Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer

[turbod16]

I love reading all whining in this thread , it's *SQUEE* hilarious.

Maybe I am missing something that you see ( ), but I honestly think there is very little whining in the thread. I think there is heated discussion, and certainly opposing views reflecting something more than a binary take on things, but whining? That seems a little insulting.

It's whining.

Really?

Yes

In what sense? Every post? Every post that differs in opinion from yours?

Grown adults , complaining about a comic they can't afford to own is whining to me.

[leonmallett]

Maybe I am missing something that you see ( ), but I honestly think there is very little whining in the thread. I think there is heated discussion, and certainly opposing views reflecting something more than a binary take on things, but whining? That seems a little insulting.

It's whining.

Really?

Yes

In what sense? Every post? Every post that differs in opinion from yours?

Grown adults , complaining about a comic they can't afford to own is whining to me.

So you have no objection to folk commenting on concerns re: availability/accessibility?

[Tim]

Maybe I am missing something that you see ( ), but I honestly think there is very little whining in the thread. I think there is heated discussion, and certainly opposing views reflecting something more than a binary take on things, but whining? That seems a little insulting.

It's whining.

Really?

Yes

In what sense? Every post? Every post that differs in opinion from yours?

Grown adults , complaining about a comic they can't afford to own is whining to me.

This is an argument of principle and I pity that you're unable to see that. There's no one on this thread who can't afford a $20 comic book and to insinuate so is a gross oversimplification of the conversation.

[turbod16]

It's whining.

Really?

Yes

In what sense? Every post? Every post that differs in opinion from yours?

Grown adults , complaining about a comic they can't afford to own is whining to me.

This is an argument of principle and I pity that you're unable to see that. There's no one on this thread who can't afford a $20 comic book and to insinuate so is a gross oversimplification of the conversation.

Nope .... It really is that simple. Sorry.

[Tim]

Really?

Yes

In what sense? Every post? Every post that differs in opinion from yours?

Grown adults , complaining about a comic they can't afford to own is whining to me.

This is an argument of principle and I pity that you're unable to see that. There's no one on this thread who can't afford a $20 comic book and to insinuate so is a gross oversimplification of the conversation.

Nope .... It really is that simple. Sorry.

(can someone please unban ZephyrWasHot!!!! so he can take over here...he had a stamina for this kind of thing that I just haven't got anymore)

[tiredofmyself]

I think now the problem comes down to the ratio being set too high.

Isn't the main deflection Valiant was using that your store can return Book of Death?

But in reality, even DCBS don't want to order too many BOD for LOTG.

So the excuse used by Valiant earlier when questioned became useless if too many *readers* want to buy LOTG.

[Donovan]

I think the fact that it's being argued on principle is one I can't get behind.

This is a marketing/business decision, and I think it should be given every chance to fail or succeed on it's own merits. In a business that isn't pharmaceuticals or anything serioius, let the market decide what principles the players employ.

I appreciate and respect that Valiant is willing to take a risk to grow their business. There's a problem with stores not even considering putting Valiant on their shelves. From what I understand, this is an attempt to rectify that. They won't gain readers by rinsing and repeating what was done yesterday. This is a dying and dwindling industry. The number of issues sold slowly declines every month.

If anyone else has some 'principled' ideas to increase orders that haven't been tried yet, I'm sure Atom and staff will take your call. In the meantime, they just got an influx of cash, and I'm betting that those investors want to see some results. So they need to think outside the box in order to grow their market share.

The only way I think this initiative could have been improved is by making it available based on line-wide Valiant books ordered. So that you're getting stores to order more of every title on the shelves instead of just Book of Death.

[jeremycoe]

Really?

Yes

In what sense? Every post? Every post that differs in opinion from yours?

Grown adults , complaining about a comic they can't afford to own is whining to me.

This is an argument of principle and I pity that you're unable to see that. There's no one on this thread who can't afford a $20 comic book and to insinuate so is a gross oversimplification of the conversation.

Nope .... It really is that simple. Sorry.

There has been a lot of constructive disagreement - as well as a lot of whining. I don't think there has been much whine about being able to afford it, although there has been some complaint by people that they won't be able to. The statement that no one on this thread can't afford it IS false.

The fact is the decision has been made. This series will only be published as an incentive. Saying that if VEI doesn't change this then you'll stop buying anything they produce is pretty much whining. Saying you think it's bad business is discussion.

[Paul Nolan]

Nope .... It really is that simple. Sorry.

no, this is a question about some people being excluded from getting comic they want.

The fact is the decision has been made. This series will only be published as an incentive. Saying that if VEI doesn't change this then you'll stop buying anything they produce is pretty much whining. Saying you think it's bad business is discussion.

thats actually stating a position, not whining.

[Donovan]

Saying that if VEI doesn't change this then you'll stop buying anything they produce is pretty much whining.

I've not done a scientific study, but on most message boards I belong to you get people who threaten to walk away from everything they buy. Yet mysteriously, the next month, they are aware of what's going on and by their comments have obviously kept up with the series.

It's just chest-beating gorilla-posturing.

[jeremycoe]

Nope .... It really is that simple. Sorry.

no, this is a question about some people being excluded from getting comic they want.

NO ONE is excluded. If you can't afford it it isn't the same as being excluded. If a kid has only $1 and goes into a comic shop he isn't exluded from buying a $4 book, he just can't afford it.

[tiredofmyself]

There is also a tweet asking them that ordering online costs around 30 instead of "regular" price, and the reply from valiant is that you can find normal price in other stores. But now that deflection proved useless too since all stores are selling the book as variant.

It's my understanding that the early supportive argument is that LOTG is not like variants. Now the board is arguing this is variant and quit whining.

[leonmallett]

Yes

In what sense? Every post? Every post that differs in opinion from yours?

Grown adults , complaining about a comic they can't afford to own is whining to me.

This is an argument of principle and I pity that you're unable to see that. There's no one on this thread who can't afford a $20 comic book and to insinuate so is a gross oversimplification of the conversation.

Nope .... It really is that simple. Sorry.

(can someone please unban ZephyrWasHot!!!! so he can take over here...he had a stamina for this kind of thing that I just haven't got anymore)

[Donovan]

no, this is a question about some people being excluded from getting comic they want.

In the format they want. At a price level they want.

No one is technically being excluded. You're opting out.

[agent_graves]

All opinions are welcomed, and valid. I just wish there was this much discussion, on the actual content of the books upon release, nowhere near this much traffic over there.

[leonmallett]

Nope .... It really is that simple. Sorry.

no, this is a question about some people being excluded from getting comic they want.

NO ONE is excluded. If you can't afford it it isn't the same as being excluded. If a kid has only $1 and goes into a comic shop he isn't exluded from buying a $4 book, he just can't afford it.

Access isn't just based on price, but willingness to order sufficient copies of BoD to qualify for levels of LotG by desired bys store's customers; limited access = limited availability = by extension, some will be excluded by default.

[Brapbrap]

no, this is a question about some people being excluded from getting comic they want.

In the format they want. At a price level they want.

No one is technically being excluded. You're opting out.

either way it is a stupid idea to make it hard for me to buy a product that i want to buy

[jeremycoe]

Nope .... It really is that simple. Sorry.

no, this is a question about some people being excluded from getting comic they want.

NO ONE is excluded. If you can't afford it it isn't the same as being excluded. If a kid has only $1 and goes into a comic shop he isn't exluded from buying a $4 book, he just can't afford it.

Access isn't just based on price, but willingness to order sufficient copies of BoD to qualify for levels of LotG by desired bys store's customers; limited access = limited availability = by extension, some will be excluded by default.

NO ONE is excluded. Even if your LCS won't receive any it doesn't mean you are excluded. You are still able to order one. Even if that is cost-prohibitive you aren't exlcuded.

[leonmallett]

Nope .... It really is that simple. Sorry.

no, this is a question about some people being excluded from getting comic they want.

NO ONE is excluded. If you can't afford it it isn't the same as being excluded. If a kid has only $1 and goes into a comic shop he isn't exluded from buying a $4 book, he just can't afford it.

Access isn't just based on price, but willingness to order sufficient copies of BoD to qualify for levels of LotG by desired bys store's customers; limited access = limited availability = by extension, some will be excluded by default.

NO ONE is excluded. Even if your LCS won't receive any it doesn't mean you are excluded. You are still able to order one. Even if that is cost-prohibitive you aren't exlcuded.

Really? A book VEI themselves have cited as 'rare'? Rare is the definition of scarce, and scare means that 'some' will by default be excluded. VEI have set out to make this 'rare' They have scored themselves the win of dialogue. they have also probably scored very high orders on a book that might have otherwise seen fewer copies ordered. But the moment demand outstrips supply, and VEI seem to be engineering that through the ratio and the fact they have a set aim to make it rare, then by extension some are excluded.

As a UK fan, I could not obtain a copy of Rai Plus 1. Pretty rare on these shores in my experience. I was excluded unfortunately by the seeming way it was distributed. The point is, that access will not be totally equal, therefore there is exclusion on a local level.

[Donovan]

Really? A book VEI themselves have cited as 'rare'?

Valiant promoting this book as 'rare' in a solicit is about as honest as Billy Mays describing Oxy Clean as "amazing". That doesn't mean it'll be as easy to find as a Tim Hortons in Calgary, but they're obviously pumping it up a bit...

[jeremycoe]

Nope .... It really is that simple. Sorry.

no, this is a question about some people being excluded from getting comic they want.

NO ONE is excluded. If you can't afford it it isn't the same as being excluded. If a kid has only $1 and goes into a comic shop he isn't exluded from buying a $4 book, he just can't afford it.

Access isn't just based on price, but willingness to order sufficient copies of BoD to qualify for levels of LotG by desired bys store's customers; limited access = limited availability = by extension, some will be excluded by default.

NO ONE is excluded. Even if your LCS won't receive any it doesn't mean you are excluded. You are still able to order one. Even if that is cost-prohibitive you aren't exlcuded.

Really? A book VEI themselves have cited as 'rare'? Rare is the definition of scarce, and scare means that 'some' will by default be excluded. VEI have set out to make this 'rare' They have scored themselves the win of dialogue. they have also probably scored very high orders on a book that might have otherwise seen fewer copies ordered. But the moment demand outstrips supply, and VEI seem to be engineering that through the ratio and the fact they have a set aim to make it rare, then by extension some are excluded.

As a UK fan, I could not obtain a copy of Rai Plus 1. Pretty rare on these shores in my experience. I was excluded unfortunately by the seeming way it was distributed. The point is, that access will not be totally equal, therefore there is exclusion on a local level.

At this point in time anyone can order it. I don't doubt you might have a hard (probably next to impossible) time finding it if you just go to the stores on release day asking for it. Same with Rai 1 PLUS edition. The fact that at this time anyone can order it means no one is excluded.

[geocarr]

"Their" is a catch. If I want to buy X-O Manowar #40, then I say to my LCS, "Hey, order me a copy of X-O Manowar #40, please" and he does that, and I can purchase it from him on the day of release. I don't have to make him order 25 copies of Timewalker #7. That's a hoop to jump through just to order a title published by a company. It's ridiculous.

So, you think if VEI started having one book every month that cost $20 or more to obtain would be a good idea? (With or without hoop jumping)

Whether it is ridiculous or not is a matter of perspective and irrelevant. There is a high statistical probability that you can do exactly what you said you would do with X-O Manowar #40 for LOTG. The LCS sets the price for everything they sell. When you walk in and ask him to order X-O Manowar #40, you and the LCS agree on a price and the LCS orders the book and you buy it at the agreed upon price. You can do the same thing with your LCS and LOTG or with DCBS. Assuming the LCS wants your money (otherwise why is he in business), and you both agree on a price, the LCS will do whatever it entails to order the book for you. What you can't do is set the price yourself.

[Tim]

Assuming the LCS wants your money (otherwise why is he in business)...

I thought people owned comic book stores for nerd cred and so they could sit in judgement of their customers' bad taste in comics and promote their own superior taste and knowledge. That's always been my experience.

[geocarr]

Nope .... It really is that simple. Sorry.

no, this is a question about some people being excluded from getting comic they want.

NO ONE is excluded. If you can't afford it it isn't the same as being excluded. If a kid has only $1 and goes into a comic shop he isn't exluded from buying a $4 book, he just can't afford it.

Access isn't just based on price, but willingness to order sufficient copies of BoD to qualify for levels of LotG by desired bys store's customers; limited access = limited availability = by extension, some will be excluded by default.

You're making an assumption (speculation) at this point that demand will exceed supply for LOTG without accounting for the variation of individuals' price point limits and the amount of interested readers who are willing to wait to see if it reprinted later in some format.
You're a speculator!

[geocarr]

Assuming the LCS wants your money (otherwise why is he in business)...

I thought people owned comic book stores for nerd cred and so they could sit in judgement of their customers' bad taste in comics and promote their own superior taste and knowledge. That's always been my experience.

Yes, yes you're right..........................and to make money.