Book of Death: Legends of the Geomancer

jeremycoe · Post by **jeremycoe** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:51 pm

kjjohanson wrote:
jeremycoe wrote:
tiredofmyself wrote: Wait, there are new comics from Marvel that do not have digital version?
And there are digital comics that are not collected in TPB later? (Less sure of this because of the general quality of those random digital comics they may not collect some because it won't sell anyway).
Yes.
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/52174/ma ... axy_2015_3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/51456/av ... dra_2015_1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tiredofmyself wrote: To stay on topic, the main problem I have is not that they are trying to coerce customers to help them get more penetration. The main problem is they are effectively blocking TPB and digital readers. Why is that necessary for the main scheme to work?
No one is being "blocked". Anyone can buy this. Just because it's not catered specifically to you doesn't mean you can't buy it.

I know there are many who don't care for this decision VEI has made, and that's fine, but I don't think whining about it is going to change things at this point. If you don't like it don't buy the issue. Vote with your wallet.
Voicing one's opinion may affect decisions as to whether try a similar promotion in the future.

True, however I think whether or not they meet their objectives will have a bigger affect then our opinions.

lorddunlow · Post by **lorddunlow** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:46 pm

jeremycoe wrote:
kjjohanson wrote:
jeremycoe wrote:
tiredofmyself wrote: Wait, there are new comics from Marvel that do not have digital version?
And there are digital comics that are not collected in TPB later? (Less sure of this because of the general quality of those random digital comics they may not collect some because it won't sell anyway).
Yes.
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/52174/ma ... axy_2015_3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/51456/av ... dra_2015_1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tiredofmyself wrote: To stay on topic, the main problem I have is not that they are trying to coerce customers to help them get more penetration. The main problem is they are effectively blocking TPB and digital readers. Why is that necessary for the main scheme to work?
No one is being "blocked". Anyone can buy this. Just because it's not catered specifically to you doesn't mean you can't buy it.

I know there are many who don't care for this decision VEI has made, and that's fine, but I don't think whining about it is going to change things at this point. If you don't like it don't buy the issue. Vote with your wallet.
Voicing one's opinion may affect decisions as to whether try a similar promotion in the future.
True, however I think whether or not they meet their objectives will have a bigger affect then our opinions.

Yup. Which is why I have very mixed feelings on this. I sorta want the initiative to fail for selfish reasons.

tiredofmyself · Post by **tiredofmyself** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:58 pm

jeremycoe wrote:
tiredofmyself wrote: Wait, there are new comics from Marvel that do not have digital version?
And there are digital comics that are not collected in TPB later? (Less sure of this because of the general quality of those random digital comics they may not collect some because it won't sell anyway).
Yes.
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/52174/ma ... axy_2015_3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/51456/av ... dra_2015_1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tiredofmyself wrote: To stay on topic, the main problem I have is not that they are trying to coerce customers to help them get more penetration. The main problem is they are effectively blocking TPB and digital readers. Why is that necessary for the main scheme to work?
No one is being "blocked". Anyone can buy this. Just because it's not catered specifically to you doesn't mean you can't buy it.

I know there are many who don't care for this decision VEI has made, and that's fine, but I don't think whining about it is going to change things at this point. If you don't like it don't buy the issue. Vote with your wallet.

Cool, the animation tie-in book is indeed print exclusive, but the Avengers book (is it a movie tie-in) is not: https://www.comixology.com/Avengers-Ope ... GRpdGlvbnM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Of course I'm "blocked" in a sense as I don't have a house to store the comics and I can't foster a relationship with LCS because there is no such concept of "L" for me. And I must say voting with wallet is usually useless, and extremely useless in this case: should I vote by not buying high-priced copies of LOtG through other means (like Midtown Comics price), or should I vote by not buying Book of Death which is what Valiant is trying to sell right?

I'll admit that I'm one confused individual though because at some point the whole thing just looks like a job instead of hobbies/entertainment.

BT · Post by BT » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:34 pm

I'd like to know what kind of deal Ed is able to put together for us. After that I'll judge if it's worth my money.

At this point, it is what it is.

nycjadie · Post by **nycjadie** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:49 pm

I'll go on a limb and predict this will be a marginal success. It will be a great book, with great art, and will be highly coveted by fans and collectors. It will be relatively affordable, and will increase in value over the short term, much like Harbinger Pink. It will not be as collectible or as coveted as Harbinger Pink, because it does not include marquee characters or come from a marquee title. All of the aforesaid will go out the window of there are movie implications.

Joshua · Post by **Joshua** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:53 pm

I just pre-ordered a bunch of these from TFAW. Will see what I get.

jeremycoe · Post by **jeremycoe** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:05 pm

tiredofmyself wrote:
jeremycoe wrote:
tiredofmyself wrote: Wait, there are new comics from Marvel that do not have digital version?
And there are digital comics that are not collected in TPB later? (Less sure of this because of the general quality of those random digital comics they may not collect some because it won't sell anyway).
Yes.
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/52174/ma ... axy_2015_3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/51456/av ... dra_2015_1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tiredofmyself wrote: To stay on topic, the main problem I have is not that they are trying to coerce customers to help them get more penetration. The main problem is they are effectively blocking TPB and digital readers. Why is that necessary for the main scheme to work?
No one is being "blocked". Anyone can buy this. Just because it's not catered specifically to you doesn't mean you can't buy it.

I know there are many who don't care for this decision VEI has made, and that's fine, but I don't think whining about it is going to change things at this point. If you don't like it don't buy the issue. Vote with your wallet.
Cool, the animation tie-in book is indeed print exclusive, but the Avengers book (is it a movie tie-in) is not: https://www.comixology.com/Avengers-Ope ... GRpdGlvbnM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Of course I'm "blocked" in a sense as I don't have a house to store the comics and I can't foster a relationship with LCS because there is no such concept of "L" for me. And I must say voting with wallet is usually useless, and extremely useless in this case: should I vote by not buying high-priced copies of LOtG through other means (like Midtown Comics price), or should I vote by not buying Book of Death which is what Valiant is trying to sell right?

I'll admit that I'm one confused individual though because at some point the whole thing just looks like a job instead of hobbies/entertainment.

If you want it, you will have the opportunity to buy it. Period. Whether it makes fiscal sense for you is for you to decide. From what has been said, Valiant is trying to bring in new readers - not sell more copies of one specific book. They want books on the shelf so someone has the opportunity to discover something new.

Even if you're living in your car, I would have a hard time believing you can't make room for 4 comic books.

iwantvaliant · Post by **iwantvaliant** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:18 pm

jeremycoe wrote:
tiredofmyself wrote:
jeremycoe wrote:
tiredofmyself wrote: Wait, there are new comics from Marvel that do not have digital version?
And there are digital comics that are not collected in TPB later? (Less sure of this because of the general quality of those random digital comics they may not collect some because it won't sell anyway).
Yes.
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/52174/ma ... axy_2015_3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://marvel.com/comics/issue/51456/av ... dra_2015_1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tiredofmyself wrote: To stay on topic, the main problem I have is not that they are trying to coerce customers to help them get more penetration. The main problem is they are effectively blocking TPB and digital readers. Why is that necessary for the main scheme to work?
No one is being "blocked". Anyone can buy this. Just because it's not catered specifically to you doesn't mean you can't buy it.

I know there are many who don't care for this decision VEI has made, and that's fine, but I don't think whining about it is going to change things at this point. If you don't like it don't buy the issue. Vote with your wallet.
Cool, the animation tie-in book is indeed print exclusive, but the Avengers book (is it a movie tie-in) is not: https://www.comixology.com/Avengers-Ope ... GRpdGlvbnM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Of course I'm "blocked" in a sense as I don't have a house to store the comics and I can't foster a relationship with LCS because there is no such concept of "L" for me. And I must say voting with wallet is usually useless, and extremely useless in this case: should I vote by not buying high-priced copies of LOtG through other means (like Midtown Comics price), or should I vote by not buying Book of Death which is what Valiant is trying to sell right?

I'll admit that I'm one confused individual though because at some point the whole thing just looks like a job instead of hobbies/entertainment.
If you want it, you will have the opportunity to buy it. Period. Whether it makes fiscal sense for you is for you to decide. From what has been said, Valiant is trying to bring in new readers - not sell more copies of one specific book. They want books on the shelf so someone has the opportunity to discover something new.

Even if you're living in your car, I would have a hard time believing you can't make room for 4 comic books.

Making a book rare isn't going to bring in new readers. Neither is 'trying' to convince shop owners to put it on the shelves using incentives.

You want new readers? Make issue #1 of Book of Death $1. Unity #0 was free and it helped to bring in a ton of readers.

I would agree with an argument that this incentive is designed to get people excited about collecting (which is very important to the industry) and it's also designed to get people into comic shops (which is also very important because this industry lacks a mainstream distribution process like supermarkets etc.).

Eternalwarrior68 · Post by **Eternalwarrior68** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:41 pm

I am excited to read this book, plus my LCS said they would order it and spread the word to all their Valiant pull list subscribers.

cray_ws · Post by **cray_ws** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:54 pm

iwantvaliant wrote:Making a book rare isn't going to bring in new readers. Neither is 'trying' to convince shop owners to put it on the shelves using incentives.

You want new readers? Make issue #1 of Book of Death $1. Unity #0 was free and it helped to bring in a ton of readers.

I would agree with an argument that this incentive is designed to get people excited about collecting (which is very important to the industry) and it's also designed to get people into comic shops (which is also very important because this industry lacks a mainstream distribution process like supermarkets etc.).

I would argue that collectorism is the cause of a lot of shady business. Everything from grading day old books to variant covers has done nothing for increasing the market share. Collectorism is extremely short-sighted market. There's a small window of opportunity to make money, but nowhere the amount where it can foster growth. Collectors come and go, but readers are what keeps this industry afloat. We need more readers, not schemers and patsies.

No day old comic is worth 1000% of it's production cost.

lorddunlow · Post by **lorddunlow** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:37 pm

cray_ws wrote: No day old comic is worth 1000% of it's production cost.

It's worth whatever one person is willing to pay for it and another is willing to sell for.

lorddunlow · Post by **lorddunlow** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:42 pm

I've officially changed my opinion. If cray_ws is so opposed to it, it must be a good idea.

Sorry about whining, everybody.

Ricomortis · Post by **Ricomortis** » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:14 pm

lorddunlow wrote:I've officially changed my opinion. If cray_ws is so opposed to it, it must be a good idea.

Sorry about whining, everybody.

Dr Noel · Post by **Dr Noel** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:03 am

lorddunlow wrote:I've officially changed my opinion. If cray_ws is so opposed to it, it must be a good idea.

Sorry about whining, everybody.

Quite the sudden turnaround.

tiredofmyself · Post by **tiredofmyself** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:31 am

lorddunlow wrote:I've officially changed my opinion. If cray_ws is so opposed to it, it must be a good idea.

Sorry about whining, everybody.

Duh, it's pretty clear cray_ws is secretly all for this promotion, and already started to pull in his network of contacts in Sect to hoard the books, so he can sell each $30+ later.

paradise · Post by **paradise** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:35 am

cray_ws wrote:I would argue that collectorism is the cause of a lot of shady business. Everything from grading day old books to variant covers has done nothing for increasing the market share. Collectorism is extremely short-sighted market. There's a small window of opportunity to make money, but nowhere the amount where it can foster growth. Collectors come and go, but readers are what keeps this industry afloat. We need more readers, not schemers and patsies.
No day old comic is worth 1000% of it's production cost.

A. That is some idealistic *SQUEE*
B. What does a comic's worth have to do with production cost? This is not communism, buddy

ilzuccone · Post by **ilzuccone** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:12 pm

lorddunlow wrote:I've officially changed my opinion. If cray_ws is so opposed to it, it must be a good idea.

Sorry about whining, everybody.

low blow.

geocarr · Post by **geocarr** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:52 pm

I am shocked Godwin's Law hasn't played out yet since we are at 15 pages of what has become a very circular conversation although Communism has been brought up so it shouldn't be long now.

Chiclo · Post by **Chiclo** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:57 pm

geocarr wrote:I am shocked Godwin's Law hasn't played out yet since we are at 15 pages of what has become a very circular conversation although Communism has been brought up so it shouldn't be long now.

You fasciist!

geocarr · Post by **geocarr** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:22 pm

Chiclo wrote:
geocarr wrote:I am shocked Godwin's Law hasn't played out yet since we are at 15 pages of what has become a very circular conversation although Communism has been brought up so it shouldn't be long now.
You fasciist!

You bet!! Wait, what's a fascist? Did I lose an i or did you add one? Dan, get out of that other thread and get over here and spellcheck this!

tiredofmyself · Post by **tiredofmyself** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:28 pm

geocarr wrote:I am shocked Godwin's Law hasn't played out yet since we are at 15 pages of what has become a very circular conversation although Communism has been brought up so it shouldn't be long now.

I'm not sure what communism has to do with prices of production. Wasn't it something contributed to capitalism by commies?

As far as I know, if we practice communism, Valiant can put out whatever comics they want, and there will be enough prints so we'll all get free issues if we want to read it.

Actually I'm not sure if collectors can exist in communism society. Since private properties will be abolished, all the comic books belong to all of us as public properties.

geocarr · Post by **geocarr** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:27 pm

tiredofmyself wrote:
geocarr wrote:I am shocked Godwin's Law hasn't played out yet since we are at 15 pages of what has become a very circular conversation although Communism has been brought up so it shouldn't be long now.
I'm not sure what communism has to do with prices of production.

Absolutely nothing. I was making a sarcastic joke. But thanks for playing anyway.

depluto · Post by **depluto** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:32 pm

Chiclo wrote:
geocarr wrote:I am shocked Godwin's Law hasn't played out yet since we are at 15 pages of what has become a very circular conversation although Communism has been brought up so it shouldn't be long now.
You fasciist!

I think this promotion is Goering to be a big Hit(ler) ... I just do Nazi any problems. Anybody who doesn't like it, the problem probably lies with Him(mler). This book will be the tip of the Speer going forward for Valiant.

paradise · Post by **paradise** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:36 pm

tiredofmyself wrote: I'm not sure what communism has to do with prices of production. Wasn't it something contributed to capitalism by commies?

in reply to this comment:

No day old comic is worth 1000% of it's production cost.

In our society there is competition, so it's not cost of goods but law of supply and demand that govern prices.
In a true communist society (i come from socialist russia, so there is some real life experience) there is no competition so prices are based on COG.

geocarr · Post by **geocarr** » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:45 pm

depluto wrote:
Chiclo wrote:
geocarr wrote:I am shocked Godwin's Law hasn't played out yet since we are at 15 pages of what has become a very circular conversation although Communism has been brought up so it shouldn't be long now.
You fasciist!
I think this promotion is Goering to be a big Hit(ler) ... I just do Nazi any problems. Anybody who doesn't like it, the problem probably lies with Him(mler). This book will be the tip of the Speer going forward for Valiant.

YES!! depluto for the win!!

You rock brother!!

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