Is VEI dead or dying?

[VEI Reborn]

if DH is a true winner when they relaunch dont doubt that could happen a inclusive universe is better then a split one and optioning does not take their rights away just a lot of the risk not a bad deal

Shooter could come up with a new universe and save Dark Horse the licensing fees.

I agree. I was just holding on to the last string of hope before I give up

The thing is, how many times can a person strike gold in regards to creating new characters? Look at the material from Defiant and Broadway. While I enjoyed a lot of the stuff he came up with, it pales in comparison to what he did with Valiant. I think it's not very likely that Jim will be able to duplicate that again. Imagine asking Lee and Kirby to make another Marvel Universe just as good as the original. Both have done a lot of things since that time and neither has come up with anything close to the magic of the early days of Marvel.

I think Jim will probably do a great job revamping the GK characters, but as far as creating another comic universe that has the same impact as Valiant, that would certainly be an unprecedented accomplishment.

Hmmm good point. I guess the BOTTOM line is....and excuse my language....

But VEI needs to put out some ferkin material for us already!

[400yrs]

if DH is a true winner when they relaunch dont doubt that could happen a inclusive universe is better then a split one and optioning does not take their rights away just a lot of the risk not a bad deal

Shooter could come up with a new universe and save Dark Horse the licensing fees.

I agree. I was just holding on to the last string of hope before I give up

Yep. I meant "best case scenario" for the fans of course as it's obvious that this won't happen now.

[400yrs]

The thing is, how many times can a person strike gold in regards to creating new characters?

We'll find out. My guess is once. He caught lightning in a boothle with VH1. I don't think it will happen again. As you mention, Defiant and Broadway weren't that great compared to Valiant.

[leonmallett]

if DH is a true winner when they relaunch dont doubt that could happen a inclusive universe is better then a split one and optioning does not take their rights away just a lot of the risk not a bad deal

Shooter could come up with a new universe and save Dark Horse the licensing fees.

I agree. I was just holding on to the last string of hope before I give up

The thing is, how many times can a person strike gold in regards to creating new characters? Look at the material from Defiant and Broadway. While I enjoyed a lot of the stuff he came up with, it pales in comparison to what he did with Valiant. I think it's not very likely that Jim will be able to duplicate that again. Imagine asking Lee and Kirby to make another Marvel Universe just as good as the original. Both have done a lot of things since that time and neither has come up with anything close to the magic of the early days of Marvel.

I think Jim will probably do a great job revamping the GK characters, but as far as creating another comic universe that has the same impact as Valiant, that would certainly be an unprecedented accomplishment.

I believe you are right that he won't manage the same qualitative success in creating a new universe, but the real point is that he doesn't need to.

This is a small part of the DH comic book portfolio, it doesn't need to have a level of success or breadth of line comparable to VALIANT simply because for VALIANT their continued survival was dependent on that particular line, whereas for DH it isn't.

[superman-prime]

defiant and browdway did not get as long to make a rich universe either

[Daniel Jackson]

defiant and browdway did not get as long to make a rich universe either

Good point, but just look at how quickly Jim was able to establish the magic of early Valiant. Magnus, Solar, X-O, Harby....all great stuff right from the first few issues.

[superman-prime]

true there the first 2 years of valiant is the best but the last 5 years of defiant could have rocked

[Daniel Jackson]

true there the first 2 years of valiant is the best but the last 5 years of defiant could have rocked

I liked the unique qualities that some of the characters and stories of Defiant possessed, but there was just nothing really outstanding that stood out.

Good yes, but not great.

[superman-prime]

plasm was good the rest was meh

[Crow331]

I dunno, I loved Dark Dominion. It was probably ahead of quite a few Valiant titles as far as quality for me

[xodacia81]

I dunno, I loved Dark Dominion. It was probably ahead of quite a few Valiant titles as far as quality for me

I have to say, DD is a title that really grew on me and, when reading it last year, for the first time, I became sadder and sadder as each issue finished, knowing how little of that rare greatness I had left to read.

[Draco]

I dunno, I loved Dark Dominion. It was probably ahead of quite a few Valiant titles as far as quality for me

DD was really cool.
My fave for sure.

[etos45]

I believe you are right that he won't manage the same qualitative success in creating a new universe, but the real point is that he doesn't need to.

This is a small part of the DH comic book portfolio, it doesn't need to have a level of success or breadth of line comparable to VALIANT simply because for VALIANT their continued survival was dependent on that particular line, whereas for DH it isn't.

I agree a lot with this. The new Shooter issues won't have to blow people away and take the comic world by storm because DH is already well established and doing quite well. All he really has to do is write good stories and I think fans of GK and Valiant will be happy. He may pick up new readers at the same time, but I think most of this (much like most of DH) is geared towards those already fans.

Valiant was a phenomenon and while Shooter did great things before and after, I really think that this was his masterpiece. I don't expect to see it happen ever again, but I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong.

As for what this means for VEI, I think it provides a real opportunity for them to make Valiant their own and get out of the shadow of Shooter. I think it's highly possible to make Valiant great again just by being a stickler for detail and continuity while writing interesting stories. It doesn't necessarily need Shooter to be great, he just would have been more of a fan pleaser.

All in all it's a win for the fans. With any luck, Valiant will see an ongoing series again and fans will get to see their favorite characters in new stories and at the same time those who love Shooter and the GK3 characters will get to see them return in new stories as well (seeing as it wasn't looking good for VEI to get those properties anyways). In the end everyone wins.

[wrunow]

I believe you are right that he won't manage the same qualitative success in creating a new universe, but the real point is that he doesn't need to.

This is a small part of the DH comic book portfolio, it doesn't need to have a level of success or breadth of line comparable to VALIANT simply because for VALIANT their continued survival was dependent on that particular line, whereas for DH it isn't.

I agree a lot with this. The new Shooter issues won't have to blow people away and take the comic world by storm because DH is already well established and doing quite well. All he really has to do is write good stories and I think fans of GK and Valiant will be happy. He may pick up new readers at the same time, but I think most of this (much like most of DH) is geared towards those already fans.

Valiant was a phenomenon and while Shooter did great things before and after, I really think that this was his masterpiece. I don't expect to see it happen ever again, but I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong.

As for what this means for VEI, I think it provides a real opportunity for them to make Valiant their own and get out of the shadow of Shooter. I think it's highly possible to make Valiant great again just by being a stickler for detail and continuity while writing interesting stories. It doesn't necessarily need Shooter to be great, he just would have been more of a fan pleaser.

All in all it's a win for the fans. With any luck, Valiant will see an ongoing series again and fans will get to see their favorite characters in new stories and at the same time those who love Shooter and the GK3 characters will get to see them return in new stories as well (seeing as it wasn't looking good for VEI to get those properties anyways). In the end everyone wins.

Nice post

[superman-prime]

Great post

[Daniel Jackson]

I dunno, I loved Dark Dominion. It was probably ahead of quite a few Valiant titles as far as quality for me

DD was really cool.
My fave for sure.

Dark Dominion and early issues of Plasm were the best of Defiant, that's for sure.

[leonmallett]

Still nothing.


I plan to post at least once a month in this thread simply because I don't think VEI are going to publish comic books, and though it may make me a negative nelly, and I want to be proved wrong, I don't think I will be...

Okay, sticking to my promise (I wonder if VEI have stuck to their promise of generating new comic book material by years end - that was in refernece to 2008, wasn't it?), here we go again.

The depressing truth is that it doesn't appear that VEI are planning to act as a comic book publisher any time soon.

There are a few good signs for the super-hero comic book market outside of the traditional DC and Marvel stables of characters: Dark Horse committing to the GK4, DC licensing some older universes and so on. hey Maybe Disney will fold the Crossgen properties over to Marvel when the deal goes through - imagine that...

Just checking out the VEI site:
- VEI acquired the rights in 2005.
- last news story was December 2008.
- the last linked press release was September 2008.
- the last publication from VEI was Archer & Armstrong which was very nearly one year ago.
- I am not aware of any announcement regarding Editor in Chief or any creative posts.

I feel VEI is done, and has been for some time, and perhaps was never intending to prublish new comic books, basically going into limbo until they get some Hollywood interest.

Please correct any mistakes I may have made, but with each month I am more certain that this was never about regular comic book publication on a monthly basis but simply trying to chase the Hollywood dollar, with new comic books as a tertiary concern (guessing Hollywood and the knowck-on merchandise as primary and secondary foci).

I write this because I think VEI have been dishonest with some loyal fans that they have. Their is no requirement for the them to be honest, and honesty may have been counter-productive to their primary focus (or at least what I have perceieved for some time to be their primary focus), but I feel they (VEI) have falsely raised hopes and expectations.

[ian_house]

Still nothing.


I plan to post at least once a month in this thread simply because I don't think VEI are going to publish comic books, and though it may make me a negative nelly, and I want to be proved wrong, I don't think I will be...

Okay, sticking to my promise (I wonder if VEI have stuck to their promise of generating new comic book material by years end - that was in refernece to 2008, wasn't it?), here we go again.

The depressing truth is that it doesn't appear that VEI are planning to act as a comic book publisher any time soon.

There are a few good signs for the super-hero comic book market outside of the traditional DC and Marvel stables of characters: Dark Horse committing to the GK4, DC licensing some older universes and so on. hey Maybe Disney will fold the Crossgen properties over to Marvel when the deal goes through - imagine that...

Just checking out the VEI site:
- VEI acquired the rights in 2005.
- last news story was December 2008.
- the last linked press release was September 2008.
- the last publication from VEI was Archer & Armstrong which was very nearly one year ago.
- I am not aware of any announcement regarding Editor in Chief or any creative posts.

I feel VEI is done, and has been for some time, and perhaps was never intending to prublish new comic books, basically going into limbo until they get some Hollywood interest.

Please correct any mistakes I may have made, but with each month I am more certain that this was never about regular comic book publication on a monthly basis but simply trying to chase the Hollywood dollar, with new comic books as a tertiary concern (guessing Hollywood and the knowck-on merchandise as primary and secondary foci).

I write this because I think VEI have been dishonest with some loyal fans that they have. Their is no requirement for the them to be honest, and honesty may have been counter-productive to their primary focus (or at least what I have perceieved for some time to be their primary focus), but I feel they (VEI) have falsely raised hopes and expectations.

I think we're all a little dissapointed by the lack of comics BUT we don't have anywhere near enough info to say we've been misled or lied to.

IF VEI are never going to release comics then there are loads of possible reasons. Most of them financial. Remember they bought the company in 2005 before the economic crash, they're major investors could have been affected by this.

I always thought the movie was just some rubbish to get publicity for Valiant personally. It has never passed the rights to Harbinger, especially with Brett Ratner (if he ever was going to direct) moving companies and working on other things.

I don't think VEI have been dishonest. I just think they're in trouble and a company cannot admit they are in trouble or all investment will go elsewhere.

[Draco]

maybe they didnt use investors to buy the stock?

Im sure somone will gladly correct me on that.

[Phantom..]

How long does it take to start a comic book company!
Maybe they have day jobs aswell!
Maybe they have family and children ~ other things taking priorty over a hobby.

Maybe just maybe ~ it's taking longer than they thought

But what do I know , I am just a builder.

[leonmallett]

I think we're all a little dissapointed by the lack of comics BUT we don't have anywhere near enough info to say we've been misled or lied to.

I think 'lie' is a strong word and I certainly would not call VEI liars. However, their silence has meant that while the focus for many fans on this board is on the comics they want to see as a priority over movies etc, if I am not mistaken, especially as they (VEI) are viewed as the heirs apparent to the VALIANT legacy. Which I think has not necessarily been corrected or clarified by VEI.

Or to put it another way - were consumers for the HC's buying them to support a company they hoped would be:
- publishing monthly books as a primary concern?
- presenting an ongoing release of VALIANT HC's as archives as a primary concern?
- securing Hollywood deals as a primary concern?
- none of the above?

If the either of the first two, therein lies a problem in my view, especially as nothing new has been published in 12 months. Each month of operation incurs costs, with likely diminishing returns on the few products they have, meaning less captial to invest in big projects. Like say, new hardcovers or new comics.

IF VEI are never going to release comics then there are loads of possible reasons. Most of them financial. Remember they bought the company in 2005 before the economic crash, they're major investors could have been affected by this.

Fair comment.

I always thought the movie was just some rubbish to get publicity for Valiant personally. It has never passed the rights to Harbinger, especially with Brett Ratner (if he ever was going to direct) moving companies and working on other things.

I disagree - I think stuff like that was always the goal for VEI. Now that is purely speculation on my part based on the circumstantial evidence of their press release focus and so forth, but I think they are aiming to secure that kind of licensing to make the company work, which as I have pointed before out is an odd way for a comic book publisher to work, really. That is if they are a comic book publisher, which thus far they have not been.

I don't think VEI have been dishonest. I just think they're in trouble and a company cannot admit they are in trouble or all investment will go elsewhere.

Fair comment, but I point to apost from over 12 months ago:

Monthlies!

By the end of the year!

Generating. Not publishing. No release date information has been announced yet.
...
Careful not to confuse it with rumors and hearsay. Official statements are always in the Valiant Announcements section and at ValiantEntertainment.com

Did they really begin 'generating' new material by the end of 2008? Without an EiC?

Yes dino was careful to say - we will provide the facts - and credit to him for that. He was clear to set no publishing date. Yet we are a year on from that comment and still nothing on the horizon to appear this year, with only one window of solicitations remaining if I am not mistaken. In addition there have been no new press releases or news announcements from VEI on their own site during 2009. The only significant change that I have seen in that time is one of an attitude of openness in listing personel becoming now a guarded piece of information.

I just feel that since there has been a strong showing of support from board members, who are expecting new comic books - for example people asking LCS' to order the HC's for them to raise retailer awareness despite cheaper alternatives (which I also tried to do but couldn't obtain the Harbinger book that way due to the Diamond ordering complications), dino recognising that people are spreading the word:

re: Harbinger HC:

got three people who all agree to add it to their next ebay lots

woohooooo !!!

Thanks for helping get the word out guys

Much Appreciated.

that if people's expectations haven't been corrected then that is what I feel is wrong.


Now posts like mine and those of other cocnerned individuals could be the very reason that dino and TimeWillTell doesn't post very much, and apologies if that is the case.

[leonmallett]

How long does it take to start a comic book company!
Maybe they have day jobs aswell!
Maybe they have family and children ~ other things taking priorty over a hobby.

Maybe just maybe ~ it's taking longer than they thought

But what do I know , I am just a builder.

Not just a builder, I am sure mate.

[sanman]

I just feel that since there has been a strong showing of support from board members, who are expecting new comic books - for example people asking LCS' to order the HC's for them to raise retailer awareness despite cheaper alternatives (which I also tried to do but couldn't obtain the Harbinger book that way due to the Diamond ordering complications), dino recognising that people are spreading the word:

re: Harbinger HC:

got three people who all agree to add it to their next ebay lots

woohooooo !!!

Thanks for helping get the word out guys

Much Appreciated.

that if people's expectations haven't been corrected then that is what I feel is wrong.


Now posts like mine and those of other cocnerned individuals could be the very reason that dino and TimeWillTell doesn't post very much, and apologies if that is the case.

Great point. I mostly bought the HCs in anticipation of new comics. It’s not that I was trying to do Dino and company a favor but I wanted to get into the new Valiant from the start.

Whatever momentum or publicity was hoped for in publishing the HCs is probably lost. The company got derailed in releasing Harbinger because of VIP, and while X-O came out fine A&A was delayed by several months for unknown reasons. And now there’s been no communication for a year. If VEI is to move forward it has to reestablish momentum and make amends among those disappointed.

This will be my last post concerning VEI without having any additional information—why write any more? I’m moving on with DH and Shooter. As far as my involvement on the boards, I’m here to stay—you guys are great (that and I’m close to 1,000 posts ).

[ian_house]

I think we're all a little dissapointed by the lack of comics BUT we don't have anywhere near enough info to say we've been misled or lied to.

I think 'lie' is a strong word and I certainly would not call VEI liars. However, their silence has meant that while the focus for many fans on this board is on the comics they want to see as a priority over movies etc, if I am not mistaken, especially as they (VEI) are viewed as the heirs apparent to the VALIANT legacy. Which I think has not necessarily been corrected or clarified by VEI.

Or to put it another way - were consumers for the HC's buying them to support a company they hoped would be:
- publishing monthly books as a primary concern?
- presenting an ongoing release of VALIANT HC's as archives as a primary concern?
- securing Hollywood deals as a primary concern?
- none of the above?

If the either of the first two, therein lies a problem in my view, especially as nothing new has been published in 12 months. Each month of operation incurs costs, with likely diminishing returns on the few products they have, meaning less captial to invest in big projects. Like say, new hardcovers or new comics.

IF VEI are never going to release comics then there are loads of possible reasons. Most of them financial. Remember they bought the company in 2005 before the economic crash, they're major investors could have been affected by this.

Fair comment.

I always thought the movie was just some rubbish to get publicity for Valiant personally. It has never passed the rights to Harbinger, especially with Brett Ratner (if he ever was going to direct) moving companies and working on other things.

I disagree - I think stuff like that was always the goal for VEI. Now that is purely speculation on my part based on the circumstantial evidence of their press release focus and so forth, but I think they are aiming to secure that kind of licensing to make the company work, which as I have pointed before out is an odd way for a comic book publisher to work, really. That is if they are a comic book publisher, which thus far they have not been.

I don't think VEI have been dishonest. I just think they're in trouble and a company cannot admit they are in trouble or all investment will go elsewhere.

Fair comment, but I point to apost from over 12 months ago:

Monthlies!

By the end of the year!

Generating. Not publishing. No release date information has been announced yet.
...
Careful not to confuse it with rumors and hearsay. Official statements are always in the Valiant Announcements section and at ValiantEntertainment.com

Did they really begin 'generating' new material by the end of 2008? Without an EiC?

Yes dino was careful to say - we will provide the facts - and credit to him for that. He was clear to set no publishing date. Yet we are a year on from that comment and still nothing on the horizon to appear this year, with only one window of solicitations remaining if I am not mistaken. In addition there have been no new press releases or news announcements from VEI on their own site during 2009. The only significant change that I have seen in that time is one of an attitude of openness in listing personel becoming now a guarded piece of information.

I just feel that since there has been a strong showing of support from board members, who are expecting new comic books - for example people asking LCS' to order the HC's for them to raise retailer awareness despite cheaper alternatives (which I also tried to do but couldn't obtain the Harbinger book that way due to the Diamond ordering complications), dino recognising that people are spreading the word:

re: Harbinger HC:

got three people who all agree to add it to their next ebay lots

woohooooo !!!

Thanks for helping get the word out guys

Much Appreciated.

that if people's expectations haven't been corrected then that is what I feel is wrong.


Now posts like mine and those of other cocnerned individuals could be the very reason that dino and TimeWillTell doesn't post very much, and apologies if that is the case.

All good points and I can definetly see where you're coming from man.

I do agree that an update of sorts, even if negative would be nice.

[damien308]

i remember defiant but broadway ?