Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer

[depluto]

Good post Rico.

For sure ... +1

[Donovan]

The tools to accomplish what you need are there. You're only limited by your desire to get it done, or some principle of how much work you should or shouldn't need to do to achieve it. And that's valid and understandable!

[Elveen]

So they point people to the email, and answer when?

Again, try just emailing a brief question about what to do if you're an international customer.

Leave out criticisms of the promotion itself, because there's nothing YOU are going to do to change it now, and there's no comment they'll have for you that's going to change your mind.

Otherwise, you are no doubt prioritized WAY down the list, as there's no immediate action item for them to tend to.

"CAN YOU HELP INTERNATIONAL FANS GET THESE BOOKS THROUGH THEIR PREFERRED CHANNELS?"

Hit send.

Donovan - at this point, it seems that I work to engage VEI, but they do not reciprocate. Not exactly encouraging me to try again.

By your advice, they may as well as caveat their contact email page with something like "Please keep all emails to 140 characters or less. Y'now, because."

Sorry for the sarcasm, but they say email, I email. I can do so again, but not loving the idea of jumping through hoops that are of VEI's creation just because hey, I would like to read a comic book roughly when it comes out.

I personally know many peeps ( some I have met at shows) that have emailed VEI no problem.
Infact I'd say that one of the things VEI is known for is accessibility with the fans.

Also. VEI is not stopping you from reading this book.

[paradise]

Interesting comment on Facebook re: DCBS on this. Now this is a poster reporting what DCBS said, so read into that what you will, as well as how the poster has couched it (and accepting that the reply from DCBS may have been taken out of context):

https://www.facebook.com/ValiantComics/ ... %22R%22%7D" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I contacted DCBS about it and asked THEM to contact valiant concerning this, which they actually did. They basically blew them off. Since DCBS has pushed Valiant HARD since the very first new book, X-0 #1, and is a LARGE part of why Valiant has done as well as they have, well, that's really all I need to know. $110 million has apparently made them think they can do whatever they want. They have learned nothing from the history of their own company or the industry as a whole. If they are not bankrupt and out of business in 5 years, I will be VERY surprised. I have cancelled my titles and will laugh when their comics fail and their movies bomb. They basically just slapped their ***** across the faces of the people who put them in the position to be given the DMG money. I hope they enjoy while it lasts, because it WON'T last.

OK, so first of all it's someone's comment about what someone said, and then that first guy's opinion about it. I doubt DCBS feels left out by VEI as they make a ton of money on VEI books. And it's not about the DMG money. Anyone thinking that is an idiot (sorry if it's someone here too). VEI wants to continue the tradition established by original Valiant of pushing the crap out of the envelope on promoting the brand. This is one of their many attempts to do something different. There will be others, and not everyone will like every one of them. I don't see anyone complaining about the gold books.

Here is the thing. It is NOT VEI's fault that DCBS did not look at the order form which clearly listed the book as a 1:25 incentive right in the solicitation. VEI were made aware that DCBS and a couple of other sites were selling the Legends book as a regular cover price book. I am sure they did not want DCBS to look bad, and I would assume contact was made, and the listing was fixed. So that's on DCBS. I hope nobody expects DCBS to honor that $2.00 price or anything like that. They may still do it, but they don't have to. It was an honest mistake.

Here is my final thought on this matter, I will not post in this thread any more:

One more time:

- It's really cheap to order the books ($20 for 25 copies)
- They are returnable, but at that price, any retailer who does not try to sell them is an idiot, refusing $3.20 mark up on 80 cents
- There are 5 covers to choose from, to promote buying multiple copies
- There are 1:10 and 1:20 variants to help offset the tiny cost.
- There is a guy (Atom) who will call for you personally and try to convince the store.

Any retailer who can't sell one of each cover plus 2 variants and Legends (7 books) for $25 and still have 20 extra books for free does not deserve to have a store, whether they return books or not.

And if you will read everything from them except this book, your world will not end. And if you think that it will, then go ahead and quit, because you have bigger problems, it seems. And you are punishing yourself more than you are punishing VEI by quitting, so I don't expect anyone to do it.

[leonmallett]

...And if you will read everything from them except this book, your world will not end. And if you think that it will, then go ahead and quit, because you have bigger problems, it seems. And you are punishing yourself more than you are punishing VEI by quitting, so I don't expect anyone to do it.

Excuse me Ed; please find where I have said I would quit over this? thanks. I point that out since you are responding to my quote.

[leonmallett]

So they point people to the email, and answer when?

Again, try just emailing a brief question about what to do if you're an international customer.

Leave out criticisms of the promotion itself, because there's nothing YOU are going to do to change it now, and there's no comment they'll have for you that's going to change your mind.

Otherwise, you are no doubt prioritized WAY down the list, as there's no immediate action item for them to tend to.

"CAN YOU HELP INTERNATIONAL FANS GET THESE BOOKS THROUGH THEIR PREFERRED CHANNELS?"

Hit send.

Donovan - at this point, it seems that I work to engage VEI, but they do not reciprocate. Not exactly encouraging me to try again.

By your advice, they may as well as caveat their contact email page with something like "Please keep all emails to 140 characters or less. Y'now, because."

Sorry for the sarcasm, but they say email, I email. I can do so again, but not loving the idea of jumping through hoops that are of VEI's creation just because hey, I would like to read a comic book roughly when it comes out.

I personally know many peeps ( some I have met at shows) that have emailed VEI no problem.
Infact I'd say that one of the things VEI is known for is accessibility with the fans.

Also. VEI is not stopping you from reading this book.

Well interestingly I have have had a PM here, but no email.

As for the last comment; don't assume distribution works the same everywhere, please.

[paradise]

...And if you will read everything from them except this book, your world will not end. And if you think that it will, then go ahead and quit, because you have bigger problems, it seems. And you are punishing yourself more than you are punishing VEI by quitting, so I don't expect anyone to do it.

Excuse me Ed; please find where I have said I would quit over this? thanks. I point that out since you are responding to my quote.

I did not mean YOU specifically but rather YOU as a group (you know who you are).

I promised not to post in this thread anymore. This is like giving up smoking.

[Elveen]

So they point people to the email, and answer when?

Again, try just emailing a brief question about what to do if you're an international customer.

Leave out criticisms of the promotion itself, because there's nothing YOU are going to do to change it now, and there's no comment they'll have for you that's going to change your mind.

Otherwise, you are no doubt prioritized WAY down the list, as there's no immediate action item for them to tend to.

"CAN YOU HELP INTERNATIONAL FANS GET THESE BOOKS THROUGH THEIR PREFERRED CHANNELS?"

Hit send.

Donovan - at this point, it seems that I work to engage VEI, but they do not reciprocate. Not exactly encouraging me to try again.

By your advice, they may as well as caveat their contact email page with something like "Please keep all emails to 140 characters or less. Y'now, because."

Sorry for the sarcasm, but they say email, I email. I can do so again, but not loving the idea of jumping through hoops that are of VEI's creation just because hey, I would like to read a comic book roughly when it comes out.

I personally know many peeps ( some I have met at shows) that have emailed VEI no problem.
Infact I'd say that one of the things VEI is known for is accessibility with the fans.

Also. VEI is not stopping you from reading this book.

Well interestingly I have have had a PM here, but no email.

As for the last comment; don't assume distribution works the same everywhere, please.

However distribution works anywhere, VEI is not stopping you from reading the book.
Their job is to make the book, it will be made, therefore it can be read.
Any stopping is controlled by the consumer.
Even if only 10 total copies were made, that means the consumer has 10 chances to get it.
I will acknowledge that there appears to be a different effort to read it, but they are not stopping anyone from reading it.
That is my point.

[agent_graves]

How Valiant Comics Lost a Dedicated Fan…
https://comicspectrumblog.wordpress.com ... ost-a-fan/



so he's reading (and I assume enjoying) a majority of Valiant titles, he can't get one mini-series at the price point he wants so he's out on all Valiant titles...

Seriously...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDuAlxVu4zs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And yes, I watched it, the first 40 seconds, lmao, the whole time...

At this point, this sh!t is entertainment

[wwise03]

Ok I think I can convince my LCS owner to order 50 books to get 2 copies of Legends based on the fact that it is .80 cents for him.

But what about issue 2-4 of Book of Death? Will those be .80 cents for him as well?

[paradise]

Ok I think I can convince my LCS owner to order 50 books to get 2 copies of Legends based on the fact that it is .80 cents for him.

But what about issue 2-4 of Book of Death? Will those be .80 cents for him as well?

The other 3 issues will be incentivised for stores. Details will be released soon, can't talk about it until then.

[paradise]

How Valiant Comics Lost a Dedicated Fan…
https://comicspectrumblog.wordpress.com ... ost-a-fan/



so he's reading (and I assume enjoying) a majority of Valiant titles, he can't get one mini-series at the price point he wants so he's out on all Valiant titles...

Seriously...

I know this dude personally, from the store and the cons. He's got a huge head because it was published somewhere that he's apparently got more books than god. He won't quit anything, he's a hoarder of comics.

[Intrepidxc]

Interesting comment on Facebook re: DCBS on this. Now this is a poster reporting what DCBS said, so read into that what you will, as well as how the poster has couched it (and accepting that the reply from DCBS may have been taken out of context):

https://www.facebook.com/ValiantComics/ ... %22R%22%7D" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I contacted DCBS about it and asked THEM to contact valiant concerning this, which they actually did. They basically blew them off. Since DCBS has pushed Valiant HARD since the very first new book, X-0 #1, and is a LARGE part of why Valiant has done as well as they have, well, that's really all I need to know. $110 million has apparently made them think they can do whatever they want. They have learned nothing from the history of their own company or the industry as a whole. If they are not bankrupt and out of business in 5 years, I will be VERY surprised. I have cancelled my titles and will laugh when their comics fail and their movies bomb. They basically just slapped their ***** across the faces of the people who put them in the position to be given the DMG money. I hope they enjoy while it lasts, because it WON'T last.

OK, so first of all it's someone's comment about what someone said, and then that first guy's opinion about it. I doubt DCBS feels left out by VEI as they make a ton of money on VEI books. And it's not about the DMG money. Anyone thinking that is an idiot (sorry if it's someone here too). VEI wants to continue the tradition established by original Valiant of pushing the crap out of the envelope on promoting the brand. This is one of their many attempts to do something different. There will be others, and not everyone will like every one of them. I don't see anyone complaining about the gold books.

Here is the thing. It is NOT VEI's fault that DCBS did not look at the order form which clearly listed the book as a 1:25 incentive right in the solicitation. VEI were made aware that DCBS and a couple of other sites were selling the Legends book as a regular cover price book. I am sure they did not want DCBS to look bad, and I would assume contact was made, and the listing was fixed. So that's on DCBS. I hope nobody expects DCBS to honor that $2.00 price or anything like that. They may still do it, but they don't have to. It was an honest mistake.

Here is my final thought on this matter, I will not post in this thread any more:

One more time:

- It's really cheap to order the books ($20 for 25 copies)
- They are returnable, but at that price, any retailer who does not try to sell them is an idiot, refusing $3.20 mark up on 80 cents
- There are 5 covers to choose from, to promote buying multiple copies
- There are 1:10 and 1:20 variants to help offset the tiny cost.
- There is a guy (Atom) who will call for you personally and try to convince the store.

Any retailer who can't sell one of each cover plus 2 variants and Legends (7 books) for $25 and still have 20 extra books for free does not deserve to have a store, whether they return books or not.

And if you will read everything from them except this book, your world will not end. And if you think that it will, then go ahead and quit, because you have bigger problems, it seems. And you are punishing yourself more than you are punishing VEI by quitting, so I don't expect anyone to do it.

[wwise03]

Ok I think I can convince my LCS owner to order 50 books to get 2 copies of Legends based on the fact that it is .80 cents for him.

But what about issue 2-4 of Book of Death? Will those be .80 cents for him as well?

The other 3 issues will be incentivised for stores. Details will be released soon, can't talk about it until then.

Thanks for the response. Any details you can give me will help. I've got to try to convince my LCS owner to order 25 books of something he can probably sell 3 of (5 if he's lucky).

I don't think I will be able to do that if I tell him, "Don't worry dude, books 2-3 will be incentivized...but don't ask any questions, my source can't talk about it. Just trust me."

I can't believe how much time I have wasted on this debacle. Whether Valiant was right or wrong to try this ploy, it has backfired from a media relations standpoint. Hopefully this is the last time they try this nonsense.

[paradise]

I don't think I will be able to do that if I tell him, "Don't worry dude, books 2-3 will be incentivized...but don't ask any questions, my source can't talk about it. Just trust me."

In the next week or two, the retailer will receive a Previews magazine that will describe to them all the incentives and costs. It's not like they are not informed about EVERYTHING. THey just choose to put in a minimum effort, which is not a way to run a business.

[greg]

Hi David, thanks for reaching out. Let me assure you we do not mean this as a slap to the face but rather a move to secure the future of the publisher you love so much. Let me ask you, how many other independent publishers have come and gone? They all, like us and like every other publisher today (including the big two), struggle with the same problem - how to get more comics on stands. The reason this is such a issue is because, in order to manage cash flows, stores order books to sell out on the day of release. This means any potential new fans that don't pre-order a book or come by their store after the first day won't have a chance to try a new book. We need to get more copies on shelves to create new fans so that we can continue to grow. But, to help our loyal readers, we've built Legends of the Geomancer to tie into Book of Death, which is 100% returnable and deeply discounted. This means the book is not as crazy to get as you think. Talk to your local store about pre-ordering it. If you have any trouble do email us at inquries@valiantentertainment.com and we'll call the store. We'll explain the discount and returnability but we'll also teach them how to make even more Valiant fans.

So they point people to the email, and answer when?

Since they misspelled "inquiries", maybe never.

[erwinrafael]

Well, the thread has gone on long enough that I guess the positions people have taken are pretty much set. For me, despite really wanting to read this FVL story on the Geomancers, I won't get it based on how VEI plans to distribute it. It's too costly for me, not with a family to raise and with the luxury status of comic books here in the Philippines. Yes, it is my choice, but I am quite frustrated that my choice is constrained by the way VEI designed the access for this book. So there. No more posting on this thread for me.

[ilzuccone]

When is this being released ?

[Ricomortis]

Why EXACTLY is this not going to work?









I kid...I kid.....

[jmatt]

I do like that one idea... Offer it later as a second printing... After the initial promotion is over so other fans can afford it and it doesn't effect it's rarity or purpose. (Lotg)

My LCS said they probably wouldn't want to buy into the whole returnability thing, but maybe we can make a deal.

[Paul Nolan]

How Valiant Comics Lost a Dedicated Fan…
https://comicspectrumblog.wordpress.com ... ost-a-fan/



so he's reading (and I assume enjoying) a majority of Valiant titles, he can't get one mini-series at the price point he wants so he's out on all Valiant titles...

Seriously...

they lost Bob? wow.....

he's this man for anyone interested... http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/20 ... ollection/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[leonmallett]

So they point people to the email, and answer when?

Again, try just emailing a brief question about what to do if you're an international customer.

Leave out criticisms of the promotion itself, because there's nothing YOU are going to do to change it now, and there's no comment they'll have for you that's going to change your mind.

Otherwise, you are no doubt prioritized WAY down the list, as there's no immediate action item for them to tend to.

"CAN YOU HELP INTERNATIONAL FANS GET THESE BOOKS THROUGH THEIR PREFERRED CHANNELS?"

Hit send.

Donovan - at this point, it seems that I work to engage VEI, but they do not reciprocate. Not exactly encouraging me to try again.

By your advice, they may as well as caveat their contact email page with something like "Please keep all emails to 140 characters or less. Y'now, because."

Sorry for the sarcasm, but they say email, I email. I can do so again, but not loving the idea of jumping through hoops that are of VEI's creation just because hey, I would like to read a comic book roughly when it comes out.

I personally know many peeps ( some I have met at shows) that have emailed VEI no problem.
Infact I'd say that one of the things VEI is known for is accessibility with the fans.

Also. VEI is not stopping you from reading this book.

Well interestingly I have have had a PM here, but no email.

As for the last comment; don't assume distribution works the same everywhere, please.

However distribution works anywhere, VEI is not stopping you from reading the book.
Their job is to make the book, it will be made, therefore it can be read.
Any stopping is controlled by the consumer.
Even if only 10 total copies were made, that means the consumer has 10 chances to get it.
I will acknowledge that there appears to be a different effort to read it, but they are not stopping anyone from reading it.
That is my point.

I accept your point that they are not purposefully stopping anyone, but you do therefore accept that through distribution and therefore markets operating differently, effectively DOES create a a difference in access or a two-class system for customers: those in North America, and those outwith North America whose costs as a consumer may be higher due to shipping books internationally not available locally. So you have one class of customer, with one level of access, and one that is potentially disenfranchised by additional costs.

If the business model pushes the book to $20, and if say shipping in USA is $5 then the cost is $25. If I am buying from the USA to the UK, because of local scarcity or even non-availability, and shipping is $19, then the book 'costs' me $39. In such an example, I am disadvantaged and disenfranchised geographically in such a situation. Are VEI stopping me choosing to pay more for the same thing? No. Are they charging me more? No, but they potentially have created the circumstances where that is the case, and where there is a discrepancy in cost between one set of fans (North America) and another (Rest of the World).

Does that seem fair or equitable? If you feel so, then there is nothing left to debate. If you agree it isn't, then whoever has created this sales model must bear responsibility for how their decision affects some of their consumers.

And why do I couch my comment with the word potentially? Because VEI don't seem to have fully worked out the distribution issue yet, so this has gone ahead without consequences fully covered.

[Elveen]

Well, the difference in cost is the cost for the book, correct?

As shipping for the book would be the same regardless of the book. Right?

[leonmallett]

Well, the difference in cost is the cost for the book, correct?

As shipping for the book would be the same regardless of the book. Right?

Except I don't have to order/ship regular books internationally; I can pick them up at my LCS. Yes they cost more in the UK, (even with my store discount, at today's conversion rate I pay $4.38), but not $19 or whatever extra, even if buying according to the same market forces that apply to this.

*If* the distribution model does not support equal access, for example how returns policy and costs function if that differs from Diamond USA, then by the very choice of doing this VEI have created a situation where there is a difference in cost to acquire the book, and therefore by extension of their choice have marginalised some readers/customers.

All I am trying to do is communicate that the USA model does not transplant equally globally, something VEI acknowledge themselves, and therefore that causes an impact on some of us.

[drmirage]

Hi David, thanks for reaching out. Let me assure you we do not mean this as a slap to the face but rather a move to secure the future of the publisher you love so much. Let me ask you, how many other independent publishers have come and gone? They all, like us and like every other publisher today (including the big two), struggle with the same problem - how to get more comics on stands. The reason this is such a issue is because, in order to manage cash flows, stores order books to sell out on the day of release. This means any potential new fans that don't pre-order a book or come by their store after the first day won't have a chance to try a new book. We need to get more copies on shelves to create new fans so that we can continue to grow. But, to help our loyal readers, we've built Legends of the Geomancer to tie into Book of Death, which is 100% returnable and deeply discounted. This means the book is not as crazy to get as you think. Talk to your local store about pre-ordering it. If you have any trouble do email us at inquries@valiantentertainment.com and we'll call the store. We'll explain the discount and returnability but we'll also teach them how to make even more Valiant fans.

So they point people to the email, and answer when?

Since they misspelled "inquiries", maybe never.