about the continuity. Anytime either company finds something that makes money for them they do it to death(see Ghost Rider, for example)

I don't buy or collect collect comics anymore. Because they (marvel/dc) always ruin it in the end by trying to make me buy more related titles, crossovers etc.. I myself kinda wish I could just go to the store and buy a comic with a catchy cover and read about Batman or Spiderman beating up a classic villain by the end of the issue with highquality or at least decent artwork.

Until Valiant returns, make mine ice cream.

If you're at all interested in sampling new comics I would suggest trying Marvel Adventures Iron Man, Avengers or Hulk (which is coming out next week). They're self contained, quirky action stories with decent writing and great art (especially Avengers, the art on that one blows me away). It's hero vs villian with a conclusion at the end of every issue. It's good in an old school Marvel way.

[tarheelmarine]

I notice the poll is all tied up

Here's a noobs twocents:

I learned to read in '77, that makes me an old fan. DC was >IT< and I flat could not stand Marvel(except of course a little Spiderman). When I got a little older something clicked and I switched to Marvel and couldn't get enough. Back and forth over the years. I ramble but I have two points(I think)

1. It's creator driven, even before I knew who wolfman/perez were, I knew that Teen Titans and Legion of Superheroes kicked *SQUEE*. This goes for both companys, and any and all eras. I mean geez they all switch back and forth, when Jim Lee is drawing Punisher War Journal its BETTER than ice cream. Even Stan(the MAN) Lee did some work for DC.

2.Its also about the continuity. Anytime either company finds something that makes money for them they do it to death(see Ghost Rider, for example)

I don't buy or collect collect comics anymore. Because they (marvel/dc) always ruin it in the end by trying to make me buy more related titles, crossovers etc.. I myself kinda wish I could just go to the store and buy a comic with a catchy cover and read about Batman or Spiderman beating up a classic villain by the end of the issue with highquality or at least decent artwork.

Until Valiant returns, make mine ice cream.

If you're at all interested in sampling new comics I would suggest trying Marvel Adventures Iron Man, Avengers or Hulk (which is coming out next week). They're self contained, quirky action stories with decent writing and great art (especially Avengers, the art on that one blows me away). It's hero vs villian with a conclusion at the end of every issue. It's good in an old school Marvel way.

hey Cyberstrike--I am glad to see someone else liked Kyle. I didn't like that they turned him into a second fiddle GL, but I have a feeling when someone our age becomes a writer for DC in 10 years they have him kick Hal's sorry butt again, and restore him to the preeminent post. However, i did see an interesting stroyline in GL a year ago when Hal discovered some former GL's that had been captured by the Cyborg superman and some other peeps. I plan on tracking those down and reading them now that I am back.

Get some Conan hawkman--the new trades by dark horse are great reading.