Dead Drop #4 Discussion

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by depluto »

Dead Drop is a good euphemism for "taking a poop."

I tried to like this and appreciate Valiant trying something different. But those kids were pretty powerful! I bet they could also beat Ninjak in a fistfight, hack Livewire's weave off her head, outdrink Armstrong and outgun Bloodshot.

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by Thomas »

depluto wrote:Dead Drop is a good euphemism for "taking a poop."

I tried to like this and appreciate Valiant trying something different. But those kids were pretty powerful! I bet they could also beat Ninjak in a fistfight, hack Livewire's weave off her head, outdrink Armstrong and outgun Bloodshot.
...and outlive Gilad.

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by jmatt »

Okay, I thought some more about this today and something occurred to me. Forget all of the character anomalies and such for a moment, but it had terrible plotting.

It could have been an interesting mini: aliens, a killer virus, subterfuge with Neville, a chase, some new side characters, black market dealings... it had all of the elements.

The problem was that the entire two first issues were spent on the chase. There's a ton of ground to cover with all of these elements; the chase could have been limited to three or four pages, leaving tons of panel space to make more sense of the story.

That's just bad storytelling.

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by Phoenix8008 »

slack wrote:He brought a dead character back to life... With teenage parkour hackers.
I just realized that you're right about this. Not even that it was stupid teenage hackers who did it, but that DEAD WASN'T DEAD!

That rubs me wrong. I don't care if it was a light hearted romp and shouldn't be taken this seriously. I feel now that I can't hold up that one thing anymore when describing to others how Valiant is different and better than the others. I mean, his freaking head was cut off! So what that they're brilliant hackers. Are they spinal surgeons on the side too? WTF!? The more I think about it, the more it bugs me. And it's only made worse by the fact of this violation of their code being part of this throw away, badly written story. Not even something important that I would consider forgiving them for breaking this cardinal rule. ("Oh, they brought back Kay with such and such reason for why she wasn't really dead? I don't like it, but I may be willing to forgive them if it's for something really awesome/important.") Nope, just because - that's why. As part of the worst written thing published by VEI so far. I am far from happy about this...

facepalm :!: :mad:
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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by slack »

As I've said elsewhere, I'm considering this story to have taken place in one of the Quantum & Woody alternate universes.

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by dornwolf »

I just realized I forgot about this series

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by Dallow Spicer1 »

BugsySig wrote:What

The

*SQUEE*?!?

While for the second issue in a row, I enjoyed a little development of a previously barely used character in Cejudo, this story made ZERO sense. How did the Alien get infected? Why were hose two kids even there? If the Alien had a cure, why not use it (unless it only worked on humans for some reason) to save himself? How would infecting the Earth have led to revenge against the planet the virus came from? How exactly would Cejudo have killed XO Manowar? How could rope hold a practically Omega level Psiot who can call upon almost any Psiot power to save himself? And to add to the questions above, how did 2 kids hack the XO armor and reattach Beta Max's head?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to the Worst Writing thread and vote for Dead Drop.
+1 to all of that!

However, let's not forget Gorham's art was excellent and I hope he gets more VEI work! :hope:

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by mateo107 »

Tony_H wrote:Anybody know what the sales figures for the series were? 1 was obviously a hit, but was much of that momentum sustained though 3 and 4?
#1 9,874
#2 7,059
#3 5,899

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by BugsySig »

Dallow Spicer1 wrote:
BugsySig wrote:What

The

*SQUEE*?!?

While for the second issue in a row, I enjoyed a little development of a previously barely used character in Cejudo, this story made ZERO sense. How did the Alien get infected? Why were hose two kids even there? If the Alien had a cure, why not use it (unless it only worked on humans for some reason) to save himself? How would infecting the Earth have led to revenge against the planet the virus came from? How exactly would Cejudo have killed XO Manowar? How could rope hold a practically Omega level Psiot who can call upon almost any Psiot power to save himself? And to add to the questions above, how did 2 kids hack the XO armor and reattach Beta Max's head?

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to the Worst Writing thread and vote for Dead Drop.
+1 to all of that!

However, let's not forget Gorham's art was excellent and I hope he gets more VEI work! :hope:
+2...good art.
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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by Tony_H »

mateo107 wrote:
Tony_H wrote:Anybody know what the sales figures for the series were? 1 was obviously a hit, but was much of that momentum sustained though 3 and 4?
#1 9,874
#2 7,059
#3 5,899
Thanks! So sales dropped 40% between 1 and 3. I'd guess that'd mean that readers at large held opinions similar to those voiced here on the board (and my own)...however, if I recall correctly, the Doctor Mirage series sales were also pretty low, even though many folks around these parts praised the heck out of it.

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by BugsySig »

Tony_H wrote:
mateo107 wrote:
Tony_H wrote:Anybody know what the sales figures for the series were? 1 was obviously a hit, but was much of that momentum sustained though 3 and 4?
#1 9,874
#2 7,059
#3 5,899
Thanks! So sales dropped 40% between 1 and 3. I'd guess that'd mean that readers at large held opinions similar to those voiced here on the board (and my own)...however, if I recall correctly, the Doctor Mirage series sales were also pretty low, even though many folks around these parts praised the heck out of it.
A 40% drop between issues 1 and 2 is not uncommon, and is actually pretty respectable.
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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by Tony_H »

BugsySig wrote:
Tony_H wrote:
mateo107 wrote:
Tony_H wrote:Anybody know what the sales figures for the series were? 1 was obviously a hit, but was much of that momentum sustained though 3 and 4?
#1 9,874
#2 7,059
#3 5,899
Thanks! So sales dropped 40% between 1 and 3. I'd guess that'd mean that readers at large held opinions similar to those voiced here on the board (and my own)...however, if I recall correctly, the Doctor Mirage series sales were also pretty low, even though many folks around these parts praised the heck out of it.
A 40% drop between issues 1 and 2 is not uncommon, and is actually pretty respectable.
Wow. Really? If that's a respectable margin, then you're saying that it's also not uncommon for books to drop off by 50%+? (BTW, I'm not challenging the validity of your assertion--I just don't follow comic sales stats regularly.)

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by BugsySig »

Tony_H wrote:
BugsySig wrote:
Tony_H wrote:
mateo107 wrote:
Tony_H wrote:Anybody know what the sales figures for the series were? 1 was obviously a hit, but was much of that momentum sustained though 3 and 4?
#1 9,874
#2 7,059
#3 5,899
Thanks! So sales dropped 40% between 1 and 3. I'd guess that'd mean that readers at large held opinions similar to those voiced here on the board (and my own)...however, if I recall correctly, the Doctor Mirage series sales were also pretty low, even though many folks around these parts praised the heck out of it.
A 40% drop between issues 1 and 2 is not uncommon, and is actually pretty respectable.
Wow. Really? If that's a respectable margin, then you're saying that it's also not uncommon for books to drop off by 50%+? (BTW, I'm not challenging the validity of your assertion--I just don't follow comic sales stats regularly.)
I don't have numbers in front of me, but yes a 30-40% drop is considered very normal following a #1 issue. For really big releases it can often be more.
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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by Brapbrap »

rocket raccoon is the craziest drop i've ever seen

293,000 #1s to 56,000 #2s

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by Tony_H »

Brapbrap wrote:rocket raccoon is the craziest drop i've ever seen

293,000 #1s to 56,000 #2s
*SQUEE*!

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by greg »

Orphan Black #1, 497,000 copies in February 2015
Orphan Black #2, 10,652 copies in March 2015

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by Brother Darque »

I would read a comic starring Beta-Max.

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by KXXX »

Brother Darque wrote:I would read a comic starring Beta-Max.
+1

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by BugsySig »

Both Rocket Racoon and Orphan Black were included in Loot Crate those months, so those are not really fair drops to compare against. Loot Crate has several hundred thousand subscribers right now.

Just looking at the highest selling second issue in July, and comparing with the first issue in June...

Amazing Spider-Man Renew Your Vows
#1: 203,565
#2: 93, 981
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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by jmatt »

KXXX wrote:
Brother Darque wrote:I would read a comic starring Beta-Max.
+1
+1

His issue here in DD helped, but he was always a sympathetic and likable character. He'd be great as an ongoing sidekick to QW, maybe as their personal assistant or something.

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by greg »

Generally speaking, there's no point in comparing the sales of #1 issues to #2 issues to try to determine if readers liked the #1. The orders for #2 are due before the #1 hits the shelves.

Give it a window after the first issue... compare #3 to #6 to see if readers like a book (or if it sells as well as dealers expected).

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by Tony_H »

greg wrote:Generally speaking, there's no point in comparing the sales of #1 issues to #2 issues to try to determine if readers liked the #1. The orders for #2 are due before the #1 hits the shelves.

Give it a window after the first issue... compare #3 to #6 to see if readers like a book (or if it sells as well as dealers expected).
Interesting insight--I learn something new every day. Thanks!

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by greg »

Tony_H wrote:
greg wrote:Generally speaking, there's no point in comparing the sales of #1 issues to #2 issues to try to determine if readers liked the #1. The orders for #2 are due before the #1 hits the shelves.

Give it a window after the first issue... compare #3 to #6 to see if readers like a book (or if it sells as well as dealers expected).
Interesting insight--I learn something new every day. Thanks!
One of the reasons that #3 and #4 issues are "low print" is that dealers keep decreasing orders after #1 until they can figure out if customers like a title. That takes them 2 or 3 months to figure out.
Rai #3 and Rai #4 are good examples from "back in the day". They are the lowest print early Valiant regular issues because it wasn't clear to retailers if a future Japan story would sell in an American superhero universe.
Even Harbinger #4 was low print... after Jim Shooter said Harbinger #1 was like a modern day Avengers #1. By the time orders for #4 were due, it wasn't clear if Harbinger books would sell.

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by Tony_H »

greg wrote:
Tony_H wrote:
greg wrote:Generally speaking, there's no point in comparing the sales of #1 issues to #2 issues to try to determine if readers liked the #1. The orders for #2 are due before the #1 hits the shelves.

Give it a window after the first issue... compare #3 to #6 to see if readers like a book (or if it sells as well as dealers expected).
Interesting insight--I learn something new every day. Thanks!
One of the reasons that #3 and #4 issues are "low print" is that dealers keep decreasing orders after #1 until they can figure out if customers like a title. That takes them 2 or 3 months to figure out.
Rai #3 and Rai #4 are good examples from "back in the day". They are the lowest print early Valiant regular issues because it wasn't clear to retailers if a future Japan story would sell in an American superhero universe.
Even Harbinger #4 was low print... after Jim Shooter said Harbinger #1 was like a modern day Avengers #1. By the time orders for #4 were due, it wasn't clear if Harbinger books would sell.
So that sales pattern has been in place a long time, meaning that publishing a 4-issue miniseries with new lead characters is a risky shot in the dark for any publisher, big or small.

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Re: Dead Drop #4

Post by greg »

Tony_H wrote:
greg wrote:
Tony_H wrote:
greg wrote:Generally speaking, there's no point in comparing the sales of #1 issues to #2 issues to try to determine if readers liked the #1. The orders for #2 are due before the #1 hits the shelves.

Give it a window after the first issue... compare #3 to #6 to see if readers like a book (or if it sells as well as dealers expected).
Interesting insight--I learn something new every day. Thanks!
One of the reasons that #3 and #4 issues are "low print" is that dealers keep decreasing orders after #1 until they can figure out if customers like a title. That takes them 2 or 3 months to figure out.
Rai #3 and Rai #4 are good examples from "back in the day". They are the lowest print early Valiant regular issues because it wasn't clear to retailers if a future Japan story would sell in an American superhero universe.
Even Harbinger #4 was low print... after Jim Shooter said Harbinger #1 was like a modern day Avengers #1. By the time orders for #4 were due, it wasn't clear if Harbinger books would sell.
So that sales pattern has been in place a long time, meaning that publishing a 4-issue miniseries with new lead characters is a risky shot in the dark for any publisher, big or small.
Perhaps. In the case of Divinity, though, if it had been a four-issue arc within Unity (say #18-#21), it's unlikely that #18 would have seen a big increase in orders as the first issue of a new arc. Divinity #1 of 4 sold more copies than Unity #18 (or a random Unity issue in the late teens). At that point, Valiant is already ahead on sales for the Divinity arc (versus keeping it in Unity). If Divinity #2 through #4 sell fewer copies than #1, but at least as many copies as the next three issues of Unity would have sold with the Divinity arc... then the whole miniseries is a success, even if the sales are only slightly higher than a regular series.


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