Bloodshot & H.A.R.D. Corps #22 Discussion

[jmatt]

Mark Texiera. Give this guy some more work!

Thumbs up for Tex! And yes, the art was great!

[leonmallett]

I have really enjoyed the Bloodshot and HARDCorps era, and this issue may be the best of that for me. A brutal issue all around and one that underlined why I think there should be both Bloodshot and a HARDCorps books as their own publications following their own paths.

The writing was excellent, and the art worked well for me.

Excellent stuff.

[leonmallett]

I'm not familiar with Al Barrionuevo, certainly there are stronger artists at Valiant, but his style fits perfectly with this book. The opening scene with Genius was beautifully drawn with a nice touch of emotion and ultimately a painful shock.

Agreed, though small niutpick with him drawing pupils in Bloodshot's eyes. Hate it when artists do that!

Wow ... just noticed that Dysart's name is not attached to this issue. Considering the sharp dialougue - I thought for certain he had a big hand in this issue. Duffy Boudreau (sounds suspiciously canadian) is credited as the writer along with Gage. Congrats to both of them on a great opening issue to this arc.

In fact, I think I read that Gage really wasn't as involved in this issue, either. Like some Hollywood commitments came calling, so Valiant brought Boudreau in to do the lion's share of the writing.

That had not occurred to me; if so (and I am a fan of Gage's work that i have read in the past) then maybe VEI have unearthed another strong talent?

[leonmallett]

Very good issue. More akin to the pre-Harbinger Wars Bloodshot: very violent with a basic, driven plot.

Art was good, not great, but much better than the A&A crossover issues.

I have to agree with that.

[FormerReader]

Very good issue. More akin to the pre-Harbinger Wars Bloodshot: very violent with a basic, driven plot.

Art was good, not great, but much better than the A&A crossover issues.

I have to agree with that.

I completely agree! I had really been indifferent to the series for awhile now, which is really disappointing since I think VEI did a great job reinventing Bloodshot (I think this version is a vast improvment on the original). This issue really was a marked improvement for me.

[leonmallett]

Very good issue. More akin to the pre-Harbinger Wars Bloodshot: very violent with a basic, driven plot.

Art was good, not great, but much better than the A&A crossover issues.

I have to agree with that.

I completely agree! I had really been indifferent to the series for awhile now, which is really disappointing since I think VEI did a great job reinventing Bloodshot (I think this version is a vast improvment on the original). This issue really was a marked improvement for me.

So in the interest of debate, how would you feel about separate Bloodshot and HARDCorps ongoing? (I am trying to ignore that VEI is messing about with mini series so much).

[leonmallett]

I enjoyed Bloodshot more when he wasn't on a team, so I am fine with them letting the HARD Corps go their own way. Makes me wonder if it'll be it's own series; I think it has enough going for it to be one. I definitely enjoy reading them so I hope Palmer's story continues somehow.

I really dug this issue. After a while of average or "meh" issues it looks like the title is going back to its more brutal roots. Keep it coming! And I love the artist as well. Good fit for the book.

I hope HARDCorps and Bloodshot both have ongoings, but with the publishing strategy VEI are currently committed to, who knows how and when they will appear.

[BugsySig]

Very good issue. More akin to the pre-Harbinger Wars Bloodshot: very violent with a basic, driven plot.

Art was good, not great, but much better than the A&A crossover issues.

I have to agree with that.

I completely agree! I had really been indifferent to the series for awhile now, which is really disappointing since I think VEI did a great job reinventing Bloodshot (I think this version is a vast improvment on the original). This issue really was a marked improvement for me.

So in the interest of debate, how would you feel about separate Bloodshot and HARDCorps ongoing? (I am trying to ignore that VEI is messing about with mini series so much).

I've always felt Bloodshot works best on his own, with supporting characters of course, while JARD Corps works best in a support/background role.

My preference would be a Bloodshot solo ongoing and occasional HARD Corps minis with regular appearances in Harbinger and other titles on occasion.

[FormerReader]

Very good issue. More akin to the pre-Harbinger Wars Bloodshot: very violent with a basic, driven plot.

Art was good, not great, but much better than the A&A crossover issues.

I have to agree with that.

I completely agree! I had really been indifferent to the series for awhile now, which is really disappointing since I think VEI did a great job reinventing Bloodshot (I think this version is a vast improvment on the original). This issue really was a marked improvement for me.

So in the interest of debate, how would you feel about separate Bloodshot and HARDCorps ongoing? (I am trying to ignore that VEI is messing about with mini series so much).

I've always felt Bloodshot works best on his own, with supporting characters of course, while JARD Corps works best in a support/background role.

My preference would be a Bloodshot solo ongoing and occasional HARD Corps minis with regular appearances in Harbinger and other titles on occasion.

I feel the same way. I don't think that Hard Corps could hold a monthly title. Have minis when they have a writer who comes up with a good story, otherwise just have them as regular appearances in big events and in other titles. If they could separate them from Bloodshot more by bringing in their own villains I would be more inclined to give an ongoing a chance.

[grendeljd]

JARD Corps works best in a support/background role.

I'm now picturing Chibi versions of all the member of HARD Corps stuffed into jam jars...

[leonmallett]

I enjoyed Bloodshot more when he wasn't on a team, so I am fine with them letting the HARD Corps go their own way. Makes me wonder if it'll be it's own series; I think it has enough going for it to be one. I definitely enjoy reading them so I hope Palmer's story continues somehow.

I really dug this issue. After a while of average or "meh" issues it looks like the title is going back to its more brutal roots. Keep it coming! And I love the artist as well. Good fit for the book.

I hope HARDCorps and Bloodshot both have ongoings, but with the publishing strategy VEI are currently committed to, who knows how and when they will appear.

Very true. Valiant is smart in being careful not to flood the market with new titles, which is a good thing. I don't think there is a huge demand for the Hard Corps ongoing series out there unless they market it right, but really that would be my dream to have a Bloodshot ongoing and a Hard Corps ongoing that is more focused on hard boiled war tales. With Bloodshot they can focus more on the character and what makes him tic. Of course this is kind of a pipe dream...with Eternal Warrior being put on hold and Dr. Mirage coming out I don't think we will be seeing any new series for another year or so.

The funny thing is, I just don't buy the logic of not flooding the market.

Is 10 titles a flood? 12? 15?

The point is 9-10 books is little more than 8, and not much fewer than 12 - a couple of books difference, from a company that has varied its output month on month for a while now.

If VEI are so confident of their success, which they are always eager to proclaim, why not build on it rather than seemingly artificially restrict it, unless they fear that they have reached audience saturation for the time-being? (in which case are they worried they will cannibalize their own sales with more titles?).

If they want to play against IDW, Image, Dark horse etc., then 9 titles and holding steady is not going to change much. Growing their readership for individual books does not really seem to be happening, except with the odd peak. So if they trully want to grow, all that remains is producing more monthly titles surely?

Like I say, I just don't buy their argument for holding at 9 books. No doubt they have sound reasons why which they are keeping to themselves, but I suggest there is discrepancy between public statements and private decisions.

[FormerReader]

The funny thing is, I just don't buy the logic of not flooding the market.

Is 10 titles a flood? 12? 15?

The point is 9-10 books is little more than 8, and not much fewer than 12 - a couple of books difference, from a company that has varied its output month on month for a while now.

If VEI are so confident of their success, which they are always eager to proclaim, why not build on it rather than seemingly artificially restrict it, unless they fear that they have reached audience saturation for the time-being? (in which case are they worried they will cannibalize their own sales with more titles?).

If they want to play against IDW, Image, Dark horse etc., then 9 titles and holding steady is not going to change much. Growing their readership for individual books does not really seem to be happening, except with the odd peak. So if they trully want to grow, all that remains is producing more monthly titles surely?

Like I say, I just don't buy their argument for holding at 9 books. No doubt they have sound reasons why which they are keeping to themselves, but I suggest there is discrepancy between public statements and private decisions.

I think it is not so much a fear of flooding the market, but perhaps not having the personnel to edit more titles at the moment and maintain the quality. We have already seen some goofs with Eternal Warrior.

[leonmallett]

The funny thing is, I just don't buy the logic of not flooding the market.

Is 10 titles a flood? 12? 15?

The point is 9-10 books is little more than 8, and not much fewer than 12 - a couple of books difference, from a company that has varied its output month on month for a while now.

If VEI are so confident of their success, which they are always eager to proclaim, why not build on it rather than seemingly artificially restrict it, unless they fear that they have reached audience saturation for the time-being? (in which case are they worried they will cannibalize their own sales with more titles?).

If they want to play against IDW, Image, Dark horse etc., then 9 titles and holding steady is not going to change much. Growing their readership for individual books does not really seem to be happening, except with the odd peak. So if they trully want to grow, all that remains is producing more monthly titles surely?

Like I say, I just don't buy their argument for holding at 9 books. No doubt they have sound reasons why which they are keeping to themselves, but I suggest there is discrepancy between public statements and private decisions.

I think it is not so much a fear of flooding the market, but perhaps not having the personnel to edit more titles at the moment and maintain the quality. We have already seen some goofs with Eternal Warrior.

I think that is down to the skills of the editors and not necessarily the number of titles. One title less per month won't make much difference or suddenly bring about improvements.

Maybe they need to ask some tougher questions about the QC of their editing team.

[kjjohanson]

The funny thing is, I just don't buy the logic of not flooding the market.

Is 10 titles a flood? 12? 15?

The point is 9-10 books is little more than 8, and not much fewer than 12 - a couple of books difference, from a company that has varied its output month on month for a while now.

If VEI are so confident of their success, which they are always eager to proclaim, why not build on it rather than seemingly artificially restrict it, unless they fear that they have reached audience saturation for the time-being? (in which case are they worried they will cannibalize their own sales with more titles?).

If they want to play against IDW, Image, Dark horse etc., then 9 titles and holding steady is not going to change much. Growing their readership for individual books does not really seem to be happening, except with the odd peak. So if they trully want to grow, all that remains is producing more monthly titles surely?

Like I say, I just don't buy their argument for holding at 9 books. No doubt they have sound reasons why which they are keeping to themselves, but I suggest there is discrepancy between public statements and private decisions.

I think it is not so much a fear of flooding the market, but perhaps not having the personnel to edit more titles at the moment and maintain the quality. We have already seen some goofs with Eternal Warrior.

I think that is down to the skills of the editors and not necessarily the number of titles. one tile less per month won't make much difference.

Maybe they need to ask some tougher questions about QC of their editing team.

It's not just editors, but marketing people, sales people, production artists, etc. I've seen it mentioned in a few places that the staff regularly works pretty long hours. It could very well be that taking that step of adding a few more titles would entail a bunch of new people on the team. Could be (speculation here) that they're waiting for the lease on their current office to be up so they can move to a bigger place and expand the way they need to if they want to add to the line.

[leonmallett]

The funny thing is, I just don't buy the logic of not flooding the market.

Is 10 titles a flood? 12? 15?

The point is 9-10 books is little more than 8, and not much fewer than 12 - a couple of books difference, from a company that has varied its output month on month for a while now.

If VEI are so confident of their success, which they are always eager to proclaim, why not build on it rather than seemingly artificially restrict it, unless they fear that they have reached audience saturation for the time-being? (in which case are they worried they will cannibalize their own sales with more titles?).

If they want to play against IDW, Image, Dark horse etc., then 9 titles and holding steady is not going to change much. Growing their readership for individual books does not really seem to be happening, except with the odd peak. So if they trully want to grow, all that remains is producing more monthly titles surely?

Like I say, I just don't buy their argument for holding at 9 books. No doubt they have sound reasons why which they are keeping to themselves, but I suggest there is discrepancy between public statements and private decisions.

I think it is not so much a fear of flooding the market, but perhaps not having the personnel to edit more titles at the moment and maintain the quality. We have already seen some goofs with Eternal Warrior.

I think that is down to the skills of the editors and not necessarily the number of titles. one tile less per month won't make much difference.

Maybe they need to ask some tougher questions about QC of their editing team.

It's not just editors, but marketing people, sales people, production artists, etc. I've seen it mentioned in a few places that the staff regularly works pretty long hours. It could very well be that taking that step of adding a few more titles would entail a bunch of new people on the team. Could be (speculation here) that they're waiting for the lease on their current office to be up so they can move to a bigger place and expand the way they need to if they want to add to the line.

And those reasons make a LOT more sense than the not wanting to flood the market line.

[leonmallett]

I enjoyed Bloodshot more when he wasn't on a team, so I am fine with them letting the HARD Corps go their own way. Makes me wonder if it'll be it's own series; I think it has enough going for it to be one. I definitely enjoy reading them so I hope Palmer's story continues somehow.

I really dug this issue. After a while of average or "meh" issues it looks like the title is going back to its more brutal roots. Keep it coming! And I love the artist as well. Good fit for the book.

I hope HARDCorps and Bloodshot both have ongoings, but with the publishing strategy VEI are currently committed to, who knows how and when they will appear.

Very true. Valiant is smart in being careful not to flood the market with new titles, which is a good thing. I don't think there is a huge demand for the Hard Corps ongoing series out there unless they market it right, but really that would be my dream to have a Bloodshot ongoing and a Hard Corps ongoing that is more focused on hard boiled war tales. With Bloodshot they can focus more on the character and what makes him tic. Of course this is kind of a pipe dream...with Eternal Warrior being put on hold and Dr. Mirage coming out I don't think we will be seeing any new series for another year or so.

The funny thing is, I just don't buy the logic of not flooding the market.

Is 10 titles a flood? 12? 15?

The point is 9-10 books is little more than 8, and not much fewer than 12 - a couple of books difference, from a company that has varied its output month on month for a while now.

If VEI are so confident of their success, which they are always eager to proclaim, why not build on it rather than seemingly artificially restrict it, unless they fear that they have reached audience saturation for the time-being? (in which case are they worried they will cannibalize their own sales with more titles?).

If they want to play against IDW, Image, Dark horse etc., then 9 titles and holding steady is not going to change much. Growing their readership for individual books does not really seem to be happening, except with the odd peak. So if they trully want to grow, all that remains is producing more monthly titles surely?

Like I say, I just don't buy their argument for holding at 9 books. No doubt they have sound reasons why which they are keeping to themselves, but I suggest there is discrepancy between public statements and private decisions.

Your assumption is that the demand is there to buy more of these titles on a regular basis. Maybe it's not. Other comic companies fall back on franchise and movie tie-ins, so Valiant is already playing a different game being purely story and comic based. It's easier to keep the universe in line with fewer titles, easier to edit and spot inconsistencies with the story being told across the board, so that could play into the balancing act as well.

At least thats my BS reasoning.

No assumption - note that I said: "in which case are they worried they will cannibalize their own sales with more titles?"

[kjjohanson]

The funny thing is, I just don't buy the logic of not flooding the market.

Is 10 titles a flood? 12? 15?

The point is 9-10 books is little more than 8, and not much fewer than 12 - a couple of books difference, from a company that has varied its output month on month for a while now.

If VEI are so confident of their success, which they are always eager to proclaim, why not build on it rather than seemingly artificially restrict it, unless they fear that they have reached audience saturation for the time-being? (in which case are they worried they will cannibalize their own sales with more titles?).

If they want to play against IDW, Image, Dark horse etc., then 9 titles and holding steady is not going to change much. Growing their readership for individual books does not really seem to be happening, except with the odd peak. So if they trully want to grow, all that remains is producing more monthly titles surely?

Like I say, I just don't buy their argument for holding at 9 books. No doubt they have sound reasons why which they are keeping to themselves, but I suggest there is discrepancy between public statements and private decisions.

I think it is not so much a fear of flooding the market, but perhaps not having the personnel to edit more titles at the moment and maintain the quality. We have already seen some goofs with Eternal Warrior.

I think that is down to the skills of the editors and not necessarily the number of titles. one tile less per month won't make much difference.

Maybe they need to ask some tougher questions about QC of their editing team.

It's not just editors, but marketing people, sales people, production artists, etc. I've seen it mentioned in a few places that the staff regularly works pretty long hours. It could very well be that taking that step of adding a few more titles would entail a bunch of new people on the team. Could be (speculation here) that they're waiting for the lease on their current office to be up so they can move to a bigger place and expand the way they need to if they want to add to the line.

And those reasons make a LOT more sense than the not wanting to flood the market line.

Also, just a note about New York office space (in case I'm on the right track): it's really expensive, and if my own company's experience is any indication, it's really tough to get out of a lease early unless the company goes out of business.