Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer

[kjjohanson]

I am shocked Godwin's Law hasn't played out yet since we are at 15 pages of what has become a very circular conversation although Communism has been brought up so it shouldn't be long now.

I am more surprised, considering that we're discussing a Fred Van Lente Valiant book, and the specifics of the promotion, that no one has mentioned Mammon yet.

[Phoenix8008]

Wow, just finished catching up on this thread (over the last few days). I wasn't terribly happy about this promotion to start with, but I'm also not committing hari kari over it or quitting Valiant comics. I stopped by my LCS on the way home today (I know, the gall of me having a store nearby me that sells comics is offensive to some. I've done my time without access to a store for years, so there.), and I went in expecting to try and talk my LCS guy into ordering enough for me to get these books. I gave him the spiel, told him 'returnable', etc. He smiled and said he had already ordered enough to get at least my one copy of each. And my store is in a pretty small town, and he only sells a few of each Valiant book a month, but I'm lucky enough that he's willing to order enough for my purposes. Don't know exactly what the price will be on it, but we'll see when the time comes.

I understand those doing digital can't get it digitally, and that others may have to decide if they can afford or want to order these from online to get the whole story. But if it helps the company grow and get stronger, then that's good, right? And if it doesn't than some can scream 'Told you so!' Other than for people that only like something when it's a fringe/outsider thing. It is what it is. As long as I can afford it later, I've got my copies reserved and I'll read and enjoy them. If I couldn't get them, I'd sulk some and maybe order them later, but it's not the end of the world either way folks. Nothing to lose sleep over.

[Hasmot]

So I just pre-ordered this through Midtown Comics...

Thank you.

Just pre-ordered 4 copies.

Glad I was able to offer some intel. I was torn at first.... but it's VALIANT and I have discovered them to be completely awesome, so I don't mind throwing money at them every now and then.

[Bl00dsh0t]

My LCS said they would order 25 (up from their usual 10 for Valiant #1's), however, the LEGENDS book would set me back $97.50 as I would have to buy 15 copies of BOOK OF DEATH at $6.50ea (the cost of comics in Australia).

I would love to have this comic but will not pay nearly $100 for 24pgs. I was hoping my LCS would let me pay an at-cost price for additional orders for LEGENDS and then return what they didn't sell.

[paradise]

My LCS said they would order 25 (up from their usual 10 for Valiant #1's), however, the LEGENDS book would set me back $97.50 as I would have to buy 15 copies of BOOK OF DEATH at $6.50ea (the cost of comics in Australia).

I would love to have this comic but will not pay nearly $100 for 24pgs. I was hoping my LCS would let me pay an at-cost price for additional orders for LEGENDS and then return what they didn't sell.

That is so short sided, makes me cringe

[erwinrafael]

My LCS said they would order 25 (up from their usual 10 for Valiant #1's), however, the LEGENDS book would set me back $97.50 as I would have to buy 15 copies of BOOK OF DEATH at $6.50ea (the cost of comics in Australia).

I would love to have this comic but will not pay nearly $100 for 24pgs. I was hoping my LCS would let me pay an at-cost price for additional orders for LEGENDS and then return what they didn't sell.

That is so short sided, makes me cringe

That is how it is in the international market, because returnable does not really mean much. And also, the comic-book-store-going public is so small, and mostly Marvel and DC die-hards, that putting a physical copy of Book of Death on the shelf will not really mean much.

[Bl00dsh0t]

My LCS said they would order 25 (up from their usual 10 for Valiant #1's), however, the LEGENDS book would set me back $97.50 as I would have to buy 15 copies of BOOK OF DEATH at $6.50ea (the cost of comics in Australia).

I would love to have this comic but will not pay nearly $100 for 24pgs. I was hoping my LCS would let me pay an at-cost price for additional orders for LEGENDS and then return what they didn't sell.

That is so short sided, makes me cringe

I don't think my LCS push many Valiant comics. Most of their sales come from the big 2. That said, I've been buying Valiant since Bloodshot #1 (2012) and subsequently pretty much every title since. Shame they wont try to at least reduce the cost to something more reasonable. May have to switch to a different LCS... (though options are limited in Australia).

[paradise]

My LCS said they would order 25 (up from their usual 10 for Valiant #1's), however, the LEGENDS book would set me back $97.50 as I would have to buy 15 copies of BOOK OF DEATH at $6.50ea (the cost of comics in Australia).

I would love to have this comic but will not pay nearly $100 for 24pgs. I was hoping my LCS would let me pay an at-cost price for additional orders for LEGENDS and then return what they didn't sell.

That is so short sided, makes me cringe

I don't think my LCS push many Valiant comics. Most of their sales come from the big 2. That said, I've been buying Valiant since Bloodshot #1 (2012) and subsequently pretty much every title since. Shame they wont try to at least reduce the cost to something more reasonable. May have to switch to a different LCS... (though options are limited in Australia).

There is at least one person on this site who prefers us to his Australian lfs.

[drmirage]

I believe you are referring to Peter B.

My LCS said they would order 25 (up from their usual 10 for Valiant #1's), however, the LEGENDS book would set me back $97.50 as I would have to buy 15 copies of BOOK OF DEATH at $6.50ea (the cost of comics in Australia).

I would love to have this comic but will not pay nearly $100 for 24pgs. I was hoping my LCS would let me pay an at-cost price for additional orders for LEGENDS and then return what they didn't sell.

That is so short sided, makes me cringe

I don't think my LCS push many Valiant comics. Most of their sales come from the big 2. That said, I've been buying Valiant since Bloodshot #1 (2012) and subsequently pretty much every title since. Shame they wont try to at least reduce the cost to something more reasonable. May have to switch to a different LCS... (though options are limited in Australia).

There is at least one person on this site who prefers us to his Australian lfs.

[cray_ws]

I'm not sure what communism has to do with prices of production. Wasn't it something contributed to capitalism by commies?

in reply to this comment:

No day old comic is worth 1000% of it's production cost.

In our society there is competition, so it's not cost of goods but law of supply and demand that govern prices.
In a true communist society (i come from socialist russia, so there is some real life experience) there is no competition so prices are based on COG.

Okay...perhaps "worth" isn't the right word. You wanna pay $35 for new comic, by all means exercise your capitalist rights and do so. The general public however capitalist they may be, are not going to agree with that price. Are they communist? Of course not. You ask most capitalist put a monetary value or "worth" of a brand new comic book, you're not going get anywhere near $35, especially when you tell them it's a 1000% mark up with no guarantee of increased resale value.

[cray_ws]

My LCS said they would order 25 (up from their usual 10 for Valiant #1's), however, the LEGENDS book would set me back $97.50 as I would have to buy 15 copies of BOOK OF DEATH at $6.50ea (the cost of comics in Australia).

I would love to have this comic but will not pay nearly $100 for 24pgs. I was hoping my LCS would let me pay an at-cost price for additional orders for LEGENDS and then return what they didn't sell.

That is so short sided, makes me cringe

That's standard LCS logic, even in American market for some shops. Yet you don't seem to have a problem because you're already selling enough Valiant where you probably would sell everything before even bothering with any returnables. Just out of curiosity, have you sent returnables before? How many books and what title was it?

[Peter]

I believe you are referring to Peter B.

My LCS said they would order 25 (up from their usual 10 for Valiant #1's), however, the LEGENDS book would set me back $97.50 as I would have to buy 15 copies of BOOK OF DEATH at $6.50ea (the cost of comics in Australia).

I would love to have this comic but will not pay nearly $100 for 24pgs. I was hoping my LCS would let me pay an at-cost price for additional orders for LEGENDS and then return what they didn't sell.

That is so short sided, makes me cringe

I don't think my LCS push many Valiant comics. Most of their sales come from the big 2. That said, I've been buying Valiant since Bloodshot #1 (2012) and subsequently pretty much every title since. Shame they wont try to at least reduce the cost to something more reasonable. May have to switch to a different LCS... (though options are limited in Australia).

There is at least one person on this site who prefers us to his Australian lfs.

Yes that would be me I just would rather be assured of getting the variants and all my monthlies in excellent condition and Ed really has gone above and beyond for me over the past couple of years. It has been getting harder of late with our Australian/US dollar exchange rate, but with Ed's promos and his strong commitment to Valiant, at least you are assured of getting the books and in good quality . Thank you Ed.

This book does look very nice and I hope to be able to take Ed up on his promo for this book as well.

'Bl00dsh0t', I feel your pain regards prices over here. Drop Ed a line, he may be able to assist, I hope my message to you was of some help also.

I have been very slack and have not been in the loop much of late, and am so far behind (2 months) in my reading, a problem I hope to remedy very soon.

[Phoenix8008]

I'm not sure what communism has to do with prices of production. Wasn't it something contributed to capitalism by commies?

in reply to this comment:

No day old comic is worth 1000% of it's production cost.

In our society there is competition, so it's not cost of goods but law of supply and demand that govern prices.
In a true communist society (i come from socialist russia, so there is some real life experience) there is no competition so prices are based on COG.

Okay...perhaps "worth" isn't the right word. You wanna pay $35 for new comic, by all means exercise your capitalist rights and do so. The general public however capitalist they may be, are not going to agree with that price. Are they communist? Of course not. You ask most capitalist put a monetary value or "worth" of a brand new comic book, you're not going get anywhere near $35, especially when you tell them it's a 1000% mark up with no guarantee of increased resale value.

If you asked the majority of the population how much they thought a modern day comic book was worth in general, they would probably say less than the $4 cover price. But if you ask actual comic book buyers (readers, collectors, speculators, whatever), many of them will agree that due to rarity some variant covers or other things like this are worth $10, $20, or even $50 (like for the ungraded Valiant Gold books). They have that value because that is how much people are buying and selling them for in shops, on ebay, and at conventions. Not everyone cares whether there is any resale value or not. I don't. I collect comics for the stories. It's an expense, not an investment. If chasing the dollars related to comics is what somebody likes, I wish them luck and hope that they're at least enjoying the stories as well, but I think most are in it for the stories primarily.

[blujay]

A capitalism v communism debate? This thread must've jumped the shark pages ago

[erwinrafael]

I'm not sure what communism has to do with prices of production. Wasn't it something contributed to capitalism by commies?

in reply to this comment:

No day old comic is worth 1000% of it's production cost.

In our society there is competition, so it's not cost of goods but law of supply and demand that govern prices.
In a true communist society (i come from socialist russia, so there is some real life experience) there is no competition so prices are based on COG.

Okay...perhaps "worth" isn't the right word. You wanna pay $35 for new comic, by all means exercise your capitalist rights and do so. The general public however capitalist they may be, are not going to agree with that price. Are they communist? Of course not. You ask most capitalist put a monetary value or "worth" of a brand new comic book, you're not going get anywhere near $35, especially when you tell them it's a 1000% mark up with no guarantee of increased resale value.

If you asked the majority of the population how much they thought a modern day comic book was worth in general, they would probably say less than the $4 cover price. But if you ask actual comic book buyers (readers, collectors, speculators, whatever), many of them will agree that due to rarity some variant covers or other things like this are worth $10, $20, or even $50 (like for the ungraded Valiant Gold books). They have that value because that is how much people are buying and selling them for in shops, on ebay, and at conventions. Not everyone cares whether there is any resale value or not. I don't. I collect comics for the stories. It's an expense, not an investment. If chasing the dollars related to comics is what somebody likes, I wish them luck and hope that they're at least enjoying the stories as well, but I think most are in it for the stories primarily.

Readers don't care for variants because if one cares only about the story, then getting a different pricier versiom for the same story does not make sense.

Good for you if you really find $35 for 24 pages of story really worth it without thinking of it as an invrstment. I don't. I guess I am not in VEI's target market for this scheme. I wish they just did it on a Kindt book, not an FVL one, so that I won't care. LOL!

[BugsySig]

So let me get this straight: digital DRM free comics are communist

[jeremycoe]

So let me get this straight: digital DRM free comics are communist

In communist Russia, comics read you.

[Tim]

I wish they just did it on a Kindt book, not an FVL one, so that I won't care. LOL!

(I admit I'm coming to enjoy him more or at least admit to myself I am...Unity and Ninjak have been very good. I was just SO disappointed in The Valiant and not crazy about Rai that I think it made a little bit of a hater out of me.)

[lorddunlow]

So let me get this straight: digital DRM free comics are communist

Most definitely. They actually border on fascist. They're definitely nihilistic.

[ilzuccone]

are we still going on about this?

[kjjohanson]

are we still going on about this?

You know you're on the internet, right?

[agent_graves]

Readers don't care for variants because if one cares only about the story, then getting a different pricier versiom for the same story does not make sense.

It does if you love variants.

[ilzuccone]

are we still going on about this?

You know you're on the internet, right?

does my mom know!?

[cray_ws]

If you asked the majority of the population how much they thought a modern day comic book was worth in general, they would probably say less than the $4 cover price. But if you ask actual comic book buyers (readers, collectors, speculators, whatever), many of them will agree that due to rarity some variant covers or other things like this are worth $10, $20, or even $50 (like for the ungraded Valiant Gold books). They have that value because that is how much people are buying and selling them for in shops, on ebay, and at conventions. Not everyone cares whether there is any resale value or not. I don't. I collect comics for the stories. It's an expense, not an investment. If chasing the dollars related to comics is what somebody likes, I wish them luck and hope that they're at least enjoying the stories as well, but I think most are in it for the stories primarily.

Which begs the question....how is Valiant going grow when it's targeting a niche within a niche? Also a publisher deciding to print less amount to manufacture rarity isn't the same thing as 40 year old books that are no longer in print or have multiple editions. Only in this niche market have we allowed gullible tactics to continue. Variants and this book are ploys and few people are happily gobbling it up. There's nothing rare about this book Valiant is releasing, they could print more but have decided on short-term gains while deferring the risk to LCS.

[Shadowman99]

If you asked the majority of the population how much they thought a modern day comic book was worth in general, they would probably say less than the $4 cover price. But if you ask actual comic book buyers (readers, collectors, speculators, whatever), many of them will agree that due to rarity some variant covers or other things like this are worth $10, $20, or even $50 (like for the ungraded Valiant Gold books). They have that value because that is how much people are buying and selling them for in shops, on ebay, and at conventions. Not everyone cares whether there is any resale value or not. I don't. I collect comics for the stories. It's an expense, not an investment. If chasing the dollars related to comics is what somebody likes, I wish them luck and hope that they're at least enjoying the stories as well, but I think most are in it for the stories primarily.

Which begs the question....how is Valiant going grow when it's targeting a niche within a niche? Also a publisher deciding to print less amount to manufacture rarity isn't the same thing as 40 year old books that are no longer in print or have multiple editions. Only in this niche market have we allowed gullible tactics to continue. Variants and this book are ploys and few people are happily gobbling it up. There's nothing rare about this book Valiant is releasing, they could print more but have decided on short-term gains while deferring the risk to LCS.

I think you're failing to see the bigger picture a bit there

But then again, I do agree that comics published in low quantities these days will never compare in 'worth' to old golden age comics and such, but they might still accrue a certain 'value' years in the future from now, albeit less than that of aforementioned GA comics. No telling at this point in time anyway.

The book certainly isn't rare at this point in time I agree, but in reality this is penalising 'readers' who only want to read the story: the only people who can stand to benefit from buying this comic are speculators who'll carefully put the comics away without reading them and then sell them on for a profit in years to come, provided the things increase in value of course.