Dead Drop #4 Discussion
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- depluto
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Re: Dead Drop #4
Dead Drop is a good euphemism for "taking a poop."
I tried to like this and appreciate Valiant trying something different. But those kids were pretty powerful! I bet they could also beat Ninjak in a fistfight, hack Livewire's weave off her head, outdrink Armstrong and outgun Bloodshot.
I tried to like this and appreciate Valiant trying something different. But those kids were pretty powerful! I bet they could also beat Ninjak in a fistfight, hack Livewire's weave off her head, outdrink Armstrong and outgun Bloodshot.
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Re: Dead Drop #4
...and outlive Gilad.depluto wrote:Dead Drop is a good euphemism for "taking a poop."
I tried to like this and appreciate Valiant trying something different. But those kids were pretty powerful! I bet they could also beat Ninjak in a fistfight, hack Livewire's weave off her head, outdrink Armstrong and outgun Bloodshot.
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Re: Dead Drop #4
Okay, I thought some more about this today and something occurred to me. Forget all of the character anomalies and such for a moment, but it had terrible plotting.
It could have been an interesting mini: aliens, a killer virus, subterfuge with Neville, a chase, some new side characters, black market dealings... it had all of the elements.
The problem was that the entire two first issues were spent on the chase. There's a ton of ground to cover with all of these elements; the chase could have been limited to three or four pages, leaving tons of panel space to make more sense of the story.
That's just bad storytelling.
It could have been an interesting mini: aliens, a killer virus, subterfuge with Neville, a chase, some new side characters, black market dealings... it had all of the elements.
The problem was that the entire two first issues were spent on the chase. There's a ton of ground to cover with all of these elements; the chase could have been limited to three or four pages, leaving tons of panel space to make more sense of the story.
That's just bad storytelling.
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Re: Dead Drop #4
I just realized that you're right about this. Not even that it was stupid teenage hackers who did it, but that DEAD WASN'T DEAD!slack wrote:He brought a dead character back to life... With teenage parkour hackers.
That rubs me wrong. I don't care if it was a light hearted romp and shouldn't be taken this seriously. I feel now that I can't hold up that one thing anymore when describing to others how Valiant is different and better than the others. I mean, his freaking head was cut off! So what that they're brilliant hackers. Are they spinal surgeons on the side too? WTF!? The more I think about it, the more it bugs me. And it's only made worse by the fact of this violation of their code being part of this throw away, badly written story. Not even something important that I would consider forgiving them for breaking this cardinal rule. ("Oh, they brought back Kay with such and such reason for why she wasn't really dead? I don't like it, but I may be willing to forgive them if it's for something really awesome/important.") Nope, just because - that's why. As part of the worst written thing published by VEI so far. I am far from happy about this...



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Re: Dead Drop #4
As I've said elsewhere, I'm considering this story to have taken place in one of the Quantum & Woody alternate universes.
Re: Dead Drop #4
I just realized I forgot about this series
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Re: Dead Drop #4
+1 to all of that!BugsySig wrote:What
The
*SQUEE*?!?
While for the second issue in a row, I enjoyed a little development of a previously barely used character in Cejudo, this story made ZERO sense. How did the Alien get infected? Why were hose two kids even there? If the Alien had a cure, why not use it (unless it only worked on humans for some reason) to save himself? How would infecting the Earth have led to revenge against the planet the virus came from? How exactly would Cejudo have killed XO Manowar? How could rope hold a practically Omega level Psiot who can call upon almost any Psiot power to save himself? And to add to the questions above, how did 2 kids hack the XO armor and reattach Beta Max's head?
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to the Worst Writing thread and vote for Dead Drop.
However, let's not forget Gorham's art was excellent and I hope he gets more VEI work!

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Re: Dead Drop #4
#1 9,874Tony_H wrote:Anybody know what the sales figures for the series were? 1 was obviously a hit, but was much of that momentum sustained though 3 and 4?
#2 7,059
#3 5,899
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Re: Dead Drop #4
+2...good art.Dallow Spicer1 wrote:+1 to all of that!BugsySig wrote:What
The
*SQUEE*?!?
While for the second issue in a row, I enjoyed a little development of a previously barely used character in Cejudo, this story made ZERO sense. How did the Alien get infected? Why were hose two kids even there? If the Alien had a cure, why not use it (unless it only worked on humans for some reason) to save himself? How would infecting the Earth have led to revenge against the planet the virus came from? How exactly would Cejudo have killed XO Manowar? How could rope hold a practically Omega level Psiot who can call upon almost any Psiot power to save himself? And to add to the questions above, how did 2 kids hack the XO armor and reattach Beta Max's head?
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to the Worst Writing thread and vote for Dead Drop.
However, let's not forget Gorham's art was excellent and I hope he gets more VEI work!
Kurt Busiek wrote:Bull$#!t

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Re: Dead Drop #4
Thanks! So sales dropped 40% between 1 and 3. I'd guess that'd mean that readers at large held opinions similar to those voiced here on the board (and my own)...however, if I recall correctly, the Doctor Mirage series sales were also pretty low, even though many folks around these parts praised the heck out of it.mateo107 wrote:#1 9,874Tony_H wrote:Anybody know what the sales figures for the series were? 1 was obviously a hit, but was much of that momentum sustained though 3 and 4?
#2 7,059
#3 5,899
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Re: Dead Drop #4
A 40% drop between issues 1 and 2 is not uncommon, and is actually pretty respectable.Tony_H wrote:Thanks! So sales dropped 40% between 1 and 3. I'd guess that'd mean that readers at large held opinions similar to those voiced here on the board (and my own)...however, if I recall correctly, the Doctor Mirage series sales were also pretty low, even though many folks around these parts praised the heck out of it.mateo107 wrote:#1 9,874Tony_H wrote:Anybody know what the sales figures for the series were? 1 was obviously a hit, but was much of that momentum sustained though 3 and 4?
#2 7,059
#3 5,899
Kurt Busiek wrote:Bull$#!t

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Re: Dead Drop #4
Wow. Really? If that's a respectable margin, then you're saying that it's also not uncommon for books to drop off by 50%+? (BTW, I'm not challenging the validity of your assertion--I just don't follow comic sales stats regularly.)BugsySig wrote:A 40% drop between issues 1 and 2 is not uncommon, and is actually pretty respectable.Tony_H wrote:Thanks! So sales dropped 40% between 1 and 3. I'd guess that'd mean that readers at large held opinions similar to those voiced here on the board (and my own)...however, if I recall correctly, the Doctor Mirage series sales were also pretty low, even though many folks around these parts praised the heck out of it.mateo107 wrote:#1 9,874Tony_H wrote:Anybody know what the sales figures for the series were? 1 was obviously a hit, but was much of that momentum sustained though 3 and 4?
#2 7,059
#3 5,899
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Re: Dead Drop #4
I don't have numbers in front of me, but yes a 30-40% drop is considered very normal following a #1 issue. For really big releases it can often be more.Tony_H wrote:Wow. Really? If that's a respectable margin, then you're saying that it's also not uncommon for books to drop off by 50%+? (BTW, I'm not challenging the validity of your assertion--I just don't follow comic sales stats regularly.)BugsySig wrote:A 40% drop between issues 1 and 2 is not uncommon, and is actually pretty respectable.Tony_H wrote:Thanks! So sales dropped 40% between 1 and 3. I'd guess that'd mean that readers at large held opinions similar to those voiced here on the board (and my own)...however, if I recall correctly, the Doctor Mirage series sales were also pretty low, even though many folks around these parts praised the heck out of it.mateo107 wrote:#1 9,874Tony_H wrote:Anybody know what the sales figures for the series were? 1 was obviously a hit, but was much of that momentum sustained though 3 and 4?
#2 7,059
#3 5,899
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Re: Dead Drop #4
rocket raccoon is the craziest drop i've ever seen
293,000 #1s to 56,000 #2s
293,000 #1s to 56,000 #2s
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Re: Dead Drop #4
*SQUEE*!Brapbrap wrote:rocket raccoon is the craziest drop i've ever seen
293,000 #1s to 56,000 #2s
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Re: Dead Drop #4
Orphan Black #1, 497,000 copies in February 2015
Orphan Black #2, 10,652 copies in March 2015
Orphan Black #2, 10,652 copies in March 2015
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Re: Dead Drop #4
I would read a comic starring Beta-Max.
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Re: Dead Drop #4
+1Brother Darque wrote:I would read a comic starring Beta-Max.
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Re: Dead Drop #4
Both Rocket Racoon and Orphan Black were included in Loot Crate those months, so those are not really fair drops to compare against. Loot Crate has several hundred thousand subscribers right now.
Just looking at the highest selling second issue in July, and comparing with the first issue in June...
Amazing Spider-Man Renew Your Vows
#1: 203,565
#2: 93, 981
Just looking at the highest selling second issue in July, and comparing with the first issue in June...
Amazing Spider-Man Renew Your Vows
#1: 203,565
#2: 93, 981
Kurt Busiek wrote:Bull$#!t

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Re: Dead Drop #4
+1KXXX wrote:+1Brother Darque wrote:I would read a comic starring Beta-Max.
His issue here in DD helped, but he was always a sympathetic and likable character. He'd be great as an ongoing sidekick to QW, maybe as their personal assistant or something.
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Re: Dead Drop #4
Generally speaking, there's no point in comparing the sales of #1 issues to #2 issues to try to determine if readers liked the #1. The orders for #2 are due before the #1 hits the shelves.
Give it a window after the first issue... compare #3 to #6 to see if readers like a book (or if it sells as well as dealers expected).
Give it a window after the first issue... compare #3 to #6 to see if readers like a book (or if it sells as well as dealers expected).
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Re: Dead Drop #4
Interesting insight--I learn something new every day. Thanks!greg wrote:Generally speaking, there's no point in comparing the sales of #1 issues to #2 issues to try to determine if readers liked the #1. The orders for #2 are due before the #1 hits the shelves.
Give it a window after the first issue... compare #3 to #6 to see if readers like a book (or if it sells as well as dealers expected).
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Re: Dead Drop #4
One of the reasons that #3 and #4 issues are "low print" is that dealers keep decreasing orders after #1 until they can figure out if customers like a title. That takes them 2 or 3 months to figure out.Tony_H wrote:Interesting insight--I learn something new every day. Thanks!greg wrote:Generally speaking, there's no point in comparing the sales of #1 issues to #2 issues to try to determine if readers liked the #1. The orders for #2 are due before the #1 hits the shelves.
Give it a window after the first issue... compare #3 to #6 to see if readers like a book (or if it sells as well as dealers expected).
Rai #3 and Rai #4 are good examples from "back in the day". They are the lowest print early Valiant regular issues because it wasn't clear to retailers if a future Japan story would sell in an American superhero universe.
Even Harbinger #4 was low print... after Jim Shooter said Harbinger #1 was like a modern day Avengers #1. By the time orders for #4 were due, it wasn't clear if Harbinger books would sell.
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Re: Dead Drop #4
So that sales pattern has been in place a long time, meaning that publishing a 4-issue miniseries with new lead characters is a risky shot in the dark for any publisher, big or small.greg wrote:One of the reasons that #3 and #4 issues are "low print" is that dealers keep decreasing orders after #1 until they can figure out if customers like a title. That takes them 2 or 3 months to figure out.Tony_H wrote:Interesting insight--I learn something new every day. Thanks!greg wrote:Generally speaking, there's no point in comparing the sales of #1 issues to #2 issues to try to determine if readers liked the #1. The orders for #2 are due before the #1 hits the shelves.
Give it a window after the first issue... compare #3 to #6 to see if readers like a book (or if it sells as well as dealers expected).
Rai #3 and Rai #4 are good examples from "back in the day". They are the lowest print early Valiant regular issues because it wasn't clear to retailers if a future Japan story would sell in an American superhero universe.
Even Harbinger #4 was low print... after Jim Shooter said Harbinger #1 was like a modern day Avengers #1. By the time orders for #4 were due, it wasn't clear if Harbinger books would sell.
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Re: Dead Drop #4
Perhaps. In the case of Divinity, though, if it had been a four-issue arc within Unity (say #18-#21), it's unlikely that #18 would have seen a big increase in orders as the first issue of a new arc. Divinity #1 of 4 sold more copies than Unity #18 (or a random Unity issue in the late teens). At that point, Valiant is already ahead on sales for the Divinity arc (versus keeping it in Unity). If Divinity #2 through #4 sell fewer copies than #1, but at least as many copies as the next three issues of Unity would have sold with the Divinity arc... then the whole miniseries is a success, even if the sales are only slightly higher than a regular series.Tony_H wrote:So that sales pattern has been in place a long time, meaning that publishing a 4-issue miniseries with new lead characters is a risky shot in the dark for any publisher, big or small.greg wrote:One of the reasons that #3 and #4 issues are "low print" is that dealers keep decreasing orders after #1 until they can figure out if customers like a title. That takes them 2 or 3 months to figure out.Tony_H wrote:Interesting insight--I learn something new every day. Thanks!greg wrote:Generally speaking, there's no point in comparing the sales of #1 issues to #2 issues to try to determine if readers liked the #1. The orders for #2 are due before the #1 hits the shelves.
Give it a window after the first issue... compare #3 to #6 to see if readers like a book (or if it sells as well as dealers expected).
Rai #3 and Rai #4 are good examples from "back in the day". They are the lowest print early Valiant regular issues because it wasn't clear to retailers if a future Japan story would sell in an American superhero universe.
Even Harbinger #4 was low print... after Jim Shooter said Harbinger #1 was like a modern day Avengers #1. By the time orders for #4 were due, it wasn't clear if Harbinger books would sell.