Ivar Comma Timewalker #4

[Dr. Solar]

Great issue, so much fun, yadda yadda yadda.

Am I the only one that reads this and infers that Neela, in her attempts to save her father, actually caused the four-car pile up that put him in the hospital?

[greg]

That's how I read it.

I also read it that she was always the one who caused the four-car pile up, not that her attempts to stop it made her the (substitute) cause instead of the original cause.
I'm seeing it as she was always the original cause.

[Dr. Solar]

That's how I read it.

I also read it that she was always the one who caused the four-car pile up, not that her attempts to stop it made her the (substitute) cause instead of the original cause.
I'm seeing it as she was always the original cause.

Me too.

Which creates a very strange relationship between cause and effect throughout time.

[Brapbrap]

liked the bit where she waited for her leg to heal and then went back to try again, would be interesting to see something like that in a fight.

[Dr. Solar]

Confirmed.

Yes. RT @baddeacon Am I to understand that Neela caused, and *always had caused* the 4-car pile up? #Timewalker #TimeTravel #Whoa

[greg]

"always had caused"

This reminds me of the Back to the Future argument on Big Bang Theory where they had to use the correct wording/grammar to discuss what had had to have happened.

[BugsySig]

Great issue, so much fun, yadda yadda yadda.

Am I the only one that reads this and infers that Neela, in her attempts to save her father, actually caused the four-car pile up that put him in the hospital?

If they are still following Stephen Hawking's theory of time travel, then the only thing you can do when traveling back in time is doing what you always (had have had) done.

[hunter_peterson]

Great issue, so much fun, yadda yadda yadda.

Am I the only one that reads this and infers that Neela, in her attempts to save her father, actually caused the four-car pile up that put him in the hospital?

If they are still following Stephen Hawking's theory of time travel, then the only thing you can do when traveling back in time is doing what you always (had have had) done.

Yep. Which makes perfect sense, because what happened to get you to the past has to have been unchanged for you to ever do it.

Which is likely what Ivar is hiding- he's from so far in the past that he can change history, but won't. Which would also explain why future Neela is so *SQUEE* off... he refuses to save her father.

[dornwolf]

Which is likely what Ivar is hiding- he's from so far in the past that he can change history, but won't. Which would also explain why future Neela is so *SQUEE* off... he refuses to save her father.

I kinda figured it was more because he was trapped in the Faraway. He can change the past because he was literally cut out of the time stream

[BugsySig]

Which is likely what Ivar is hiding- he's from so far in the past that he can change history, but won't. Which would also explain why future Neela is so *SQUEE* off... he refuses to save her father.

I kinda figured it was more because he was trapped in the Faraway. He can change the past because he was literally cut out of the time stream

Back in A&A Ivar said Aram couldn't change his past. What happened always has and always will happen. But, yes, Ivar was removed from the timeline and has yet to experience any of the future beyond his home time in Ur. So everything is Ivar's future.

[Savant]

Great issue, so much fun, yadda yadda yadda.

Am I the only one that reads this and infers that Neela, in her attempts to save her father, actually caused the four-car pile up that put him in the hospital?

If they are still following Stephen Hawking's theory of time travel, then the only thing you can do when traveling back in time is doing what you always (had have had) done.

Yep. Which makes perfect sense, because what happened to get you to the past has to have been unchanged for you to ever do it.

Which is likely what Ivar is hiding- he's from so far in the past that he can change history, but won't. Which would also explain why future Neela is so *SQUEE* off... he refuses to save her father.

I love it!

I'm somewhat surprised, but Ivar comma Timewalker is now one of my favorite titles. I was unsure of even bothering to try the comic out back when issue #1 was released. I would've truly missed out if I skipped this. Let's hope this comic, with FVL at the helm, lasts longer than A&A did.

[Bone-A-Fach-ee]

Thought this was the best issue of the week. Was a little iffy on the title, but this issue was outstanding I thought. I wish I could tie it all up like this! FVL is very underrated in my opinion. Loved all of A&A, and now this book is shaping up to be on par. I didn't even mind that Ivar was barely in this book!
Well done issue, a bit heartbreaking, but very intelligently written.

[DIrishB]

I've been eagerly awaiting an Ivar title since Valiant's relaunch (I love time travel stories), and I'm so glad the first several issues held up to my expectations and more.

[bygranddesign]

I loved the issue ... its a ton of fun

But these time travel stories always give me a paradoxical headache

I'm thinking there is a nice parallel happening in the story where Ivar feels as helpless as Neela trying to save her father.

Ivar is trying to intervene in Neela's life - Trying to prevent her from discovering time travel and going mad trying to figure out a way to save her Father -- and becoming the cyborg lady she becomes in the distant future.

But like Neela in this issue desperate to change what has happened to her Father BECOMES the actual CAUSE of what she was trying to prevent (the car accident that puts her father in the hospital) ... Ivar, unwittingly, causes the same thing to happen to Neela - he becomes the CAUSE of what he was TRYING to prevent.

So ... was there never a timeline in which Neela discovers Time travel on her own ... and she goes back and tries to save her father? Why would Ivar intervene in the first place unless that was the case?

Was there never a timeline in which her Father gets into an accident without Neela being the cause?

This is definitely a fun and fascinating read - I wish I could time arc into the future - waiting a month for the next issue is painful.

[bygranddesign]

Confirmed.

Yes. RT @baddeacon Am I to understand that Neela caused, and *always had caused* the 4-car pile up? #Timewalker #TimeTravel #Whoa

So then the same must be true about Ivar's intervention with Neela..?

Ivar must have always been the cause that allowed Neela to time travel into the past to try and save her father ... and led to Cyborg Neela

#Paradoxheadexplosion

[BugsySig]

Confirmed.

Yes. RT @baddeacon Am I to understand that Neela caused, and *always had caused* the 4-car pile up? #Timewalker #TimeTravel #Whoa

So then the same must be true about Ivar's intervention with Neela..?

Ivar must have always been the cause that allowed Neela to time travel into the past to try and save her father ... and led to Cyborg Neela

#Paradoxheadexplosion

Or...Ivar can change history, but when Neela abandoned him, she abandoned her only chance of changing history...

[DirtbagSailor]

http://valiantcentral.com/review-ivar-timewalker-4/

[jmatt]

Which is likely what Ivar is hiding- he's from so far in the past that he can change history, but won't. Which would also explain why future Neela is so *SQUEE* off... he refuses to save her father.

I like it.

Now think about this: If everything we've seen so far is unalterable by anyone then the only thing left that can be changed (from a story perspective) is what we haven't seen, namely, the future of Queen Neela and modern Neela on Oblivi-1.

But any future event is always some other time's past event, so whatever we see 'change' in future issues was pre-ordained to happen anyway. So I dunno.

I think the only way out of this box is a quantum event of some sort, which transcend the cause and effect of a purely Newtonian universe.

Anyway, great issue, I like comics that make me think.

[Aomalle27]

Wow; finally an arc thats more than 4 issues!!! Great read; different from previous chapters, not alot of action; but a hell of alot of exposition on time travel; causal effect; paradoxs etc. Loving how the issue ends; promising Armstrongs' return; and a epic battle for all time ( literally) The different Neelas was confusing ( how are multiple Neelas at the same place same time? Unless they are from multiple dimensions/ possible timelines. All heady stuff, but great.

[BugsySig]

Wow; finally an arc thats more than 4 issues!!! Great read; different from previous chapters, not alot of action; but a hell of alot of exposition on time travel; causal effect; paradoxs etc. Loving how the issue ends; promising Armstrongs' return; and a epic battle for all time ( literally) The different Neelas was confusing ( how are multiple Neelas at the same place same time? Unless they are from multiple dimensions/ possible timelines. All heady stuff, but great.

As I read it, these were all parallel Neelas who had given up at different points in their attempts to save their father.

Also, time arcs don't happen every second, so present time Neela may have had to wait around several times before catching another one and kept stopping in that Bar to wait.

Or maybe there is more to that Bar. Anyone remember the series finale of Quantum Leap?

[jmatt]

The different Neelas was confusing ( how are multiple Neelas at the same place same time? Unless they are from multiple dimensions/ possible timelines. All heady stuff, but great.

I'm trying to wrap my brain around how she can show up in the room with all the other Neelas and they declare "Yup, she's the first."

How can they all exist without the first Neela having showed up at some point prior? If time is kind of looping with her continually jumping back into a timeframe she's already visited, how can 7 of them be there before the first one ever does?

[erwinrafael]

I think this is quite easy. Every time she failed, she goes back to that bar to have a drink and to exchange notes with future selves to learn what mistakes she will make, and with her past selves so that she can warn them not make the same mistakes she made again. All the others arrived before the first because the first one had to sell her Nazi paraphernalia. The others after jumping through the timearc just went straight to the bar, so they recognize that the late one, the one who had to spend some time to sell her things, is the first one.

So all those Neelas are the same Neelas. All these Neelas gather at the bar because they believe in Back to the Future theory of time travel. The one talking to future Neela, the disillusioned one who realized that history can not be changed, is the latest (and the last) iteration.

[Brapbrap]

I think this is quite easy. Every time she failed, she goes back to that bar to have a drink and to exchange notes with future selves to learn what mistakes she will make, and with her past selves so that she can warn them not make the same mistakes she made again. All the others arrived before the first because the first one had to sell her Nazi paraphernalia. The others after jumping through the timearc just went straight to the bar, so they recognize that the late one, the one who had to spend some time to sell her things, is the first one.

So all those Neelas are the same Neelas. All these Neelas gather at the bar because they believe in Back to the Future theory of time travel. The one talking to future Neela, the disillusioned one who realized that history can not be changed, is the latest (and the last) iteration.

this, watch Neela's outfit change with each attempt to save her father, it's the same outfits as the different Neelas in the bar.

[BugsySig]

I think this is quite easy. Every time she failed, she goes back to that bar to have a drink and to exchange notes with future selves to learn what mistakes she will make, and with her past selves so that she can warn them not make the same mistakes she made again. All the others arrived before the first because the first one had to sell her Nazi paraphernalia. The others after jumping through the timearc just went straight to the bar, so they recognize that the late one, the one who had to spend some time to sell her things, is the first one.

So all those Neelas are the same Neelas. All these Neelas gather at the bar because they believe in Back to the Future theory of time travel. The one talking to future Neela, the disillusioned one who realized that history can not be changed, is the latest (and the last) iteration.

this, watch Neela's outfit change with each attempt to save her father, it's the same outfits as the different Neelas in the bar.

Yeah. Brilliantly written by FVL and portrayed by Henry. I think erwinrafael's explanation is similar to mine and explains it pretty well. When the original Neela is grabbed, it's because the other Neelas are looking for themselves in order to get information to try and help their future attempts.

[String]

Or maybe there is more to that Bar. Anyone remember the series finale of Quantum Leap?

Absolutely, good comparison but somehow I don't think that bartender is God.

Fantastic issue, so many details to keep track of, but they pull it off very well. I love that we see all the different Neelas from the bar in their respective actions in trying to change her father's fate. I forget the name for this type of paradox but to actually be the cause of her father's accident, that's a neat twist. And by always being the cause, she was always destined to invent time travel in the first place. Man, that's some trippy non-linear thinking there but that's just another reason why I'm loving this title right now.