New Thread: book of legends

[Michael_Ayer]

I called my LCS (I mostly buy online) and they are adding the book of legends to the books I order. It helped knowing that book of death is returnable. Talk to the owners!

[Donovan]

Same.

This does not have to be a big deal.

[Paul Nolan]

it should be a huge deal.

I buy my comics from a mail order outlet that have no shop front. They have no outlet for an extra 25 copies of Book of Death. They will have no want for the added inward distribution costs that Previews UK charges.

I don't care for variant covers but I have bought every single STORY that Valiant have put out in issue format, since X-O #1. Why should I be excluded?

This is the most counter intuitive business decision I think I have ever seen.

[Michael_Ayer]

Tweet Dinesh. I bet you can get hooked up!

[Keith]

Tweet Dinesh. I bet you can get hooked up!

Seriously! Valiant has made it clear that they want to contact retailers hesitant about this. You should tweet or email them.

[JonesyAZ]

I have also contacted my LCS to have them add this book to my pull-list. I'll follow-up letting everyone know how the overall experience will be upon the release of book one

[paradise]

it should be a huge deal.

I buy my comics from a mail order outlet that have no shop front. They have no outlet for an extra 25 copies of Book of Death.
.
.
.
This is the most counter intuitive business decision I think I have ever seen.

OK, to your first point, it costs them nothing except the cost to ship them back to diamond. And they are ALWAYS shipping stuff back to Diamond, so it's not much additional cost. You do understand the idea of $20 for 25 books, all of them returnable, right? So if you say, I will buy this book for $10 and the regular for $4, that is a total cost of $6 to them, which they can return for almost $20 back, making $16 on you and the rest back on Diamond.

THERE IS NOT A SHOP IN THE WORLD WHO SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE THIS WORK. IT'S THAT STUPID.

As to your second count, you are 10000% wrong. Here is why. For years now, Valiant and other publishers have tried to use variants to lower retailer's risk (cost) of ordering their books. But retailers are still stupid. I know some numbers that would blow your mind. A huge chunk of retailers pay more for the books by not qualifying for additional discounts publishers offer. Marvel and Valiant have both discounted #1 issues to 80% off, which makes it cheaper for a retailer to order 50 copies than it is to order 20 copies (by not qualifying for the order). And yet, the numbers don't lie, most retailers are too stupid to do basic math and make the right decision.

What Valiant is doing with this, is forcing you, the FAN, to go to the local retailer and explain to them the deal, because Atom has called every store and they are still a bunch of DUMB #$##s and don't listen. And that's a brilliant move that nobody else has had the balls to do. If a customer comes to me and says, " I want to order book X, I know you don't get it, but if you order it for free, and returnable, and there is an incentive I will give you $X for, will you do it?" If I say no, I don't deserve to be in this business. We are not retail stores, most of us rely on subscriptions and regular repeat customers. This makes us a service industry. We provide a service, and should listen to our customers.

Now, that does not mean that it will cost you $4. THat is UNREALISTIC. But you can negotiate BEFORE the retailer places their order and get a good deal, at no risk to them.

(I am so tired of explaining why this is an amazing thing for all involved)

[paradise]

Tweet Dinesh. I bet you can get hooked up!

I really don't know what you mean by this. Dinesh is taking a stand on making this go through retailers. Why would he "hook people up" with anything?

Guys, everyone needs to be realistic here.

[Keith]

Tweet Dinesh. I bet you can get hooked up!

I really don't know what you mean by this. Dinesh is taking a stand on making this go through retailers. Why would he "hook people up" with anything?

Guys, everyone needs to be realistic here.

Since I responded in agreement with the post you're talking about, Ed, I'll respond to yours as well.

From what I saw on Twitter, Valiant was receiving tweets from people complaining that their stores wouldn't order. Valiant was asking for the stores info so they could contact the store directly. So that's what I meant in my agreement... reach out to Valiant so they would hopefully follow up with the store, not give the complaining person a copy of LotG.

[Keith]

it should be a huge deal.

I buy my comics from a mail order outlet that have no shop front. They have no outlet for an extra 25 copies of Book of Death.
.
.
.
This is the most counter intuitive business decision I think I have ever seen.

OK, to your first point, it costs them nothing except the cost to ship them back to diamond. And they are ALWAYS shipping stuff back to Diamond, so it's not much additional cost. You do understand the idea of $20 for 25 books, all of them returnable, right? So if you say, I will buy this book for $10 and the regular for $4, that is a total cost of $6 to them, which they can return for almost $20 back, making $16 on you and the rest back on Diamond.

THERE IS NOT A SHOP IN THE WORLD WHO SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE THIS WORK. IT'S THAT STUPID.

As to your second count, you are 10000% wrong. Here is why. For years now, Valiant and other publishers have tried to use variants to lower retailer's risk (cost) of ordering their books. But retailers are still stupid. I know some numbers that would blow your mind. A huge chunk of retailers pay more for the books by not qualifying for additional discounts publishers offer. Marvel and Valiant have both discounted #1 issues to 80% off, which makes it cheaper for a retailer to order 50 copies than it is to order 20 copies (by not qualifying for the order). And yet, the numbers don't lie, most retailers are too stupid to do basic math and make the right decision.

What Valiant is doing with this, is forcing you, the FAN, to go to the local retailer and explain to them the deal, because Atom has called every store and they are still a bunch of DUMB #$##s and don't listen. And that's a brilliant move that nobody else has had the balls to do. If a customer comes to me and says, " I want to order book X, I know you don't get it, but if you order it for free, and returnable, and there is an incentive I will give you $X for, will you do it?" If I say no, I don't deserve to be in this business. We are not retail stores, most of us rely on subscriptions and regular repeat customers. This makes us a service industry. We provide a service, and should listen to our customers.

Now, that does not mean that it will cost you $4. THat is UNREALISTIC. But you can negotiate BEFORE the retailer places their order and get a good deal, at no risk to them.

(I am so tired of explaining why this is an amazing thing for all involved)

Slam dunk, there, Ed. Great stuff. I am going to copy this post over on the CBR boards as well.

[tchalla8]

And if your LCS refuses to comply if with a direct call from Dinesh himself? What then? I understand what Dinesh and VEI are trying to do here, but you know there are going to be some VEI customers that get left out. It's going to be inevitable. Hopefully they'll release it in trade form later on.

[paradise]

Slam dunk, there, Ed. Great stuff. I am going to copy this post over on the CBR boards as well.

PM'ed you, please don't repost until you see my pm

[paradise]

And if your LCS refuses to comply if with a direct call from Dinesh himself? What then? I understand what Dinesh and VEI are trying to do here, but you know there are going to be some VEI customers that get left out. It's going to be inevitable. Hopefully they'll release it in trade form later on.

LOL, that's the WHOLE point of this exercise. Dinesh and Atom have been calling for years, every store to try to get them to carry VEI books. That has not worked as well as it should have, OBVIOUSLY since they came up with this new deal, which pretty much begs YOU to go talk to the shop.

Any shop can be stupid enough to ignore the Publisher, but when a customer comes in and tells them that they can't lose and here is my money, they have to listen.

Again, THAT'S THE POINT

[Keith]

Slam dunk, there, Ed. Great stuff. I am going to copy this post over on the CBR boards as well.

PM'ed you, please don't repost until you see my pm

Got your PM!

[tchalla8]

And if your LCS refuses to comply if with a direct call from Dinesh himself? What then? I understand what Dinesh and VEI are trying to do here, but you know there are going to be some VEI customers that get left out. It's going to be inevitable. Hopefully they'll release it in trade form later on.

LOL, that's the WHOLE point of this exercise. Dinesh and Atom have been calling for years, every store to try to get them to carry VEI books. That has not worked as well as it should have, OBVIOUSLY since they came up with this new deal, which pretty much begs YOU to go talk to the shop.

Any shop can be stupid enough to ignore the Publisher, but when a customer comes in and tells them that they can't lose and here is my money, they have to listen.

Again, THAT'S THE POINT

Right, I know that's the point. And it could work. I'm not trying to be contrary here. I'm just saying there's more than just one way to look at this. It still feels odd. Almost like we the customer have to go the extra mile just to earn the right to spend our money on Valiant product. Takes extra leg work on our part on top of giving them our money...just so we can access to a story we'd like to read.

Can you at least agree there's a downside to this for some?

[Tim]

Almost like we the customer have to go the extra mile just to earn the right to spend our money on Valiant product. Takes extra leg work on our part on top of giving them our money...just so we can access to a story we'd like to read.

I love promoting Valiant, but I do think there's a culture of that that goes on here. Valiant is a professional comic book / intellectual property company, massively backed by investors. They're not some Kickstarter that your cousin is running. Do we really need to be spamming comments sections, spamming Amazon reviews, and doing all the things that some folks do to promote the company, when they have people on payroll to do that? Not knocking anyone who does that at all, but does stuff like that really help? Is it in any way our responsibility. I don't see anyone going out of their way to promote Firefox or Pepsi.

But on that same note, counting on fans to do PR work seems to be working for Valiant, so I gotta agree with Ed that this seems pretty brilliant. Definitely never seen it done before. Hope it works!!

[Paul Nolan]

it should be a huge deal.

I buy my comics from a mail order outlet that have no shop front. They have no outlet for an extra 25 copies of Book of Death.
.
.
.
This is the most counter intuitive business decision I think I have ever seen.

THERE IS NOT A SHOP IN THE WORLD WHO SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE THIS WORK. IT'S THAT STUPID.

You're right there probably isn't a shop that will make this work, but to reiterate in your overly bolded way.

I buy my comics from a mail order outlet that has no shop front

without a shop front, what does my comic source do with the comics no one else has ordered. yet cost him Diamond UK's charge for couriering them to him every Tuesday, and then the cost of sending them back to Diamond UK?

[Joshua]

Ed, you rule, and when youu have deals and packages, I am buying. I know a couple of shop owners here in Utah and they'd never let us comic fans know anything about how much this costs or anything like that. I like knowing.

[jeremycoe]

it should be a huge deal.

I buy my comics from a mail order outlet that have no shop front. They have no outlet for an extra 25 copies of Book of Death.
.
.
.
This is the most counter intuitive business decision I think I have ever seen.

THERE IS NOT A SHOP IN THE WORLD WHO SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE THIS WORK. IT'S THAT STUPID.

You're right there probably isn't a shop that will make this work, but to reiterate in your overly bolded way.

I buy my comics from a mail order outlet that has no shop front

without a shop front, what does my comic source do with the comics no one else has ordered. yet cost him Diamond UK's charge for couriering them to him every Tuesday, and then the cost of sending them back to Diamond UK?

Have you asked your shop about it? Or are you just assuming they won't help out a customer?

[tchalla8]

And if your LCS refuses to comply if with a direct call from Dinesh himself? What then? I understand what Dinesh and VEI are trying to do here, but you know there are going to be some VEI customers that get left out. It's going to be inevitable. Hopefully they'll release it in trade form later on.

LOL, that's the WHOLE point of this exercise. Dinesh and Atom have been calling for years, every store to try to get them to carry VEI books. That has not worked as well as it should have, OBVIOUSLY since they came up with this new deal, which pretty much begs YOU to go talk to the shop.

Any shop can be stupid enough to ignore the Publisher, but when a customer comes in and tells them that they can't lose and here is my money, they have to listen.

Again, THAT'S THE POINT

Right, I know that's the point. And it could work. I'm not trying to be contrary here. I'm just saying there's more than just one way to look at this. It still feels odd. Almost like we the customer have to go the extra mile just to earn the right to spend our money on Valiant product. Takes extra leg work on our part on top of giving them our money...just so we can access to a story we'd like to read.

Can you at least agree there's a downside to this for some?

I mean think about it....they just created a story that you can't buy at cover price in any way. I've never heard of any publisher doing that in this day and age.

[jeremycoe]

And if your LCS refuses to comply if with a direct call from Dinesh himself? What then? I understand what Dinesh and VEI are trying to do here, but you know there are going to be some VEI customers that get left out. It's going to be inevitable. Hopefully they'll release it in trade form later on.

LOL, that's the WHOLE point of this exercise. Dinesh and Atom have been calling for years, every store to try to get them to carry VEI books. That has not worked as well as it should have, OBVIOUSLY since they came up with this new deal, which pretty much begs YOU to go talk to the shop.

Any shop can be stupid enough to ignore the Publisher, but when a customer comes in and tells them that they can't lose and here is my money, they have to listen.

Again, THAT'S THE POINT

Right, I know that's the point. And it could work. I'm not trying to be contrary here. I'm just saying there's more than just one way to look at this. It still feels odd. Almost like we the customer have to go the extra mile just to earn the right to spend our money on Valiant product. Takes extra leg work on our part on top of giving them our money...just so we can access to a story we'd like to read.

Can you at least agree there's a downside to this for some?

I mean think about it....they just created a story that you can't buy at cover price in any way. I've never heard of any publisher doing that in this day and age.

I'd bet some people will get it for cover price.

[Tim]

I'd bet some people will get it for cover price.

I'm counting on getting it in a quarter bin at a con!

[Paul Nolan]

it should be a huge deal.

I buy my comics from a mail order outlet that have no shop front. They have no outlet for an extra 25 copies of Book of Death.
.
.
.
This is the most counter intuitive business decision I think I have ever seen.

THERE IS NOT A SHOP IN THE WORLD WHO SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE THIS WORK. IT'S THAT STUPID.

You're right there probably isn't a shop that will make this work, but to reiterate in your overly bolded way.

I buy my comics from a mail order outlet that has no shop front

without a shop front, what does my comic source do with the comics no one else has ordered. yet cost him Diamond UK's charge for couriering them to him every Tuesday, and then the cost of sending them back to Diamond UK?

Have you asked your shop about it? Or are you just assuming they won't help out a customer?

I am awaiting an official response, but as Diamond UK operate in weird and wonderful ways that are separate from Diamond (for example UK shops pay DC directly for DC comics, even though Diamond UK send them with the other comics) I understand the response is not immediate.

[paradise]

Almost like we the customer have to go the extra mile just to earn the right to spend our money on Valiant product. Takes extra leg work on our part on top of giving them our money...just so we can access to a story we'd like to read.

I love promoting Valiant, but I do think there's a culture of that that goes on here. Valiant is a professional comic book / intellectual property company, massively backed by investors. They're not some Kickstarter that your cousin is running. Do we really need to be spamming comments sections, spamming Amazon reviews, and doing all the things that some folks do to promote the company, when they have people on payroll to do that? Not knocking anyone who does that at all, but does stuff like that really help? Is it in any way our responsibility. I don't see anyone going out of their way to promote Firefox or Pepsi.

But on that same note, counting on fans to do PR work seems to be working for Valiant, so I gotta agree with Ed that this seems pretty brilliant. Definitely never seen it done before. Hope it works!!

To both of you, NO YOU DON"T HAVE TO. I hope that makes it easier for you

[paradise]

I mean think about it....they just created a story that you can't buy at cover price in any way. I've never heard of any publisher doing that in this day and age.

Sorry, this is not the first time exclusive content was created, nor the last. Digital only, one distributor only, barnes and noble only, this stuff keeps happening. I think it's a little entitled to think that everything MUST be created equal. Many people can't afford comics, others buy original art on regular basis, yet others buy an exotic car every month. Nobody has to provide equal opportunity to any product. Most do, and for the most part it works out, but once in a while there CAN be something that is limited on the market that not every customer can get. There is nothing wrong with it, specially if there is a good reason for it.

Sorry if I am blunt and I don't mean to be rude with this statement. I just enjoy capitalism and how it works. I grew up in the "everyone has the same boring crap" mentality of Russian socialism, and, trust me, you don't want that, or their medicine.